![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 31. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by 64bowtie on December 4, 2004, at 14:17:48
All,
We can't be curious in the foreground, and be in anxiety/panic at the same time.
We can't be curious in the foreground, and have an OCD event at the same time.
We can't be curious in the foreground, and have a Major Depressive Episode at the same time.
We can't be curious in the foreground, and be grumbling, griping, gossipping and complaining about [nouns] => people, places, things, ideas.
We can, however, use out-of-body guided imagery in the background, and watch ourselves do these things in the foreground. My Mom died at age 72 not knowing this fact!
Curiosity is an emotion. Curiosity is the only emotion that can't be extiguished from the outside, or by other people. Only we can turn off our own curiosity.
Curiosity inevitably leads to discovery and gets stronger with practice.
Since what we don't even know, that we don't even know, and can't even guess at, is almost everything in the universe, being curious can be our "spaceship" for discovery of the new [nouns].
What we need to use to fix ourselves, is out there somewhere, if, and only if, we remain curious...
Rod
PS: Denial-and-indecision-together are sins against the self, portrayed as certainty. Caution: certainty does not always mean denial and indecision caused it. Denial-and-indecision-together, do seem always to be veiled in an air of certainty, though. Additional caution: Certainty..... isn't! ...and certainty flys in the face of our curiosity
Posted by just plain jane on December 4, 2004, at 19:02:35
"Curiosity is an emotion. Curiosity is the only emotion that can't be extiguished from the outside, or by other people. Only we can turn off our own curiosity."
Rod, I am curious as to what brings you to the conclusion that "curiosity is the only emotion that can't be extinguished from the outside"?
I believe that we are born with the capacity for all emotions.
I believe when we freely allow those emotions to surface and feel them and deal with them, we learn to direct them, control them, if you will.
If I get angry, no one on the outside is going to extinguish my anger. They may suceed in calming me down and helping me refocus elsewhere, but the anger remains.
This is the same for faith. Not only in the context of God, but just faith in general. To me it is not "I wish I had more faith", because I have faith, it, too resides within the deepest recesses of my soul. And my faith is strong, because I exercise it.
Patience, same thing.
These emotions can be shared, or exercised with, another person, but I, and only I, decide whether that sharing will happen.
When I have unpleasant emotions, it is time to exercise the pleasant ones, to counter the attack on my psyche, and therefore, control my behavior.
Others have tried, my entire life, to extinguish me through manipulation of my emotions. When I realized that "Hey, I am the one who owns these things", I realized I can just close my tiny little mental/emotional door on them and rely on the better emotions to carry me through, lift me up, and remove me from the situation.
just plain point of view of jane
Posted by Gabbix2 on December 4, 2004, at 20:09:25
In reply to ...our spaceship for discovery..., posted by 64bowtie on December 4, 2004, at 14:17:48
> All,
>
>
> We can't be curious in the foreground, and have a Major Depressive Episode at the same time.
Rod, what information did you use to conclude that? It's not something anyone I know who has had actual experience with depression would say, or even the conclusion of anyone I know who has casually researched it. I feel almost redundant having to mention to you that Authors, Artists, Presidents, and modern day and historical philosophers had/have depression and continued to think and create (something which requires curiousity) during their episodes.I'm sure that curiousity is also able to be in the foreground with other conditions you mentioned, but as I don't have personal experience with them,obviously I can't make that judgment.
Posted by gardenergirl on December 4, 2004, at 22:39:55
In reply to ...our spaceship for discovery..., posted by 64bowtie on December 4, 2004, at 14:17:48
> We can't be curious in the foreground, and have a Major Depressive Episode at the same time.
Rod, I can only speak to this one personally, as well. I am currently in a major depressive episode in partial remission. I am curious all the time. It's part of who I am. I don't think of curiousity as an emotion at all, but rather a way of processing information. I think of it as a magnet drawing me towards knowledge. I suppose you could call it an emotion in that it can drive behavior, but I think of it more as a degree of response to stimulation.
Perhaps your use of the word curious is more narrow than we are interpreting it? Because I assume you mean curious ABOUT what's going on with the person....the depression, or panic or whatever.
>
> We can't be curious in the foreground, and be grumbling, griping, gossipping and complaining about [nouns] => people, places, things, ideas.Rod, grumbling, griping, gossiping, and complaining are not in and of themselves pathological unless they represent a rigid and narrow personality style such as a negativistic personality. I think many of us use this adaptive response as one of many adaptive responses. It's the range and flexibility of how we use these "tools" that is a measure of mental health.
>
> We can, however, use out-of-body guided imagery in the background, and watch ourselves do these things in the foreground. My Mom died at age 72 not knowing this fact!Yes we can. And?
>
> Curiosity is an emotion. Curiosity is the only emotion that can't be extiguished from the outside, or by other people. Only we can turn off our own curiosity.Oh, we absolutely can have our curiosity extinguished, or at least repressed. Think of Erikson's stages of development. Autonomy versus Shame. Autonomy is what develops when a toddler's natural curiosity is allowed to flourish is a safe and nurturing environment. If the parent is constantly saying "no! Don't touch! Stay in my sight! etc" due to their own neuroses, then Shame develops as a consequence of the parents' reaction to the curiosity.
> Curiosity inevitably leads to discovery and gets stronger with practice.
Yes, but it also killed the cat. (Sorry, just couldn't resist) I would add an editorial opinion of whether that was a bad thing or not, but I would inevitably offend one half of pet lovers everywhere.
>
> Since what we don't even know, that we don't even know, and can't even guess at, is almost everything in the universe, being curious can be our "spaceship" for discovery of the new [nouns].
>
> What we need to use to fix ourselves, is out there somewhere, if, and only if, we remain curious...Not sure I can argue with that. It's the curiosity that can lead to motivation for change.
> PS: Denial-and-indecision-together are sins against the self, portrayed as certainty. Caution: certainty does not always mean denial and indecision caused it. Denial-and-indecision-together, do seem always to be veiled in an air of certainty, though. Additional caution: Certainty..... isn't! ...and certainty flys in the face of our curiosity
Okay, now my head hurts. Did a rubber bouncing ball just come though here and bounce in every direction at once? Or perhaps it was Tigger?
gg
Posted by sunny10 on December 5, 2004, at 13:42:41
In reply to Re: ...our spaceship for discovery... » 64bowtie, posted by gardenergirl on December 4, 2004, at 22:39:55
Curiosity depends on an open mind. Rod's points are indeed lucrative because as long as you can "practice" curiosity, you do not have time for narrow-minded griping, a major depressive episode, etc.
Those other things depend on a closed mind. Discussion, and mainly contradictions, are what open the mind and provoke more curiosity.
I am surprised, gardenergirl, that you doubted Rod especially on the point of major depression. If you are not in remission, but in the crux of major depression, your brain no longer sees other options as valid and rejects them out of hand. That is the epitome of a closed mind- curiosity and major depression CANNOT coexist in a closed mind.
I think that Rod is suggesting that we continue to open our minds, consciously and sometimes with great effort, because to do so would make it harder for depression to take a hold of us.
Did I get you right this time, Rod???
Posted by Gabbix2 on December 5, 2004, at 14:28:25
In reply to Re: ...our spaceship for discovery..., posted by sunny10 on December 5, 2004, at 13:42:41
> Curiosity depends on an open mind. Rod's points are indeed lucrative because as long as you can "practice" curiosity, you do not have time for narrow-minded griping, a major depressive episode, etc.
>
> Those other things depend on a closed mind. Discussion, and mainly contradictions, are what open the mind and provoke more curiosity.
>
> I am surprised, gardenergirl, that you doubted Rod especially on the point of major depression. If you are not in remission, but in the crux of major depression, your brain no longer sees other options as valid and rejects them out of hand. That is the epitome of a closed mind- curiosity and major depression CANNOT coexist in a closed mind.
>It's not black and white. And the experiences of people with major depression have certainly proven the opposite of what you've just said. How do you think people have created during their depressions? Why do you think people look for ways to get better during their depressions?
It requires thinking, and thinking requires curiousity.
Generalizations don't get you very far, and the truth generally lies somewhere in the middle.
Major depression is a label for a cluster of symptoms, the symptoms are never identical and people don't adapt their depression to fit them. No one has time for depression, just as no one has time for cancer. To insinuate that one can will it away by gossiping less and becoming even more curious is reductive and not something that would be accepted about any other illness. It's not a character flaw.
Posted by 64bowtie on December 5, 2004, at 15:00:36
In reply to Re: ...our spaceship for discovery..., posted by sunny10 on December 5, 2004, at 13:42:41
sunny,
>
> I think that Rod is suggesting that we continue to open our minds, consciously and sometimes with great effort, because to do so would make it harder for depression to take a hold of us.
>
> Did I get you right this time, Rod???<<< ...and I didn't have to lift a finger. I love you guys.
Sunny, when you "get-it", you really "get-it"! Thanx for the open mind I hear here. Now your life is changed (ever so slightly, and not tragic or toxic this time) and forever. Welcome to your NEW YOU....!
Rod
Posted by Gabbix2 on December 5, 2004, at 15:18:49
In reply to » sunny » Did you??!?, posted by 64bowtie on December 5, 2004, at 15:00:36
As there is an established link between intelligence, creativity, and depressive illness I really don't understand the connection you're making to a closed mind /depression, and open mind/less chance of depression, unless you believe (no sarcasm) that intelligence and creativity are a form of closed mindedness.
Can you explain?
Posted by Dinah on December 5, 2004, at 15:44:31
In reply to Re: ...our spaceship for discovery..., posted by sunny10 on December 5, 2004, at 13:42:41
Are you saying major depressive illness depends on a closed mind?
I thought a review of the life histories of some of our greatest thinkers and leaders pretty much show that major depression has a strong biological component.
I see a big problem here with cause and effect.
Posted by sunny10 on December 5, 2004, at 15:54:49
In reply to Re: » 64bowtie, posted by Gabbix2 on December 5, 2004, at 15:18:49
Gabbix2,
I am simply asking you to remember that a hypo (or hyper)manic, creative episode is not the same as a major depressive episode. I'm afraid we are talking apples and oranges, here.
Major depresion is not the same as what is now known as BiPolar disorder. If you go back to your history, the creative geniuses to which you refer were usually post-humously diagnosed with BiPolar, not Major, Depression. And the artists who WERE suspected of having Major Depression mainly painted the same things over and over- rather closed-minded, don't you agree? They were being commissioned, in some cases, to STAY depressed, like Hyroniuos Bosch (sorry, I'm SURE I've misspelled his name again...)
Does the distinction between BiPolar and Major Depression make this concept a little easier to at least ponder? And, we do not mean to offend, here, merely to ponder...
I believe Ron mentioned "mental masturbation" in another thread... We are mainly doing the same thing, here... that's all. What info helps for some doesn't help others. All pondering is not one size fits all, I'm afraid...
Posted by 64bowtie on December 5, 2004, at 15:56:57
In reply to Re: ...our spaceship for discovery... » sunny10, posted by Gabbix2 on December 5, 2004, at 14:28:25
Gabbi,
>
> It's not black and white.<<< You mean "Progress, not perfection"...?
> It requires thinking, and thinking requires curiousity.
><<< Be careful. Not everyone is capable of logic. Not their fault. They lacked encouragement and guidance at critical points in their maturation. But they can still feel, curious. I haven't known anyone to feel curious and depressed at exactly the same time. I've asked and probed. Nobody yet...
<<< Could I be sharing about something never heard before, even though someone had to have known about it, since I've been putting bits and pieces of it together for nearly 20 years?
As an emotion, curiosity requires feeling. A professor from the University of Haifa, in Isreal, has written what seems the definitive tome on emotions. In there he discusses what an emotion is and includes curiosity as one.
From Pop-Religion is another authur, currently much quoted, indicates that there are only two emotions, love and fear. I read both of these books at Border's Books over coffee.
> Generalizations don't get you very far, and the truth generally lies somewhere in the middle.
><<< So, if the professor lists a couple hundred emotions and the authur says there are only two, wisdom indicates that perhaps there are 60 to 75 emotions, of which curiosity could be a likely place-holder on the list. ...making curiosity a feeling.
> ...To insinuate that one can will it away by gossiping less and becoming even more curious is reductive...
><<< How so?
<<< Learning stuff is not "willing" stuff. I am not into magic, we cannot "will" stuff away. Control-freaks are still in denail about their success at "willing" stuff away. The rest of us know the folly in the logic of any attempts to "will" anything.
I advocate that we watch ourselves and learn how to do it different next time. That's learning stuff not "willing" stuff, seems to me anyway.
Rod
Posted by Dinah on December 5, 2004, at 16:06:06
In reply to our spaceship for discovery... » Gabbix2, posted by 64bowtie on December 5, 2004, at 15:56:57
Because I reject the theory that if I was curious enough, or prayed enough, or partied enough, or (insert theory here) enough, I would be juussst fine.
Posted by sunny10 on December 5, 2004, at 16:46:38
In reply to I must be closed minded, posted by Dinah on December 5, 2004, at 16:06:06
you are one of the least closed-minded people with whom I have had the pleasure of conversing!
Have you ever been through CBT- sorry if I've forgotten? I'm wondering because the very first thing they asked me about were my hobbies. I didn't have any besides reading books (which is less of a hobby and more of an "escape from the world", the way I do it...)
Don't get me wrong- I was BUSY... working, raising a child, keeping a house, cooking, running errands, being a divorcee (which is exhausting all by itself) et cetera. But I was doing absolutely nothing just for fun- for me. And I was so depressed that I couldn't see any other way to live and hating the way I lived. I rejected the therapists' ideas out of hand with every therapist I went to DURING A MAJOR DEPRESSIVE EPISODE. Once the depression was lifted (yes, by medication- I can't get out of it by "free will" alone DURING the episode), I was more open to outside ideas and motivated myself enough to start hiking. Step one was actually shelling out hard earned money on a pair of hiking boots, when I have absolutely ZERO credit due to past depressions and the life I led because of them. I HAD to force myself to see myself as being worth the investment, first! The medication did that, no question. But once it was lifted, I chose to try to do SOMETHING to enjoy life more. I had to, or risk another episode. As you know, from other posts, I am not "yippee, happy go lucky," all the time" ! But I DO feel better now than I have in a long time.
And I'm sure that the chemical side of my depression WILL override my "free will practices" from time to time, but I am hoping that I am lengthing the time between episodes by logically and methodically taking time to analyze what I choose to incorporate, and by "celebrating" myself by induging in hobbies- sometimes neglecting housework, et cetera. There are numerous studies that DO show that people can raise their own "feel good" brain chemical levels by engaging in enjoyable activities. I am choosing to try this AND try to separate logic from emotion in order to survive. And, yes, that is taxing at times.
But that's me, and I suffer from Major Depression and GAD. It is both due to "nurture AND nature". I am lucky to be on the "easier"( ? ) side of chemical depression (nature), so these things may possibly work for me where they might not work for someone with a different diagnosis. And on the "nurture" side, I am the only one who is responsible for nurturing me now... so I guess I better do a better job than my family did for me when I was dependent on them...
Unlike you, I cannot emotionally divorce myself from my mother. But I CAN chose not to allow her to emotionally abuse me anymore. I just do not let her into my life or my son's life, period. I have not seen her, by choice, since I was nineteen yrs old. I am 37 now.
Most importantly, Dinah, I am merely regurgitating the essence of most of your posts, here. And, frankly, most of your posts are a great deal stronger in character than any of mine! Whether you "see" it or not, you practice this theory every day. You do it with your parents, you do it with your son, you do it with your husband, and you do it when you give the rest of us a "boost"!
That's why I've been in awe of you, Sabrina, Susan, and ALL of the others. We are ALL practicing it by even being a part of Babble.
I hope I made sense, here.....
Posted by Gabbix2 on December 5, 2004, at 16:49:19
In reply to Re: closed mind... » Gabbix2, posted by sunny10 on December 5, 2004, at 15:54:49
>> I am simply asking you to remember that a hypo (or hyper)manic, creative episode is not the same as a major depressive episode. I'm afraid we are talking apples and oranges, here.
>I was speaking of Major Unipolar Depressive disorder not bi-polar disorder, I'm aware of the distinction.
> Major depresion is not the same as what is now known as BiPolar disorder. If you go back to your history, the creative geniuses to which you refer were usually post-humously diagnosed with BiPolar,
Abraham Lincoln, Edgar Allen Poe, Mark Twain, William Styron, Albert Camus, Buzz Aldrin (there's curiousity!) Andrew Solomon, All depressives. I did not refer to geniuses. I did refer to artists, authors, and presidents.
> And the artists who WERE suspected of having Major Depression mainly painted the same things over and over- rather closed-minded, don't you agree?
Actually no, but that's not really important.
>
> Does the distinction between BiPolar and Major Depression make this concept a little easier to at least ponder? And, we do not mean to offend, here, merely to ponder...Well I think the distinction isn't germane to what I had posted originally, and had either of
the posts to which I had respoded refered to pondering, I wouldn't have said "Generalizations don't get you very far and the truth lies somewhere in the middle""Curiosity and Major depression CANNOT coexist in a closed mind" and "as long as you practice curiusity you don't have time for a depressive episode or gossiping and griping"
come across to me as definitive statements not an invitations to consider, or ponderences.
Posted by sunny10 on December 5, 2004, at 16:58:02
In reply to Re: closed mind... » sunny10, posted by Gabbix2 on December 5, 2004, at 16:49:19
Sorry to offend again, Gabbix2.
I never said I was a T or Pdoc.
I'm just a poster trying to bounce ideas off of other people for their responses.
Thank you for your response. Good to know there are lots of ideas/theories, and personalities here.
That's what makes us interesting. Boy, would we all be boring ourselves if we only ever agreed!
Have a nice evening...
Posted by Gabbix2 on December 5, 2004, at 17:14:30
In reply to our spaceship for discovery... » Gabbix2, posted by 64bowtie on December 5, 2004, at 15:56:57
> > It's not black and white.
>
> <<< You mean "Progress, not perfection"...?No, that's not what I meant. I meant every situation of depression is a little bit different. What works for one will not necessarily work for another.
>
> > It requires thinking, and thinking requires curiousity.
> >
>
> <<< Be careful. Not everyone is capable of logic. Not their fault.I'm quite capable of logic, thanks.
To want to learn is to be curious.
>I haven't known anyone to feel curious and >depressed at exactly the same time. I've asked >and probed. Nobody yet...Yes but it can be a mistake to make generalizations from one's own experience. I've not known anyone who's fought in a war yet, but I know that they exist.
Gardner girl told you, and I've told you we've remained curious during our depressions, try telling Larry H. he's not curious! or Chemist or the author of Noonday Demon or anyone who's suffering from depression and curious enough to search for a cure.
>
> <<< Could I be sharing about something never heard before, even though someone had to have known about it, since I've been putting bits and pieces of it together for nearly 20 years?
>
I've heard this before, my mom used to tell me this very thing.> As an emotion, curiosity requires feeling. A professor from the University of Haifa, in Isreal, has written what seems the definitive tome on emotions. In there he discusses what an emotion is and includes curiosity as one.
That's semantics to me> From Pop-Religion is another authur, currently much quoted, indicates that there are only two emotions, love and fear. I read both of these books at Border's Books over coffee.
>
> > Generalizations don't get you very far, and the truth generally lies somewhere in the middle.
> >
>
> <<< So, if the professor lists a couple hundred emotions and the authur says there are only two, wisdom indicates that perhaps there are 60 to 75 emotions, of which curiosity could be a likely place-holder on the list. ...making curiosity a feeling.
>
Curiosity is what it is.
> > ...To insinuate that one can will it away by gossiping less and becoming even more curious is reductive...
> >
>
> <<< How so?Because you are working on the assumption that
A. everyone who suffers from Depression has the same symptoms
B. Everyone who has the symptoms of Major Depression is not curious
C. Everyone who has the symptoms of Major Depression gossips too much.
D. If these people who all suffer from the same symptoms (false) who are all not curious (false)
Who all spend to much time gossiping (false)
follow these instructions they will get better.That's simplistic, reductive, and it would be really nice if it were that easy. Unfortunately if that were the case I would not have become depressed in the first place.
Posted by Gabbix2 on December 5, 2004, at 17:21:17
In reply to Re: closed mind... » Gabbix2, posted by sunny10 on December 5, 2004, at 16:58:02
> Sorry to offend again, Gabbix2.
>no apologies necessary sunny. I used to actually be a lot "nicer" on Babble, but then people got to know me and I stopped cloaking everything in "nice" because people already knew I liked them, and I was questioning the post, not them. Now there's all you NEW people, and *sigh* I have to start being NICE all over again dam*it!
I really like discussion, and thinking.
Sometimes when I'm a little off though I can forget that there's a person behind the post if they sound really sure of themselves.So I'm sorry too.
You have a nice evening too : )
Posted by gardenergirl on December 5, 2004, at 20:53:02
In reply to Re: our spaceship for discovery... » 64bowtie, posted by Gabbix2 on December 5, 2004, at 17:14:30
> No, that's not what I meant. I meant every situation of depression is a little bit different. What works for one will not necessarily work for another.
I agree with Gabbi here. I have atypical depression, and my depressive episodes do not look like the "norm" for depression, if there really is one. If you consider the wide range of self-thoughts, past experiences, biological underpinnings including all the possible combinations of alleles and genetic markers, all the different AD's we may or may not be on in various doses, the differences in support systems, overall physical health, co-morbities, shoot...is that enough? Depression has some common elements, but how it is experienced is unique to each individual. And what works or doesn't is unique to each as well.
That doesn't mean that what has worked for Rod and others is not valid. It's just not penicillin for depression. I'm allergic to penicillen anyway, so it's no magic pill for me.
> It requires thinking, and thinking requires curiousity.
Hmmm, as a graduate student, I think I can speak for at least myself that thinking sometimes is a requirement in and of itself. I may not be remotely curious about the subject, but I have to think about it. But then this is another semantic argument. ;)
> >
> > <<< Could I be sharing about something never heard before, even though someone had to have known about it, since I've been putting bits and pieces of it together for nearly 20 years?Rod, perhaps you can be, but considering that you are basing this on your mentor's writings, at least in part, I don't know that you are sharing with us something all that earth shattering. You are sharing what makes sense to you. My own therapy orientation is what makes sense to me. It does not to my supervisor. I think we all tend to gravitate to theories that help us understand ourselves. There's nothing wrong with that. In fact, the different theories are another celebration of diversity. But what works for one in one situation may not work for others. It may not even work for that same one in a different situation.
I think the difficulty some have with your theories is the way you present them. Theories are theories. They are not law. And when somebody seems to suggest that they know the way to our own happiness, it can feel off-putting, at least to me. Heck, I've worked with my T for over a year now, and I know I can still surprise him with some of my thoughts, issues, and feelings. His openness to being with me in whatever comes out is what makes him so special to me. He has theories about how therapy helps, but he has to listen to me to know how to apply them or when to modify his approach.
I'm sure that you value this as well. Communicating in this media is difficult, and perhaps your enthusiasm for your beliefs can add valence to what you are saying that you might not intend?
gg
Posted by Gabbix2 on December 5, 2004, at 20:59:59
In reply to Re: our spaceship for discovery..., posted by gardenergirl on December 5, 2004, at 20:53:02
Thanks GG, that's what I was trying to say, only much more thoughtfully put. And as for thinking requiring curiousity, it's true, much thinking I suppose is rote, wanting to learn is more likely to require curiousity.
Posted by Dinah on December 6, 2004, at 3:04:23
In reply to Re: I must be closed minded, posted by sunny10 on December 5, 2004, at 16:46:38
In fact I know I have been. It leads to a lot of apologizing.
Actually, although I have had bouts of depression, depression isn't my major problem. And neither is lack of curiosity. When something captures my interest I devour it whole. I drive my husband nuts because as soon as we mention that maybe we'd like to look into something I throw myself into it and have thoroughly researched it before he gets a chance to do anything.
I haven't really noticed that it's helped my mental illness at all. Although of course I have no way of knowing what I'd be like without a healthy interest in whatever captures my fancy.
But like Gabbi, I can't help but think of some of the people on this site (or people like Abraham Lincoln or Winston Churchill who sprung immediately to mind) who clearly have a curiosity about any number of topics, clearly are passionately involved with ideas, yet also suffer from major depression. If anything, I rather think that major depression and a greater than normal intensity of interest and feeling for things and ideas may go hand in hand. Some of the happiest and least depressed people I know are ones who prefer to live the unexamined life.
Then of course I have a knee jerk reaction to anything that so much as hints at blaming people for things like major depression or a finely tuned nervous system. Or that reminds me of my parents', bosses', and many acquaintances' response to emotional problems.
All that being said, physical activity has been pretty definitively linked to improved mental health, hasn't it? I know there were some references in recent threads to yoga. It's a mystery to me (smile) because I *never* feel better after exercise, but your chosen interest may have a chemical basis for making you feel better - endorphins and all that. My therapist used to recommend sex (before he got to know me).
Posted by 64bowtie on December 6, 2004, at 5:32:22
In reply to Re: our spaceship for discovery... » 64bowtie, posted by Gabbix2 on December 5, 2004, at 17:14:30
Posted by 64bowtie on December 6, 2004, at 6:03:56
In reply to Re: I must be crabby lately » sunny10, posted by Dinah on December 6, 2004, at 3:04:23
Dinah, Please indulge me...
It has become very important that I stop the train. Being prone to depression and being curious are not mutually exclusive. You can have a history of depression and still have a history of being curious.
Please study yourself while in a fit of deep depression, sorta outta body (objectively). Attempt to be curious about a new thought, investigating its etiology. Notice that for that brief moment of curiosity, you were not consumed by the succumbing feelings of depressive despair. If you can still conjure up intuition, inciteful aha!s, meanful duh!s, while retaining the depressive despair, I'll still eat my hat.
These are not new conditions I put on this statement. I always have maintained they both can't be done at the same exact time in space. It ain't gonna happen.
Why am I going at this so hot and heavy? Because the more often you insist on being curious, the less time you have to be in succumbing depressive despair!
Is this a good thing? I'll eat another hat if you can prove that getting outta depression is a bad thing!
The aha! that comes along with curiosity provides a moment of bliss. Bliss and depression don't mix well, without a nuclear explosion or something...
When nuclear mass goes prompt-super-critical, inside the fireball, everything is a possibility!
Rod
Posted by 64bowtie on December 6, 2004, at 6:21:20
In reply to ...our spaceship for discovery..., posted by 64bowtie on December 4, 2004, at 14:17:48
Posted by Gabbix2 on December 6, 2004, at 18:55:11
In reply to Why do I feel I'm being punished by you? (nm) » Gabbix2, posted by 64bowtie on December 6, 2004, at 5:32:22
I wouldn't want to try and tell you why you feel the way you do Rod, but I can say I'm not trying to punish you. In all honesty, yes I often don't tolerate your approach well, and often feel condescended to by you. That's not the sole reason I tell you what I think when I disagree with you though. You present yourself as a coach not a person in need of support. So when you ask for feedback, I give it to you. I would do the same for anyone who claimed to be a professional and asked for feedback, or made claims about an illness I live with. Your posts rarely question, they're quite self-assured statements, and you have said you weren't asking for "warm fuzzies" therefore I've never felt my responses need to be delicate either.
Originally I had thought if I just didn't respond to you it wouldn't be offering you the feedback you've asked for and that wouldn't be helpful to you.
It doesn't seem that it's really doing either of us much good, and probably contributing to a negative feeling on babble overall, so I think this will most likely be my last post.
Posted by Dinah on December 6, 2004, at 19:21:57
In reply to » (((Dinah))) » Pardon my intrusion please, posted by 64bowtie on December 6, 2004, at 6:03:56
I still think there's a problem here with cause and effect. But I also know that trying to persuade someone to my point of view is usually a wasted effort. :)
It's largely academic in my particular case anyway. I seldom get that sort of depression. I usually get the jumping out of my skin sort, and that coincides nicely with curiosity.
No need to self flagellate, Rod.
Wouldn't it be nice if we could all experience being inside each other for just a little while so that these misunderstandings can be avoided?
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