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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by backseatdriver on February 10, 2009, at 20:09:55
Hey Babblers,
Anyone have a T who fixes you with an intense stare? Mine does this, every single session, about halfway through.
Here's what's on my mind: Is this a standard therapeutic intervention? Something they are trained to do? What is the therapeutic value of it?
My eye contact in general is pretty good, and I'm usually in good emotional touch with T throughout the sessions. So I don't think he's trying to contact me.
Weirdly, even though I'm not currently nursing an infant, my milk-ejection reflex kicks in every single time - sorry if that's TMI -- but the stare does seem to trigger an oxytocin cascade.
Any ideas? Is this normal? Erotic transference on my part? Erotic countertransference on his? I do hold the stare but have been too shy to take a look at what's happening, um, in his lap.
Thanks,
BSD
Posted by raisinb on February 10, 2009, at 21:27:40
In reply to What's Up with the Intense Stare?, posted by backseatdriver on February 10, 2009, at 20:09:55
In my experience (I've seen 8 or 10 different therapists) they all stare. Some lean back in their chair, looking thoughtfully at you. Some are more intense.
Mine stares intensely. She also leans forward towards me, and if I look down, she tips her head down to get a better look at my face. It's also a very small office and we're close spacewise. I complain all the time that I feel like I'm under a microscope. It makes me tense. Sometimes I leave and realize I'm physically drained because I've been tensing my muscles the whole time--I feel like she can sense every little movement.
But in a way, it's nice. Sometimes she gets this intensely interested, delighted look as she dips her head down--I always think it's like she's watching a baby chick being born.
Posted by wittgensteinz on February 11, 2009, at 4:10:13
In reply to What's Up with the Intense Stare?, posted by backseatdriver on February 10, 2009, at 20:09:55
I have to agree with Raisin, I think it's something most Ts do. My pdoc is definitely a starer. I wonder whether he has X-ray eyes and it's hard for me to escape his gaze, so I tend to look straight back and fix on his eyes. With my T, the chairs are angled apart so, when looking forward, he is out of my line of sight. Sometimes I look at him and he is staring at me, I try to stare him out but never win and end up looking back at the rug, or one of the paintings after a few seconds. Rugs are quite stare-friendly :)
Witti
Posted by antigua3 on February 11, 2009, at 6:53:11
In reply to Re: What's Up with the Intense Stare? » backseatdriver, posted by wittgensteinz on February 11, 2009, at 4:10:13
I think I know every inch of my pdoc's rug, and the pictures on his wall. Anything to avert the stare sometimes.
antigua
Posted by lucie lu on February 11, 2009, at 10:03:32
In reply to What's Up with the Intense Stare?, posted by backseatdriver on February 10, 2009, at 20:09:55
I don't know if my T stares throughout the session because I am looking at the rug or books on his shelf much of the time (lol) But when we do have eye contact, it doesn't feel like a stare to me, just like two people talking and connected to one another.
I will say that at work, especially in meetings, I have perfected my own stare which covers up the fact that my mind is somewhere else (usually on a beach with palm trees). I sometimes wonder if it is unrealistic for me to assume my T never does the same ;)
Posted by Annierose on February 11, 2009, at 10:28:57
In reply to Re: What's Up with the Intense Stare? » backseatdriver, posted by lucie lu on February 11, 2009, at 10:03:32
My therapist definitely does not stare at me. I have recently switched from laying on the couch to sitting so I am having a hard time looking at her. But when I do look at her while she is talking, she often has her own eyes closed. I don't find this particularly worrisome, because it looks as if she is thinking/concentrating/gathering her thoughts while she is talking ... it's not at all a sleepy eyes shut thing.
I think it's an adjustment for both of us ... me sitting ... even after 5 years of knowing each other.
Posted by Dinah on February 11, 2009, at 10:30:00
In reply to What's Up with the Intense Stare?, posted by backseatdriver on February 10, 2009, at 20:09:55
My therapist gazes at me, but it seems like an interested attention (or sometimes a glazed attempt at interested attention). Not at all an intense stare. Now my sheepdog gives me an intense stare. Sometimes it feels great, but a lot of times it feels more like she's trying to hypnotize me. (And given that it's often at dinnertime, she probably is.)
I wouldn't want to do therapy with my sheepdog. So I imagine it would be rather uncomfortable.
Posted by Recently on February 11, 2009, at 12:30:27
In reply to What's Up with the Intense Stare?, posted by backseatdriver on February 10, 2009, at 20:09:55
I think maybe they teach them the stare ;-)
My T is a starer, but I am really bad at eye contact. Whenever I peek up, or if I am able to make eye contact during some less intense period, my gaze is always met. It's a little intimidating, but I guess I find it comforting, too, in a way. Like she wants me to make eye contact, and that she is listening intently.Recently
Posted by raisinb on February 11, 2009, at 13:52:07
In reply to Re: What's Up with the Intense Stare? » backseatdriver, posted by Dinah on February 11, 2009, at 10:30:00
Dinah, that's awesome ;) I'm sure you know this already, but sheepherding breeds have that stare because it's supposed to exert some kind of power over the sheep. I had a border collie mix who used to do it all the time, especially when I was sleeping and he wanted me to wake up. Took me a while to realize it was instinct, not demonic possession ;)
Posted by Dinah on February 11, 2009, at 14:08:16
In reply to Re: What's Up with the Intense Stare? » Dinah, posted by raisinb on February 11, 2009, at 13:52:07
I snorted Dr. Pepper through my nose!
I'm told my girl tries to do that too. But I'm way too deep a sleeper. She has to bark until I get up and let her out. Apparently only I can properly open the door. Or else she thinks that sleeping after a certain time means there's something wrong with me. She refuses to go out for anyone else in the morning. :)
I can always feel her staring, and feel compelled to do something. Feed her, or move into a pen, or something. :) But it comes very handy for obedience. She does a great "lookit".
Posted by Dinah on February 11, 2009, at 14:10:43
In reply to (Sheepdogs) » raisinb, posted by Dinah on February 11, 2009, at 14:08:16
Maybe the screening process for therapists does include a "lookit" test. Come to think of it, mine might have failed because I distinctly remember telling him once that I was metaphorically putting a piece of pupperoni on my nose and saying "Lookit!" to him.
Posted by backseatdriver on February 11, 2009, at 14:16:18
In reply to (Therapists), posted by Dinah on February 11, 2009, at 14:10:43
Oh, I've got a shepherd. He has a certain strange stare, too.
Could my T be mesmerizing me -- like a sheep?
Posted by raisinb on February 11, 2009, at 15:31:29
In reply to (Sheepdogs) » raisinb, posted by Dinah on February 11, 2009, at 14:08:16
It's funny--she actually *is* trying to hypnotize you! It just isn't working the way it does with sheep. Neither does herding, though it never stopped my dog from trying.
Posted by raisinb on February 11, 2009, at 15:34:07
In reply to Re: (Therapists), posted by backseatdriver on February 11, 2009, at 14:16:18
That depends. Does he bump you with his behind when you walk in the room so you'll herd in with the rest of the clients? :)
Posted by lucie lu on February 11, 2009, at 15:57:17
In reply to Re: (Therapists) » backseatdriver, posted by raisinb on February 11, 2009, at 15:34:07
My border collie mix does both, bump us from behind to herd us (toward the door) and try to stare us into doing what he wants (let him out). I have been trying to teach him to "use his words" instead of acting out. As smart as he is, being a border collie, he has trouble articulating the word "out." But he does get the concept, and I usually settle for a low growl and then let him out (our yard is fenced in).
In most of the animal kingdom, staring is considered a very aggressive act. In the body language of many animals, staring at the alpha member can get you attacked (in many cities, staring at anyone can get you attacked).
Staring asserts your dominance if you are the one staring and able to hold your gaze. The meaning of this behavior in therapists is therefore up for question.
Posted by backseatdriver on February 11, 2009, at 16:02:38
In reply to Re: (Therapists), posted by lucie lu on February 11, 2009, at 15:57:17
Just found this:
Jørstad, J. (1988). Aspects of Transference and Countertransference in Relation to Gaze and Mutual Gaze during Psychoanalysis. Scand. Psychoanal. Rev., 11:117-140.
Posted by Dinah on February 11, 2009, at 16:16:43
In reply to A citation -- further reading!, posted by backseatdriver on February 11, 2009, at 16:02:38
rofl.
Ok, well that explains things. My therapist isn't particularly dominant. And he's definitely a Newfie, not a sheepdog.
Mine doesn't bump from behind though... She "nips" my ankles. Well, actually she ferociously attacks them with sound and fury and a whirl of white teeth and not the teensiest bit of pressure.
That's my dog, not my therapist. :)
Posted by Looney Tunes on February 12, 2009, at 1:27:14
In reply to Re: (Therapists), posted by lucie lu on February 11, 2009, at 15:57:17
Ok, imagine a dog that stares, herds in circles, AND nips at your ankles to get you to move to the door.
And my corgi's stare for treats.....it could bend steel.
Now...my T, dunno...never look at T.
Posted by Dinah on February 12, 2009, at 7:55:37
In reply to Re: Herders -- Corgis ~ they stare, herd, and nip, posted by Looney Tunes on February 12, 2009, at 1:27:14
On the other hand, I had a Collie in the worst years of my childhood who would gaze searchingly into my eyes as I poured out my woes nose to nose, and mumble in that collie way under her breath, for all the world as if she were murmuring words of comfort.
A therapist who could do that would be worth his weight in gold. Maybe that's what they are aiming for.
Mind you, she was also soft and warm and solid and furry. So in that way she was better than a therapist.
Of course, I also had a sighthound who did something similar, except that she mirrored posture and tone. Her vocalizations would rise and fall with whoever was telling a sad tale of woe. But she was teasing us, not sympathizing so much. Little imp.
Still, I know my Collie was sincere, and I like to think the therapists are too.
Posted by nellie7 on February 13, 2009, at 8:24:04
In reply to What's Up with the Intense Stare?, posted by backseatdriver on February 10, 2009, at 20:09:55
T's have stared at me for saying something pathetic. More often they would look down at the floor and attempt unsuccessfully to hide their laugh. I used to think they were taught to do that as a subtle expression of sarcasm. Now it seems that they simply cannot restrain themselves, or that they assume I am too dumb to notice.
This is the end of the thread.
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