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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 27. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by scratchpad on March 7, 2007, at 16:38:13
I am not aging gracefully. I have a self image problem that is rooted in loathing and hatred. A lifetime of it - and now my middle age approaches. I'm horrified. Never mind self-love; right now I would settle for self-tolerance.
It isn't that I look in the mirror and see a distorted image; I see my mother (far worse). Photographs aren't kind and although I have good carriage, I look slump shouldered and awkward. I criticized my mother plenty (to myself) while growing up for her appearance. Now it has come around to kick me in my ample behind. My family's women all turn loaf-shaped as they age. No evidence of a past waist can be seen.
I feel petty and vain. I don't want to look *younger*, as I've never been happy with the way I look. My inability to accept what I look like has stalled me completely. I am who I am, and look like I look like. Why can't I love that about myself?
Has anyone else come up against this wall, and how have you moved past it?
flubberly,
sp
Posted by Declan on March 8, 2007, at 1:06:20
In reply to This is the tough stuff for me, posted by scratchpad on March 7, 2007, at 16:38:13
>Never mind self-love; right now I would settle for self-tolerance.<
Look SP, it just sucks.
When I go for my drivers licence I have a choice of looking schizophrenic (attempting to smile) or depressed (not).
Naturally I choose depressed (why should I put myself out?).
It is just so awful and you/I know it won't get any better....though I think we will become inured to it, bit by bit, over time.
Will we have learned by the end that looks don't matter?
Not a chance.
Posted by scratchpad on March 8, 2007, at 10:31:46
In reply to Re: This is the tough stuff for me » scratchpad, posted by Declan on March 8, 2007, at 1:06:20
> >Never mind self-love; right now I would settle for self-tolerance.<
>
> Look SP, it just sucks.Wow, talk about tough love.
> When I go for my drivers licence I have a choice of looking schizophrenic (attempting to smile) or depressed (not).
> Naturally I choose depressed (why should I put myself out?).
> It is just so awful and you/I know it won't get any better....though I think we will become inured to it, bit by bit, over time.I was hoping for a better outlook than this for myself. Don't I deserve to be happy with how I look to the world?
> Will we have learned by the end that looks don't matter?
> Not a chance.Again, it's not the looks so much. I don't want my tummy rolls to disappear. I want to be OK with those rolls - to love them. I want to love myself. I've never been taught that I'm the least bit worthy of it. Where do I start?
Posted by karen_kay on March 8, 2007, at 12:52:30
In reply to This is the tough stuff for me, posted by scratchpad on March 7, 2007, at 16:38:13
alrightie sexiepie, you asked for it then. you want honesty, i can give it to you.
kk just had a baby (ok, i didn't just pop that duckie out, it has been nine months, but i ate like a pig and i put on almost 100 pounds. seriously, i went to the hospital and weighed in at (gasp) 228 lbs!). my belly (which tended to be potbellie piggieish anyhow) looks kinda even moreso like one. but, i got one hellofabottom to make up for that belly. and my boobs far outweigh that. and i still have them beautiful brown eyes.
so, that's how i tend to look at things. i've put on some weight (and thank goodness it's coming off :) but, my butt and boobs are making up for it. and i still have all those other things that i used to have before the weight to make up for it.
so, perhaps you could find the things you do like about yourself and forget about those ones you don't like as much? that's what i tend to do. (and trust me, one day that pot belly will come into style, it jsut has to! i'm always going to have it, it's never going to go away. i cna't do a decent sit up to save my life. so, i'm holding out the hope that one day the pot belly will become fashionable and i'm just ahead of my time :)
(((((sexie pie)))))))))
accept yourself, flaws and all. that's what makes you unique and beautiful! if we all looked like george clooney (ok, bad example, the world would be a lovely place if we all looked like him), so if we all had blonde hair, blue eyes, size zero, we'd all look like kid's ex wife and he'd be one very sad man. we wouldn't want that, now would we?
have a lovely day, lovelie!
Posted by karen_kay on March 8, 2007, at 15:51:13
In reply to Re: This is the tough stuff for me » scratchpad, posted by karen_kay on March 8, 2007, at 12:52:30
PHENOMENAL WOMAN
by Maya AngelouPretty women wonder where my secret lies
I'm not cute or built to suit a model's fashion size
But when I start to tell them
They think I'm telling lies.
I say
It's in the reach of my arms
The span of my hips
The stride of my steps
The curl of my lips.
I'm a woman
Phenomenally
Phenomenal woman
That's me.I walk into a room
Just as cool as you please
And to a man
The fellows stand or
Fall down on their knees
Then they swarm around me
A hive of honey bees.
I say
It's the fire in my eyes
And the flash of my teeth
The swing of my waist
And the joy in my feet.
I'm a woman
Phenomenally
Phenomenal woman
That's me.Men themselves have wondered
What they see in me
They try so much
But they can't touch
My inner mystery.
When I try to show them
They say they still can't see.
I say
It's in the arch of my back
The sun of my smile
The ride of my breasts
The grace of my style.
I'm a woman
Phenomenally
Phenomenal woman
That's me.Now you understand
Just why my head's not bowed
I don't shout or jump about
Or have to talk real loud
When you see me passing
It ought to make you proud.
I say
It's in the click of my heels
The bend of my hair
The palm of my hand
The need for my care.
'Cause I'm a woman
Phenomenally
Phenomenal woman
That's me.
Posted by Dinah on March 8, 2007, at 17:54:25
In reply to This is the tough stuff for me, posted by scratchpad on March 7, 2007, at 16:38:13
How do you feel about your mother?
I figure I'm never going to feel ok with myself unless I somehow magically become ok with my mother. If I had had longer with my grandma, who looked a heck of a lot like my mother only moreso, but was beautiful, maybe I'd have more positive feelings about myself.
As long as I feel the way I do about my mother, I can't possibly have positive feelings about the person in the mirror.
Posted by scratchpad on March 8, 2007, at 20:56:36
In reply to something i found inspiring..., posted by karen_kay on March 8, 2007, at 15:51:13
That's an amazing poem. I have only felt remotely like this while hypomanic.
It's like reading about someone from outer space. Man, my head is way low down right now.
I'll read it again later.Thanks for posting it,
scratchie
Posted by scratchpad on March 8, 2007, at 21:09:14
In reply to Re: This is the tough stuff for me » scratchpad, posted by Dinah on March 8, 2007, at 17:54:25
> How do you feel about your mother?
>Oooh, not so good. She taught me all I know and practice about poor self esteem and what you do with your life with it.
Currently I keep our contact minimal, and it's superficial (by nature, I believe).> I figure I'm never going to feel ok with myself unless I somehow magically become ok with my mother. If I had had longer with my grandma, who looked a heck of a lot like my mother only moreso, but was beautiful, maybe I'd have more positive feelings about myself.
>I never knew my grandmother. I've always thought poorly of my mom for being sedentary (hello, it's me too) and flubbery. In her family, any vanity displayed among females is looked upon as being shallow and stupid.
Today I was at my doctor's office and he weighed me. My blood pressure is still/again borderline high; his advice to me to correct it is to lose the excess weight. By the end of the appointment (we then moved on to sinus problems), I was crying.
> As long as I feel the way I do about my mother, I can't possibly have positive feelings about the person in the mirror.So I'm taking my hatred of my mom out on my own body, maybe? by hating it so much?
Posted by karen_kay on March 9, 2007, at 6:48:21
In reply to Re: This is the tough stuff for me » Dinah, posted by scratchpad on March 8, 2007, at 21:09:14
i have the apple shape, like my mother (in fact, i'm off to ship my mother my old jeans which i just very recently was able to get out of). the only difference is that my motehr at least had the boobs, which i always hoped to get one day.
i have my mother's skinny leggies. i've accepted that and in fact embraced it. i've learned to embrace the pot bellie. even after years of listening to my mother tease me about it growing up.
sweetie, it's not about what you have, it's about hwo you accept it and carry yourself. i'm still not too comfortable with mr kk rubbing my belly after having the duckie (yowsa, wowsa having a child sure can do things to the body i had never imagined!).
embrace your body doll! if it's anythign like your personality, then it's completely, absolutely perfect!
loves to you sexie pie. jsut keep telling yourself how completely gorgeous you are and it will sink in!
kk
Posted by Dinah on March 9, 2007, at 9:28:19
In reply to Re: This is the tough stuff for me » Dinah, posted by scratchpad on March 8, 2007, at 21:09:14
Well, I guess my theory is that if you see your mother when you look in the mirror, or parts of your mother, and if your feelings about your mother or your mother's body are negative, you will naturally feel negatively about your own body because you see it as being like your mother's.
Or that's how it works for me. I figure I can either figure out some way to not see my mother in the mirror, by focusing on the things that are different. Or if I can, I can try to see my grandma in the mirror instead. Or I can try to feel better about my mother. I also figure none of those things will ever happen.
What really amazes me is that in the ways I *can* change how I look to make myself look less like my mother, I don't really.
Posted by Declan on March 10, 2007, at 0:13:17
In reply to about mothers and their bodies, posted by karen_kay on March 9, 2007, at 6:48:21
I think some of this is a genetic type thing.
The attraction to children must be in part because they are so perfect.
And as children we would see our parents' nakedness with a kind of alienated horror (they look like that!).So we grow old and fall apart.
In life, body is turned into mind and then to spirit.So like KK said, SP...you're just really great. Or like I'd say, well..I better say it to myself....my body may suck but I'm kind too...and so are you.
And I know I look better than the evidence, from cameras and mirrors and stuff.Whenever someone points a camera at me I come out with the predictable story about how the camera is stealing my soul.
Posted by karen_kay on March 10, 2007, at 10:41:52
In reply to Re: This is the tough stuff for me » scratchpad, posted by Dinah on March 9, 2007, at 9:28:19
the tough stuff for me about my mom:
is acting like her! her mannerisms. yelling like her. saying 'you have to do this' to my sister, mr kk, anyone in the grocery, or anywhere else for that mother. 2 of my sisters and i were discussing thsi and why we all needed therapy. in fact, that was the reason why we were all going to therapy, becasue we were acting like our mother. we were more worried about acting like our mother than looking like her! :)
kinda funny, huh? we get concerned when we act like our mother, rather than when we look like her!
Posted by Dinah on March 10, 2007, at 12:20:21
In reply to Re: This is the tough stuff for me*, posted by karen_kay on March 10, 2007, at 10:41:52
I'm concerned about both. :)
In our house it's considered hitting below the belt to bring up any similarity of either one of us to my mother.
Yet, as I woefully recognize, there are behavioral similarities. My husband says in the important things I'm completely different. And he says if I ever do start acting like my mother, he will let me know, or maybe have me committed.
Posted by Dinah on March 10, 2007, at 12:21:42
In reply to Re: This is the tough stuff for me* » karen_kay, posted by Dinah on March 10, 2007, at 12:20:21
I don't mean that in a bad way. Everyone from lawyers to therapists admit that my mother is in some ways incompetent to handle her affairs. It's just that no one wants that battle on their hands.
Posted by scratchpad on March 11, 2007, at 11:14:45
In reply to Re: about mothers and their bodies, posted by Declan on March 10, 2007, at 0:13:17
Or rather, I was crying when the phone rang and my DH handed it to me, saying, "it's your sister." Nothing like standing there with a phone in your hand, sobbing.
She has the same issues I do - although my legs are shorter than hers and torso longer (do I sound like a carnival sideshow yet?) she has The Tummy and Rolls. She has dieted probably an entire person's worth of weight and gained it back over the last 25 years. She's about to do it again. Apart from my inability to yo-yo, which is probably a good thing; I've just been getting progressively and very slowly heavier for the last 10 years, she and I both hate our bodies.
Misery, we proved again, does love company. I was able to calm down during the course of our conversation. Our family's propensity for Couch Potato behaviour continues. I will only run for a bus, or if I am being chased by something dangerous. I have started daily walks again, though. And I have continued doing yoga, but it's once a week, not twice, and I go to a class (so hard for me) rather than have the instructor come to me. Cost saving. Now I can afford to buy bigger clothes...
Argh, sorry for being so negative, still. Depression after a hypomanic episode is unsavory. On the plus side, no more mood stabilizers for me. Back to low dose of xanax if needed.
sp
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on March 12, 2007, at 15:04:16
In reply to I talked with my sister about it, posted by scratchpad on March 11, 2007, at 11:14:45
I hate my body too, which is stupid as I'm 26 and it might start going downhill from now on! I worry about this- how on earth am I going to accept what I look like when I'm 64 if I can't even accept it now?
Its really strange. My mother doesn't have any body issues whatsoever - she'll happily proclaim she's looking awful (and she will be) and not care one bit.
Actually I have just thought of something that cheered me up at least. I used to belong to a gym and there were public changing rooms and everyone just got on with it and changed completely starkers in front of everyone and this boosted my self confidence. Seeing all kinds of female bodies made me realise that mine really wasn't so bad after all. One strange thing actually is that I'm quite happy to go nude, (I've been to nudist beaches and well I live in Finland and everyone here goes to the sauna in the nude - single sex of course!) but I still hate my body. I avoid it like the plague in mirrors. But seeing other, real life women in the nude, of all ages, shapes, colours really helped me.
Anyway, I think its down to self esteem. Pure and simple.
And perhaps you could buy yourself some nice new clothes that flatter you and get your hair down and buy some pretty make-up? I always feel alot better about myself once I've done myself up abit.
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by AuntieMel on March 12, 2007, at 17:59:48
In reply to I talked with my sister about it, posted by scratchpad on March 11, 2007, at 11:14:45
You looked pretty great to me when I met you. I was envious of your poise.
Did you get frumpy in a year and a half??
Posted by scratchpad on March 13, 2007, at 12:06:20
In reply to Re: what happened?? » scratchpad, posted by AuntieMel on March 12, 2007, at 17:59:48
> You looked pretty great to me when I met you. I was envious of your poise.
>You are too kind, AM.
> Did you get frumpy in a year and a half??
I think I have put on 5 pounds since I saw you.
It feels like a matter of taking good care of myself, and really not feeling that I'm worth the trouble. The blood pressure issue is what triggered this round. I've been borderline high in the past, and it's resolved itself. I've also been on medication for it (which is what I had hoped my doctor would suggest this time). Part of the problem is that I'm fixating on this horribly; when I go to bed I kind of clutch my rolls and worry them. I tried putting my hands on top of the covers but that creates its own anxiety, especially for someone who struggles with sleep.
So, I'm walking. I'm yoga-ing. I'm eating healthy and fresh. And I'm miserable. My T thinks this is a very big problem for me. That it's HATE. This is true.
I can recall the exact summer when my body "blossomed" and I experienced abuse by a stranger in a playground. I can remember my mom making me feel that it was my fault. I remember trying to talk to her about periods and stuff, and she said, "don't they show a movie at school about that?" I hate myself because of the shame that I've been taught. I can't look at a magazine, watch a tv show, or read a newspaper without seeing all the ways a better looking body can be sold to us. My hairstylist even talked me out of letting my gray hair grow out.
I'm just a mess right now.
Posted by AuntieMel on March 13, 2007, at 16:02:54
In reply to Re: what happened?? » AuntieMel, posted by scratchpad on March 13, 2007, at 12:06:20
I got "farmed out" a lot during summers.
I remember the summer I "changed." I was staying with friends of the family and had to screw up the courage to tell the mom. Who, of course told my mom later, who naturally (why is this naturally, anyway???) had to tell everyone in the family.
That was a summer or two after staying with cousins and being surrounded by a gaggle of girls (I was out skating) who told me how ugly I was.
I've been playing with my rolls lately, too. Sometimes I even daydream about doing my own tummy tuck.
Ouch! Its awful how desparate society makes us feel.
When all that really matters is being a "good" (meaning kind, caring) person. You've got that one down in spades.
Posted by scratchpad on March 13, 2007, at 20:50:10
In reply to Re: those awful summers » scratchpad, posted by AuntieMel on March 13, 2007, at 16:02:54
I feel as bad as I paint my mom out to be.
Posted by Phillipa on March 15, 2007, at 11:43:48
In reply to I talked with my sister about it, posted by scratchpad on March 11, 2007, at 11:14:45
SP I hate to say this but as the hormones get lower the fid abd flag gets worse I know I look at me in the mirror not a pretty site. Maybe liposuction if I had the money and now its going to changing meds that arent insured and docs. Love Phillipa
Posted by scratchpad on March 15, 2007, at 14:05:36
In reply to Re: I talked with my sister about it » scratchpad, posted by Phillipa on March 15, 2007, at 11:43:48
> fid abd flag
Wow, I don't think I have any of that yet- it sounds uncomfortable.
Posted by Phillipa on March 15, 2007, at 19:52:13
In reply to Re: I talked with my sister about it » scratchpad, posted by Phillipa on March 15, 2007, at 11:43:48
Guess I posted late as my message makes no sense I meant abdominal flab. Never had it before but do now. Iccck and no amt of situps can reduce it. Oh I would love a tummy tuck and lipsuction. May flat belly back. Love Phillipa
Posted by Dinah on March 16, 2007, at 14:01:18
In reply to Re: I talked with my sister about it » Phillipa, posted by Phillipa on March 15, 2007, at 19:52:13
I want a breast lift. It's not that I care about my looks so much as that bras just aren't designed to fit such *low* breasts. But I discovered there's rather more to breast lifts than you might think.
Fortunately my body's more my father's mother's than my mother's. Only fatter. So I don't hate that as much. It's my face that's my mother's. Not much I can do about that.
Posted by Dinah on March 16, 2007, at 14:05:49
In reply to Re: I talked with my sister about it » Phillipa, posted by scratchpad on March 15, 2007, at 14:05:36
Have you tried meditation coupled with radical acceptance?
Or finding different ways to describe yourself to yourself?
In general I scoff at such things, but I can't begin to tell you how Tabitha's description of me in place of certain of my own descriptors has helped me accept aspects of my appearance. I'll try to find that post (which I'm sure is bookmarked on one of my computers) to make sure I'm quoting correctly.
Maybe we can help you come up with something.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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