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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Aphrodite on March 9, 2005, at 13:29:48
I travelled back to my childhood home and schools about an hour out of town for the first time in many, many years. I had this fear I was delusional, and needed to sort of "pinch" myself about all the abuse. What a reality check! I became so terribly flooded and confused and realized the source of a lot of it was that I was afraid my T didn't "get it" or believe me or whatever. I panicked. It was a mix of old hurt and new hurts, and the pain was so intense, I emergency paged my T for the first time. For a few minutes after he called me back while in my car, I just asked him to sit with me. I started crying and saying that I didn't feel believed by him. He seemed distant, said psychobabble validating things like, "That must feel terrible to think I don't believe," when I really needed reassurance that he did. Realizing his call was making things worse, I ended the conversation after he extracted a promise that I would call him when I returned home and described the route back to my house to him.
When I called him after I got home, he already realized why we hadn't connected. Then, he shocked me and asked to take the road trip with me. "Let's go together -- take me to the places, let me feel all of that pain with you. I know you need me to understand and that way I will." I glossed over it, and he insisted and said, "It just came over me that this is the answer." We often do a meditation where he and I walk, I am a child, and he accompanies me on my solitary trip across the farm where I went when bad things happened. He said, "I want to really take that walk. It's important for me to understand."
I'm touched, overwhelmed, and scared to death at the same time. Any advice? He continues to remind me to let him know when the time is right. On one hand, I think it would be incredibly healing since isolation and loneliness is one of the major themes of our work. On the other hand, I just think that he already gives way too much.
Posted by messadivoce on March 9, 2005, at 14:47:17
In reply to Going to the scene of the crime . . ., posted by Aphrodite on March 9, 2005, at 13:29:48
Aphrodite, I am so touched by your T's offer. I know it would probably be difficult but I really think that it might be incredibly healing. I know that isolation was a theme in my childhood and my work with my T, and to know that I wasn't alone with my memories anymore was very healing. When I think of those things, I think of him too, and how comforting he was. I would encouage you to take as much time as you need, but to do it. I have a feeling that maybe you might reach a whole new level of trust and intimacy with your T.
Voce
Posted by partlycloudy on March 9, 2005, at 14:50:32
In reply to Going to the scene of the crime . . ., posted by Aphrodite on March 9, 2005, at 13:29:48
I think that allowing him to physically take that walk with you - when you are ready - would make a very big difference in how he can help you. Sitting in an office and relating memories in words can't completely convey the pain and anxiety the memories cause.
And I don't think that it's too far a measure for a T to take, but travelling to this place with you. Therapists each have their own way of working and getting to understand their clients. I had one therapist who had me bring in all sorts of photographs I had from my childhood, and she was immediately able to grasp the remoteness my mother displayed, just from the pictures. I was amazed, and completely validated by the experience.
with great concern and good wishes,
partlycloudy
Posted by Shortelise on March 9, 2005, at 14:52:01
In reply to Going to the scene of the crime . . ., posted by Aphrodite on March 9, 2005, at 13:29:48
Aphrodite,
It sounds like you are trying to take care of your T. It's his job to help you. He wants it that way. If he feels that going to that place with you is the best way, that means that's what he thinks is best for you, and it's his job to do what is best for you.
Or is it that you are afraid of feeling too beholden to him?
I'd like to put my hand on your shoulder, just lightly, and keep it there while you go through these things. A little ShortAngel all your own!
ShortE
Posted by Aphrodite on March 9, 2005, at 15:46:20
In reply to Re: Going to the scene of the crime . . ., posted by messadivoce on March 9, 2005, at 14:47:17
> Aphrodite, I am so touched by your T's offer. I know it would probably be difficult but I really think that it might be incredibly healing. I know that isolation was a theme in my childhood and my work with my T, and to know that I wasn't alone with my memories anymore was very healing. When I think of those things, I think of him too, and how comforting he was. I would encouage you to take as much time as you need, but to do it. I have a feeling that maybe you might reach a whole new level of trust and intimacy with your T.
> Voce
Ooops, I think in another thread I referred to your T as a female. Or did you have a male before the female? As you can see, I'm easily baffled.Anyway, as you obviously understand, it hurts so much to be alone in all those memories, and the healing comes when he can break that isolation, but it doesn't really last for me, and old doubts and fears return -- then, I am alone all over again.
I guess actually walking with him across the field would be a whole other experience, to speak to a caring person from that place. Or, I could have a psychotic break. But, if I am going to have one, I guess it would be good to have a professional with me.
I'm glad your fond memories of your T's help linger for you.
Posted by Aphrodite on March 9, 2005, at 15:49:10
In reply to Re: Going to the scene of the crime . . . » Aphrodite, posted by partlycloudy on March 9, 2005, at 14:50:32
> I think that allowing him to physically take that walk with you - when you are ready - would make a very big difference in how he can help you. Sitting in an office and relating memories in words can't completely convey the pain and anxiety the memories cause.
> And I don't think that it's too far a measure for a T to take, but travelling to this place with you. Therapists each have their own way of working and getting to understand their clients. I had one therapist who had me bring in all sorts of photographs I had from my childhood, and she was immediately able to grasp the remoteness my mother displayed, just from the pictures. I was amazed, and completely validated by the experience.
> with great concern and good wishes,
> partlycloudy
>
Photographs are a great idea, I think. Then the T can visualize the people you speak about. He had me bring in photos early on too and like you said, could glean a lot from them.As for his style as you mentioned, he really prides himself on being "flexible" and "out-of-the-box" so I'm not totally surprised. I guess I'm surprised he cares that much to be that way for me. It still blows me away sometimes.
Thanks for your warm wishes.
Posted by Aphrodite on March 9, 2005, at 15:54:44
In reply to Re: Going to the scene of the crime . . . » Aphrodite, posted by Shortelise on March 9, 2005, at 14:52:01
> Aphrodite,
>
> It sounds like you are trying to take care of your T. It's his job to help you. He wants it that way. If he feels that going to that place with you is the best way, that means that's what he thinks is best for you, and it's his job to do what is best for you.I ALWAYS take care of him, as I take care of everyone in my life. This is frustrating to him -- he always snaps that I need to trust him that he knows what he is doing. I lament that I'll use up all his generosity and he'll be burned out when I *really* need him, and he replies that I really need him now, and he said, "I'm so far away from burnout I don't know what to say." Later, he told me that he was trying to figure out what the opposite of burnout was, and he said that he settled on being at peace with the amount of time/care he gives me. That was comforting. (But I still want to help him back off from me:)
>
> Or is it that you are afraid of feeling too beholden to him?
This is true -- the lopsided, one-way nature of therapy is just something I'll never be cool with. This would tip those scales off any chart!>
> I'd like to put my hand on your shoulder, just lightly, and keep it there while you go through these things. A little ShortAngel all your own!
>Oh, how very sweet!!! I already feel it, ShortE. Can you go on the walk, too? (On my shoulder, in spirit of course!) Thank you!
Posted by TamaraJ on March 9, 2005, at 18:12:43
In reply to Going to the scene of the crime . . ., posted by Aphrodite on March 9, 2005, at 13:29:48
The only thing I can think is that by your letting him "take that walk" with you it is you that is giving to him, not the other way around (if that makes sense). By letting him accompany you on that journey, you are giving him a gift that will help him continue to help you.
Tamara
Posted by Aphrodite on March 9, 2005, at 19:06:50
In reply to Re: Going to the scene of the crime . . . » Aphrodite, posted by TamaraJ on March 9, 2005, at 18:12:43
> The only thing I can think is that by your letting him "take that walk" with you it is you that is giving to him, not the other way around (if that makes sense). By letting him accompany you on that journey, you are giving him a gift that will help him continue to help you.
>
> Tamara
>
What a nice way of reframing it. Thank you for sharing that insight.
Posted by daisym on March 9, 2005, at 19:45:14
In reply to Re: Going to the scene of the crime . . . » TamaraJ, posted by Aphrodite on March 9, 2005, at 19:06:50
I think his offer is really generous and amazing. If I can I'd like to offer a few thoughts on the other side...just to make sure you think this through.
There is safety in your therapist's office and while we project our feelings and fantasies on them as we relive the memories with them, it is still a very clear frame within which to work. By becoming part of the memories, will this lessen the safety you feel with him? Will his presence somehow become threatening? If, in real life, you wish to cry, or hide or be comforted, can he do that without crossing the boundaries into your "real" life? Therapy is already such a confusing endeavor, wanting to be taken care of, wanting to take care of them, wanting all of it to never have happened.
Given your recent response with seeing him out in the real world, how will it feel to drive there and back with him? Will it all be therapy? Will you make small talk?
Please don't misunderstand. I'm completely in favor of unique supports that facilitate healing or break throughs. But I'm not sure you've done enough work on the intensity of all of this (look at how you reacted) to not have this be harmful instead of helpful. You MUST guard against being retraumatized.
I think it is pretty normal to reach the conclusion that your therapist doesn't believe you, or that you don't believe you. Sometimes we become so unsure of ourselves because it is all so overwhelming and unbelievable. I'm glad he figured out what to say so that you could reconnect.
Whatever you decide, the offer itself is amazing and something to be cherished.
Posted by namaste on March 9, 2005, at 20:21:59
In reply to Going to the scene of the crime . . ., posted by Aphrodite on March 9, 2005, at 13:29:48
Amazing offer but would be very difficult for me. I am very close to my therapist, i am one who tells all and she is very kind and we fit well together but the thought of even being in the car with her makes me panic! I am not even really sure why?That is hard work you a doing. May you have peace in your heart.
Posted by Aphrodite on March 9, 2005, at 21:32:36
In reply to Re: Going to the scene of the crime . . . » Aphrodite, posted by daisym on March 9, 2005, at 19:45:14
Oh, I was way ahead of you there, Daisy. I've thought of a thousand ways it could go very, very wrong. I was thinking that it could help because my progress has been so slow. This could really speed things up or bring it to a grinding halt. And yes, I already feel healed by the offer -- in some ways, I think that may be enough for now.
Posted by Aphrodite on March 9, 2005, at 21:35:26
In reply to Re: Going to the scene of the crime . . ., posted by namaste on March 9, 2005, at 20:21:59
> Amazing offer but would be very difficult for me. I am very close to my therapist, i am one who tells all and she is very kind and we fit well together but the thought of even being in the car with her makes me panic! I am not even really sure why?
You know, my initial anxiety had nothing to do with what we would actually uncover emotionally. It was, Oh no, who drives? What if I drive, then can't drive, and then does he drive my car? Do I play music? Do we chit chat about the weather because you can't do therapy on a road trip. I'm SO anxiety ridden about the smallest of things.
>>>That is hard work you a doing. May you have peace in your heart.
Thank you so much for the kind sentiment!
Posted by Tamar on March 10, 2005, at 14:38:46
In reply to Re: Funny thing . . ., posted by Aphrodite on March 9, 2005, at 21:35:26
It's probably a good idea to let him drive there and back. He'd probably agree that you wouldn't be in a fit state to drive back, so it makes sense for him to do all the driving.How long would the drive take? If it's fairly short you might be able to manage with chit-chat, but if it's a long drive you might want some relaxing music. Especially on the way back.
The other thing I wondered was about the support you'd have for the first few hours and days afterwards. You could become quite distressed for a while. What support can your T offer you?
I'm sure if you talk about your concerns with him, even if you think they seem trivial, he will have ideas about how to deal with them.
I hope you will come to a decision that feels right for you.
Tamar
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