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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on January 4, 2008, at 11:44:42
I didn't want to divert Annierose's thread by asking you about this, but I was wondering.
You said:
> Second, is the slow realization and final acceptance that we have almost no control over our lives. This is usually the greater of the two. All the break-ups, injuries, all the horrible and wonderful things that have happened. I've merely been one small part of the equation. Most of my life I've tried to fight that fact and force things to be the way I want them to be. And most of the time has only ended in frustration, depression, and anxiety.
Doesn't this mean that we actually have a fair amount of control over our lives? We can influence the cards we draw by our choices, but in the end they are out of our control. The control we have in our lives is how we play the cards we're dealt. And I see that as a not insignificant amount of control.
Posted by Phillipa on January 4, 2008, at 12:50:07
In reply to Bodhisattva, posted by Dinah on January 4, 2008, at 11:44:42
Dinah may I join and hope for any answer as I feel this is an important question. If not say so and I'll leave. Phillipa
Posted by Dinah on January 4, 2008, at 12:51:57
In reply to Re: Bodhisattva » Dinah, posted by Phillipa on January 4, 2008, at 12:50:07
Phillipa, you are always welcome to join in any thread as far as I'm concern, and to post anything you like (in keeping with civility guidelines of course) whether or not you agree with me.
You are always well-come to me.
Dinah
Posted by Bodhisattva on January 4, 2008, at 12:54:09
In reply to Bodhisattva, posted by Dinah on January 4, 2008, at 11:44:42
The cards do not always have the same effect. we can once again influence the ways in which those cards will affect our lives but once again it is often completely out of our control.
Using the analogy of a card game, the rules are always in flux along with the players and the number and meanings of the cards.
The place that is under your control is you. Your key to control is your perceptions. Master the input and you will be master of the output.
Posted by Dinah on January 4, 2008, at 13:02:23
In reply to Re: Bodhisattva » Dinah, posted by Bodhisattva on January 4, 2008, at 12:54:09
I think I'd rather the perceptions actually reflect the reality. :) My interpretations of the perceptions are a different matter.
So to take two examples. I was in New Orleans in Katrina. Obviously where the flood waters went was totally out of my control. Break in one place, one area was flooded, break in another place, another area was flooded. Rich, poor, good, bad, well kept home, poorly kept home. All were equally affected by something totally out of the control of anyone. At least at that point. Leaving out discussions of floodwall design and maintenance.
How it affected any individual homeowner was out of their control in whether their home was lost, but partially in their control as to whether they had adequate flood insurance in the magnitude of the economic loss. Not to be confused at all with the emotional loss.
How a person reacted was, to a large degree, in their control. For once in my life, I was the calmest person around, and helped ground those around me not to make panicked foolish decisions that would just make things worse.
But for another example, I too am diabetic. Not insulin dependent. It was partly genetics, but it was partly my choices in lifestyle. How I deal with it (in my case not particularly well) is entirely in my control.
So I guess I see both the fact that we have no control over some things, while not at all underestimating the number of things we do have control over.
Posted by Bodhisattva on January 4, 2008, at 13:10:22
In reply to Bodhisattva, posted by Dinah on January 4, 2008, at 11:44:42
Let me go on to clarify.
I think I've suffered and do suffer because of the fact that I used to and still on occasion try to live in the idea that something "out there" will bend to my will. By "out there" I mean anything that is not inside my own head.
Surely I can influence things, and other people with my actions and my words. But it is NOT my action that truly has an effect. It is the thing's reaction that truly has the effect.
If I were to attempt to sell something, I would talk about how good that thing is and how nice it would be to own it. But the buyer's reaction to both my words and the thing itself, along with many other factors decide if the thing is actually bought. But where I am in complete control is my reaction to the buyer's possible rejection. I could be so disappointed that I never try again. Or I could be invigorated by the challenge and try again with increased determination.
It's the acceptance of that truth, that has helped me cope with the unpleasant things that arise in my life.
Posted by Dinah on January 4, 2008, at 13:19:22
In reply to Re: Bodhisattva » Dinah, posted by Bodhisattva on January 4, 2008, at 13:10:22
On that I absolutely agree.
The only person we can change is us.
And the biggest source of pain in many people's lives comes from trying to change others, or in relying on outside things to go "right".
Acceptance is so important.
Posted by Dinah on January 4, 2008, at 13:20:52
In reply to Re: Bodhisattva » Bodhisattva, posted by Dinah on January 4, 2008, at 13:19:22
> And the biggest source of pain in many people's lives comes from trying to change others, or in relying on outside things to go "right".
Ummmm.... I don't want to generalize, so perhaps I should say it seems to me that this is often the case.
Whew.
Posted by Bodhisattva on January 4, 2008, at 13:22:59
In reply to Re: Bodhisattva, posted by Dinah on January 4, 2008, at 13:20:52
Then it seems we are in agreement. We just had to find the right glove for the right hand.
Posted by star008 on January 4, 2008, at 16:21:55
In reply to Bodhisattva, posted by Dinah on January 4, 2008, at 11:44:42
guess it all goes back to the 12 step programs.. we have no control over people places and things.. all the nouns,, we have control over the choices we make but so much is out of our control
Posted by DAisym on January 4, 2008, at 17:57:34
In reply to Re: Bodhisattva » Dinah, posted by star008 on January 4, 2008, at 16:21:55
I think there is more of a middle ground than "no control" or "absolute control" for any one person. (Aren't I good at pointing out the obvious?) So many people throw their hands in the air and declare, "I have no control" and yet they do - things like timing, or planning or perspective gives us more control over our lives than many think.
Going back to Dinah's flood example - the average person would agree that there was no control to be had over the water. But planning for a disaster is in one's control. Or helping another person - you can control the timing of the offer, and how you present it.
So maybe what I'm actually saying is we have more influence over things, while not being able to absolutely control them.
If I want to sell something, I can influence the buyer by the words I choose, or how hard I worked to spiff up the thing, or even in my willingness to bargain the price. But I can't, in the end, MAKE him buy.
Semantics? Perhaps. But I think part of the trouble with so many things right now is abdication of personal responsibility, which sometimes is framed in the "I had no control over that" statement. I know that isn't what you are saying, but perhaps total acceptance of no control should not mean total acceptance of no influence.
Posted by Phillipa on January 4, 2008, at 19:12:24
In reply to Re: Bodhisattva » Dinah, posted by Bodhisattva on January 4, 2008, at 13:10:22
Wow that is a strong message to me and I thank-you for it as I let what others think totally depress me. My example is new to ebay and I spent a lot of time and creativity trying to present an item that is very sellable and likeable and when not sold I take it as a rejection of me. And it's not I see that now. Thanks Dinah too as I knew this thread had important info for me also. Love Phillipa
Posted by Bodhisattva on January 7, 2008, at 11:26:57
In reply to Re: Bodhisattva » Bodhisattva, posted by Phillipa on January 4, 2008, at 19:12:24
Phillipa, I am glad that the explanation of my methods was able to help you. And I have yet another tidbit to offer. Another observation.
The longer I live, the more situations in which people are attempting to control me in some fashion I find myself in.
I'm not speaking to friends or family, I don't get that feeling from them very often ( Although it does happen ). I'm speaking of people I barely know or people I just meet. Even people who live in the TV ( not really live, but that's the only place I see them ).
But them having that goal presents an interesting truth for me. If I exercise complete self-control, then I have in my possession the thing that someone else REALLY wants. Then I'm in possession of all the bargaining chips.
If you want evidence of this, try in one situation in your life to have an infinite amount of patience and understanding. And NEVER under any circumstance let go of yourself. Yeah...it's hard to do, but the difference...is absolutely amazing.
Posted by Phillipa on January 7, 2008, at 21:02:06
In reply to Re: Bodhisattva » Phillipa, posted by Bodhisattva on January 7, 2008, at 11:26:57
Not quite sure I understand . Sorry would you mind explaining a bit more? Phillipa
This is the end of the thread.
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