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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by KaraS on May 21, 2005, at 1:18:18
It's a computer CBT program that uses Artificial Intelligence. It's only $40. I wonder if it's any good.
Posted by Jazzed on May 21, 2005, at 8:39:05
In reply to Anyone know anything about this CBT program?, posted by KaraS on May 21, 2005, at 1:18:18
> It's a computer CBT program that uses Artificial Intelligence. It's only $40. I wonder if it's any good.
>
> http://www.maiw.com/Sounds interesting, but of course it can't replace the person to person warmth that comes from a real T. It might drive me nuts to see the responses that are generated because they would come to feel so "artificial" then if I actually heard them from a T. LOL
Jazzed
Posted by Jazzed on May 21, 2005, at 8:47:09
In reply to Anyone know anything about this CBT program?, posted by KaraS on May 21, 2005, at 1:18:18
I Googled and did a search for computer aided psychotherapy, and got a surprising # of results, might be worth try, since it's not terribly expensive. No dependence or transference issues, that's for sure. Geeze, I sure hope our kids dont' have this as their only option when they're grown!
Jazzed
Posted by badhaircut on May 21, 2005, at 15:52:01
In reply to Anyone know anything about this CBT program?, posted by KaraS on May 21, 2005, at 1:18:18
irishcatholic posted briefly about it last year:
<quote>
February 2, 2004, at 11:26:31
I got the software for "free" with the purchase of the book "Good Mood" by Julian Simon.
You have to order the software after buying the book.
The book is quite good also IMHO.There is nothing magic about the software, it basically leads you thru CBT. For me the analogy might be exercise. When I go out walking, I tend to slow down as I get tired. If I use my treadmill, it forces me to keep a pace and work harder.
<unquote> from http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20040131/msgs/308496.htmlI'm surprised it's still being sold. They haven't updated their web site in 5 years and Ken Colby died in 2001!
-bhc
Posted by KaraS on May 21, 2005, at 18:24:16
In reply to Re: Anyone know anything about this CBT program?, posted by Jazzed on May 21, 2005, at 8:47:09
> I Googled and did a search for computer aided psychotherapy, and got a surprising # of results, might be worth try, since it's not terribly expensive. No dependence or transference issues, that's for sure. Geeze, I sure hope our kids dont' have this as their only option when they're grown!
>
> Jazzed
Maybe it's good as an adjunctive therapy. One good thing about it is that it is available more often and especially in time of a crisis.K
Posted by KaraS on May 21, 2005, at 18:26:14
In reply to maiw » KaraS, posted by badhaircut on May 21, 2005, at 15:52:01
> irishcatholic posted briefly about it last year:
>
> <quote>
> February 2, 2004, at 11:26:31
> I got the software for "free" with the purchase of the book "Good Mood" by Julian Simon.
> You have to order the software after buying the book.
> The book is quite good also IMHO.
>
> There is nothing magic about the software, it basically leads you thru CBT. For me the analogy might be exercise. When I go out walking, I tend to slow down as I get tired. If I use my treadmill, it forces me to keep a pace and work harder.
> <unquote> from http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20040131/msgs/308496.html
>
> I'm surprised it's still being sold. They haven't updated their web site in 5 years and Ken Colby died in 2001!
>
> -bhc
Thanks for posting that. I think that's a fairly positive review if it helped the poster to keep pace and work harder. I haven't had much success trying to do CBT on my own so this might be a helpful option.K
Posted by alexandra_k on May 21, 2005, at 21:37:57
In reply to Anyone know anything about this CBT program?, posted by KaraS on May 21, 2005, at 1:18:18
Colby...
The name rang a bell.
Click.
He made a program 'Parry the Paranoid'.
It was a language program that was supposed to emulate a paranoid schizophrenic.The turing test was a test that was made up by Alan Turing (the guy behind the notion of turing machines - which can compute anything computable). He thought that a test for an intelligent program was basically whether it could fool people into thinking they were conversing with a human being and not just a computer program.
Some people say that the Parry program passed.
It fooled a number of psychiatrists.(People have joked that that tells us more about the intelligence of psychiatrists than it does about Parry's intelligence).
Actually it was criticised on a number of grounds.
Ethics prevented the psychiatrists from asking certain sorts of questions (they had to judge whether they were conversing with a real person or not).
Also, Parry could resort to stock paranoid sounding phrases when the program didnt' know how to handle certain questions.That led someone to say 'I've made a computer program that is a perfect model of a subject with autism. You turn it on and it just sits there and ignores you'.
Hmm.
So... I asked a while back if anyone could find the Parry program online. I couldn't find it.
I wanted to pit parry against eliza the (Rogerian) psychotherapist.
Here is a link to Eliza:
http://www.manifestation.com/neurotoys/eliza.php3
It is an old program now.
I imagine this new CBT one would be a bit better...
But the limits of AI should be apparant...
Posted by badhaircut on May 21, 2005, at 21:59:44
In reply to Re: Anyone know anything about this CBT program? » KaraS, posted by alexandra_k on May 21, 2005, at 21:37:57
LOL. Actual transcript from moments ago:
> Hello, I am Eliza.
* Hello, Eliza. I am Bob.
> Did you come to me because you are Bob?
* Eliza, do you know Parry?
> We were discussing you, not me.
* Parry is jealous of you.
> Oh... ?The first personal computer I ever saw ran off a cassette tape, and Eliza was the best thing on it! If you find the Parry program online, a_k, let us know.
-bhc
Posted by badhaircut on May 21, 2005, at 22:09:07
In reply to Re: Anyone know anything about this CBT program? » KaraS, posted by alexandra_k on May 21, 2005, at 21:37:57
[This is from Ken Colby's New York Times obituary]
Eliza and the paranoid Parry eventually met for a "talk," executing different programs. One exchange went something like this:
PARRY In my opinion, you have a one-track mind.
ELIZA What makes you think I have a one-track mind?
PARRY I used to go to the track every week.
ELIZA What does that suggest to you?
PARRY I avoid racetracks now because the races are fixed.
ELIZA Is that the real reason?
PARRY I'd rather not discuss it.
ELIZA What else would you like to discuss?
PARRY That's something I don't want to go into.
Posted by alexandra_k on May 21, 2005, at 23:43:41
In reply to Eliza met Parry » alexandra_k, posted by badhaircut on May 21, 2005, at 22:09:07
Apparantly part of Parry's paranoia is to be a bit obsessed with horse racing and the Mafia. If he doesn't know what to say he has stock responses along those lines. Same with Eliza and her 'we are talking about you, not me' line.
You are a very stupid program
> how would you like to be a very stupid program?Heh heh. Good point.
I asked her if she wanted to be a guest expert but she thought that was about her and not me and so she didn't want to talk about it...
But then she is Rogerian, maybe you would expect a straight answer out of a CBT therapist???
Heh heh I think the package is worth buying solely to check out the program.
If you get it could you let us know???
Posted by KaraS on May 22, 2005, at 13:06:05
In reply to Re: Anyone know anything about this CBT program? » KaraS, posted by alexandra_k on May 21, 2005, at 21:37:57
> Colby...
> The name rang a bell.
> Click.
> He made a program 'Parry the Paranoid'.
> It was a language program that was supposed to emulate a paranoid schizophrenic.
>
> The turing test was a test that was made up by Alan Turing (the guy behind the notion of turing machines - which can compute anything computable). He thought that a test for an intelligent program was basically whether it could fool people into thinking they were conversing with a human being and not just a computer program.
>
> Some people say that the Parry program passed.
> It fooled a number of psychiatrists.
>
> (People have joked that that tells us more about the intelligence of psychiatrists than it does about Parry's intelligence).
>
> Actually it was criticised on a number of grounds.
> Ethics prevented the psychiatrists from asking certain sorts of questions (they had to judge whether they were conversing with a real person or not).
> Also, Parry could resort to stock paranoid sounding phrases when the program didnt' know how to handle certain questions.
>
> That led someone to say 'I've made a computer program that is a perfect model of a subject with autism. You turn it on and it just sits there and ignores you'.
>
> Hmm.
>
> So... I asked a while back if anyone could find the Parry program online. I couldn't find it.
>
> I wanted to pit parry against eliza the (Rogerian) psychotherapist.
>
> Here is a link to Eliza:
>
> http://www.manifestation.com/neurotoys/eliza.php3
>
> It is an old program now.
> I imagine this new CBT one would be a bit better...
> But the limits of AI should be apparant...
OK, maybe not such a good idea...
Posted by caraher on May 25, 2005, at 3:45:47
In reply to Anyone know anything about this CBT program?, posted by KaraS on May 21, 2005, at 1:18:18
There's a free web-based CBT walk-through available at
http://moodgym.anu.edu.au
This is the end of the thread.
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