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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 5 of 5. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on February 18, 2005, at 15:32:35
I suppose I feel good that he offered.
He'd like me to keep to the schedule that we had worked out, but I don't think I can afford it. So he offered to do the third session a week at half price. But I refused.
That's one boundary I don't want to cross. I'm afraid he'd feel resentful. He says that if he offered, he'd have no right to feel resentful. I asked since when do feelings listen to rights. He said that if I noticed him being resentful, we could talk about it at that point. I don't even want to get to that point. I guess he understood that.
We also discussed my conviction that I don't think I'm worth seeing for the standard insurance reimbursement rate. :) He told me of course that wasn't true, and mentioned that I still didn't trust him, did I.
I guess I don't trust him. Not in that area.
He mentioned a few other alternatives.
I agreed to come in and talk to him about it. I'll admit that the reason is that if he thought it was important enough to reduce his rate, I was intrigued as to why. I think he's offered all he's got in the area of work, and that third work themed session per week isn't really worth the time or money. I guess I'd better work on my presentation before I see him. :P
I forgot to tell him his offer meant a lot to me. I'll try to remember for next time. And I'm not usually outright rude, so I wonder why I forgot.
Oh well.
I was also left feeling extremely anxious, enough that I had to take a rare daytime Klonopin, and I'm not sure why such a nice discussion would have left me feeling so anxious.
Posted by mair on February 18, 2005, at 17:22:54
In reply to Therapist offered, but I refused., posted by Dinah on February 18, 2005, at 15:32:35
Once when I thought I was going to lose my insurance benefits, my T instantly offered to see me at a reduced rate. I had the same kneejerk reaction you did.
My fear is that I would always be thinking that it was in the back of her mind. So everytime I mentioned going away for the weekend, or going on a vacation, she'd be thinking I was doing that with her money.
Interestingly, she was able to move an appointment around for me the other day because she had a client who had just gone from once a week to once every other week. I assumed this was someone tapering down and made some glib comment about therapy actually having an end for some people. She said it was against her recommendation - a money issue, not a question of not needing therapy. And the client refused her offer to try to work something out which would allow him to keep coming every week.
It's still nice that your T offered.
Mair
Posted by fallsfall on February 18, 2005, at 17:30:28
In reply to Therapist offered, but I refused., posted by Dinah on February 18, 2005, at 15:32:35
> I suppose I feel good that he offered.
>
> He'd like me to keep to the schedule that we had worked out, but I don't think I can afford it. So he offered to do the third session a week at half price. But I refused.*** I find this very interesting. You have said *many* times that he charges you more than other people and that you think that isn't fair. You have said *many, many* times that he is in this only for the money. Yet, when he says that he will reduce his fee so that you can get what he thinks you need, you will have nothing to do with that.
>
> That's one boundary I don't want to cross. I'm afraid he'd feel resentful. He says that if he offered, he'd have no right to feel resentful. I asked since when do feelings listen to rights. He said that if I noticed him being resentful, we could talk about it at that point. I don't even want to get to that point. I guess he understood that.*** I understand about the resentful part. I offer things that I think are "needed", but because I think that something will not get done if I don't. That doesn't keep me from feeling resentful that *I* had to offer it instead of someone else doing it (i.e. the person whose responsibility it really is to do it). I would hope that your therapist wouldn't be as confused about this resentment thing as I am... I would hope that he *wouldn't* feel resentful if he offered.
>
> We also discussed my conviction that I don't think I'm worth seeing for the standard insurance reimbursement rate. :) He told me of course that wasn't true, and mentioned that I still didn't trust him, did I.
>*** Why do you think that you are more "trouble" than the average patient? Or is that it? What do you mean "worth seeing"? What makes you so special that he would need to have a whole separate set of rules for just you?
> I guess I don't trust him. Not in that area.
>
*** Are you thinking that he will think you are too much trouble for the money he gets and kick you out? Don't you think he knows you well enough to predict whether he'll be unhappy with a new arrangement?> He mentioned a few other alternatives.
>
> I agreed to come in and talk to him about it. I'll admit that the reason is that if he thought it was important enough to reduce his rate, I was intrigued as to why. I think he's offered all he's got in the area of work, and that third work themed session per week isn't really worth the time or money. I guess I'd better work on my presentation before I see him. :P*** Perhaps he is thinking that his schedule isn't full, and that getting half price from you is more than getting nothing. Perhaps he's just being pragmatic.
*** If the two of you can agree on the number of sessions that are appropriate, then the money issues might be clearer. I guess I'd be interested to know if you think the 3rd session isn't worth the time, or if it isn't worth the money. Those seem like very different situations to me. If you think 3 sessions would be helpful, would you feel better if this 1/2 price sale were for a limited time (3 months/6 months)? Then he could back out of it at the end of the time without you feeling he was changing his mind (because you would have set it up that way).
>
> I forgot to tell him his offer meant a lot to me. I'll try to remember for next time. And I'm not usually outright rude, so I wonder why I forgot.
>
*** That does sound very unlike you.> Oh well.
>
> I was also left feeling extremely anxious, enough that I had to take a rare daytime Klonopin, and I'm not sure why such a nice discussion would have left me feeling so anxious.*** Because you don't want to be sick enough to need more therapy than you can afford?
Posted by mair on February 18, 2005, at 17:51:43
In reply to Therapist offered, but I refused., posted by Dinah on February 18, 2005, at 15:32:35
I agree with everything fallsfall said. You have always talked about him seeing you only because you pay full freight.
It seems to me that you've been operating on the assumption for years that your therapist looked at you strictly as a source of income, and an annoying one at that. Lately it sounds to me that he's been demonstrating how very much he cares about you. Fallsfall's theory about why you're so anxious sounds very plausible. But maybe you're anxious too because it's anxiety producing to have to change your view of how and what he feels for you.
Mair
Posted by Dinah on February 18, 2005, at 22:37:41
In reply to Re: Therapist offered, but I refused. » Dinah, posted by mair on February 18, 2005, at 17:51:43
Mair, it certainly occurred to me that that would be one reason not to accept his offer. I'd never feel free to mention anything involving spending money again for fear of what would run through his mind.
And definitely today shook my perceptions of our relationship a bit, as it would never have occurred to me that he would make an offer like that. I think he does really care about me.
But I also think there are a lot of issues wrapped up in money.
I think I like feeling that I'm entitled to good service because I'm paying good money, about one and a half times what he gets for much of his work.
I think I like feeling like I'm giving to him in the only way I can, monetarily. Because the therapeutic relationship is for my benefit. And while I suppose I try to please him in non-monetary ways, it's the monetary ways that I feel most certain that I'm succeeding at.
I think to some extent I like feeling the resentment I feel over paying more than many of his clients, because it gives me a reason to keep a certain distance. There's altogether too little distance on my part, and anything that helps that has to be good.
And maybe as much as I want to believe he really does care for me (and as much as he is beginning to convince me), there is another part that's putting up red lights and sirens. It's not safe to believe someone cares about you, because it increases the chance that you'll be hurt. And truthfully, he'll never care about me as much as I care about him, and I am going to be hurt from time to time about that.
Perhaps most of all, I want him to like me and feel positive feelings about me. I don't think that's an ongoing issue in my life. Quite the contrary. But I think from time to time I care about someone in a nonreciprocal sort of way, and that leads me to want to please them. Playing the parent/child scenario over and over again. The sad part is that I like that scenario. It made me feel safe.
I think a lot of the last part is caught up in that concept of "amae" I'm so excited about in "The Anatomy of Dependency". (Watch I end up hating the book and eating my words.)
And I'll bet there are layers and layers that haven't even occurred to me yet. Money is very very meaningful.
But naturally, I'm not going to discuss any of this with my therapist. :)
This is the end of the thread.
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