![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by PeaceSeeker on May 15, 2008, at 17:39:07
The spiritual existence interacts with your spirit which allows it to tap into its mind revealing the beauty of the universe with its billions of stars with several of them having planets with various life forms. Your spirit is bedazzled by the love interaction and unison of all souls within this community working toward the further development of this vast amazing universe. Way off in the distance you are directed to a tiny speck within the great expanse circling a star to which you are drawn and you recognize this speck to be the earth where your people reside.
You are shown mans millennium long struggles to be the correct ways of having their souls get into Heaven; this spiritual community that you are now experiencing that man has called God. You see the beginning of mankind; several groupings develop with each claiming to know the correct way to God. Dispute escalates to a point where ill will causes men to kill each other in the name of God; millions are annihilated over time, you see sufferings and more killing to the point where this gruesomeness sickens you.
It is time for mankind to reassess its definition of God and what constitutes God, or the Intelligent Designer. Faith has existed since the beginning of man and will exist until man's extinction. Spirituality, faith and believing in God does not necessarily equate to subscribing to a hierarchy; this idea, IMHO, will be eliminated as man eliminates its superstitions. A logical, rational, modern God is a spiritual unity that is self-sustaining and needs nothing from mankind.
Transcendology is a tenet of spiritual transcendence that asserts that truthfulness and rationality in religions are truths that can be substantiated by science or those that can not be proven to be incorrect. It dictates that spiritual interaction is only possible between the Spirit of God and the spirit of man; claims of supernatural acts performed by physical or spiritual beings in the physical universe are not prudent.
If Transcendology is accepted by religions, they become "rational religions".
Posted by PeaceSeeker on May 15, 2008, at 17:43:45
In reply to Love And Logic Can Unify Religions, posted by PeaceSeeker on May 15, 2008, at 17:39:07
I believe that in order to explore the nature of individual and collective values and beliefs and find the unifying bond therein there has to be a commonality amongst Judeo-Christian and Muslim principles. This is already the case; the three major religions hold to a monotheistic guide of the universe. The further unifier could be entertaining the possibility of both a historical man named Jesus...and a Divinely appointed one". By giving credence and equal validity to each perspective, some harmony in the varying faiths could be accomplished. A dermatologist in Iraq believes that the Urantia "United" Book could be the initial starting point in this process. He informed me that he has downloaded it from http://urantia.us had several books printed at his own expense and has anonymously distributed them to his English-speaking colleagues there and dialogue is promising. The beauty of the Urantia United book is that it is condensed into 641 pages; it has edited out politically incorrect phrasing, and it analyses Jesus in the historical and divine perspective.
Your thoughts thereon are greatly appreciated.
Posted by SLS on May 16, 2008, at 5:09:55
In reply to Re: Love And Logic Can Unify Religions, posted by PeaceSeeker on May 15, 2008, at 17:43:45
It might be difficult to merge religions whose major tenets involve divine intervention.
- Scott
Posted by PeaceSeeker on May 16, 2008, at 9:56:56
In reply to Re: Love And Logic Can Unify Religions, posted by SLS on May 16, 2008, at 5:09:55
> It might be difficult to merge religions whose major tenets involve divine intervention.
>
> - ScottTranscendology is a study to ascertain if of our mind has the ability to transcend the physical realm. Have you ever wondered if the spiritual jargon that your parents and the church have indoctrinated you into is the unadulterated truth? Does our spirit really have the capability to interact with another, a spiritual dimension? Have our spiritual leaders, Abraham, Moses or Jesus really interacted with something that mankind calls God? Today most people automatically doubt anyones story of seeing God. If God were ever seen, wouldnt it have to be via our spirit?
Divine intervention is only possible between the spirit of God and mans spirit, or God would be violating his own laws of nature.
Kurt
Posted by SLS on May 16, 2008, at 10:09:42
In reply to Re: Love And Logic Can Unify Religions » SLS, posted by PeaceSeeker on May 16, 2008, at 9:56:56
> > It might be difficult to merge religions whose major tenets involve divine intervention.
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Transcendology is a study to ascertain if of our mind has the ability to transcend the physical realm. Have you ever wondered if the spiritual jargon that your parents and the church have indoctrinated you into is the unadulterated truth? Does our spirit really have the capability to interact with another, a spiritual dimension? Have our spiritual leaders, Abraham, Moses or Jesus really interacted with something that mankind calls God? Today most people automatically doubt anyones story of seeing God. If God were ever seen, wouldnt it have to be via our spirit?
>
> Divine intervention is only possible between the spirit of God and mans spirit, or God would be violating his own laws of nature.
>
> Kurt:-)
It seems that our perspectives are quite similar.
- Scott
Posted by bulldog2 on May 24, 2008, at 9:00:51
In reply to Love And Logic Can Unify Religions, posted by PeaceSeeker on May 15, 2008, at 17:39:07
> The spiritual existence interacts with your spirit which allows it to tap into its mind revealing the beauty of the universe with its billions of stars with several of them having planets with various life forms. Your spirit is bedazzled by the love interaction and unison of all souls within this community working toward the further development of this vast amazing universe. Way off in the distance you are directed to a tiny speck within the great expanse circling a star to which you are drawn and you recognize this speck to be the earth where your people reside.
>
> You are shown mans millennium long struggles to be the correct ways of having their souls get into Heaven; this spiritual community that you are now experiencing that man has called God. You see the beginning of mankind; several groupings develop with each claiming to know the correct way to God. Dispute escalates to a point where ill will causes men to kill each other in the name of God; millions are annihilated over time, you see sufferings and more killing to the point where this gruesomeness sickens you.
>
> It is time for mankind to reassess its definition of God and what constitutes God, or the Intelligent Designer. Faith has existed since the beginning of man and will exist until man's extinction. Spirituality, faith and believing in God does not necessarily equate to subscribing to a hierarchy; this idea, IMHO, will be eliminated as man eliminates its superstitions. A logical, rational, modern God is a spiritual unity that is self-sustaining and needs nothing from mankind.
>
> Transcendology is a tenet of spiritual transcendence that asserts that truthfulness and rationality in religions are truths that can be substantiated by science or those that can not be proven to be incorrect. It dictates that spiritual interaction is only possible between the Spirit of God and the spirit of man; claims of supernatural acts performed by physical or spiritual beings in the physical universe are not prudent.
>
> If Transcendology is accepted by religions, they become "rational religions".
>Most organized religions as practiced today have lost the true message of the prophets or have misinterpreted them. I'm reading a book by Eckhart Tolle "A New Earth" that is giving me a new perspective on a spiritual life. He belives devine consciousness is within us and we are part of an infinite consciousness. However we have constructed egos which are very limiting and have identified with ego as self. Once we learn to disconnect from ego as self we can experience the infinite consciousness.Another benefit of this is letting go of the insanity of the world (group ego consciousness).
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 24, 2008, at 10:45:42
In reply to Re: Love And Logic Can Unify Religions, posted by bulldog2 on May 24, 2008, at 9:00:51
> > The spiritual existence interacts with your spirit which allows it to tap into its mind revealing the beauty of the universe with its billions of stars with several of them having planets with various life forms. Your spirit is bedazzled by the love interaction and unison of all souls within this community working toward the further development of this vast amazing universe. Way off in the distance you are directed to a tiny speck within the great expanse circling a star to which you are drawn and you recognize this speck to be the earth where your people reside.
> >
> > You are shown mans millennium long struggles to be the correct ways of having their souls get into Heaven; this spiritual community that you are now experiencing that man has called God. You see the beginning of mankind; several groupings develop with each claiming to know the correct way to God. Dispute escalates to a point where ill will causes men to kill each other in the name of God; millions are annihilated over time, you see sufferings and more killing to the point where this gruesomeness sickens you.
> >
> > It is time for mankind to reassess its definition of God and what constitutes God, or the Intelligent Designer. Faith has existed since the beginning of man and will exist until man's extinction. Spirituality, faith and believing in God does not necessarily equate to subscribing to a hierarchy; this idea, IMHO, will be eliminated as man eliminates its superstitions. A logical, rational, modern God is a spiritual unity that is self-sustaining and needs nothing from mankind.
> >
> > Transcendology is a tenet of spiritual transcendence that asserts that truthfulness and rationality in religions are truths that can be substantiated by science or those that can not be proven to be incorrect. It dictates that spiritual interaction is only possible between the Spirit of God and the spirit of man; claims of supernatural acts performed by physical or spiritual beings in the physical universe are not prudent.
> >
> > If Transcendology is accepted by religions, they become "rational religions".
> >
>
> Most organized religions as practiced today have lost the true message of the prophets or have misinterpreted them. I'm reading a book by Eckhart Tolle "A New Earth" that is giving me a new perspective on a spiritual life. He belives devine consciousness is within us and we are part of an infinite consciousness. However we have constructed egos which are very limiting and have identified with ego as self. Once we learn to disconnect from ego as self we can experience the infinite consciousness.Another benefit of this is letting go of the insanity of the world (group ego consciousness).bulldog2,
You wrote,[...Most organized religions...have lost the true message of the prophets or have misinterpreted them...]
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean here and have the following concerns. If you could reply to the following with the requested clarification, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
A. In your statement,[...Most organized religions...], the generally accepted meaning of {most} is the majority. This could mean that a little over one-half of the organized religions, according to your thinking,could fall into that catagory. I ask:
1.Could you list which of those that fall into the catagory, in your thinking, of {most}? If you could, then I could respond accordingly.
B.In your statement,[...have lost the true message...], could you post here:
2. The authority that you use, if any, to write that statement?
C. In,[...the prophets...], could you post here a list of the prophets that you are referring to? If you could, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
D. In ,[...misinterpreted them...], could you post here what the misinterpretation is? If you could, then I could have the oportunity to respond accordingly.
Lou
Posted by Sigismund on May 24, 2008, at 18:59:11
In reply to Lou's request for clarification-awppbobaluma » bulldog2, posted by Lou Pilder on May 24, 2008, at 10:45:42
Well Lou
Do you think Jesus was
A. A great sportsman
B. A believer in the free market.
C. In favour of forward deterrance.
D. An opponent of Godless communism?
Imagine that Jesus can see all this.
He would weep.
Posted by Sigismund on May 24, 2008, at 19:08:14
In reply to Re: Lou's request for clarification-awppbobaluma » Lou Pilder, posted by Sigismund on May 24, 2008, at 18:59:11
Actually Lou, I have been guilty of the straw man fallacy there I think.
But Jesus was one of the least manichean thinkers, and yet his thought has consistently been pressed into that mould.
Posted by bulldog2 on May 24, 2008, at 19:16:45
In reply to Lou's request for clarification-awppbobaluma » bulldog2, posted by Lou Pilder on May 24, 2008, at 10:45:42
> > > The spiritual existence interacts with your spirit which allows it to tap into its mind revealing the beauty of the universe with its billions of stars with several of them having planets with various life forms. Your spirit is bedazzled by the love interaction and unison of all souls within this community working toward the further development of this vast amazing universe. Way off in the distance you are directed to a tiny speck within the great expanse circling a star to which you are drawn and you recognize this speck to be the earth where your people reside.
> > >
> > > You are shown mans millennium long struggles to be the correct ways of having their souls get into Heaven; this spiritual community that you are now experiencing that man has called God. You see the beginning of mankind; several groupings develop with each claiming to know the correct way to God. Dispute escalates to a point where ill will causes men to kill each other in the name of God; millions are annihilated over time, you see sufferings and more killing to the point where this gruesomeness sickens you.
> > >
> > > It is time for mankind to reassess its definition of God and what constitutes God, or the Intelligent Designer. Faith has existed since the beginning of man and will exist until man's extinction. Spirituality, faith and believing in God does not necessarily equate to subscribing to a hierarchy; this idea, IMHO, will be eliminated as man eliminates its superstitions. A logical, rational, modern God is a spiritual unity that is self-sustaining and needs nothing from mankind.
> > >
> > > Transcendology is a tenet of spiritual transcendence that asserts that truthfulness and rationality in religions are truths that can be substantiated by science or those that can not be proven to be incorrect. It dictates that spiritual interaction is only possible between the Spirit of God and the spirit of man; claims of supernatural acts performed by physical or spiritual beings in the physical universe are not prudent.
> > >
> > > If Transcendology is accepted by religions, they become "rational religions".
> > >
> >
> > Most organized religions as practiced today have lost the true message of the prophets or have misinterpreted them. I'm reading a book by Eckhart Tolle "A New Earth" that is giving me a new perspective on a spiritual life. He belives devine consciousness is within us and we are part of an infinite consciousness. However we have constructed egos which are very limiting and have identified with ego as self. Once we learn to disconnect from ego as self we can experience the infinite consciousness.Another benefit of this is letting go of the insanity of the world (group ego consciousness).
>
> bulldog2,
> You wrote,[...Most organized religions...have lost the true message of the prophets or have misinterpreted them...]
> I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean here and have the following concerns. If you could reply to the following with the requested clarification, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
> A. In your statement,[...Most organized religions...], the generally accepted meaning of {most} is the majority. This could mean that a little over one-half of the organized religions, according to your thinking,could fall into that catagory. I ask:
> 1.Could you list which of those that fall into the catagory, in your thinking, of {most}? If you could, then I could respond accordingly.
> B.In your statement,[...have lost the true message...], could you post here:
> 2. The authority that you use, if any, to write that statement?
> C. In,[...the prophets...], could you post here a list of the prophets that you are referring to? If you could, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
> D. In ,[...misinterpreted them...], could you post here what the misinterpretation is? If you could, then I could have the oportunity to respond accordingly.
> Lou
>
>
>Really can't even begin to answer your questions. You have to read his book to make a judgement for yourself. However the fact that we are fighting holy wars in the 21st century tells many that something is wrong (at least in my mind and many other minds). There should only be one reality in the end yet your major religions claim they have the ultimate truth. I don't know that I can intellectualize my feelings as I'm not that astute. However the bitterness and hatred that many feel for people of other faiths tells me we have lost the way. Did Jesus really intend that wars should be fought in his name? I mean just look at what is being done in the name of religion. Religion should bring sanity and peace into our lives not the insanity and chaos we call earth. That's what leads me to the conclusion we are not interpreting the lives of the prophets as they might have intended. I really cannot say more than read the book "a new earth" and judge for yourself.
Posted by Sigismund on May 24, 2008, at 21:31:44
In reply to Re: Lou's request for clarification-awppbobaluma, posted by bulldog2 on May 24, 2008, at 19:16:45
I've just come across two interesting quotes.
The first is from Lt- General William Boykin, (centrally involved in the interrogation techiques at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo)........
'.....the enemy is a spiritual enemy, he's called the principality of darkness. The enemy is a guy called Satan.'and, from G.W. Bush to Mahmoud Abbas in 2003....
'God told me to strike al-Queda and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did.'from "Black Mass" by John Gray.
The opening sentence of this book is.....
'Modern politics is a chapter in the history of religion.'
Posted by Sigismund on May 24, 2008, at 21:35:06
In reply to Manichean outlook?, posted by Sigismund on May 24, 2008, at 21:31:44
I read Eckhart Tolle's "The Power of Now" and quite liked it.
It seems to me that most forms of mysticism are saying the same thing, but perhaps using a different language or a different frame of reference.
Posted by Sigismund on May 24, 2008, at 22:00:46
In reply to Manichean outlook?, posted by Sigismund on May 24, 2008, at 21:31:44
Posted by bulldog2 on May 25, 2008, at 10:17:37
In reply to Eckart Tolle, posted by Sigismund on May 24, 2008, at 21:35:06
> I read Eckhart Tolle's "The Power of Now" and quite liked it.
>
> It seems to me that most forms of mysticism are saying the same thing, but perhaps using a different language or a different frame of reference.Yes I agree with you. I'm astounded at how some have perverted their message to justify their insane egos. Recently a minister who endorsed McCain said that God put Hitler on earth to kill the Jews so the survivors would found Israel.
Posted by Sigismund on May 25, 2008, at 16:02:37
In reply to Re: Eckart Tolle, posted by bulldog2 on May 25, 2008, at 10:17:37
> Recently a minister who endorsed McCain said that God put Hitler on earth to kill the Jews so the survivors would found Israel.
Yes, that was in the papers here.
(One way of looking at it could be that if the end of times is coming then Israel has to exist in control of Jerusalem and that's a very good thing because we want the end of the world to happen??)
I think an idea in "Black Mass" is that when a secular ideology loses sight of its religious roots it is in danger of becoming a religion itself.
(It's not an argument for or against religion.) It's quite a scarey book in a way.
Posted by bulldog2 on May 25, 2008, at 16:28:32
In reply to Apocalypse, posted by Sigismund on May 25, 2008, at 16:02:37
> > Recently a minister who endorsed McCain said that God put Hitler on earth to kill the Jews so the survivors would found Israel.
>
> Yes, that was in the papers here.
>
> (One way of looking at it could be that if the end of times is coming then Israel has to exist in control of Jerusalem and that's a very good thing because we want the end of the world to happen??)
>
>
>
> I think an idea in "Black Mass" is that when a secular ideology loses sight of its religious roots it is in danger of becoming a religion itself.
>
> (It's not an argument for or against religion.) It's quite a scarey book in a way.The implications can be a bit depressing in a way. If his assumptions are correct that this world is collective insanity (which does appear obvious most of the time) man's long term outlook is quite frightening.
Posted by fayeroe on May 26, 2008, at 9:38:34
In reply to Re: Apocalypse, posted by bulldog2 on May 25, 2008, at 16:28:32
> > > Recently a minister who endorsed McCain said that God put Hitler on earth to kill the Jews so the survivors would found Israel.
> >
> > Yes, that was in the papers here.
> >
> > (One way of looking at it could be that if the end of times is coming then Israel has to exist in control of Jerusalem and that's a very good thing because we want the end of the world to happen??)
> >
> >
> >
> > I think an idea in "Black Mass" is that when a secular ideology loses sight of its religious roots it is in danger of becoming a religion itself.
> >
> > (It's not an argument for or against religion.) It's quite a scarey book in a way.
>
> The implications can be a bit depressing in a way. If his assumptions are correct that this world is collective insanity (which does appear obvious most of the time) man's long term outlook is quite frightening."Did Jesus really intend that wars should be fought in his name?"
Bulldog, when Bush declared war on Iraq, my sisters took it to mean that it was right and just and God was endorsing it. I had to listen (or tune out) to endless lectures about their certainity that we were going to bring religious enlightenment to that region.
After 6 years of it, their beliefs have shifted ever so much and now they see our occupation as being aimless and fueled by "ungodly" beliefs. It helped them to live through two tours by my SIL as that brought it to their doorstep. Before Josh went to Iraq, one sister told me that if she didn't think about it, it wasn't there. She prayed about it.
I do not post this with the intention of being "against" aany religion , as I think that the occupation is much bigger than any minister who goes around saying outlandish things about different beliefs.
So count me in as not believing that Jesus wants us at war. Oh, count my sisters in also~
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 30, 2008, at 0:22:34
In reply to Re: Apocalypse » bulldog2, posted by fayeroe on May 26, 2008, at 9:38:34
> when Bush declared war on Iraq, my sisters took it to mean that it was right and just and God was endorsing it.
Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding war on Iraq to Psycho-Babble Politics. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/poli/20080312/msgs/832008.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Sigismund on May 30, 2008, at 0:55:18
In reply to Redirect: war on Iraq, posted by Dr. Bob on May 30, 2008, at 0:22:34
But what if the war in Iraq is a religious war?
(As opposed to a resource war.)
It could be both of course.
Posted by Sigismund on May 30, 2008, at 0:55:52
In reply to Re: Redirect: war on Iraq » Dr. Bob, posted by Sigismund on May 30, 2008, at 0:55:18
Or a faith based war?
Posted by fayeroe on May 30, 2008, at 7:38:55
In reply to Re: Redirect: war on Iraq » Dr. Bob, posted by Sigismund on May 30, 2008, at 0:55:18
> But what if the war in Iraq is a religious war?
>
> (As opposed to a resource war.)
>
> It could be both of course.i've been under the same impression since someone's higher power told us to go there and get their resources.
Posted by Sigismund on June 12, 2008, at 2:57:35
In reply to Re: Redirect: war on Iraq » Sigismund, posted by fayeroe on May 30, 2008, at 7:38:55
At any rate it seems to have given him the assurance of a sleepwalker.
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 8, 2009, at 10:15:11
In reply to Re: Eckart Tolle, posted by bulldog2 on May 25, 2008, at 10:17:37
Friends,
I am interested in discussing via email some contents of this thread. If you are an intersted, you could email me if you like.
Lou
lpilder_1188@fuse.net
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Faith | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.