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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 2 to 26 of 26. Go back in thread:
Posted by alexandra_k on February 20, 2005, at 13:23:39
In reply to Getting Older, my father, posted by Susan47 on February 20, 2005, at 12:27:26
Oh no Susan, see dentures are good. Nice and white and perfect. I sort of look foward to them.
:-)
Posted by Susan47 on February 21, 2005, at 12:35:12
In reply to Re: Getting Older, my father » Susan47, posted by alexandra_k on February 20, 2005, at 13:23:39
Oh gross, okay, that is not okay. That is just my feeling, but I think when they're not in, when there're no teeth there, your mouth the lips they kind of cave in, don't they? How depressing. Dentures never look real, either, do they? Do they make them now so they look more natural?
Posted by alexandra_k on February 21, 2005, at 15:24:00
In reply to Re: Getting Older, my father, posted by Susan47 on February 21, 2005, at 12:35:12
> but I think when they're not in, when there're no teeth there, your mouth the lips they kind of cave in, don't they?
Only when you take them out. So tell him he is NEVER to do that in front of you - okay?????
>Dentures never look real, either, do they? Do they make them now so they look more natural?
Sometimes they look fake because they look just too damn good to be real. But nah, they make em pretty good.
I say this because I knew a guy who got em when he was 27. His teeth were really really bad and when he was in jail for a year the government decided that it was cheaper to rip em out and give him dentures than to fix em up properly. The hardest time was when he just got them. They really do have to fit right. Make sure they get all the fragments of old tooth out. Sometimes he didn't wear them (we used to call him 'gummy') but he didn't look that bad. It takes a while for your gums to harden so that they are comfortable. Bit of a pain in the *ss. But nah, they look okay. Nice, perfect teeth.
Is it just that it is a sign that he is getting older Susan? Is that what is so hard?
Posted by Susan47 on February 21, 2005, at 16:49:35
In reply to Re: Getting Older, my father » Susan47, posted by alexandra_k on February 21, 2005, at 15:24:00
Older and frailer. Frailty freaks me out. I can't deal with it. My mother was always sick when I was a kid, well, she's was just always sick, period. I hated it. HATED HATED it.
Posted by alexandra_k on February 21, 2005, at 18:59:48
In reply to Re: Getting Older, my father, posted by Susan47 on February 21, 2005, at 16:49:35
Yeah. I noticed my question was a bit silly - given the name of the thread.
How is your fathers health?
Aside from the dentures ;-)
Posted by alexandra_k on February 21, 2005, at 19:00:58
In reply to Re: Getting Older, my father » Susan47, posted by alexandra_k on February 21, 2005, at 18:59:48
> Yeah. I noticed my question was a bit silly - given the name of the thread.
>
> How is your fathers health?
> Aside from the dentures ;-)Ha. And that last bit is silly too. You just told me he was frail (get with it Alex, sheesh).
My Father is getting doddery. Kind of a bit muddled. Takes him FOREVER to get organised and moving. I hate that too. Ugh.
Posted by Susan47 on February 21, 2005, at 19:54:24
In reply to Re: Getting Older, my father, posted by alexandra_k on February 21, 2005, at 19:00:58
No, my father isn't frail at all, I never thought of him that way and he doesn't act that way either. He still sails and tends his gardens. He's fine that way. Just this physical sign of frailty, I mean, you know, your gums breaking down to the point where you can't have teeth in them ... this sign of his body breaking down is hard to take.
Posted by alexandra_k on February 21, 2005, at 20:58:08
In reply to Re: Getting Older, my father » alexandra_k, posted by Susan47 on February 21, 2005, at 19:54:24
Ah.
But like I said I knew a fit and healthy 27 year old whose gums were shot to hell.
But are you worried that this is just the start???
Posted by Susan47 on February 22, 2005, at 0:09:30
In reply to Re: Getting Older, my father » Susan47, posted by alexandra_k on February 21, 2005, at 20:58:08
The start? The start of what? What? WHAT????
A downward decline towards death? That's been happening since our bodies matured, decades ago. No, I'm afraid it's the shifting of roles, yes, so I suppose I am afraid it's the start all right. The start of the role reversal. I won't do it well. I know it isn't what they want. Father in particular. Mother would do better. No, it's too early yet for that. It's the sign of fragility, the first hint that I might be the stronger one.
I've always been unreliable, I cannot be the stronger one. I refuse. I will not hold up someone who pulled me down so fiercely.
Posted by Toph on February 22, 2005, at 0:46:06
In reply to Re: Getting Older, my father, posted by Susan47 on February 22, 2005, at 0:09:30
Sorry to butt in here girls, but your dad's the Captain, susan, he'll always be the Captain. You just be a good little sailor. Sailors do all the work anyway, hon. You just let him keep giving the orders and all will be ship shape. Of course, you'll have to ignore some of the orders, but the Captain won't notice like when you were just a teenager trying to jump ship all the time. But now matey, I bet you'll be just a fine sailor when the Captain needs you to be.
Toph
Posted by Toph on February 22, 2005, at 9:26:14
In reply to Re: Getting Older, my father, posted by Susan47 on February 22, 2005, at 0:09:30
I hope you didn't take my analogy the wrong way. I was just trying to say that elder folks have trouble with role reversal too. They need to be empowered and made to feel like they are still in charge of their lives even as they become progrssively dependent. Independence and dignity are so important to all of us, but especially to people challenged with infirmity.
Posted by sunny10 on February 22, 2005, at 11:14:36
In reply to Re: Getting Older, my father » Susan47, posted by Toph on February 22, 2005, at 9:26:14
as a daughter who has been wronged by a father, I can understand what you mean--- it is asking a bit too much for them to rely on US to keep them up after they spent their whole lives knocking us down...
I feel for you, Suze, you know I do... for now, I have just decided that I will support my father's wishes, but not allow anyone to make me "responsible" for his happiness... that is way too much to ask. (He is of the same mindset as I about the right to die with dignity- it is certainly easier for me to "support his wishes"... not too much "work" on my end, now is it?!? And, yes, I do feel a little guilty that it is easier for me than it would feel if we were on opposite sides of this particular debate...)
But you just need to do what you've all told me to do- to decide what is right for you and only you, no matter whether other people view you as "selfish". Your opinion and feelings are just as important as everyone else's. Spend a little time figuring out what you are/ aren't willing to do for him if asked.
It's actually a good thing you are thinking along these lines before you are suddenly confronted with it!! You have time to think...
Posted by Toph on February 22, 2005, at 11:55:53
In reply to Re: Getting Older, my father, posted by sunny10 on February 22, 2005, at 11:14:36
> as a daughter who has been wronged by a father, I can understand what you mean--- it is asking a bit too much for them to rely on US to keep them up after they spent their whole lives knocking us down...
>
It does seem unfair to be placed in that position. Not everyone can put resentment aside. If a daughter under those circumstances cannot lend support she should feel no guilt. It is unlikely that her parent will even show any gratitude. It is a choice, not a duty. I can appreciate how difficult a choice it would be for you both. I hope I did not imply that it is something you must or should do for a parent.Toph
Posted by Susan47 on February 22, 2005, at 16:04:15
In reply to Re: Getting Older, my father » Susan47, posted by Toph on February 22, 2005, at 9:26:14
Absolutely, Toph, you're right on. My father is the kind of guy who will make you do everything for him and make you feel like, in the end, he did you a favour.
Posted by Susan47 on February 22, 2005, at 16:10:55
In reply to Re: Getting Older, my father, posted by sunny10 on February 22, 2005, at 11:14:36
Well, Sunny, I may well be in the same position as you one day, because my father has always felt very strongly in the right of every person to decide their fate for themselves. (That's hilarious, I think it's an ideal he has, more than the way he actually is.. but good for him, for having that ideal. It's a worthy one.)
One day he'll be wanting to die, and I'll be supporting him in that. I hope I don't feel guilty the way you do. Your guilt is wasted, Sunny, you know it has no bearing on reality, really. You just want dignity for your dad, and less pain and suffering. You know that's true, even though the little voice of your old buddy Guilt is trying to get more than a toehold in there.... ew, there must be a reason Sunny wants to get rid of her dad, heh heh. No way. That's the same negative voice that's caused you all this grief for this long.
So, was I just talking to myself? I think so.
Posted by Susan47 on February 22, 2005, at 16:12:24
In reply to Re: Getting Older, my father, posted by Toph on February 22, 2005, at 11:55:53
No, I don't think you implied that. You're just trying to understand.
Are your parents still alive Toph?
Posted by Toph on February 22, 2005, at 17:48:13
In reply to Re: Getting Older, my father » Toph, posted by Susan47 on February 22, 2005, at 16:12:24
Yes, thanks for asking. Too much info to tell now. My dad is 80 something and my mom is 75 something. I try not to remember their ages anymore cause it scares me to know. I will not allow myself to think about how soon approaches the inevitable day that one or both will be gone. I choke up thinking about the very sad fact that in 52 years of being alive while I know that they love me on some level I've never been really certain that they know me or that they ever wanted to. Sh*t.
Posted by Susan47 on February 22, 2005, at 18:49:51
In reply to Re: Getting Older, my father » Susan47, posted by Toph on February 22, 2005, at 17:48:13
Oh dear, I'm sorry, Toph. :(
Posted by sunny10 on February 23, 2005, at 10:07:39
In reply to Re: Getting Older, my father » sunny10, posted by Susan47 on February 22, 2005, at 16:10:55
no, I very clearly heard you talking to me- and everything you said is true...
It is so hard to NOT feel guilty that it is easy for me to support him because we hold the same views...I honestly don't think I could hold my integrity intact if we were opposed- and my integrity is very important to me.
That's why guilt is raising its ugly little head. Because I HAVEN'T hard to make a hard choice; I don't have the confidence that I would have made the same choice to support his wishes...
Am I as strong as I thought I had become? This makes me question myself more than I was ready to, I guess...
Posted by sunny10 on February 23, 2005, at 10:11:00
In reply to Re: Getting Older, my father » Susan47, posted by sunny10 on February 23, 2005, at 10:07:39
Please don't worry yourself about how I might have read your message.
You are not responsible for my happiness; I am.
You are not responsible for my perception of other people's messages; I am.You have said nothing that is not supportive and/or enlightening.
I am never opposed to hearing opposite or supportive points of view. Both types always have merit. It's all about how we process and use the information other provide to us.
I happen to adore your input.
Always!
Posted by Susan47 on February 23, 2005, at 10:37:41
In reply to Re: Getting Older, my father » Susan47, posted by sunny10 on February 23, 2005, at 10:07:39
I think you are as strong as you thought. Because you're always dealing with what you know, what you're experience is. You haven't had this experience, yet. And you're going to find out that you're even stronger than you were before this.
You did not make the choice to believe in quality of life and right to die because it would be easier to believe that, when the time came. You made the choice to believe that because it makes a lot of sense. That's the way you yourself would choose to go if the opportunity is there. If that's true, then you have nada to feel guilty about. Now I'll print this off and save it, because I have a feeling I might need this when the time comes for me and mine.
Posted by sunny10 on February 23, 2005, at 11:42:25
In reply to Re: Getting Older, my father, posted by Susan47 on February 23, 2005, at 10:37:41
better to remind yourself with your own words to others...
I really can't BELIEVE how mixed up I feel about this on the inside (stomache pains, insomnia, et cetera)when I KNOW that I am behaving in a logical manner....
Doesn't seem fair to be strong and do what I logically know to be right and still have my insides rebelling!!!!
ARRRRRGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!
Posted by Susan47 on February 23, 2005, at 12:26:34
In reply to Re: good idea » Susan47, posted by sunny10 on February 23, 2005, at 11:42:25
Why is it that the nicest people are always the ones who struggle the most with their guilt???? (((Sunny10)))
Posted by sunny10 on February 23, 2005, at 12:35:20
In reply to It's Not Fair, posted by Susan47 on February 23, 2005, at 12:26:34
be careful of compartmentalizing and generalizing. You do that too much to yourself sometimes as do I.
That's how we trip ourselves up. As humans, we also have a right to be wrong sometimes and that empowers us to make good on our mistakes and grow as individuals.
Another point about "nice"...My SO reminds me sometimes that trying to anticipate his needs, and then satisfying them, takes him out of the equation. He says that it makes him feel like I treat him as a puppy, not as a fellow human being. "Being nice" is not always received the way it is meant....
I am actually trying hard not to be "nice", but to learn to react appropriately. That's why the situation with my dad confounds me... I have been "let off the hook" in terms of practicing at reacting appropriately to others and their needs.
Posted by Toph on March 1, 2005, at 12:53:25
In reply to Re: Toph, posted by sunny10 on February 23, 2005, at 10:11:00
This is the end of the thread.
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