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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by crushedout on October 17, 2004, at 0:51:28
I thought my relationship was breaking up and now it's going better. It was really bad there for a while. But I'm not in love and I don't feel like I'll ever be. I think part of why I'm in this is that I long for stability, security, a home, being on a team with someone (it's so hard sometimes to struggle through this life mostly alone). And this guy seems like a good one to team up with. Mentally stable, supportive, smart, financially comfortable, competent.Oh g*d, I sound so bad saying all this. I can't even post this, can I?
Doesn't this sound all wrong? I don't love him. There's no magic. But he's been good for me, and I want the life we could have together. Do I have to get out? Is there a clear right answer?
I'm so confused.
Posted by alexandra_k on October 17, 2004, at 4:07:27
In reply to Is it really important to be in love?, posted by crushedout on October 17, 2004, at 0:51:28
I think that maybe 'being in love' might mean a couple of different things. There is love that needs time to build and arises out of friendship and trust, and there is the buzz of the old hormones. Sometimes the messages don't quite gel. I seem to have difficulty getting both at the same time, and I wonder sometimes whether the first might actually preclude the second, but then I hear that there are relationships where people have both.
I find that the buzz passes. A couple of months and its gone. But then it is hard to have a relationship with someone if none of those feelings are there.
Maybe you could try to think of something to get the buzz back into your relationship?
Or maybe this is a symptom showing you that it is time to move on as you need something more from a relationship?
I have no idea...
Posted by alexandra_k on October 17, 2004, at 4:12:15
In reply to Re: Is it really important to be in love? » crushedout, posted by alexandra_k on October 17, 2004, at 4:07:27
Sorry, just reread your post.
I stayed in a relationship for 4 years when I was not 'in love' with my partner. I stayed because my partner was like a parent to me. I had security: a house, car, pets, money - all the material things I thought I could want.
But although my partner was my best friend I wasn't in love. I felt so bad about the situation (once I realised that I wasn't in love) that I ended up in hospital (my first hospitalisation) with a major depressive episode. My partner gave up so very much to be with me and I was gutted, but I couldn't make myself feel something I did not.
I don't know what to say.
I know that the above is just my experience.
But if you know deep inside yourself that you do not love this person then you will only feel worse later if you try to keep up a pretense.
Posted by tampagirl70 on November 2, 2004, at 16:45:23
In reply to Re: Is it really important to be in love? » alexandra_k, posted by alexandra_k on October 17, 2004, at 4:12:15
alexandra k - how did you determine you weren't in love with this person? i obsess about love and torture myself with all kinds of questions about it. i know love is different for everyone, but was there one major thing that made you realize you weren't in love with him?
Posted by sunny10 on November 3, 2004, at 9:14:18
In reply to Re: Is it really important to be in love?, posted by tampagirl70 on November 2, 2004, at 16:45:23
yes, I think the real question is "what is love?"
I can't speak for you guys, but for me it is subjective because I KNOW I'm looking for stars in my eyes, rainbows, Prince Charming, et cetera... you know, the things that LOGICALLY do not exist. Most of the time, I can tell that if I AM feelings stars, rainbows, et cetera,it usually means that I am in one of my irrational phases and the relationship is PURELY "hormonal".
I am TRYING for the "relationship built of trust, respect, friendship, and fun" right now. So far, he is great with all of it except the trust part, which he withholds from me to protect himself. (and he thinks that if he hurts my feelings, I might try to kill myself again- he knows my past; I have no secrets)Right now, though, those secrets he keeps are triggering my fear of abandonment, who knows where the relationship will go, but at least this time we are trying "an adult- non-"hormone only" relationship...
I think that a lot of respect, trust, and friendship can work wonderfully with a copy of the Kama Sutra.....Then you get the hormone tweak, too !!
-sunny10
Posted by tampagirl70 on November 3, 2004, at 10:22:09
In reply to Re: Is it really important to be in love? » tampagirl70, posted by sunny10 on November 3, 2004, at 9:14:18
This is the first and only relationship I've been in longer than 6 months, so I'm not accustomed to the "hormonal" part wearing off and still being interested in the person. I have all of the things you mentioned with my husband -trust, respect, friendship and attraction. I just get worried to the point of obsession that I don't truly love him and I don't know how to find out for sure or prove that I do to myself. I get worried when I realize I haven't been very affectionate or I don't look at him and feel all mushy inside. All these things scare me and I've been through this thought process at least 5 times before. I think about all of this stuff all day long while I'm at work, then towards the end of the day I start to relax and my thoughts ease some. By the time I get home, I'm usually much calmer and feel relatively normal. I'll go to bed that night and wake up the next morning and start the cycle all over again. Its miserable.
> yes, I think the real question is "what is love?"
>
> I can't speak for you guys, but for me it is subjective because I KNOW I'm looking for stars in my eyes, rainbows, Prince Charming, et cetera... you know, the things that LOGICALLY do not exist. Most of the time, I can tell that if I AM feelings stars, rainbows, et cetera,it usually means that I am in one of my irrational phases and the relationship is PURELY "hormonal".
>
> I am TRYING for the "relationship built of trust, respect, friendship, and fun" right now. So far, he is great with all of it except the trust part, which he withholds from me to protect himself. (and he thinks that if he hurts my feelings, I might try to kill myself again- he knows my past; I have no secrets)Right now, though, those secrets he keeps are triggering my fear of abandonment, who knows where the relationship will go, but at least this time we are trying "an adult- non-"hormone only" relationship...
>
> I think that a lot of respect, trust, and friendship can work wonderfully with a copy of the Kama Sutra.....Then you get the hormone tweak, too !!
>
> -sunny10
Posted by sunny10 on November 3, 2004, at 12:16:01
In reply to Re: Is it really important to be in love?, posted by tampagirl70 on November 3, 2004, at 10:22:09
I am finding it interesting that you use the term "cycle", as in hmmmmm, aaha?
Do you see a T and a pdoc? Pdoc could help you figure out if the problem is really with obsessing as an illness and prescribe something that will help with this. The T could help you figure out why you're adding stress to your "near-perfect" relationship. You say that this is your first long-term relationship...
I can't "shrink" you, but let me just tell you what a couple of T's have told me about myself.
My low self-esteem (everything is always my fault) acts together with a fear of abandonment and I wind up completely obsessing that I'm somehow "messing up and if I don't get it together," I will lose my mate. (which I sometimes try to protect myself against by doing the "ending" myself one way or the other)
If that sounds anything like you, maybe your T can help.
A situation that you can isolate makes it a lot easier to deal with. Deal with it while it's still on a small scale, would be my advice- of course, take everything I say with a grain of salt- I'm on these boards for reasons just like you...
-sunny10
Posted by tampagirl70 on November 3, 2004, at 12:36:31
In reply to Re: Is it really important to be in love? » tampagirl70, posted by sunny10 on November 3, 2004, at 12:16:01
You asked if I see a pdoc or T. I see a pdoc and am taking Celexa and Wellbutrin for OCD and depression. I hadn't been seeing a T for several years and am currently trying to find one that I click with.
The only time these thoughts go through my head (most of the time) is when I'm obsessing. Its like a want a test to be able to tell me that I love him. I need some sort of scientific proof.
I believe love changes and goes through stages and ups and downs. What terrifies me is that I'll find out that I don't love him and then he'll get really mad at me and it'll be a big mess when it ends. I'm scared of not being able to make it on my own, although when I'm rational I don't have any doubts about it.
The more I think about this, the worse I feel. I look forward to the end of every day because once I get home, I feel better.
Posted by sunny10 on November 3, 2004, at 12:55:57
In reply to Re: Is it really important to be in love?, posted by tampagirl70 on November 3, 2004, at 12:36:31
----
Well, dear, sounds like you need to get yourself a new T, STAT !!! You know that there is no scientific proof of "love", sorry. You also know that there IS scientific proof of human arousal.
Wellbutrin is supposed to no cause much sexual dysfunction, but I know nothing about Celexa. Keep that in mind, 'cause here's a way that might work for you to "prove" to yourself that you are still capable of lust, anyway.Strange but trust story from just last night... my SO and I tried some natural lithium (sold as Serenity) and a cocktail (no, didn't really plan it that way- as a combo- but to maintain full disclosure here I'm being honest).
An amazing thing happened. I got brave enough to talk to him about an issue from last Friday night -I have a fear of confrontation, did I mention that? ; )- for one. When I did that, he amazingly enough opened up and poured out all of the feelings that he had been keeping inside for a couple of weeks. I mean he talked about feelings for about an hour !! A man- no, even more shocking- a man who's never been through formal therapy- okay, okay, you get my point..
Anyway, last thing that happened was the whole arousal thing came back ! I had thought I had lost it forever! Anyway, I'm going to hop over to the Alternative board to see if this has been anyone else's reacton to Serenity. I forgot that I was going to do that first thing this morning.... guess I was a little tired...
-sunny10
Posted by tampagirl70 on November 3, 2004, at 13:19:35
In reply to Re: Is it really important to be in love?, posted by sunny10 on November 3, 2004, at 12:55:57
Celexa is supposed to have the least side effects sexually and wellbutrin is supposed to help as well. My drive has always been low, like 2 or 3 times a month is more than enough for me. A month or so ago we were in bed and I was scratching his back and I got this little "tingle" and thought "hmm, a little action now would be good", but i chose to go to sleep instead. Sex just isn't a priority to me. I know that I can still be aroused, but when I feel like this - obsessing and depressed - I imagine the worst case scenario of everything and there's no interest at all.
Yesterday around 5pm I actually felt hungry, which is usually something I don't feel until I get home. When I'm like this, I feel sick to my stomach and the thought of eating is gross. And when I do eat, its usually peanut butter and jelly. A great way to lose weight, but not very healthy. My point was that I felt great last night and I was hoping for a repeat today, but so far no luck. :(
Posted by 64bowtie on November 4, 2004, at 1:33:29
In reply to Is it really important to be in love?, posted by crushedout on October 17, 2004, at 0:51:28
Posted by tampagirl70 on November 4, 2004, at 8:05:41
In reply to What is it ya' don't like about him? (nm) » crushedout, posted by 64bowtie on November 4, 2004, at 1:33:29
He's a very controlling person and I don't like to be told what to do. He's gotten better and we're constantly working on our relationship to make it better. I have a big thing for teeth - I like them straight. A couple of his aren't as straight as they could be and it doesn't bother me all of the time, but when I notice it, it drives me crazy. At times I feel like it makes him look less attractive. He's also very concerned about "image" - not his physical appearance so much, but how people perceive him. He has an expensive car, 2 expensive watches and we live a very comfortable life. I don't understand why if he's so concerned about image, he won't get his teeth fixed. He says they don't bother him and his dentist has said there's no reason to have anything done to them. Its my hang-up, I know this, and for several years it didn't bother me, but it comes around every now and then and just eats at me.
Did that answer your question?
Posted by crushedout on November 4, 2004, at 11:08:37
In reply to What is it ya' don't like about him? (nm) » crushedout, posted by 64bowtie on November 4, 2004, at 1:33:29
I think the thing I like least about him is his smugness. He's also virtually incapable of showing vulnerability. He's not "real" in the "Velveteen Rabbit" sense. On top of that, I just don't like the way he looks physically, and a lot of that just has to do with him being a man. I really am a lesbian, you know. Well, maybe you didn't. But it's true.
Posted by sunny10 on November 4, 2004, at 12:56:27
In reply to Re: What is it ya' don't like about him? » 64bowtie, posted by crushedout on November 4, 2004, at 11:08:37
If you're serious about being a lesbian, you will never be truly happy "just" with a man!
It makes more sense to me, too, that you would be scared about him "finding out you don't love him anymore". I guess it would depend on what is more important to HIM.
Is it that you love him (you do, you know) or that you're IN LOVE with him (which you seem to know you're not, if you're truly homosexual!)
Some men don't even care about the sex part in a relationship (they can find it on the side) they are more comfortable knowing that you love and respect them as a person. That type of man could be fine with you with you as a lesbian (especially if he can watch!).
-sunny10
Posted by crushedout on November 4, 2004, at 13:01:56
In reply to Re: What is it ya' don't like about him? » crushedout, posted by sunny10 on November 4, 2004, at 12:56:27
i think you're confusing me and tampagirl. i don't love the guy nor am i in love. it was just like a friendship with benefits, but then it became not so beneficial.
i also think sexuality is not so clear-cut, but nonetheless you may be right in my case. i am "serious" about being a lesbian.
Posted by sunny10 on November 4, 2004, at 13:40:44
In reply to Re: What is it ya' don't like about him? » sunny10, posted by crushedout on November 4, 2004, at 13:01:56
guess I'm confused today... sorry to you and tampagirl both!
Gotta get back to work now...if I can concentrate ; )
-sunn10
Posted by alexandra_k on November 5, 2004, at 0:46:42
In reply to Is it really important to be in love?, posted by crushedout on October 17, 2004, at 0:51:28
Hmm. Seems I had the opposite problem! When I was a teenager I thought that I was gay for a time. Actually, I didn't go in for the labels all that much, gay, bi, I didn't care - but the point was that I thought I was attracted to females.
Then I got into a lesbian relationship when I was 16. It was fine for the first few months, but then I made a discovery: I wasn't sexually attracted to females after all. If that's whats going on for you but in reverse then I do think that you need to be honest with your boyfriend and yourself about where you are at with that.
I stayed in the relationship for 4 years. Emotional security, financial security, mother figure etc etc. We argued about sex all the time and eventually it became a power and control thing. It was guaranteed to bring on the guilts for me because I felt so bad that I did not reciprocate. I figured that the friendship thing was the most important thing for a relationship. But, well, don't you want someone who you want to be intimate with as well?
Posted by crushedout on November 5, 2004, at 0:53:54
In reply to Re: Is it really important to be in love? » crushedout, posted by alexandra_k on November 5, 2004, at 0:46:42
Well, the sexuality part for me is much more complicated than that. I'm sexually attracted to both men and women, but I can't fall in love with men (I'm not *romantically* attracted to them) and I have trouble reaching orgasm with women. So what am I? Unclear. I consider myself a bisexual homoromantic, but that's rather reductive.As for honesty, I have never lied to either myself or my boyfriend. He's known from the very beginning that I'm a lesbian and that I don't think I could ever fall in love with him. It's one of the things I liked so much about him -- that he was confident enough in himself to deal with that rejection and patient enough to see what happens between us even though I was so discouraging.
I've never been good at lying to myself about much of anything.
Posted by alexandra_k on November 5, 2004, at 15:46:48
In reply to Re: Is it really important to be in love? » alexandra_k, posted by crushedout on November 5, 2004, at 0:53:54
hey there crushedout. I am sorry to misunderstand you, but I think you have clarified the situation a bit.
> As for honesty, I have never lied to either myself or my boyfriend. He's known from the very beginning that I'm a lesbian and that I don't think I could ever fall in love with him. It's one of the things I liked so much about him -- that he was confident enough in himself to deal with that rejection and patient enough to see what happens between us even though I was so discouraging.
> I've never been good at lying to myself about much of anything.I am sorry, I hope that you didn't feel that I was accusing you of lying. Maybe I am reading too much of myself into your situation.
It sounds like the situation is pretty complicated. But I guess that if you don't think you can fall in love with a guy then don't you worry a bit about making the eventual breakup harder on him by encouraging his attachment? I mean, if he thinks he is in love with you. But then maybe he doesn't know and just wants to wait and see where things go as well as you.
I don't know. SOunds to me like you would be better off with a female.
This is the end of the thread.
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