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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by MidnightBlue on July 1, 2007, at 0:24:32
I've been doing some research and have uncovered multiple family members who exhibit behavior that by most standards would be considered problematic. Let me preface this by saying we are talking about people who are long gone, some lived over 100 years ago.
While I'm sure it is impossible to diagnose these people, I was wondering what you thought their behavior could imply. More than one relative in the same family line had multiple marriages. One person had more than 8 and another who married 4 times had more than one marriage at once. This clearly seems to "run in the family" through at least four generations though it does not extend to my parents or to me.
I also found three or four relatives who spent many years in state operated insane asylums. I apologize for that reference, but that is exactly what they were called. One even referred to the patients as inmates! And no, I don't think it was a prison!
After examining my genes, I'm glad to be as sane as I am! Any thoughts on what clinical diagnoses we could have here?
MidnightBlue
Posted by Sigismund on July 1, 2007, at 2:52:17
In reply to Looking at the PAST PAST, posted by MidnightBlue on July 1, 2007, at 0:24:32
>I've been doing some research and have uncovered multiple family members who exhibit behavior that by most standards would be considered problematic.
Maybe by most standards.
I feel I would prefer their standards and judgement of our standards, but then that might be because they are a safe 100 years old.
Posted by sunnydays on July 1, 2007, at 10:47:19
In reply to Looking at the PAST PAST, posted by MidnightBlue on July 1, 2007, at 0:24:32
I'm not sure, but I have strange stuff in my family too. My grandmother married her second cousin. My grandfather was probably bipolar (although looking at his medical records it's hard to tell). There's lots more strange stuff I can't remember off the top of my head.
It's pretty much impossible to diagnose people that long ago unless you have detailed written accounts of their behavior. Even then it's really hard, as in the case of my grandfather, because the dxs didn't exist then and neither did many of the treatments we had today, so it's hard to infer from those what was being treated. I don't think you'll ever really know.
sunnydays
Posted by Phillipa on July 1, 2007, at 12:19:37
In reply to Re: Looking at the PAST PAST » MidnightBlue, posted by sunnydays on July 1, 2007, at 10:47:19
I agree with sunnydays. Only thing I wanted to add was that a lot of people died very young back then which could explain the multiple marriages. Love Phillipa remember no antibiotics.
Posted by canadagirl on July 1, 2007, at 12:34:10
In reply to Looking at the PAST PAST, posted by MidnightBlue on July 1, 2007, at 0:24:32
Maybe no clinical diagnoses, but it sounds like perhaps they couldn't make up their minds!
In my background, I found two 17 year olds - the girl got pregnant and then they got married. Scandalous in 17th century Europe.
For sure, I think some of this is genetically linked in some way from our ancestors. Depression runs in my background as well as schizophrenia. I am worried for my kids, not so much about me.
Posted by MidnightBlue on July 1, 2007, at 15:20:38
In reply to Re: Looking at the PAST PAST, posted by Phillipa on July 1, 2007, at 12:19:37
Phillipa,
These multiple marriages were NOT because of death. I'm not counting those.
MB
Posted by MidnightBlue on July 1, 2007, at 15:28:23
In reply to Re: Looking at the PAST PAST » MidnightBlue, posted by canadagirl on July 1, 2007, at 12:34:10
One of the inpatients was diagnosed as paranoid schizophrenic. But from what I know of that diagnosis, I wonder if she was bipolar instead. Her mother also spent many years as an in patient. No diagnosis for her.
The multiple marriages? Honestly the one I knew did seem to have something wrong with him. He was abusive, charming, clever, smart, quite a character. His sister, his father, and a daughter of his all had problems. I think it was more than just making bad decisions.
MB
Posted by OzLand on July 1, 2007, at 20:01:50
In reply to Looking at the PAST PAST, posted by MidnightBlue on July 1, 2007, at 0:24:32
People used to die from all sorts of things back then, and they seemed "crazy" before they died. They got crazy and then died from everything from syphilis to lead poisoning. Other physical disorders that are very treatable today used to result in "insanity" and death. It would be worth it to check on diseases of the time in their area. My husband's maternal grandfather was married three times but due to death of first two wives. You would have to look at where they lived, and what was the culture of the times there as well.
Posted by MidnightBlue on July 1, 2007, at 20:20:49
In reply to Looking at the PAST PAST, posted by MidnightBlue on July 1, 2007, at 0:24:32
I'm sorry I brought this up. No one died. At least not in an untimely fashion. I was just trying to figure out what if any mental illness ran in my family. Like I said, some of these people had strange behavior. This is not a condemnation of people who remarry. But I do think it is unusual to remarry several times in a few years span.
MB
Posted by Phillipa on July 1, 2007, at 20:53:52
In reply to Re: Looking at the PAST PAST, posted by MidnightBlue on July 1, 2007, at 20:20:49
So are you looking for people who divorced? As so many diseased killed people then and even chldbirth. I'm just not quite sure what you're looking for could you reword it somehow? I have multiple marriages as poor choices on my part but that doesn't make me crazy just the common sense to get out. Love Phillipa
Posted by MidnightBlue on July 1, 2007, at 22:01:36
In reply to Re: Looking at the PAST PAST » MidnightBlue, posted by Phillipa on July 1, 2007, at 20:53:52
Phillipi,
I am sorry if you feel offended. I am not saying that people who get married several times are crazy. There are two different subjects. One subject was asking about relatives who married multiple times in a short period of time.
The other subject was about relatives who were locked up for long periods of time in mental institutions.
You might also note that I said that some of the people in multiple marraiges were abusive towards their spouses. Some got divorced, some didn't bother to get a divorce, they just remarried. No one died! At least not until they reached a ripe old age. I am not talking about people who remarry because they lose a spouse through illness or childbirth. Or people who remarry someone better because they made a poor choice the first time.
I have tried to make myself clear but obviously I'm just making things worse so PLEASE forgive me if I have offended you in any way. This is not about you or anyone else who has been married more than two times. This was about a 4 generation trend in my family.
MidnightBlue
Posted by sunnydays on July 1, 2007, at 22:04:07
In reply to Re: Looking at the PAST PAST, posted by MidnightBlue on July 1, 2007, at 20:20:49
You're definitely right, it is unusual to remarry several times very quickly. But it doesn't necessarily mean there's mental illness involved. I find it so interesting to consider these things. Because you can never know for certain these things from long ago, and you can never meet the people. And I just find it so intriguing to consider what their lives would have been like. What came over my great-grandmother to divorce her husband when no one in the early 1900s divorced? It's sort of a wish for me to find out who I am, I guess, to look to the past to find clues about me. I wonder if that's any of it for you?
I'm sorry that you're sorry you brought it up. Really, if you can get any medical records on them it would help you a lot more to figure things out. I really find the past so intriguing that my early post was just sort of trying to express that interest, however clumsily I guess.
sunnydays
Posted by Phillipa on July 1, 2007, at 22:39:44
In reply to Re: Looking at the PAST PAST » Phillipa, posted by MidnightBlue on July 1, 2007, at 22:01:36
I'm not offended at all. I have a lot of history on family background. You can even google one of my relatives I was named after. Anneke Jan Bogardus. Love Phillipa no mention of mental illness but it does anxiety runs in Mother, Father, Sister, Her Son, Daughter, my Daugher.
Posted by OzLand on July 1, 2007, at 23:28:04
In reply to Re: Looking at the PAST PAST, posted by MidnightBlue on July 1, 2007, at 20:20:49
Sorry; but they still could have had physical problems caused by things like lead poisoning that looked like a psychiatric problem. On the other hand, who knows. I had a brother who was schizophrenic, but who knows if anyone else in the family. I am not. I will never know on my one side of the family. They died at Auswitz. I guess I can't let myself worry about it as what was once considered schizophrenia was really sometimes something else.
Posted by Dinah on July 2, 2007, at 8:44:38
In reply to Looking at the PAST PAST, posted by MidnightBlue on July 1, 2007, at 0:24:32
I think OzLand is right in that there were a lot of conditions in those days that could mimic mental illness.
And I also suspect that most people can find evidence of mental illness in the family if they look. Ancestors multiply pretty quickly as you go back, and siblings of ancestors in those pre-birth control days even more so.
I don't need to look that far. My mother's family has a history of either bipolar or schizophrenia, it's hard to extract which and in fact I think the people involved have been differently diagnosed. My father's family has an enormously strong history of addictive behavior and depression.
It isn't a predictor of the future though. In my mother's family there are siblings where the kids may be a bit prone to things like IBS or migraines but otherwise seem fine, siblings where the kids appear to be enormously well adjusted, and siblings where one or more kids clearly have problems. My father's family appears to be the same, but the sample size is too small to come to any conclusions.
It's the luck of the genetic draw (with more than a bit of environmental influences tossed in). Do your kids show any signs of trouble?
Posted by Phillipa on July 2, 2007, at 20:14:17
In reply to Re: Looking at the PAST PAST » MidnightBlue, posted by sunnydays on July 1, 2007, at 22:04:07
Sunnydays doubt there are medical records anywhere going back a long time. A lot of people kept diaries and I have some from the l800's that relatives kept. Seems consumption was a common cause of death. And I had a Great Aunt during the Great Depression married a millionaire twice and actually divorced the first one not common then. But as a child I knew her and she was very sane. I think the world has changed a lot with a lot of stress and mental illnesses appearing after World War II. Or people just accepted strange behavior. And remember they also burned the Salem witches. I think the thinking at the time influenced a lot of things. TB patients were in institutions too. And with no antibiotics my Mother's Father died when she was two of pneumonia mother never remarried. So in my case all mental illness seems to be recent. But that's just in my case. Love Phillipa
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