Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on August 15, 2004, at 0:11:42
Only seems fair...
I have two.
I was in the midst of a nasty postpartum depression and had recently begun seeing the man who I now refer to as the pdoc from H*ll (disclaimer - I'm sure he's helped many people and it was just a bad match for me). He hadn't seen me for very long, but my therapist had been conferring with him for several months on my case. (The pdoc was a consultant at the clinic, and he had my permission, but I was breastfeeding and refused meds.) I told him that I was upset that I wasn't feeling the range of emotions towards motherhood that I had hoped for. I felt flat. Natural enough in postpartum depression, right? He turned to me and said in an offhand manner that I had schizotypal personality disorder, that I would never feel much for anyone, that it wasn't my fault because it was outside my abilities. Now I *knew* that any information he had that led him to that conclusion came from my therapist, because he just hadn't seen me long enough to conclude that himself, and my therapist had spoken to him about me on occasion off and on for months. I was absolutely livid. (Which is good for postpartum depression, I suppose.) My therapist pretty much admitted that he agreed with the conclusion, though insisted it was the pdoc who diagnosed me, not him. It led to a rupture in the therapeutic alliance that lasted well over a year. He now says he believes he would no longer say that about me.
In my immediate postpartum period, I couldn't leave the house. I was trying to hide my frightening suicidal impulses from my husband and family, but I reached out for my therapist. He would call, I would try to tell him how scared I was. He would say he didn't have long to talk but would call me at xxx o'clock. I would arrange to have the baby taken care of so that I could pour out my fears, he would call (often late), and just as I would start to tell him how really afraid I was that I would harm myself, he'd tell me that he didn't have long and was just checking in. I finally screeched at him that he didn't understand. That even though I couldn't leave the house I was willing to pay for a phone session. That I was desperately afraid I would hurt myself. So we arranged payment and a time and he called me. I think we did it twice. Both times I promptly mailed payment. The first time, I think, he seemed distracted. Mid session he told me that it was raining and he could see that he left his car windows open, and he needed to go close them. He's not really good on the phone. :(
Posted by gardenergirl on August 15, 2004, at 8:29:26
In reply to Worst moments in therapy, posted by Dinah on August 15, 2004, at 0:11:42
I would have to say it was when he double-booked. I got there second. What made it worse was that the staff said I wasn't on his book, but didn't say he was with another client. They also didn't tell me he had another client the next hour. At the same time, I heard the nurse take a call that sounded like a crisis. I heard her tranfer the call, so I assumed that he was taking that call, and would come out when he could, so we could straighten things out. Now I know I was assuming stuff, but if they had told me his schedule was booked the rest of the day, I would not have waited an hour just to have him apologize and send me away.
That felt absolutely awful. I can understand the commedy of errors that led to it...I've doubled-booked once before, although I caught it ahead of time so I could fix it. But I still felt so unimportant and rejected. I struggled between that feeling and the rational side which knew it was a mistake. And the next session, I really couldn't talk about it. I just kind of said I understood. But I'm sure it was awkward for a bit.
gg
Posted by rubenstein on August 15, 2004, at 10:32:45
In reply to Re: Worst moments in therapy, posted by gardenergirl on August 15, 2004, at 8:29:26
Gosh this is much harder to write. I was in the middle of my first crisis, I was on the wrong meds and had just started the SI thing at a much more regular frequency. I couldn't get into the pyschiatrist for another month and I had an appointment scheduled with my therapist after a two week hiatus scheduled. The office called in the morning and cancelled and the next available time was two weeks later. I was devastated and to insecure to ask for help when I needed it. I knew it wasn't personal but it really enabled me to harbour many issues of mistrust for the next couple of months. Then when I went in...at the end of the session he said that we needed to see each other every week. I was happy, but the way he said it was not one of his best moments and part of me felt so very ashamed for having to be the needy client. It was not a good moment and things have improved from there, although I must admit this vacation does bring back many of the old trust issues that I previously had.
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on August 15, 2004, at 10:39:15
In reply to Worst moments in therapy, posted by Dinah on August 15, 2004, at 0:11:42
I remember one particularly BAD session. It was so bad that I posted here about it and Dinah you made me feel so much better.
From the minute he got me from the waiting room I knew something was really wrong. AS we walked into his office, I saw a woman lying face down on the couch in the exit hallway. I assumed maybe she was the client before me? Anyway, he said nothing about it, so neither did I.
Our session was simply awful. He seemed distracted, impatient, and would go on and on about his theories about WW II and so on. All very interesteting but they had nothing to do with me. We then managed to get on the topic of my fear that he would terminate me at any minute (this was very early on in my therapy). This got him on a very stern talk about how if he was feeling he couldn't help me he would have no qualms about referring me to someone else. HE then also thought my fears were an indicator that I was becoming too dependent on him and that was one thing he never wanted to foster in his clients. I felt so attacked and like I was 5 years old and my father was yelling at me.
I couldn't wait to leave. When I left, the girl on the couch was gone. And next week, he was back to normal. I can only imagine his mood must have been from the session before mine.
Posted by shrinking violet on August 15, 2004, at 14:32:45
In reply to Worst moments in therapy, posted by Dinah on August 15, 2004, at 0:11:42
I started seeing my T last summer (she's a LICSW at the university where I'm a grad student). Because I have an eating disorder, she and the school requires I be monitored by a "team" (my T, a nutritionist, a medical doc, and pdoc for meds). My T had been nagging at me for a few months to set up an apt. with the medical doc for an evaluation. I kept putting it off. In the meantime, my depression was getting worse. I (so so stupidly) gave her a journal entry in January talking about how I think about purposely crashing my car into a pole. My T read the journal after I left her office; she immediately e-mailed me and told me to go back for a session that week. I told her no, I was fine. She said okay, if I'm sure. Then I changed my mind (it amazes me sometimes how stupid I am) and decided maybe discussing the thoughts might help alleviate them. So I asked to see her again that week. We set up an appt for two days later.
When I arrive, I naively think we're actually going to have a session. Instead, she informs me that she somehow pulled strings to get me an apt with the med doc at school, and after I see her then I could go back up and see my T and talk about stuff. I was so pissed and shocked, but I had no choice.
So, I went. During that apt, my EKG came back abnormal, as did my blood pressure and I admitted dizzy spells, etc (why I'm so dumb enough to be honest, I dont know....I've learned my lesson since, though). So, she and the doc are freaking out, and pressure me to check myself IP for the 3-day weekend (which turned out very badly......I didn't receive any "care," I did nothing but cry for the 3 days I was there, and I didn't eat.....I lost a few pounds though, so maybe it was worth it).
I felt SO utterly betrayed by my T afterwards. I understand she and the doc have an obligation to themselves, their jobs, and the school first (where that leaves me, I have no idea), so the fact that they acted to cover their own butts shouldn't have surprised me, but it still hurt like hell. That my T would make me believe I was coming for session when she KNEW she was going to spring a med appt on me (she denies it, says it didnt happen that way, that the appt was a last-minute thing, but I know that's a crock), AND making me go to that hell hole without thinking how it might affect me, etc. AND assuming I'd kill myself (we didn't even get to talk about it at all!) without ASKING me first.
Well, it took a while, but we got past it and I'm still with her, although I feel like I need to protect myself and my education from them (they, especially the med doc, have the power to throw me out of school if they feel I'm too much of a liability), which makes me lie to them about some things (how that's supposed to be helpful, I dont know, but they have their agenda and so I need to have mine).
Hm, it STILL pisses me off when I think about it. Now I'm ticked....
Posted by Susan47 on August 15, 2004, at 14:58:09
In reply to Worst moments in therapy, posted by Dinah on August 15, 2004, at 0:11:42
Oh Dinah, I really feel for you. It sounds like you worked it out with your therapist though, and I think that shows a huge amount of courage on your part.
I had a psychiatrist tell me once that I was mentally ill. Well, okay, that covers a huge range but what exactly did she mean? Of course, I'll never be able to forget that. And my last ex-T told me that he thought I was selfish (he qualified that with "at times" but still, it bothers me). So now I'm a selfish, mentally ill person. Hmm. And another P-doc told me I was slightly schizophrenic.
What's with the labels? I don't know how they're helpful. Once a p-doc or T has an idea of what he/she thinks is going on, why can't they try to find out more about it and help us work through it, instead of labelling? Because I think it's apparent they're sometimes incorrect, sometimes in a bad mood, sometimes their own memories are unreliable, etc etc... they're human too and labelling only hurts us. Do they think we don't remember this stuff? Sometimes I really wonder if it's a hostile passive/aggressive maneuvre, meant to get even with the patient/client.
Posted by Susan47 on August 15, 2004, at 15:26:41
In reply to Re: Worst moments in therapy, posted by shrinking violet on August 15, 2004, at 14:32:45
It's only my interpretation, but it seems as though your doctors really do have your best interests at heart; I think it must be really difficult to be a p-doc or T and always make the *right* decisions. I wonder if maybe sometimes a doctor will take the chance his patient gets really upset and discouraged, if he/she feels that at least the patient will be alive tomorrow. It sounds like you're having a really serious struggle and your docs are concerned about you and really trying to help you.
Do you feel manipulated by them? I'm only asking because I felt that way about my T, and it completely destroyed the relationship. I think you should try to hang onto your faith in yourself and your docs. Just an opinion, thanks for reading and take care.
Posted by shrinking violet on August 15, 2004, at 20:00:30
In reply to Re: Worst moments in therapy:shrinking violet, posted by Susan47 on August 15, 2004, at 15:26:41
>> It's only my interpretation, but it seems as though your doctors really do have your best interests at heart; I think it must be really difficult to be a p-doc or T and always make the *right* decisions. I wonder if maybe sometimes a doctor will take the chance his patient gets really upset and discouraged, if he/she feels that at least the patient will be alive tomorrow.
Maybe you have a point. Thank you for the perspective. Afterwards, my T did say that sometimes she needs to take a risk that her client will be angry at her if she feels it was the best choice to make, and she said she wouldn't apologize for caring about me. I'm still not completely sure I believe her, and I still don't agree with what happened, but I can (if I really concentrate on it) sort of see her position and where she's coming from.
>> Do you feel manipulated by them?
Not manipulated, exactly. I know they are sincere; they truly are very sweet and kind people and I like them all. But I also feel they have a conflict of interests (their job/the school and me) and I often feel like their priorities lie in protecting themselves and the school first, and helping me second, which makes it hard to fully trust them and be honest, and it's rather scary always having the threat of being thrown out hanging over my head. But I know I'm lucky to have them, and I do like them as people, and it's going to be hard to lose them all once I graduate.
Thank you for your words. :)
Posted by daisym on August 15, 2004, at 22:17:52
In reply to Re: Worst moments in therapy:shrinking violet » Susan47, posted by shrinking violet on August 15, 2004, at 20:00:30
There was a period of time when I had just started to acknowledge that there was a completely different, younger part of me that really wanted and needed "our" therapist. He pushed me one day about what she really wanted to say...what did she need from him.
So I let her tell him. Full force, all her childish needs poured out including wanting the safety of the therapy room 24/7. And then there was silence. A realllly lllloooonnnnggg silence. I finally said, "say something!" So he said something about how brave it was for me to let her share that. And I fled the room.
It was awful. I felt like such an idiot and figured I had finally overwhelmed him with my needs. I vowed to never be that honest again.
He called me like 2 hours later and said, "I'm afraid I really hurt you." I took the adult-prideful way of "no, really. You asked, she told. Its fine." He insisted it wasn't "fine" and could tell I was tremendously hurt and upset. He explained that he was trying to figure out how to respond to what the little girl needed in a way that wouldn't make the adult quit therapy. Because he knew this attachment was very scary for me and I pull back when I get scared. But he acknowledge that he should have responded to the child who was telling him how much she needed him. So he fixed it. He always does.
Posted by Klokka on August 15, 2004, at 23:15:15
In reply to Worst moments in therapy, posted by Dinah on August 15, 2004, at 0:11:42
I suppose it's a good sign that I can only think of two different occurences.
The first wasn't really "in" therapy, but did a lot of damage all the same. My pdoc had told me repeatedly to call him if anything came up, and I'd wanted to on several occasions, but felt like I'd be wasting his time, my problems weren't serious, and so never did. One week when I didn't see him, I had a very bad day. I wanted so badly to call him, but didn't. That night I was very upset over a test the next day (I was in no state to study, and so didn't understand a thing) and thought of nothing but death. I was so tired in the morning that I downed an entire pot of coffee, so by the time I got to school, I was depressed AND agitated. And for once I was in such bad shape that the shame of giving in and calling him didn't seem so bad anymore. I had the guidance counselor leave a message explaining what was going on and that it was urgent, since it was so bad I couldn't even be coherent for the minute or so it would take to call. I didn't go to class all day, and spent it instead sitting in an empty office in the guidance area with a book to distract me and my cell phone in easy reach. He meant to call back in the afternoon, but left the clinic without my phone number. Hence no phone call. I was a total wreck (well, more so than earlier) by the time I realized he wasn't going to call and left school. The counselor and nurse there looked so worried, urged me to call him back and remind him, and I just said "Well, if I can't trust him I may as well find out now" and proceeded to wander about the town in a daze for over an hour (and good thing the traffic wasn't bad!) That was Thursday - only on Monday did I begin to break out of that state. I wrote a horrible nine-page rambling letter that night, never gave it to him, and proceeded to tell him nothing about it at our next session. I know now that he knew it hurt, anyway, but it still does hurt and the loss of trust that occured there hasn't completely been fixed. I trust that he means to call back, but I will not call him in crisis now because I don't trust him to call back (though he's taken some measures to prevent that from happening again,) and because the anxiety over whether he would would just push me over the edge.
The second time was immediately after the first - lovely, eh? He returned from being away two weeks, I guess was at a conference or something, and those had been two very bad weeks for me. I had recently heard a very menacing voice in my head, and didn't think it was serious but was still quite shaken over it. In our first session after his return, he didn't seem concerned with anything but answering a long, seemingly pointless list of questions. I was so frustrated I answered readily - because I wanted the questions to be over so I could talk about what was really on my mind. Thankfully, this one was resolved (mentioned it in "Best moments"), but for a while I seriously considered going to get a referral to another pdoc.
Overall I guess I have nothing to complain about, except for the phone thing. Hopefully we can come up with another way of getting in touch when needed over the school year, though, because my schedule would make it almost impossible for me to receive calls when he tends to call back, anyway.
Posted by shortelise on August 16, 2004, at 1:29:18
In reply to Worst moments in therapy, posted by Dinah on August 15, 2004, at 0:11:42
Dinah,
That's awful! That is just so so awful. I am so sorry for you that you had that happen. I read your post with my hands to my cheeks, blushing with horror. What could possible have been going through that dreadful man's mind? Who in the world could think that to be confronted in such a manner with such a diagnoses, expressed in such a manner, could be in any way helpful?
There are some truly stupid people in the world.
Hugs
ShortE
Posted by pegasus on August 16, 2004, at 11:45:33
In reply to Worst moments in therapy, posted by Dinah on August 15, 2004, at 0:11:42
I once (once) had a session with my T and my husband both present. It was horrifying, because my T behaved exactly the same way toward my husband as he always had toward me. He said some of the same little jokes, and used the same wordings and expressions. I felt like I was seeing behind the wizard's curtain, and I realized (I thought) that all of the special little things he said that I thought were for me, were things he said to everyone. I felt like such a dope, and all of a sudden terribly unimportant. That the one place where I felt a little special had suddenly and unexpectedly been exposed as an illusion, and I saw that it was only my own stupidity that had made any of it seem real in the first place.
And then, at the end of that session, we all realized that with my vacation and a work trip and my T's vacation, I wouldn't see him again for 7 weeks. I wanted to die. He asked if I was ok, and I said no. He said something about it being an honest answer, and then I had to leave. I felt so tossed to the wolves. After that I refused to have my husband come with me ever again.
We never did talk about that session in any detail. When I've referred to it being a bad one, he replied that it must have been really hard to talk about my private stuff with two people. But that wasn't it at all! Maybe one day I'll send him an email explaining what really hurt about that session.
pegasus
Posted by Susan47 on August 16, 2004, at 18:09:52
In reply to Re: Worst moments in therapy:shrinking violet » Susan47, posted by shrinking violet on August 15, 2004, at 20:00:30
Are you angry because you're losing them? The system sucks. Therapy is something that I don't think should be done for remuneration (!!!!) although I don't know what other way there would be around it. I think that only a patient or a client can understand what it's like to have your identity so closely tied to someone within a system, not a friendship of the heart.
Posted by Susan47 on August 16, 2004, at 18:11:27
In reply to Re: Worst moments in therapy:shrinking violet, posted by Susan47 on August 16, 2004, at 18:09:52
PS Shrinking violet, I've wanted to run my car into poles too, and other stuff, and I *wish* my therapist had taken me seriously. I think you're fortunate.
Posted by thewrite1 on August 16, 2004, at 23:46:22
In reply to Worst moments in therapy, posted by Dinah on August 15, 2004, at 0:11:42
My worse moment consisted of a misunderstanding. My T had mentioned to me previously that her husband is a lawyer. Leading into what I was talking about, I asked her what kind of law her husband practiced. She answered and asked why I wanted to know. I explained that my husband and I were probably going to need a lawyer. Boy, did she get defensive and overly-dramatic about that. I realize I should have chosen my words more carefully, but I was in no insinuating that I wanted her husband to be our lawyer, nor was I seeking advice. I was merely trying to gauge how much she'd be able to follow the conversation as far as the law goes. I've never had the courage to bring that up and explain myself for fear it would just make it worse, but it's been over a year ago now and it still bothers me.
Posted by Susan47 on August 17, 2004, at 13:03:51
In reply to Re: Worst moments in therapy, posted by thewrite1 on August 16, 2004, at 23:46:22
Your therapist might have been defending her boundaries a bit overzealously. That was probably her issue, not yours, but you might need an apology from her. Maybe that's why you can't let it go.
Posted by thewrite1 on August 17, 2004, at 17:07:37
In reply to Re: Worst moments in therapy:write1, posted by Susan47 on August 17, 2004, at 13:03:51
Yeah, I'm thinking maybe I should try to talk to her about it 'cause it does feel like something that's *still* between us. OTOH, I very seriously doubt that she even remembers and that may just make me feel worse.
Posted by tinydancer on August 18, 2004, at 13:20:31
In reply to Worst moments in therapy, posted by Dinah on August 15, 2004, at 0:11:42
There has been no shortage of bad moments in therapy. As my T is fond of saying, "You're going to have to do a lot the work on your own. Sorry about that..."
One time I had asked for a second appointment. We were discussing it over email and he was reluctant because he didn't want to build up overdependence. Then in the middle of the crisis he got called away, his kid got sick, and meanwhile I ended up in the cuckoo's nest and was admitted to the psych ward. He felt terrible because "he started something he couldn't finish" and of course I felt angry at him. But we made it through that fine.
I think another moment that hurt a lot was when we had a conversation a little something like this:Tiny: I'm so frustrated. I feel like...if I had the chance to be in a relationship with you, then I could live with the end result, whatever that would be. You never know-maybe you would be happier with me!
T: You're right, Tiny. I will never know...
Tiny: Never is a pretty strong word.
T: Yes, I guess so. But I'm not even going to give it a chance. So we won't find out either way.
Tiny: Man, what did I do to you in my last life?
Ooooh, brutal...He said it in the nicest way possible but still....Ice pick through the heart!!!
Posted by Starlight on August 18, 2004, at 15:23:52
In reply to Re: Worst moments in therapy, posted by Susan47 on August 15, 2004, at 14:58:09
Susan,
I agree completely. The worst thing about being labeled is that then you walk around thinking, 'do I really meet that criteria','am I really selfish','do I really have a personality disorder?' It's a hard cross to bear. My doc put some just horrible things in my chart and when I read them I was devastated. It just worked me to no end. And even worse, then I start thinking, "what does this mean?" does it mean that I'm on the verge of a breakdown and falling out of society because this person labels me this way. Then when they call you a high functioning person - does that mean they're just waiting for the other shoe to drop?It's endless mental torture as long as we engage in that neurosis that these docs start. I thank god that I found out about what this therapist had to say about me - as it was the end of that relationship, and it makes it harder to trust any other doc. Even now that I have a new doc, I wonder what she's labeling me as now. It's a terrible profession that I guess we need.
starlight
Posted by Susan47 on August 18, 2004, at 21:53:03
In reply to Re: Worst moments in therapy, posted by tinydancer on August 18, 2004, at 13:20:31
Don't take it seriously tinydancer, he *had* to absolutely *had* to say that, no matter what he really feels, and if he said anything else he wouldn't be the man you respect! Just a thought...
Posted by Susan47 on August 18, 2004, at 21:59:20
In reply to Re: Worst moments in therapy:write1 » Susan47, posted by thewrite1 on August 17, 2004, at 17:07:37
Oh write1, I just wrote you the most lovely reply and it got lost in space!
I'll try to reiterate what I said the first time, with as much feeling. Okay. From way out here, it seems to me as though you might be feeling as though your therapist doesn't trust you even to this day, otherwise, why would it still be bothering you? It sounds like she was overly defensive at that time on the issue regarding boundaries, but if it's an issue for you, it exists. At least, that's the way I interpreted you. I'd really like to know how you feel about this, what do you think?
Posted by tinydancer on August 19, 2004, at 1:40:25
In reply to Re: Worst moments in therapy, posted by Susan47 on August 18, 2004, at 21:53:03
> Don't take it seriously tinydancer, he *had* to absolutely *had* to say that, no matter what he really feels, and if he said anything else he wouldn't be the man you respect! Just a thought...
I know. You are right. Thanks for writing it in words though. :)
Posted by thewrite1 on August 19, 2004, at 13:32:47
In reply to Re: Worst moments in therapy:write1, posted by Susan47 on August 18, 2004, at 21:59:20
I think you're right. There's something there, or otherwise I would have been able to let it go by now. I think mostly I was offended and hurt that she would automatically think the worst of me. I remember I wanted to explain myself at the time, but I also wanted to run from the room and never return. I tried to pretend that it never happened, but obviously that didn't work. Maybe it's time I talked to her about it and let her know how much it hurt me? I don't know if I can, but it does feel like something that's still between us and preventing me from speaking freely.
Posted by Dinah on August 19, 2004, at 13:36:26
In reply to Re: Worst moments in therapy:write1 » Susan47, posted by thewrite1 on August 19, 2004, at 13:32:47
I've never been sorry when I've been honest with my therapist about things like that. Sometimes it's taken quite a few discussions before we understand what each of us mean. But it's always led to a deepening of the intimacy of the therapeutic relationship.
I'm not sure how well it works in relationships outside theray, unless the person you're talking to is familiar with working things out. But in therapy, where they are trained to do that stuff (if they're any good) it really works well.
Posted by karlak13 on August 20, 2004, at 21:34:19
In reply to Worst moments in therapy, posted by Dinah on August 15, 2004, at 0:11:42
I guess I could say I have had a couple of bad moments. My first was when I was newly married and a very young mother of baby. My husband and I were having marrital problems and I was having personal problems so My husband and I were seeing the t seperatly. One night my husband confided in the t that I was heavaly using cocaine and sleeping around. She said that was child neglegt/abuse. She was going to give him 24 hours to kick me out of the house and provide a safe place for the kids. Well needless to say before my husband had time to confront me because it was only a couple of hours latter she had called Social services on us. We both lost custody of our kids for awhile. My husband felt very very betrayed by the t because she didn't stick to her word and I felt betrayed by both of them. We both learned to only be so honest with therapists.
The second problem came 4 years ago. I had been severly depressed and was hallucinating, delusional, paranoid, hearing voices telling me to kill people, etc. I called a crisis line and talked to my dr who got me in to see a shrink right away. He admitted me into the hopital. A pdoc came and saw me for maybe 5 min. and came up with the diagnosis of depression phycosis. My husband and I were thinking paranoid schizophrenia. After a week I was discharged on an antidepressent and antiphycotic. I went back to the pdoc that saw me the first day of my chrisis. He said he agreed it was depression phycossis because I had been severly depressed for several years due to chronic pain and basically had a mental breakdown and a phycotic eposode. He said after a few years I should be able to quit taking meds and be fine. I got a second opinion who said paranoid schizophrenia. Well I decided to go with the more optomistic diagnosis. Wrong answer. I changed pdoc due to insurance change. 4 months ago he said I was no longer depressed, no longer phycotic things looked good lets try going off your meds. I did and was ok for 1 month. Then I started hearing voices, having delussions, hallucinations, and was afraid that my husband was trying to kill me. My husband told me to call my dr. He talked to him and they put me back on my meds. My hubby promised if I still felt he was trying to kill me after I had been on my meds a couple of weeks he would move out. So I complied. What a fool I feel like. My new pdoc has changed my official diagnosis now to paranoid schizophrenia. I will never go off my meds agian!
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