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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 9 to 33 of 33. Go back in thread:
Posted by sigismund on January 3, 2014, at 0:29:54
In reply to Re: Perhaps my last attempt at treatment » sigismund, posted by Tomatheus on January 2, 2014, at 18:09:20
Maca, ginseng. What else?
Posted by Tomatheus on January 3, 2014, at 1:07:39
In reply to Re: Perhaps my last attempt at treatment » Tomatheus, posted by sigismund on January 3, 2014, at 0:29:54
> Maca, ginseng. What else?
What else have I tried? Quite a bit. Longjack looks interesting. And it will be interesting to see how the muira puama will affect me, considering that I don't think that I've ever tried anything that has what I might call an "anti-GABA effect."
For now, I'm taking some l-lysine. I seemed to notice some short-lived improvement in my energy and concentration the last time I took it, and I think I'm experiencing something similar now.
Tomatheus
Posted by Lamdage22 on January 3, 2014, at 14:15:21
In reply to Perhaps my last attempt at treatment, posted by Tomatheus on January 1, 2014, at 18:09:48
I'm functioning at a low level right now, and it scares me to think what even a few more days of being like this might be like ... let alone the rest of my life.
>
> TomatheusI feel the same way. It makes me want to do serious drugs..
Posted by Tomatheus on January 3, 2014, at 18:44:13
In reply to Re: Perhaps my last attempt at treatment, posted by Lamdage22 on January 3, 2014, at 14:15:21
> I'm functioning at a low level right now, and it scares me to think what even a few more days of being like this might be like ... let alone the rest of my life.
> >
> > Tomatheus
>
> I feel the same way. It makes me want to do serious drugs..I can understand the desire to use "serious drugs," and I sometimes wonder which illicit drugs I might have used at this point if they were more accessible to me. I think it's probably for the best that I never used them (especially those illicit drugs that are are the most "serious"), given that whatever "benefits" they provide tend to be short lived and that they seem to have a strong potential for long-term harm. Then again, I can't say that prescription psychiatric drugs are necessarily much better for a lot of people who take them.
Having said what I've said about the "serious drugs" that you wish to use, I can't say that I've found a better long-term solution for my affective psychosis. I'm sort of liking my supplements at the moment, but who knows how much they'll still be helping in another 2-3 months.
Tomatheus
Posted by Lamdage22 on January 4, 2014, at 4:54:58
In reply to Re: Perhaps my last attempt at treatment » Lamdage22, posted by Tomatheus on January 3, 2014, at 18:44:13
> > I'm functioning at a low level right now, and it scares me to think what even a few more days of being like this might be like ... let alone the rest of my life.
> > >
> > > Tomatheus
> >
> > I feel the same way. It makes me want to do serious drugs..
>
> I can understand the desire to use "serious drugs," and I sometimes wonder which illicit drugs I might have used at this point if they were more accessible to me. I think it's probably for the best that I never used them (especially those illicit drugs that are are the most "serious"), given that whatever "benefits" they provide tend to be short lived and that they seem to have a strong potential for long-term harm. Then again, I can't say that prescription psychiatric drugs are necessarily much better for a lot of people who take them.
>
> Having said what I've said about the "serious drugs" that you wish to use, I can't say that I've found a better long-term solution for my affective psychosis. I'm sort of liking my supplements at the moment, but who knows how much they'll still be helping in another 2-3 months.
>
> TomatheusDo you still have psychosis or are you battling primarily the affective part/ negative symptoms?
Posted by Tomatheus on January 4, 2014, at 18:22:05
In reply to Re: Perhaps my last attempt at treatment, posted by Lamdage22 on January 4, 2014, at 4:54:58
> Do you still have psychosis or are you battling primarily the affective part/ negative symptoms?
I still get some mild hallucinatory phenomena (mostly sound hallucinations, what I call "pseudohallucinations," and some visual stuff), but as far as I can tell, I'm not believing in all of the delusions that I believed in when my psychosis was at its peak, nor do I experience much in the way of ideas of reference like I was before I was taking Abilify.
So, right now, with the Abilify that I'm taking, the main problems that I'm struggling with are difficulty concentrating and other cognitive problems, fatigue (although this isn't nearly as bad as it used to be before my psychosis), and hypersomnia.
I've basically spent much of the past five years trying to augment my Abilify, mostly with supplements, in hopes that I might see some long-term relief from my symptoms. That long-term relief hasn't come, and I'm starting to think that it never will come for as long as I continue to take Abilify. It might not even come if I discontinue Abilify, but continuing to add supplements to Abilify in hopes of long-term relief from any of my symptoms isn't producing the results that I would like to see. I also think that the Abilify that I'm taking might be part of the reason why my concentration is as bad as it is and that if Abilify is part of the problem that the only solution to that part of the problem is to remove the Abilify.
Of course, discontinuing my Abilify will likely worsen my psychosis. Given the frustration and lack of productivity that have characterized the last five years of my life, I think that enduring worse psychotic symptoms in hopes that maybe at least my concentration will improve might not be such a bad thing.
Tomatheus
Posted by Tomatheus on January 4, 2014, at 22:27:51
In reply to Re: Perhaps my last attempt at treatment » Lamdage22, posted by Tomatheus on January 4, 2014, at 18:22:05
> > Do you still have psychosis or are you battling primarily the affective part/ negative symptoms?
>
> I still get some mild hallucinatory phenomena (mostly sound hallucinations, what I call "pseudohallucinations," and some visual stuff), but as far as I can tell, I'm not believing in all of the delusions that I believed in when my psychosis was at its peak, nor do I experience much in the way of ideas of reference like I was before I was taking Abilify.
>
> So, right now, with the Abilify that I'm taking, the main problems that I'm struggling with are difficulty concentrating and other cognitive problems, fatigue (although this isn't nearly as bad as it used to be before my psychosis), and hypersomnia.
>
> I've basically spent much of the past five years trying to augment my Abilify, mostly with supplements, in hopes that I might see some long-term relief from my symptoms. That long-term relief hasn't come, and I'm starting to think that it never will come for as long as I continue to take Abilify. It might not even come if I discontinue Abilify, but continuing to add supplements to Abilify in hopes of long-term relief from any of my symptoms isn't producing the results that I would like to see. I also think that the Abilify that I'm taking might be part of the reason why my concentration is as bad as it is and that if Abilify is part of the problem that the only solution to that part of the problem is to remove the Abilify.
>
> Of course, discontinuing my Abilify will likely worsen my psychosis. Given the frustration and lack of productivity that have characterized the last five years of my life, I think that enduring worse psychotic symptoms in hopes that maybe at least my concentration will improve might not be such a bad thing.
>
> TomatheusNever mind what I wrote above about Abilify. I think that I'm going to keep taking it and see if I can get in to see a general practitioner to see if my chronic fatigue and hypersomnia might be related to some sort of infection (which might be why my white blood cells are elevated).
I think that that will be my next attempt at treatment.
Tomatheus
Posted by Lamdage22 on January 5, 2014, at 4:49:05
In reply to Re: Perhaps my last attempt at treatment, posted by Tomatheus on January 4, 2014, at 22:27:51
Have you tried Sam-E or Gastrodin yet? I ordered me some Sam-E and i also take Fishoil which is an investment in the future i believe.
Posted by Tomatheus on January 5, 2014, at 9:28:50
In reply to Re: Perhaps my last attempt at treatment, posted by Lamdage22 on January 5, 2014, at 4:49:05
Hi Lamdage22,
Thanks for your post. I have taken SAM-e. I was actually taking it with Parnate (both at low doses) and experiencing what seemed to be a partial response to the combination as far as my fatigue and hypersomnia were concerned when I went into my psychosis. I think it's hard to say whether my combination of SAM-e and Parnate might have played a role in bringing out my psychosis, but it's not a combination that I'd recommend.
I had never heard of gastrodin until you mentioned it, but I looked at some information on the supplement, and it looks interesting. I might very well try it.
At the moment, I'm feeling somewhat better than how I feel at baseline when I'm just taking Abilify and niacin (I'm also taking l-lysine right now). I don't know if I can attribute what I'm noticing to the l-lysine or not, but I plan on continuing on with the amino acid supplement to see how I respond to it in the longer run. I'm having second thoughts about the muira puama.
How have you been doing?
Tomatheus
Posted by Lamdage22 on January 5, 2014, at 10:36:26
In reply to Re: Perhaps my last attempt at treatment » Lamdage22, posted by Tomatheus on January 5, 2014, at 9:28:50
Tomatheus,
today im better with 300mg Moclobemide. Might be working.
I never heard of Gastrodin either until couple days ago. I ordered it.Funny, my psychosis came AFTER dopaminergic treatment, not during
Posted by Lamdage22 on January 5, 2014, at 10:38:46
In reply to Re: Perhaps my last attempt at treatment, posted by Lamdage22 on January 5, 2014, at 10:36:26
Have you had Moclobemide yet?
Its an Maoi minus most of the dopaminergic effect of Nardil or Parnate.
Posted by Tomatheus on January 5, 2014, at 10:57:09
In reply to Re: Perhaps my last attempt at treatment, posted by Lamdage22 on January 5, 2014, at 10:38:46
Yeah, I took moclobemide. I live in the U.S., but I ordered it from an online pharmacy that I think ships from Europe. I recall noticing a bit of a short-lived boost from the medication. I hope that for you, the benefits of moclobemide will last longer than they did for me.
Tomatheus
Posted by Lamdage22 on January 5, 2014, at 12:30:21
In reply to Re: Perhaps my last attempt at treatment » Lamdage22, posted by Tomatheus on January 5, 2014, at 10:57:09
Me too.. im only at 300mgs so maybe it will stick.
Posted by Lamdage22 on January 5, 2014, at 13:25:27
In reply to Re: Perhaps my last attempt at treatment, posted by Lamdage22 on January 5, 2014, at 12:30:21
Good thing, i can probably afford to go outpatient. I could have someone live in my place and take care of me.
At least i can avoid hospital in the future. I cant tell you how much i hate hospital.
Posted by Tomatheus on January 5, 2014, at 14:10:02
In reply to Re: Perhaps my last attempt at treatment, posted by Lamdage22 on January 5, 2014, at 13:25:27
> Good thing, i can probably afford to go outpatient. I could have someone live in my place and take care of me.
>
> At least i can avoid hospital in the future. I cant tell you how much i hate hospital.Yeah, I've had some bad experiences in the hospital, so I don't blame you for hating hospitals. I think that the psychiatrists in the hospitals have a tendency to prescribe higher doses of antipsychotics (and probably mood stabilizers, too) than psychiatrists who work with patients on an outpatient basis. The psychiatrists in the hospitals are basically more focused on "stabilizing" patients so they're not regarded as being dangerous, whereas outpatient doctors seem to work with patients more to make sure that medications are both effective and tolerable.
Do you think that you'll see a therapist in addition to a psychiatrist as an outpatient? I've seen a few therapists, and although I'm not seeing one now, I'm considering getting back into therapy.
Tomatheus
Posted by sigismund on January 5, 2014, at 17:12:40
In reply to Re: Perhaps my last attempt at treatment » Lamdage22, posted by Tomatheus on January 5, 2014, at 10:57:09
I found moclobemide pretty rough....I had to lie down. A lot of NE?
Posted by Tomatheus on January 5, 2014, at 20:11:21
In reply to Re: Perhaps my last attempt at treatment, posted by sigismund on January 5, 2014, at 17:12:40
Sigismund,
Did you end up lying down due to fatigue, or for a different reason?
Tomatheus
Posted by sigismund on January 5, 2014, at 22:39:12
In reply to Re: Perhaps my last attempt at treatment » sigismund, posted by Tomatheus on January 5, 2014, at 20:11:21
A horrible feeling in my gut. Not unlike anxiety perhaps, though different from normal anxiety. A bit like wanting to curl up and die. But since I only took 150mg (I think) it was not so bad.
Posted by Tomatheus on January 5, 2014, at 23:27:04
In reply to Re: Perhaps my last attempt at treatment » Tomatheus, posted by sigismund on January 5, 2014, at 22:39:12
Sigismund,
It wouldn't surprise me if the feeling that you described was due to moclobemide's effects on norepinephrine, although it might also be possible (though not necessarily probable) that what you felt might be due to some unknown pharmacological property of moclobemide's that's unrelated to the medication's effect on monoamine oxidase A (and the monoamines themselves).
Moclobemide did seem to have a different feel to it than other MAOIs that I've tried. Then again, all of the MAOIs that I took differed from one another in some way. But I do wonder how much more there may be to moclobemide's mechanism of action than reversible MAO-A inhibition.
Tomatheus
Posted by Lamdage22 on January 6, 2014, at 3:12:49
In reply to Re: Perhaps my last attempt at treatment » sigismund, posted by Tomatheus on January 5, 2014, at 23:27:04
> Sigismund,
>
> It wouldn't surprise me if the feeling that you described was due to moclobemide's effects on norepinephrine, although it might also be possible (though not necessarily probable) that what you felt might be due to some unknown pharmacological property of moclobemide's that's unrelated to the medication's effect on monoamine oxidase A (and the monoamines themselves).
>
> Moclobemide did seem to have a different feel to it than other MAOIs that I've tried. Then again, all of the MAOIs that I took differed from one another in some way. But I do wonder how much more there may be to moclobemide's mechanism of action than reversible MAO-A inhibition.
>
> TomatheusIts a shame they dont develop more MAOIs.. they are the Mercedes of medications.
Posted by stargazer2 on March 18, 2014, at 22:43:16
In reply to Re: Perhaps my last attempt at treatment, posted by Lamdage22 on January 6, 2014, at 3:12:49
Have you tried TMS or ECT? I had unsuccessful ECT in 2011 and still suffer with memory loss from it or is it from my depression, hard to tell...
But I just started TMS (Transmagnetic Stimulation) last week. If you want I'll let you know how it goes. 30 daily treatments is the standard course of TMS and so I have a way to go still...but I'm optimistic. I just read a book called "3,000 pulses" relaying one woman's story of her recovery from treatment resistent depression.
Stargazer
Posted by Tomatheus on March 18, 2014, at 23:10:07
In reply to Re: Perhaps my last attempt at treatment, posted by stargazer2 on March 18, 2014, at 22:43:16
Stargazer,
Thank you for replying. No, I haven't tried ECT or TMS. I know that I've described my problems with energy and concentration as depressive symptoms a lot in the past, but the more informed about schizophrenia I've become, the more I've been seeing my symptoms as being "negative" symptoms of schizophrenia instead of the symptoms of clinical depression. The doctors who actually spent the most time conversing with me and observing me out of all the doctors that I've seen seemed to reach the same conclusion, but it is only recently that I've started to agree with them. So, if it is indeed the case that my symptoms are better described as "negative" schizophrenic symptoms than depressive symptoms, I don't know how likely it is that ECT or TMS would be effective for me. On the other hand, given the fact that I've had some limited success with certain antidepressants, there might be a chance that one of the procedures that you mentioned (ECT or TMS, and I'd be inclined to try the latter over the former) might bring me some relief from my symptoms. Right now, I'm responding to the vitamin D3 that I'm taking, and it certainly is my hope that I'll continue to respond to the vitamin-hormone (D3) in the long run ... *but* I might consider TMS if this trial doesn't work out for me in the long run.
At any rate, I do want to wish you luck with your TMS treatments. I'd be interested in reading about how you do with the treatment, and I'll keep an eye out for your posts about it on both this board and the medication board. It certainly would be encouraging if TMS were to help you, even some, with your depression.
Thanks again for posting, and again, I wish you well with the TMS.
Tomatheus
Posted by stargazer2 on March 19, 2014, at 23:49:17
In reply to Re: Perhaps my last attempt at treatment » stargazer2, posted by Tomatheus on March 18, 2014, at 23:10:07
Thank you for your support.
I'm also on Latuda, a fairly new medication that targets the negative sx of schizophrenia and bipolar depression, neither one of which I have officially. Have you heard of it? You may want to ask your doc about it.
Good luck to you in your fight as well. I have come to the realization that depression is not worth living when you are at the worst level and that is where I am lately. The suicidal thinking and the nothingness of life without a purpose make living intolerable.
Hang in there and hopefully something will start to work for you.
Stargazer
Posted by Tomatheus on March 20, 2014, at 14:47:51
In reply to Re: Perhaps my last attempt at treatment, posted by stargazer2 on March 19, 2014, at 23:49:17
Stargazer,
Thank you for your reply and for mentioning Latuda. I have heard of the medication, and I'm interested in it, as I'm aware that it might help to combat the "negative" symptoms of schizophrenia. As I said in my last message, I am responding to the vitamin D3 that I'm taking right now (at least to an extent), so I'm not looking for new treatments *right now*. However, if my vitamin D3 trial doesn't work out in the long run, Latuda is among the treatments that I might possibly consider trying.
I'm sorry to hear that your depression has been really bad lately, although I think it's encouraging that you're giving TMS a try. I really hope that you'll get some relief from this treatment. Although I wouldn't say any more that I struggle with an ongoing clinical depression (I think that my illness is better described as schizophrenia with strong negative and cognitive symptoms), I can say that I can identify with feeling like life isn't worth living due to my symptoms causing a lot of impairment. I know that you've had a lot of unsuccessful attempts with treatment yourself, but I would definitely encourage you to keep looking for something that might help you. Of course, I'm hoping that you won't have to do that, because I hope that TMS will at least be of some benefit to you, but if that doesn't work out, I would keep looking for more treatment options, as unlikely as it may seem that they may end up working.
Since we're on the alternative board, you might want to look into the herb Rhodiola rosea as something to try if you're out of options, unless you've already tried it. I know that you've written in the past that some of your best responses to treatment have been to MAOIs, so I thought I'd put Rhodiola rosea out there as an option because it's been shown to inhibit both types of monoamine oxidase (types A and B).
At any rate, I will say again that I hope that looking for more treatments isn't something that you'll have to do, because I hope that TMS will give you the results that you're looking for as far as the treatment of your depression is concerned. So again, good luck with it!
Tomatheus
Posted by stargazer2 on March 23, 2014, at 17:31:36
In reply to Latuda and other treatments » stargazer2, posted by Tomatheus on March 20, 2014, at 14:47:51
It's hard to stay optimistic when you have been on the merry go round for 30 years but thank you for your words of support.
This is the end of the thread.
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