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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by annierose on November 24, 2006, at 22:47:17
It feels as if my therapist and I have been coming from differing points of views lately. Although intellectually I understand where she is coming from, it hurts. I told her today that she keeps sterlizing our relationship by constantly reminding me that "I'm your therapist" --- ouch. She defends her remarks by reminding me she wants me to understand why she says and does the things she does ... because "she is my therapist" and this relationship has special rules and boundaries to protect the client. She went on to explain her position as "neutral".
That's it! That is what I keep bumping up against. I told her, "I feel anything but neutral here and it saddens me to think that I don't matter to you."
T: You do matter but I must maintain my position as neutral so we can explore the lens you view the world through
me: I think it's more than that. You want to remain neutral to protect yourself.
T: What do you mean?
me: If you keep me at arm's length, you are not as invested in me, and you won't take personally things I say or do. The fact you think you are neutral is so sad. I want to matter, I want you to be proud of me. I want you to care.
I was locked out of her office last week and the following day she ended our session 15 minutes early (but caught her mistake as I was getting up to leave). I brought up those examples as "evidence" of feeling pushed away and of course she apologized and explained away both incidents. If the situation was reversed, it would be a Freudian moment!!
On the one hand I hear what she is saying. This all goes back to my deep seated belief that I am unlikable and disposable. But I am saying, "I want more." I told her there is a difference between being a blank slate and being a friend to a client --- there is the great in-between area that would seem more human, more kind, more comfortable. She said, "And I try to be that. I try to be supportive to you." She said something about me being harsh (again!) and I didn't quite catch that.
I feel our relationship is so darn complicated at the moment. As much as I value her, our relationship is as frustrating as ever.
I recently opened a new business. "I wish you could have said you were happy for me, or proud me, or something." She replied, "I acknowledged your announcement." That is nothing. That is like saying "The sky is blue" it doesn't say anything about her feelings. She went on to say more kind things but I had to prompt her.
I just don't know what is going on. I know more than half of this is my "stuff" being pasted on her. But it sure doesn't feel like she is helping me with it. Although we are getting farther than we have ....
Any thoughts?
Posted by Daisym on November 25, 2006, at 0:08:19
In reply to Trying to work my way back to my therapist, posted by annierose on November 24, 2006, at 22:47:17
I'm not sure I'm thinking with my best brain tonight but I want you to know that I don't think it is "just" you and old stuff. I do think your therapist is reacting to something going on between you two, there are just too many little things to be explained away.
But the answer is always hang in there and try to keep talking about it. You have worked with her a long time and I think the good still out weighs the bad, even though this is a painful time. If you can look at what you are trying to reenact, getting comfort from someone who can't give it to you the way you want it (does that sound like your mom? or your husband?) that might be helpful.
Sometimes I feel like my therapist is trying to "teach" me something that I'm not ready to learn. And sometimes I'm just not equipped to be a grown up about the limitations of the relationship. Recently he told me that it is OK to miss someone you are close to, and we are very close. I stopped him and said, "I feel very close to you. But sometimes I remember that *we* aren't close...*I* am close. You hold yourself apart, because those are the rules. But still, it hurts."
The relationship can hurt and it is complicated. Makes me wonder if it is worth it sometimes -- and we come back to needing therapy for therapy.
Posted by annierose on November 25, 2006, at 7:30:16
In reply to Re: Trying to work my way back to my therapist » annierose, posted by Daisym on November 25, 2006, at 0:08:19
Isn't that an ill placed word?
It almost feels (as I have said all along this past month) as if she is pulling away, reminding herself that she is the neutral party.
Yes I do believe she is trying to teach me something about myself. The lesson being that how I communicate comes across as strong and often that can feel critical. I wish I could remember how she used "harsh" in a sentence again.
I tend to think of myself as more "straight forward". I am what you see. I don't pretend to be someone else.
She asked me again, "What do you want me say?"
I'm starting to think that maybe what is going on has less to do with me, and more to do with her own life. Maybe something is going on there. During her long explanation about the door getting locked last Friday, she said, "I don't know how it happened, I had my hands very full that morning .. I had my laptop, my briefcase, my lunch, some books and I was probably tired." WOW - I was her first appointment and she was already tired. And then she continued with more explaining --- more than I needed to hear about the lock and the cleaning people from the building.
Or maybe it is me and I exaccerbate her patience. Maybe I am too much.
Oh well.
Posted by Dinah on November 25, 2006, at 9:36:02
In reply to Re: Neutral? » Daisym, posted by annierose on November 25, 2006, at 7:30:16
Annierose, I don't believe in neutral in a long term relationship of any sort.
First of all, we know each other well enough to see past neutral. If you don't know how to read the person sitting opposite you several times a week for many years, and moreover one whose reactions are so subtle that you have to develop extra sensitive antennae, well...
Second, there *is* no neutral in any long term relationship. Neutral is a reaction like any other. Neutral is fine in those short term relationships where you do a bit of CBT and move on. But it's like not doing something. Not doing something is a choice of action as much as doing something is.
When we spoke of moving, my therapist was "neutral". His neutrality drove me to choose to move, because neutrality hurt. Neutrality sent a message. When we signed a contract to purchase a house, he showed emotion. He was sad. His sadness was what I needed to help me do what I wanted and what I thought was best for my family. A frank discussion with him about the effects of his neutrality, and my belief that there was no neutral, was enormously beneficial. He admitted that I was likely right. And admitted that what he was trying to do was to avoid influencing my decision with his feelings, and that what he ended up doing was influencing my decision by hiding his feelings.
I hope she learns quicker than my therapist did that her neutrality is telling you something, and it's not necessarily something from your childhood.
IMO, that's denying and minimizing the very real relationship (albeit a boundaried one) that you've built up in the years you've been together.
Just my two cents.
((((Annierose))))
Your therapist is supposed to help you at times like these, not hurt you more.
Posted by ClearSkies on November 25, 2006, at 12:33:43
In reply to Re: Neutral? » Daisym, posted by annierose on November 25, 2006, at 7:30:16
> I'm starting to think that maybe what is going on has less to do with me, and more to do with her own life. Maybe something is going on there. During her long explanation about the door getting locked last Friday, she said, "I don't know how it happened, I had my hands very full that morning .. I had my laptop, my briefcase, my lunch, some books and I was probably tired." WOW - I was her first appointment and she was already tired. And then she continued with more explaining --- more than I needed to hear about the lock and the cleaning people from the building.
>I had an absolutely awful therapist over a year ago who brought all her own dirty laundry to our appointments. Fully half of our sessions were spent with her telling ME why she was distracted, and less helpful. On several occasions I myself cut our sessions short because she was in more distress than I.
It's an extreme example of overshare; but more than that, it was her inability to put her own Stuff aside that led me to conclude that she wasn't the right for me. (OK, I think she's not the right T for anyone, I won't lie!)
Our T's have their own issues, and if they are well trained and working under optimum conditions, they can divorce themselves from their problems while they are helping us with ours. I do believe that there are times perhaps, when they are not able, for good reason, to keep their Stuff out of Our Sessions.
Maybe this is what is happening with your relationship with your T now. Maybe she identifies closely with what you are struggling with at the moment and is trying to make herself as objective as possible (that's my preferred substitute for "neutral").I admit that I cut my current (and great!) therapist some slack. I see our relationship as professional, but she also brings her personalilty, opinions, and experiences to each of our sessions. I can "read" her almost as well as she does me. It's part of what makes our relationship work, IMO.
Just my thoughts, I'm very good at projecting :-)
Posted by annierose on November 25, 2006, at 16:26:45
In reply to I think this is it » annierose, posted by ClearSkies on November 25, 2006, at 12:33:43
Hi Clear Skies -
My t doesn't bring her dirty laundry to our sessions. That is why our current sessions feel so different lately. She has firm boundaries but is usually warm and caring and supportive. She doesn't talk about herself or her family. I know nothing about her personally except that she is married with a son and daughter. And as much as I am curious, I do prefer not knowing. Because when there was a "chance" that we were travelling on the same airplane last spring, I did flip out.
But something is different. Something is going on. I just hope it's not "me". Maybe you are right that something is going on with her right now and she needs to pull the reins back.
And we have worked together long enough (5 years a long time ago, + 3 years currently) to work past this --- or so I'm hoping.
Posted by annierose on November 25, 2006, at 16:37:31
In reply to Re: Neutral? » annierose, posted by Dinah on November 25, 2006, at 9:36:02
>>>IMO, that's denying and minimizing the very real relationship (albeit a boundaried one) that you've built up in the years you've been together.<<<
I think I used those exact words on Friday, that I feel minimized. And I added "sterilize" --- she is getting so clinical on me.
Between my relationship with my husband and the lost of health insurance, both issues that I needed her support and/or shoulder to cry on, I received complete "acceptance" regarding dropping a weekly session and denial regarding my marriage.
Since I last wrote, I have since contacted my husband's benefits department and believe it or not, they do have private insurance (called "wrap around insurance") that kicks in once the regular PPO depletes itself. It's all good, and they will pay for 60% of each session BUT they only write checks once each quarter. So I am going 'almost' 3 times a week --- she is on vacation part of next week and the week following and off altogether the week between Christmas and New Year's.
Your point resonates with me. I'll tuck your thoughts away and discuss them with her on Monday. As you know, she is very important to me and an excellent therapist IMO.I go into each session hopeful we will work this out and I find that we are taking baby steps towards this goal. Thank you!
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