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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by fallsfall on October 20, 2003, at 20:21:35
Sometimes things are clearer in the middle of the night.
3:30AM. My dog gets up and checks the water bowl in my room. It is empty, so she goes into the bathroom and drinks from the toilet. I listen to her drink, but I’m too tired to get out of bed. I call to her to stop, but she doesn’t. What a failure. I can’t even give my dogs water when they need it. I have found the bowl downstairs empty a lot recently – I haven’t been filling it on time. So probably the bowl downstairs has been empty for a long time. Who can blame the dog for going for the toilet? She stops drinking (she drank a lot). I finally wake up enough to get up and fill the bowl. Both dogs have long drinks. I refill the bowl. What a failure. I need my therapist. I get his picture out hoping that looking at it will fill the need until I can see him. My head hurts and I drift in and out of sleep until 6. (When I get downstairs in the morning I find that there is water in their water bowl downstairs. The door to my bedroom was open, she could have gone downstairs for a drink of clean water – but the toilet was closer.)
So, let's see. I NEED my therapist because my dog drinks out of the toilet?
I buy a book at a yardsale (95 cents) on career choices. I'm not sure that I can go back to my old field when I'm ready to work full time, so this seemed like a book that could be handy. It is based on the Myers-Briggs Test (that determines what your personality type is, and then you can match your personality to jobs that will work well for you). I chose the type that seemed best for me and read that section. It lists all the characteristics of that kind of person and as I read them they all seemed to fit. Then I drifted into the next type’s description (related to the first type) and everything still seemed to fit. But it wasn’t supposed to. Those things should have fit less. So I’m trying to read, but it really isn’t making any sense. I’m getting confused. I am reading the words without understanding the sentences. I get frustrated. I can’t even read this book and make sense of it. How incompetent I am. I get depressed and start thinking about my therapist. I need him to make me feel better.
I NEED my therapist because I can't make sense of a book on career choices?
Revelation: I become needy when I feel incompetent. Desperately needy - the world will end if I don't take care of this need. I expect/need my therapist to “fix” me so that I am no longer incompetent (make me think better so I understand things, help me understand the environment so I can work more perfectly in it). He can’t do that. Because I can’t be perfect (this is still a very hard concept for me). What I really need is for him to let/help me see that what I am doing isn’t incompetent (isn’t a failure).
When I told my therapist about this, I prefaced it with a statement that probably everyone else in the world already knew this, but I didn't. So would he please not tell me "Duh!". That way I wouldn't feel incompetent.
Posted by Dinah on October 20, 2003, at 20:31:28
In reply to My Revelation, posted by fallsfall on October 20, 2003, at 20:21:35
Sounds like one of the valuable middle of the night revelations. :)
You are absolutely positively right. And your insight should really help the course of your therapy, since you're clearer on both what you want and what you really need.
And of course, you also need to accept that sometimes you will be less than competent. Gasp!!!! And that that is *OK*. Being human means screwing up from time to time. I think it's in the rules somewhere. ?
Do you ever wonder if maybe it's not beneficial for kids to fail spectacularly from time to time and see that the world does not, in fact, end? Unfortunately, in my most spectacular failures, the world might as well have ended so I didn't learn that important lesson. :( But I'm getting better at failing all the time!!
Posted by cubic_me on October 21, 2003, at 5:20:27
In reply to My Revelation, posted by fallsfall on October 20, 2003, at 20:21:35
Ok, so you need your therapist because your dog drinks out of the toilet? We both know thats nonsense, its the things behind that that make you need your therapist. He can make you feel safe and that how you are managing is ok. I read before that he didnt seem too concerned that you weren't keeping the house up together, even though that was important to you. Is there a way you could make him see how important these little things are for you and how hopeless and needy they make you feel?
_me
PS my cat drinks out the toilet sometimes too, maybe its tastier!
Posted by Penny on October 21, 2003, at 8:17:07
In reply to My Revelation, posted by fallsfall on October 20, 2003, at 20:21:35
Forgive me, dear fallsfall, for laughing, but when I pictured the dog drinking out of the toliet, it just cracked me up. When I was babysitting a couple of weeks ago, the family dog did the same thing. It was just so funny. Makes me think of that commercial, "You're not as clean as you think..." :-D
That said - your dog drinking out of the toliet is not a sign that you are a failure. Me? My little Penny has started peeing on the floor again - that IS a sign that I need to get up earlier to take her outside. But your dogs had water downstairs. They were just being dogs...
I'm sure if mine were tall enough to drink out of the toliet, they would also.
It's good that you know what you need from your therapist. To need him to reaffirm that you are not incompetent, that you are functioning okay, is great! I need mine to reassure me that I am not a terrible person. She tries...
Now, YOUR job is to let that in. When he tries to help you accept that you are not perfect, but that not being perfect is NOT a failure, you need to LET THAT IN. I, too, hate not being perfect. I am SOOOO far from perfect, but that is just one more piece of evidence to me that the world wouldn't miss my presence. Then I must remind myself that NO ONE IS PERFECT!!! - so unless I think the world would be better with no people, I have to see the error in my thinking.
Sure. Error in my thinking.
But, the world is blessed to have YOU in it, dear one. Imperfect as you are. :)
(((fallsfall)))
What did your T say when you told him that? I assume he didn't say "Duh..."
P
Posted by fallsfall on October 21, 2003, at 8:36:21
In reply to Re: My Revelation » fallsfall, posted by cubic_me on October 21, 2003, at 5:20:27
Yummmmm
My therapist isn't too concerned about ADLs (eating, sleeping, cleaning etc.). My old therapist spent a lot of time with me on ADLs. I think that some of MY concern is because she taught me that I should worry about this. Perhaps I don't do well with ADLs because it guaranteed me concern and attention from her.
My new therapist IS more concerned with the underlying things. He wants to spend time on those - instead of ADLs. I think his focus is correct.
We did talk about my dog and the toilet in the last session. And I told him that feeling incompetent was what made me "need" him. This was new information for me - I don't know if it was new for him. Then there were only 10 minutes left in the session, so I told him a bunch of things that I haven't had time to talk about (like I got more information from my parents about my hospitalization for Meningitis at age 2, and why I won't make eye contact with him). I've been saving these things up and I know that he needs to know about them - but I never have time to tell him. At the end he made a comment about how the historical stuff is interesting and important (and he wants to talk more about the hospitalization), but that he really wants to focus on "affect" in the sessions. Maybe he's frustrated that he couldn't make me cry in the last two sessions. Seriously, I know that he is right - that I learn the most when we do the "affect" thing. I guess that I'm confused about how important my revelations are - do we make more progress if I DON'T know what is going on underneath? Or is it important for me to know, but not something we should take up session time for (if that is the case, then how do I know if my revelations are on target or not)? Or should I talk about them, but not in so much detail? See? He makes me feel incompetent - after almost 9 years of therapy (granted, only 3 months with him) I still don't know what I'm supposed to talk about and what I'm not. Maybe I should whip myself into a tizzy about this (not knowing what to talk about) - then he'd get his "affect" on Thursday.
I do know that I'm not being fair to myself. I did know what my old therapist considered important and unimportant. This guy is looking for something completely different - and that is why I switched therapists. So, I am doing better - I can recognize when I'm being too hard on myself and that does makes me feel less incompetent. Isn't that what we are working towards? But then again, if I feel less incompetent then I won't have the affect that he's looking for. Do you see why I'm confused? It's like, in order to get better I have to not be better.
Posted by fallsfall on October 21, 2003, at 8:49:11
In reply to Re: My Revelation » fallsfall, posted by Penny on October 21, 2003, at 8:17:07
No, he didn't say "Duh", but he also didn't say "That is an important insight" or "Knowing that will help our work" or "I'm glad that you understand this". He asked some clarification questions (like, why was looking at his picture supposed to help, and does my mood crash like that often, etc.) - so I know he was listening. But I don't know (as Dinah would say) if I was a "good girl in therapy".
>>Now, YOUR job is to let that in. When he tries to help you accept that you are not perfect, but that not being perfect is NOT a failure, you need to LET THAT IN.
Why can't I have an EASY job? I'm trying, but I'm not perfect (and yes, it still feels like a failure). ARGH.
Posted by noa on October 21, 2003, at 23:07:11
In reply to My Revelation, posted by fallsfall on October 20, 2003, at 20:21:35
If it's any consolation, I don't feel I fit the Myers Briggs types so easily either. I think this is partly because of the way the test is designed and partly because of my own idiosyncracies.
To come out as one thing vs. its opposite, all you have to do is score on one side of 50% for that trait. You could be pretty close to the 50% mark, ie, somewhat one side, somewhat the other, but you have to choose. Also, each of the items is a forced choice and I find that under certain conditions, I am more one way and under other conditions, I am another way.
Also, my traits are mood dependent and dependent on certain situations. So I might be more analytical sometimes, and more intuitive another.
The test is interesting because it can be used in good ways to help prod some thinking about what would be a good fit for you, but don't get caught up in the specific types per se.
BTW--I would not consider you a failure for not wanting to get out of bed to refill the water. It was 3 am!!
Your writing is great, btw--I hope you enjoy it because you are good at it!
Posted by noa on October 21, 2003, at 23:10:04
In reply to Re: My Revelation » cubic_me, posted by fallsfall on October 21, 2003, at 8:36:21
BTW--one of my recurring dreams, I just realized, is that I suddenly remember that I have a pet (dog or cat) and that because I'd forgotten about it, of course I realize that I had not been feeding it or giving it water for a long time. Somehow it survives but I feel so guilty!
Analyze that!
Posted by deirdrehbrt on October 22, 2003, at 21:06:17
In reply to Re: My Revelation, posted by noa on October 21, 2003, at 23:10:04
Fallsfal,
My cat sometimes drinks from the toilet too. Sometimes it is because I forgot to fill her bowl; She doesn't remind me to fill her water bowl as she does with her food bowl. The thing that concerns her most is whether or not she has a convenient place to sleep.
She also drinks outside, and in a pinch, if I forget to feed her, she'll pick up some 'fast food', being anything she can catch. Still I do like to keep her food bowl full.
I suspect that your dogs are quite happy living with you. First, you care very much about them. Please don't let your innocent lapses cause you deep concern. You are very far from providing them an abusive environment.
I don't think, either, that your therapist views you as being unproductive. You are working very hard, and I think he knows that. He might just have a different style, and you are still on the learning curve. You don't need to expect to be perfect to be wonderfull.
Take care.
Posted by fallsfall on October 22, 2003, at 23:13:15
In reply to Re: My Revelation, posted by noa on October 21, 2003, at 23:10:04
Probably my only recurring dream has to do with taking a class or classes and figuring out the day before the final that I haven't gone to the class all semester and I have no idea what's going on.
Thanks for the Myers-Briggs support. That does make me feel better.
Posted by fallsfall on October 22, 2003, at 23:17:44
In reply to Re: My Revelation, posted by deirdrehbrt on October 22, 2003, at 21:06:17
It's less that forgetting to fill the bowl is concerning to me, than it is that the level of distress I had over forgetting was way out of proportion for what was reasonable. Clearly it was kicking up something else.
It is really hard to get used to a new therapist when you were with the old one for so long. You forget what it is like to start anew (and this is the first time I have ever started again with an individual therapist. - Starting with a new group therapist is different). I just really know that he can help me make a lot of progress, if I can meet his standards (he really does expect a lot, and doesn't give many strokes.)
Thanks for your support.
Posted by cubic_me on October 23, 2003, at 8:38:36
In reply to Re: My Revelation » cubic_me, posted by fallsfall on October 21, 2003, at 8:36:21
I can see why you're confused, trying to figure out what other people want and how that affects you IS confusing. I find the whole issue of time hard too - what's relevant, what can wait until next session, what I dont really want her to know just yet etc.
You mentioned 'affect' in the sessions. By that do you mean he makes you really feel things and makes you cry? Do you have to cry to make progress in sessions? I've never cried in session but I think I would resent anyone who deliberately tried to make me cry, just so we might make abit more progress. Maybe you could ask him what he thinks about the revelations you have. If you really want to tell him about something you've found out about yourself I think you should - it'll make you feel better in the short term at least. If you work yourself up about all of this, will it really move you on? Or will you be going backwards to go forwards? Maybe you made such big leaps before when you tried 'affect' because that was right at the time. I dont know, but maybe you've moved past that now, or have to move abit slower before you can make bigger steps again - just a thought.
I think your new therapist's approach to ADL's is correct also, especially if your old therapist's approach made you less likely to do them.
_me
Posted by noa on October 23, 2003, at 12:16:57
In reply to Re: My Revelation » noa, posted by fallsfall on October 22, 2003, at 23:13:15
Your welcome.
I have similar recurring school dreams, too.
This is the end of the thread.
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