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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Happyflower on June 16, 2008, at 13:42:01
He got my message and my letter I dropped off. He said he wanted to talk to my T to see what is going on in my therapy before we meet, wanted to get a form signed for permission to do this. Then schedule an appointment next week or the next.
He sounded friendly.
So now I need to wait until this Thurs. when I see my T and talk about this. I am a little scared of both my T's talking to each other about me, only because I don't want it to ruin my relationship with my T. I will tell my T about my fear about this and I am kinda wondering what exactly they plan to talk about.
Posted by rskontos on June 16, 2008, at 14:00:59
In reply to He called just now, posted by Happyflower on June 16, 2008, at 13:42:01
HF, I don't have a lot of wisdom to impart in all of this, all I can say is follow your heart, and be prepared that it might not end like you want. Just be prepared for it to end unexpectedly. Then maybe you can have the peace you deserve. I think you might just need closure once and for all.
Oh yeah, as far as them talking together, I guess I would be uncomfortable about that too. Just tell Current T what you are comfortable with him discussing and what would be off limits. He should respect that.
rsk
good luck
Posted by Happyflower on June 16, 2008, at 15:42:16
In reply to Re: He called just now » Happyflower, posted by rskontos on June 16, 2008, at 14:00:59
I guess for me, there isn't really anything off topic, but my current T has had more things disclosed to him from me. But I am still kinda nervous about it. Why does he have to have my T tell him about my current therapy? I can explain it myself just fine. I just hope my current T will explain things on how I feel.
I think I will write up a list of what I want to talk about with my old T and then show the list to my current T. Maybe this will help. Any other ideas of what would help?
Posted by rskontos on June 16, 2008, at 15:49:44
In reply to Re: He called just now » rskontos, posted by Happyflower on June 16, 2008, at 15:42:16
Well, if anything makes you nervous then I would tell him that. I think a list of things you are going to talk about is a good idea. That way your current T, Good T, will help you see how or how not you might be going to be helped with that. How bad T might or might not respond.
And as for explaining it just fine I am sure you can. But it is probably an ethical thing that the old T, Bad T, call Current T, Good T, to say hey I am going to speak to your current client. Is this ok. Not that you can't explain where you are or aren't.
JMHO,
rsk
Posted by Phillipa on June 16, 2008, at 16:51:54
In reply to Re: He called just now, posted by rskontos on June 16, 2008, at 15:49:44
Happyflower sounds like a winner. Phillipa
Posted by sunnydays on June 16, 2008, at 22:57:21
In reply to Re: He called just now, posted by Phillipa on June 16, 2008, at 16:51:54
I think that ethically he has to make sure your current T is aware he is talking to you - I had sort of this situation before and they won't discuss much, just enough to know that this has been talked about. That you're not doing something impulsive without the knowledge of your current T, etc. And to get the legal issues, signing of papers and such, ironed out. Probably not to get an idea of what you want to talk about. Probably more to straighten out some of those ethical issues. Tell your T EXPLICITLY anything you don't want him to share with oldT. He legally has to respect that, I believe. But it must be crystal clear from your wording, you can't be vague at all.
Are you sure you want to do this HF? I just get the sense that you want to vanquish oldT and for him to feel vanquished, and I don't think you're going to get that. I think he'll either be really defensive and denying, or get angry. Also, some of the things you are saying, like you have said, are in an ethical gray area, so I don't expect you will be able to get him to agree with you that they were wrong. He MAY agree it's a gray area, but he may also claim that you interpreted it totally wrong and never told him how you were interpreting it (and that he never understood any hints or whatever signs you think he should have been able to interpret) so he never knew how it was affecting you.
I just want you to be prepared for it to go the exact opposite of how you want/think it's going to go. Human beings are fickle creatures, and terribly unpredictable. Don't get your hopes up. And I think it might be wise to consider not doing it, just because it can be impossible not to get unconscious hopes up, and, in my personal experience, those are the most devastating ones to have crushed.
Take care of yourself,
sunnydays
Posted by antigua3 on June 17, 2008, at 13:38:53
In reply to He called just now, posted by Happyflower on June 16, 2008, at 13:42:01
I did this once with an old T that just devastated me and abandoned me after he had agreed to take me on for long-term therapy. When I requested to meet with him to "clear" this up, he agreed, but all he kept saying was "I'm sorry, I'm sorry." It wasn't what I wanted and going had its own impact, which took me awhile to get over. I couldn't have done it w/o my long-standing T who agreed how unethical the other one was. She helped me work through it, but it was very painful.
So please take care. And expect nothing, except for how you will react if he gets angry or defensive. Don't let him blame it on you. If he does, you're going nowhere.
Despite the pain, I'm still glad I went back. In the long run it helped me work through many issues re: my abandonment issues.
Good luck,
antigua
Posted by Happyflower on June 17, 2008, at 16:54:09
In reply to Just be prepared, posted by antigua3 on June 17, 2008, at 13:38:53
Thanks for you sharing your experience, I am glad it helped in some way for you.
Expecting nothing will be hard, I still have some hope it will help me, but you can't know for sure going in to it. What made you decided to see him for this?
For me it was like nothing else was helping and even my current T was like, "again?" I think it is hard for him too because he has made some boundary blurs in his 40's years in the beginning of his career. So this makes it real for him for his mistakes he made. He has even told me this, seeing my pain, makes him feel guilty somewhat of mistakes he has done. But I need to do what I think will help.
Posted by Happyflower on June 17, 2008, at 16:55:29
In reply to Just be prepared, posted by antigua3 on June 17, 2008, at 13:38:53
Posted by Happyflower on June 17, 2008, at 17:07:54
In reply to Re: He called just now, posted by sunnydays on June 16, 2008, at 22:57:21
> I think that ethically he has to make sure your current T is aware he is talking to you - I had sort of this situation before and they won't discuss much, just enough to know that this has been talked about. That you're not doing something impulsive without the knowledge of your current T, etc.
I think you might be right because when he told me all of this, I said that my T knows that I phoned him. And he said, oh, okay. Like he was relieved or something. he said, oh, so you have been talking about me in therapy, I said, yeah for a whole year. (lol, yeah you are deep sh*t) lol
>
> Are you sure you want to do this HF? I just get the sense that you want to vanquish oldT and for him to feel vanquished, and I don't think you're going to get that.
In my letter I told him that I just wanted to not feel bad or hurt when I see him in public. Plus since I am going into the field myself, I think it will be really important for my career too. If I can't get this worked out, I will change gyms, so I don't have to see him so much.I think he'll either be really defensive and denying, or get angry. Also, some of the things you are saying, like you have said, are in an ethical gray area, so I don't expect you will be able to get him to agree with you that they were wrong. He MAY agree it's a gray area, but he may also claim that you interpreted it totally wrong and never told him how you were interpreting it (and that he never understood any hints or whatever signs you think he should have been able to interpret) so he never knew how it was
affecting you.I know this and the thing is that I have tried many times to talk about this but he avoided it so much. He always told me that our relationship was like for practice in the real world. Well communication is a good skill to learn in relationships. Well I tried to communicate, and he didn't keep up his end of the deal. I already have a relationship like that with my DH, I didn't need another.
>
> I just want you to be prepared for it to go the exact opposite of how you want/think it's going to go. Human beings are fickle creatures, and terribly unpredictable. Don't get your hopes up. And I think it might be wise to consider not doing it, just because it can be impossible not to get unconscious hopes up, and, in my personal experience, those are the most devastating ones to have crushed.Well he already crushed those hopes and I have seen him be a defensive, egotistic *ssh*l*, so that will nothing new. lol I am hoping after he talks to my T, he will know that I need to have some healing here. And the fact that my T is almost supervising this, will maybe make it a better outcome I think. But I am going to talk to him about his uncontrolled counter transference, that might get sticky, but I am going tell him what I think. I don't believe that he tried to hurt me in my heart of knowing, and I don't wish anything bad to happen to him. I just want him to know how much he hurt me and why. Maybe he will learn something about all of this.
Thanks so much for your support sunny, it is very helpful as always.
>
> Take care of yourself,
> sunnydays
Posted by Happyflower on June 17, 2008, at 17:11:08
In reply to Re: He called just now, posted by rskontos on June 16, 2008, at 15:49:44
Thanks RK,
I wonder how many names I could come up with
Mr. Sexylegs
Dr. Redface
Dr. Streaker
Dr. Blue eyes
(and remember I saw his bum once, remember? lol )
Posted by rskontos on June 17, 2008, at 20:42:37
In reply to Re: He called just now » rskontos, posted by Happyflower on June 17, 2008, at 17:11:08
OMG how could I forgot the bum, I think I would walk in there and just start howling with laughter. Or run. I watched that episode of Sex in the City last nigh where Samantha thought she could be with an really old rich man until she saw his bum! and then she took off running out the door. Now I remember that whole thing.....LMAO.....
rsk
man o man, I needed that laugh today......
Posted by Hermitian on June 18, 2008, at 11:31:30
In reply to He called just now, posted by Happyflower on June 16, 2008, at 13:42:01
Happyflower - Don't do it!
The guy is a loser and a creep. Him talking with your new therapist provides you personally with ABSOLUTELY NO VALUE.
That guy is history. All he is doing is playing CYA because you mentioned "court". He wants to tell your guy that you are delusional or exaggerating or something. It was just a simple miscommunication.
Because if you come clean with your new guy, he may actually encourage you to seek legal redress against that pathetic boob. And he could even testify in court that you were traumatized by the creep. Which would support a mal-practice claim. Nope, that knucklehead wants to pre-empt your challenge by sowing the seed of doubt in your new guy, making him circumspect and maybe even suspect about your complaints/accusations.
If that clown was a self-absorbed creep before, what makes him less of one now? So no, do not let him insert himself in any part of your life from now on.
P.S. In fact, if you want a slice of sweet revenge, if he contacts you again, tell him to go through your attorney. Man, I'd love to see the look on his face when he hangs up the receiver.
Posted by sunnydays on June 18, 2008, at 12:52:51
In reply to Re: He called just now - Deep Six That Clown!, posted by Hermitian on June 18, 2008, at 11:31:30
I HIGHLY doubt that is the reason. HF has been seeing her new T long enough so he knows her. I strongly believe it is for ethical reasons - again I had a similar situation I won't go into, but T's like to know when one is going to be talking to more than one of them at the same time. And, just personally, I don't think there's anything in court that would hold up as malpractice since it's all in that gray area - maybe it should, maybe it shouldn't - but gray areas are difficult for lawyers to argue.
sunnydays
Posted by antigua3 on June 19, 2008, at 14:39:38
In reply to Re: Just be prepared, posted by Happyflower on June 17, 2008, at 16:54:09
I couldn't get past it; that's why I went to see him. I was stuck in this agony of longing to see him, that I now understand was based on feelings from my past. But I had to break that cord with him because it was so very, very painful for me.
Did seeing him break the cord? Eventually, after some really hard work with my regular T, I was better off. But it hurt so much to have him just sit there and limit himself to "I'm sorry, I'm sorry." I wanted him to take some accountability for his actions, but that wasn't going to happen. So I worked with my T about why that was so important, and of course it led me back to wanting my abuser to take responsibility, which he never did.
Like I said, in retrospect I'm glad I did it, but it was very difficult.
antigua
Posted by Hermitian on June 19, 2008, at 19:14:51
In reply to Re: He called just now - Deep Six That Clown! » Hermitian, posted by sunnydays on June 18, 2008, at 12:52:51
Hey, I have no problem with therapists consulting each other. But you are assuming two ethical, competent professionals are exchanging information. What HF has is one who is ethical and competent and had one who is a self-absorbed dimwit who gets his jollies taking patients on an emotional roller coaster. Professionals cross consult when it would help the client. In this case there is no help to be had.
And about mal-practice gray areas - that's why we have lawyers. Why should HF give that distasteful mass of protoplasm an edge?
This is the end of the thread.
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