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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Phillipa on July 2, 2012, at 16:45:27
A person in real life is giving up his meds for high doses of nicinimide. Giving up vyvanase, desipramine, and requip for niacinimide. Is there any way a water soluable med can replace these and more. Oh also is gong to get B12 injections? Any responses appreciated. As don't want to see him lose what he has gained over the years. Phillipa
Posted by Islandangel on October 16, 2012, at 1:47:39
In reply to Niacinimide?, posted by Phillipa on July 2, 2012, at 16:45:27
Hi Philipa,
After a bad experience with Effexor, I decided to give up RX anti-depressants. I have been on anti-depressants for about 15 years. I am now trying inositol. It is a form of vitamin B aka B8. It comes in a powder and you start out low and work your way up to a dose that works for you. Some do as low as 500mg 3 times a say all the way up to 3,000mg. It tastes a little like sugar, it's water soluble and very easy to take. I am on my second week of inositol and so far so good! I've been on B12 shots for years. In fact, I give myself B12 shots monthly because I'm low. B12 may help boost energy a little but may not do too much for depression. If your friend is low on B12... the shots will have a profound effect.
Posted by Alan2102 on November 10, 2012, at 13:54:13
In reply to Niacinimide?, posted by Phillipa on July 2, 2012, at 16:45:27
Late reply, here.
See linked materials, below. There's nothing definitive, no big blinded trials on niacinamide in mood disorders. But there's a ton of circumstantial, anecdotal and clinical observational (professional anecdotes) evidence, as well as some fairly good theoretical rationale. Many people have experienced or observed mood/depression benefits from high-dose niacin. Kaufman used niacinamide in high doses in many thousands of patients over several decades, and noticed that it often had a mood-brightening effect. The active coenzyme form of niacinamide -- NADH -- has been used successfully to treat depression. Since niacinamide is only a mediocre precursor of neuronal NAD, it might be expected to be a good deal less effective than the active NADH; but who knows? No one has used it systematically, with the exception of Kaufman (see below). Nicotinamide riboside is more efficient as neuronal NAD precursor than plain niacinamide. But if niacinamide is given in Kaufman-esque doses (1,500 to 4,000 mgs per day, IN DIVIDED DOSES as per Kaufman's insistence), then who knows? Maybe it could be quite effective. I emphasize the divided doses because Kaufman emphasized it, and he probably had more clinical experience with the vitamin than anyone in the world. He said that it should be taken at 3-hour intervals, all day every day.
The mechanism of niacinamide's effects on mood might have to do with tryptophan metabolism. High-dose niacinamide (and pyridoxine, as well) inhibits the liver enzyme, tryptophan oxygenase, which degrades tryptophan before it can get to the brain. (See last link, below.) So, taking high doses of these vitamins is a little like taking extra tryptophan, with all that that might imply for serotonin levels and mood.
But really, your friend ought not be mono-maniacal about it. The niacinamide is a good idea and might be effective, but it should always be combined with magnesium, omega-6s, ascorbic acid, etc., etc. All the key brain nutrients. It would be foolish to expect ONE compound to be The Miracle Cure. That goes for drugs as well as nutrients.
Cheerio!
Alan
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http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/324/3/883
http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/early/2007/12/28/jpet.107.120758.full.pdf
NAD+ and Vitamin B3: From metabolism to therapies
Anthony A Sauve----------------------
http://orthomolecular.org/library/jom/2006/pdf/2006-v21n03-p140.pdf
Niacinamide As a Therapeutic Agent: A Memoir
William Kaufman, Ph.D., M.D1
see section starting on page 144: "Psychological Characteristics"----------------------
http://www.nadh.com/site7/RSdprs10.htm
Nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NADH) - a new therapeutic
approach for treating Depression
Experience with 205 patients.
New Trends in Clinical Neuropharmacology 1992
[...snip...]
SUMMARY:
The coenzyme nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NADH) has been used in an open label trial as medication in 205 patients suffering from depression with various clinical symptoms. NADH was given orally, intramuscularly or intravenously. The duration of therapy ranged from 5 to 310 days. 93 % of the patients exhibited a beneficial clinical effect. An improvement up to 44 with a mean value of 11.5 was observed.----------------------
http://www.doctoryourself.com/hoffer_niacin.html
Vitamin B-3: Niacin and Its Amide
by Abram Hoffer, MD, PhD
[...snip...]
Bill [Wilson, founder of Alcoholics Anonymous] was very curious about it and began to take niacin, 3 g daily. Within a few weeks fatigue and depression which had plagued him for years were gone. He gave it to 30 of his close friends in AA and persuaded them to try it. Within 6 months he was convinced that it would be very helpful to alcoholics. Of the thirty, 10 were free of anxiety, tension and depression in one month. Another 10 were well in two months. He decided that the chemical or medical terms for this vitamin were not appropriate. He wanted to persuade members of AA, especially the doctors in AA, that this would be a useful addition to treatment and he needed a term that could be more readily popularized. He asked me the names that had been used. I told him it was originally known as vitamin B-3. This was the term Bill wanted. In his first report to physicians in AA he called it "The Vitamin B-3 Therapy." Thousands of copies of this extraordinary pamphlet were distributed. Eventually the name came back and today even the most conservative medical journals are using the term vitamin B-3.--------------------
[regarding niacinamide v/v tryptophan metabolism]
We use L-dopa (dopamine precursor) to balance dopamine deficiency in treating Parkinson's Disease, so why can't we use 5-HTP to increase serotonin content for treating depression?
http://www.quora.com/We-use-L-dopa-dopamine-precursor-to-balance-dopamine-deficiency-in-treating-Parkinsons-Disease-so-why-cant-we-use-5-HTP-to-increase-serotonin-content-for-treating-depression
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