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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by curtm on July 19, 2006, at 8:29:31
Depending on my mood (being bipolar) the same event could make me either depressed or manic. I have trouble making adjustments especially in upsetting yet trivial situations. Framing?
Can anyone give me more examples or techniques to *re-route* my thinking into less triggered thoughts?
Posted by Dinah on July 19, 2006, at 8:30:38
In reply to Still need help framing, posted by curtm on July 19, 2006, at 8:29:31
Can you give an example of something that needs to be reframed?
Posted by curtm on July 19, 2006, at 9:23:42
In reply to Re: Still need help framing, posted by Dinah on July 19, 2006, at 8:30:38
Some examples I guess...
The kids sitting on the couch in wet swimsuits while my wife doesn't say anything.
Over-reacting when the kids don't pick up after themselves or don't take care of things.
Getting defensive when my wife suggests getting the cooler ready for the lake, but I am busy getting the boat ready.
Posted by Dinah on July 19, 2006, at 9:54:25
In reply to Re: Still need help framing » Dinah, posted by curtm on July 19, 2006, at 9:23:42
It's probably what you add on top of the bare bones that you need to work on.
For example, when the kids are in their wet bathing suits on the sofa, do you remember all the times your wife is too lenient on them, piling grievance upon grievance in your mind? Do you think something like "She *always* does this." Our family counselor was very big on keeping the present moment in the present moment. Stopping ourselves when we add thoughts to the basic ones. So that if the kids are sitting on the sofa in their bathing suits, you just say something like "Ok, kids. Up and into your everyday clothes. Race you to the sofa when we're all changed."
When your kids don't pick up, do you do the same thing? Remember all the times they don't pick up, add thoughts of how your wife never makes them pick up, and think of dire consequences down the road for learning such irresponsibility at such a young age? My husband has a tendency to do the latter. Think that if my son doesn't pay attention when he's talking to him that he'll end up not paying attention when a lifeguard tells him something and will slip and fall into the pool and drown.
I think in order to reframe, you have to first be aware of what thoughts go through your head when something happens. Next time can you note them? Or do you already have some idea? Do you tend to see each event as confirmation of a continuing grievance? Do you foresee terrible consequences from it?
Posted by curtm on July 19, 2006, at 10:36:01
In reply to Re: Still need help framing » curtm, posted by Dinah on July 19, 2006, at 9:54:25
What happens is it causes me problems. I have to pick up the stuff. I have to clean the stuff. I have to fix the stuff. I can get more new stuff done if someone (everyone) else has some common sense. I am trying to teach them something too, like you said your DH does. I know you can't teach common sense- it is purely instinctive, but they gotta catch on sometime.
Seems like most of my troubles revolve around home life. It is always such a madhouse. sigh
Posted by Dinah on July 19, 2006, at 11:19:03
In reply to Re: Still need help framing » Dinah, posted by curtm on July 19, 2006, at 10:36:01
But my point is that you aren't thinking about just this instant, right? You're thinking of all the times that came before, and what it has cost you? And you're thinking of all the times in the future? Maybe reframing in this case means narrowing the focus to just this time, and dealing with just this time.
Kids forget. They don't have common sense, the way adults define it. They don't have the same priorities and they don't have the same capacity for sustained attention or for planning. You can model common sense, and you can make sure they do what they should (with reminders, explicit instructions, and calm explanations of why you're asking), but part of that is developmental and won't come until their brains are ready.
So redefining your expectations may be another reframing.
How many kids to you have? I can see where more than one or two could seem like a madhouse. :)
Posted by curtm on July 19, 2006, at 11:26:22
In reply to Re: Still need help framing, posted by Dinah on July 19, 2006, at 11:19:03
I have three boys. 4, 11, 13. And yes I do hang on to things like you say, or reflect on past or project to future. My wife has the ability you speak of. I guess I can try that (The "I WAS born yesterday" technique?) haha
Posted by curtm on July 19, 2006, at 11:27:37
In reply to Re: Still need help framing, posted by Dinah on July 19, 2006, at 11:19:03
Posted by daisym on July 19, 2006, at 13:41:36
In reply to Re: Still need help framing, posted by curtm on July 19, 2006, at 11:26:22
I have three boys too. So I speak from experience. Reframing:
Thought: "I shouldn't have to tell them not to sit on the sofa in wet suits, my wife should step in and tell them."
reframe:--"It bothers me that the kids are sitting on the sofa in wet suits, not my wife. So if it bothers ME, I'M the one who will need to speak up."
Thought: "I've told them before -- they should remember to not leave their stuff, to not sit on the sofa in wet suits, etc."
Reframe: "Boys live from moment to moment with good intentions. Unless there is a consequence that makes an impact, the trail they leave is invisible to them. If it bothers ME, I need to make their trails visible to them."
You seem to be struggling with an age old parental dilema of how do I get the kids to do what I want without having to constantly ask them. The honest answer is you have to constantly ask them. Constantly and consistently and calmly and politely but immediately. Interrupt them over and over again to get called back to picking up their glass, their socks, their nintendo controls, their plates, etc. I give this speech to mine: "I hate to nag. But the mess bugs me and I don't think it is fair that I clean it up when I didn't make it. So if you leave it, I'm going to ask you to stop what you are doing and immediately pick stuff up. I don't care if you have plans, friends or are on a cool level. You'll need to do what I ask right then." That way they have warning and full understanding of your expectations. The next step I took is if they left a mess and disappeared, whatever got left out disappeared. If they left the dishes out, they "volunteered" for the dishes that night. If they left the bathroom a mess, they "volunteered" to clean the whole thing.
Think about what you are doing, not saying. If you fume but clean up after them, they are learning to leave it for dad.
Truthfully this approach works pretty well for me but I also have "reframed" things for myself by accepting that kids are messy, it is their house too and I want them to like being home. So I don't have a ton of rules, making it easier to follow the ones I really care about.
As far as your wife goes...can you answer (sweetly) "sorry hun, I'm busy with the boat. Can you go ahead and do the cooler? Have the boys help you?" Sometimes we assume that someone else notices that we are busy and they haven't. Or they have in their head a different list of priorities that conflict with ours. If you feel a pull to do everything, you have to look at yourself. And if you are wishing your wife is a mind reader, you also have to look at yourself. This is another one of those places that being a martyr doesn't work. If you feel put upon, but say "yes" instead of "no" it seems like you are expecting the other person to read your outrage and feel guilty and take back their request. This rarely works.
The hardest thing to accept about reframing things is when you feel justified in your way or your outlook...that "if only the OTHER person would" type of thinking. You are not going to change another person's basic personality or they way they plan/don't plan, clean/don't clean; organize/don't organize. Like Dinah said, sometimes you have to change your expectations.
I hope this doesn't sound too harsh. I do understand the frustrations you are expressing.
Daisy
Posted by curtm on July 19, 2006, at 14:12:13
In reply to Re: Still need help framing - long » curtm, posted by daisym on July 19, 2006, at 13:41:36
This is the end of the thread.
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