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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 24 to 48 of 69. Go back in thread:
Posted by karen_kay on June 7, 2004, at 17:41:07
In reply to Re: LucyStone - Re: Bothered » rockymtnhi, posted by Miss Honeychurch on June 7, 2004, at 15:56:53
miss honey,
i too was in CBT for over a year. it's helped me tremendously in overcoming anxiety and finding new ways to deal with stress. i have found that i no longer 'flip out' over minor details or daily stressors. i think my therapist was veyr helpful in also discussing dreams, past memories and other things not usually typical in CBT thereapy (am i even right in saying that? i'm no expert so i could be wrong).
sometimes it takes some longer than others. but, CBT was very helpful for me. also helpful though, were other techniques incorporated into therapy.
Posted by fires on June 7, 2004, at 18:00:34
In reply to Re: LucyStone - Re: Bothered » Miss Honeychurch, posted by karen_kay on June 7, 2004, at 17:41:07
I don't wish to sound condescending, but I don't generally "flip out" over minor details or daily stressors. My PDoc may disagree. ;)
I'd be very interested in learning what, if any reasons, were learned to be responsible your flipping out?
Best wishes
Posted by gardenergirl on June 7, 2004, at 20:19:21
In reply to Re: LucyStone - Re: Bothered, posted by fires on June 7, 2004, at 18:00:34
Fires,
I was just curious, perhaps because I have learned to listen to my free associations. But how did you choose your screen name? I mean, when I see fires, I think flames. This came to me since the beginning of this thread, but of course only you know why you chose your ID.
gg
Posted by fires on June 7, 2004, at 21:10:12
In reply to Question for fires » fires, posted by gardenergirl on June 7, 2004, at 20:19:21
I chose the name because I at one time wanted to be in a wildland firefighting agency -- hopefully as a Division Chief. Health problems shot that career.
Free association? Is that like when a person says cigar, it doesn't necessarily mean anything about male anatomy? ;)
Oh lord, I'm getting tired/silly.
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 7, 2004, at 23:26:57
In reply to Re: CBT questions, posted by fires on June 7, 2004, at 16:05:11
> I have an old book by David Burns, MD, titled "The Feeling Good Handbook", © 1989, which is about "cognitive therapy"...
I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature at this site:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon
The first time anyone refers to a book without using this option, I post this to try to make sure he or she at least knows about it. It's just an option, though, and doesn't *have* to be used. If people *choose* not to use it, I'd be interested why not, but I'd like that redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7717.html
Thanks!
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 7, 2004, at 23:41:33
In reply to bothered by this, posted by lucy stone on June 7, 2004, at 15:22:22
> I am tempted to tear into you, but I can hear my analyst's voice in my head discussing with me why I would want to do that, who I would be attacking, and what I think it would get me. That voice is stopping me from a behavior that I know is not good for me.
Thanks for resisting. It's OK for people to be skeptical. If someone bothers you, it may be best just not to respond. Or even to read their posts.
There may be posters who try to start arguments and upset others. Of course, not everyone who starts an argument or upsets someone else *intends* to do so.
Bob
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on June 8, 2004, at 2:14:12
In reply to Re: CBT questions, posted by fires on June 7, 2004, at 16:05:11
Well, I don't feel "stuck." I've been making steady progress. I have yet to feel as though I haven't been getting better by the month. When and if I feel that is ever the case, then I will explore medication.
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on June 8, 2004, at 2:16:53
In reply to Re: LucyStone - Re: Bothered, posted by fires on June 7, 2004, at 18:00:34
> I don't wish to sound condescending, but I don't generally "flip out" over minor details or daily stressors. My PDoc may disagree. ;)
>
> I'd be very interested in learning what, if any reasons, were learned to be responsible your flipping out?
>
> Best wishes
Well, that DID come off as condescending. Your second paragraph would have been sufficient.
Posted by fires on June 8, 2004, at 12:28:58
In reply to Re: double double quotes » fires, posted by Dr. Bob on June 7, 2004, at 23:26:57
I was not aware of the double quotes feature.
I will try it with this post. Book referred to earlier on cognitive therapy: "The Feeling Good Handbook".Thanks
Posted by fires on June 8, 2004, at 12:39:23
In reply to Re: LucyStone - Re: Bothered, posted by Miss Honeychurch on June 8, 2004, at 2:16:53
To avoid sounding condescending I included the statement about what my PDoc might think with the ;).
Like my former MD was known to say about disagreements: "Well, that's what makes a horserace."
Best wishes
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 9, 2004, at 22:20:52
In reply to Re: LucyStone - Re: Bothered, posted by Miss Honeychurch on June 8, 2004, at 2:16:53
> Well, that DID come off as condescending.
Keeping in mind that the idea here is not to post anything that could lead others to feel accused, could you please rephrase that?
If you have any questions or comments about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
or redirect a follow-up to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Thanks,
Bob
PS: Remember, if someone bothers you, it may be best just not to respond. Or even not to read their posts. There may be posters who try to start arguments and upset others. Of course, not everyone who starts arguments or upsets others *intends* to do so.
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on June 10, 2004, at 8:31:24
In reply to Re: please rephrase that » Miss Honeychurch, posted by Dr. Bob on June 9, 2004, at 22:20:52
I'm not sure I know how to rephrase that.
"In my opinion, that sounded condescending?"
Posted by fires on June 10, 2004, at 11:00:57
In reply to Re: please rephrase that » Dr. Bob, posted by Miss Honeychurch on June 10, 2004, at 8:31:24
I understand. I just posted a message on another web forum in which my debater called me stupid, retarded, and idiotic. I merely replied, "I don't talk trash, have a good life."
thanks
Posted by Dinah on June 10, 2004, at 12:12:45
In reply to Re: please rephrase that » Dr. Bob, posted by Miss Honeychurch on June 10, 2004, at 8:31:24
I think what Dr. Bob is aiming for is an I statement, how you felt when you read the statement. Instead of a comment on the statement or the maker of the statement.
So I think, "I felt (insert adjective here) when I read that", rather than "I think the statement was condescending" or "I think you were condescending." Let me think of some good adjectives you could insert - hurt? belittled? (I'd have to get Dr. Bob's opinion on "belittled" or "condescended to").
Or a statement that you are very happy for the other person that they don't flip out over daily stressors or minor incidents, but that to you those things aren't minor, and you don't appreciate them being characterized as minor, or your reactions being characterized as flipping out over daily stressors. That you feel you do important work with your therapist and hate to see it described in that way. That you certainly don't wish to flip out over a minor occurence but would appreciate your person and your problems being treated with respect.
Perhaps you could wait for Dr. Bob to respond to this thread before saying more in case I'm giving you bad advice here.
And Dr. Bob, perhaps you can infer from my post here that it is my opinion that you might have missed some things on this thread. Perhaps you could revisit it?
Posted by fires on June 10, 2004, at 12:43:43
In reply to Re: some suggestions? - DR. BOB and » Miss Honeychurch, posted by Dinah on June 10, 2004, at 12:12:45
I'll wait for Dr. Bob. I'm not "getting" the idea, if it applies to me. (I didn't say that I found anything condescending.)
Thanks
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 12, 2004, at 8:23:41
In reply to Re: some suggestions? - DR. BOB and » Miss Honeychurch, posted by Dinah on June 10, 2004, at 12:12:45
> I think what Dr. Bob is aiming for is an I statement, how you felt when you read the statement. Instead of a comment on the statement or the maker of the statement.
Exactly right, thanks for clarifying.
> And Dr. Bob, perhaps you can infer from my post here that it is my opinion that you might have missed some things on this thread. Perhaps you could revisit it?
Sorry, could you be more specific? Maybe in an email if you'd rather not post it? Thanks,
Bob
PS: Remember, everyone, if someone bothers you, it may be best just not to respond. Or even not to read their posts. There may be posters who try to start arguments and upset others. Of course, not everyone who starts arguments or upsets others *intends* to do so.
Posted by fires on June 12, 2004, at 12:34:01
In reply to Re: please rephrase that again » Miss Honeychurch, posted by Dr. Bob on June 12, 2004, at 8:23:41
I am not shy about voicing my opinions. I don't expect everyone to agree with them. I feel that I state them in an assertive manner (which seems to irritate some folks). Perhaps I had too much assertiveness training.;) Also, The first English teacher I had after HS said to never start a statement of opinion with "In my opinion". She said that doing so is redundant. I can't bring myself to change. I find the statement IMHO ("in my humble opinion") to be extremely redundant -- whom among us is not "humble." ;)
Posted by karen_kay on June 12, 2004, at 19:36:23
In reply to Re: LucyStone - Re: Bothered, posted by fires on June 7, 2004, at 18:00:34
i've learned the reasons for my anxiety. i remembered events from my childhood that directly caused me to be overly-anxious. it had a lot to do with me not feeling in control, which would cause me to 'flip out'. i don't mean raging or ranting, but i'd pace entirely too much if i felt that circumstances brought to me a feeling of not being in control. and there were other indicators that caused me to almost lose touch with reality, in a sense. showering (and closing my eyes in the shower was not an option. when washing my face, i'd have to wash half my face at a time so that i always had one eye open.) was a traumatic experience in itself for me. and i never could figure out why, until i was forced to talk in great detail about my past (what little i could remember). or, the fear of going to sleep, even with a light on. i realized why i would feel my heart racing and why i had to sleep with a light on.
any matter in which i felt i had no control (over my body or the situation) caused me utter panic. i'd pace. i'd cry. i would find it hard to breathe or even move. it's funny (you brought back some things, sorry if you find this boring) that i can still remember laying in bed and being fearful for my life. even with a light on, i would time my breathing to be sure no one could hear me breathe. i wouldn't move even if i had a cramp or an itch.
and vacuuming or drying my hair (anything that made noise and i wasn't able to hear what was going on around me) for a while was out of the question. in a sense, i was terrified somethign was coming to get me. and when i first started therapy, i thought that something was the devil or the boogey man. i realized, through therapy, just what i was afraid of (my father). i've realized that he isn't coming to get me. i've realized that i no longer have to live in fear. and i realized all of this the moment i understood what i was afraid of and why. (and i really thought i was going crazy before i realized what it was i was afraid of.)
so, to answer your question, i'd flip out when i was in a situation that caused me to feel as though i had no control (probably also stemming from my mother) and i'd become anxious when i wasn't completely aware of my surroundings. once i realized what i was afraid of, i haven't had that problem.
btw, i didn't take your comment to be condescending in any way.
Posted by fires on June 12, 2004, at 22:09:34
In reply to sorry, it takes a while.... » fires, posted by karen_kay on June 12, 2004, at 19:36:23
You said:
>>i've learned the reasons for my anxiety. i remembered events from my childhood that directly caused me to be overly-anxious.<<
I'm wondering how you learned the reasons. I'll be ok as long as you don't say you learned it while under hypnosis, or in therapy in which the therapist "led" you to "recover" these memories.
I don't want you to feel weird about why I'm asking the above, so let me explain. Years ago I attended a lecture at a Univ. here in so. Cal. at which an expert on memory(PDoc, neuroscientist, ?) spoke on "recovered memories". He and most experts believe that there is no such thing. Think about it, have you somehow suppressed any of your most recent disturbing memories? The speaker said that it is impossible to suppress bad memories.*
Number 2 point is that I've done a lot of reading about False Memory Syndrome. This is a syndrome in which people can be easily led to believe that things happened in their past that never really did. Psychs some years back caused a major nationwide problem: children accusing innocent parents of molestation, etc.., because they were falsely led to believe that their parents really did do what they "remembered."*
* links available upon request
Thanks for sharing
Posted by karen_kay on June 13, 2004, at 14:18:55
In reply to Re: sorry, it takes a while...., posted by fires on June 12, 2004, at 22:09:34
and frequently asked bubba (my therapist) about whether these memories could be false. but, he did not lead me in anyway, shape or form. also, i was not under hypnosis at any point in therapy (nor ever actually).
and beleive me, we spent alot of time with me questioning him over and over, because in my mind i had severe concerns about 'false' memories. but, one day, while discussing things with my friend, she said she remembered me telling her about certain things that happened. (i swear, i don't recall ever telling her a single thing, but she knew too much for it to just be a coincidence)
and i have an older sister who was abused, but spoke up when it happened. my other sister demonstrates the same memory loss as i, and frequently while growing up forgot how to get home (we lived in a very small town).
so, i was VERY concerned about false memories. he didn't lead me in any way, just encouraged me to talk about my father (who when i began was a saint). he never once even mentioned the possibility of abuse, until i began to remember daddy watching me take a bath and i specifically started to remember other things that happened. and i still had my doubts until i talked to a friend about therapy and the situation and she said 'you told me aobut that once in school.'
so, i too was very skeptical about these recovered memories. but, i don't believe everything someone says, just because they have a degree or are lecturing about a specific subject. i can say with honesty that perhaps some recovered memories are false (as there is proof that i've read aobut). i just have too much proof that mine aren't. but, i would be very happy if they were!
Posted by antigua on June 13, 2004, at 18:17:58
In reply to Re: sorry, it takes a while...., posted by fires on June 12, 2004, at 22:09:34
Don't need links. They're everywhere and they do a lot of damage to people who've experienced trauma. If you've never experienced trauma, or recovered memories, I would hope you that you would be as kind as other people have been to you on this site. Speaking from experience is the strongest point of reference.
antigua
Posted by Jai Narayan on June 13, 2004, at 20:03:30
In reply to i too was concerned about that.. *trigger?* » fires, posted by karen_kay on June 13, 2004, at 14:18:55
Posted by pegasus on June 13, 2004, at 22:14:25
In reply to Re: sorry, it takes a while...., posted by fires on June 12, 2004, at 22:09:34
I believe that it is incorrect to say that most experts do not believe in recovered memories. Here is a link to just one of many sites discussing publications by experts in the field of trauma and recovery that do recognize the frequency of amnesia and delayed recall for traumatic events: http://www.jimhopper.com/memory/
Perhaps delayed recall of traumatic events is not the same thing as the "recovered memories" that you mention. I believe that in most of the publications mentioned above, the memories that are recollected are not drawn out by any intervention of a therapist of any sort. Rather they are recollected independently by the clients on their own. Although in most cases these clients were in therapy -- just not being led or prompted by their therapists to recover any memories.
I think also that most experts do agree that some "recovered memories" that have been reported in the past have turned out to be false. But that is a far cry from believing that there is no such thing as a recovered memory.
pegasus
Posted by DaisyM on June 14, 2004, at 15:13:09
In reply to Re: sorry, it takes a while...., posted by fires on June 12, 2004, at 22:09:34
I'm going to add my voice here...I've done a ton of studying on brain development and there is a great deal of research about how early trauma can actual change the shape and size of certain brain centers. We do lay down traumatic memories in a different way and we do protect ourselves by leaving them fairly inaccessible. Think about a non-traumatic memory, say a movie you've seen. You start talking about it with someone, who says, "Yeah, remember this part...and you say Oh, yeah, I forgot about that" and so it goes. Memory recall is a process.
I would have told you a year ago that I knew exactly what happened to me. Turns out I did, but there is a lot more that I blocked out. It makes one suffer to keep adding new knowledge to already hard to accept facts.
There are also, btw, protocols for therapists to follow when doing this kind of work. They ask questions like "what else do you want to tell me? or do you remember anything else?" not, "do you thinks such and such happened." They aren't supposed to suggest but they do clarify when the facts are presented, or reframe. They help you speak the truth and then believe it yourself. They also are not supposed to push. Letting stuff come in bits and pieces is important because the person remembering has to be able to handle it. It can be overwhelming and utterly devastating.
I know.
Posted by fires on June 14, 2004, at 15:15:31
In reply to Re: sorry, it takes a while.... » fires, posted by pegasus on June 13, 2004, at 22:14:25
I thought that my reply to the earlier poster got thru, but it apparently didn't. She had told me that links to false memory syn. and recovered memories were very damaging to trauma victims.
If she is still reading this , my question is WHY? If you believe that the links I post are not scientifically valid than You can disregard them. I can't make anyone believe anything that they choose not to. (If you don't want to see my links, quit reading here)
My brother died yesterday at 05:35 PDT, at home with me. He had eophageal cancer for about 4 + years. Hospice personnel did not arrive before he passed. My subconscious/unconscious will NEVER be able to let me forgot the memory of his passing. I will spare all the details.
In memory of my brother I would like to post the following 2 links: (he would want me to, as he too was a "freethiner")
http://skepdic.com/falsememory.html
http://skepdic.com/repress.html
pegasus, I hope I have responded to your post in addition to the previous post mentioned.(by posting the links).
Best wishes
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