![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on August 22, 2008, at 9:00:12
In doing some research on vasomotor rhinitis, I discovered a link to a number of other health problems I have, and to anxiety and depression, in that all have something to do with the autonomic nervous system, acetylcholine, or some articles suggest a lack of balance between the parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous systems.
Which made me start wondering about the link to this possible underlying biological problem that may also affect my mental health, and my reactions to various types of medications. For example, my bad reaction to NE containing drugs and my good reaction to the antipsychotics as major tranquilizers.
While I know other people have totally different reactions to NE and AP's.
I was wondering if we could do some informal sort of survey to come up with an excel schedule or database, and try to figure out some correlations ourselves. I think most of us complain that doctors treat us as if anxiety or depression were a single entity rather than an expression of what could be any number of problems. They've broken down headaches by type and cause. Why couldn't we try to figure out some real life breakdown of depression and anxiety, by compiling our own experiences? Clearly, we're too small a sample size to have any major scientific value. But mightn't it be interesting? I think Dr. Bob is thinking about profiles, but until he starts them, maybe we could just post on a single thread some things about the qualities of our anxiety or depression, what medications work or don't work for us, and physical conditions that could conceivably be related?
I'm no good at the science, and my eyes glaze over if I try to figure out about receptors, or what neurochemicals affect other neurochemicals. But I'm not bad at compiling data, or manipulating it.
Posted by bleauberry on August 25, 2008, at 20:37:18
In reply to An idea for our own unofficial research, posted by Dinah on August 22, 2008, at 9:00:12
> or some articles suggest a lack of balance between the parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous systems.
>
>I think most of us complain that doctors treat us as if anxiety or depression were a single entity rather than an expression of what could be any number of problems.
>Excellent. Well said.
My feelings exactly. The last pdoc I saw said bipolar actually was not much more than the HPA axis control center for hormones, primarily cortisol, out of sync. The whacky hormone waves then affect the neurotransmitters downstream, as well as everything else such as appetite, sleep, weight, energy, everything. All of course items used to diagnose bipolar, depression, and anxiety.
Most drugs have an effect on the HPA axis, either directly, or by negative feedback loops created by manipulating the neurotransmitters with meds. So with some people their depression may improve with a certain med, not due to how it increased a neurotransmitter, but how that increased neurotransmitter impacted the control center for hormones. Drugs especially strong in this regard include Lexapro, Nardil, Reboxetine, and Milnacipran, and Mirtazapine. They all just happen to be top line meds. Coincidence?
Hormones and various systems are so complicated though and hard to test. For example if a doc took a cortisol test, or a dex cortisol suppression challenge test, it is meaningless. What matters is seeing the cortisol curve over a typical 24 hour period, which means taking samples at least 4 times throughout a day, not just once. I have only seen that done in the integrative and naturpathic fields, but it seems fairly unknown in modern medicine. And with another vitally important body-wide and brain-wide hormone, thyroid, we can measure it in the blood, but we cannot see it in the cell where it is received, or maybe not received when it should have been. Ya know? All psych meds have some effects on all this stuff.
Posted by obsidian on August 27, 2008, at 22:15:11
In reply to An idea for our own unofficial research, posted by Dinah on August 22, 2008, at 9:00:12
you've got a good idea there
you described it well, I couldn't, but you did
I hope dr bob does do some type of profile thing
Posted by Racer on September 8, 2008, at 12:02:11
In reply to An idea for our own unofficial research, posted by Dinah on August 22, 2008, at 9:00:12
I'd love to collaborate with you on this, if you get it going.
My suggestion -- made on first reading and knowing I have to get off the computer and on with my day -- is that we formulate a template for the information that we're trying to collect. That usually helps me -- if you ask me, "what's wrong?" I am likely to say, "I'm suffering depression" or "my anxiety is increased." If you ask, "What are your current symptoms?" I might have an easier time thinking in terms of what I'm really experiencing.
I think this is a great idea, and I'll be part of it if you'll have me -- AFTER I clean the bathroom and vacuum.
Posted by B2chica on October 23, 2008, at 10:54:46
In reply to An idea for our own unofficial research, posted by Dinah on August 22, 2008, at 9:00:12
i have extensive research knowledge maybe you and i can talk with what you need to get going.
i know in my case i hate that i don't know more about this stuff. i KNOW it has to do with my dopamine/prolactin levels, cuz when i was pregnant and nursing (off all meds) i was never and i mean NEVER better. the month my daughter weaned off my depression came back with a vengence, hit hard and fast.
zyprexa is the only thing that has worked Great for me the last five years. so i'm looking at DA1 as my hit point.
Posted by raisinb on November 7, 2008, at 21:07:18
In reply to im in too.... » Dinah, posted by B2chica on October 23, 2008, at 10:54:46
Did you guys get this going? I'm in, if you do.
Posted by Dima on April 4, 2009, at 15:42:36
In reply to Re: im in too...., posted by raisinb on November 7, 2008, at 21:07:18
> Did you guys get this going? I'm in, if you do.
Same here.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Neurotransmitters | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.