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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lao Tzu on January 8, 2012, at 16:25:22
I haven't posted in a while. I have seen great improvement in my schizophrenia and depression. First, I keep my B6 dosage to a maximum of 50mg per day. I cut out zinc; seems the B6/zinc regimen was making me worse. Lately, I have added three substances that supposedly help schizophrenia: Niacin, gingko biloba, and pregnenolone. I have also added a multivitamin, which for years I neglected to take. These four additions to my regimen in addition to my medication have helped me feel more motivated, less depressed, less anxious, and I sleep better. Here are the dosages below:
B6--50mg per day
Niacin---250mg at bedtime
Centrum multivitamin at bedtime
gingko biloba--60mg in the morning
pregnenolone--50mg in the afternoon
B12---375micrograms
B1---200mg per day
Fish oil---1.5 grams per day
Borage oil---1.3 grams per day
Vitamin C--500mg in the morningIn addition to the supplements, I take Risperdal, Lamictal, and Zoloft.
I have found that the dosage of Niacin is variable from person to person. Hoffer used large doses, but I have found that a low dosage is all I need due to the fact that I already take an antipsychotic, Without the Risperdal, I might need more Niacin. My above regimen is a revisal from past years when I didn't know what the heck I was doing with supplements. After extensive research and testing, I have discovered interesting and life-affirming results with these supplements. Why, just today, I actually felt motivated to look for employment. I haven't had that feeling in years because I never felt quite right. I think what really helped was a combination of things in the right dosages. This has taken years to develop kind of like a pharmaceutical company developing a new drug. It takes years. And it takes years to recover from schizophrenia, but I believe it is possible to recover, perhaps not fully, but close to normal functioning, enough to perhaps find employment or get your own apartment or find a girl or boyfriend. I think what did it for me, was first adding the gingko, then the pregnenolone (I had to get used to the preg in the beginning. It caused some irritability which went away over time); then recently I added the Niacin, which made a difference for me, but I think the combination of medication and the supplements is what really helps. Let me say, I don't suggest experimenting on yourself. I did because I'm stubborn and felt the doctor wasn't doing all he could for me. I always felt the medication wasn't good enough for recovery. Maybe I was wrong, maybe I'm right. I don't know for sure, but I do feel the supplements have made a huge difference in my life as far as staving off depression and anxiety. For hallucinations and delusions, an antipsychotic medication is needed. Vitamins won't help much with psychosis. You definitely need a good doctor who will look after you adequately and makes sure you stick to your meds. I had that, but like I said, I'm as stubborn as they come, and I expected more because I don't believe patients should settle for mediocre treatment. Let me say, however, that medication is absolutely essential for your well-being if you have schizophrenia. Don't think you can do it on your own without help. I've always kept that in mind. Strong medicine is usually needed. Supplements are supportive, and I was never afraid to try different things, only if I did the research and discovered they could interact with my medication. My mom always wondered why I tried so many supplements when I was taking medication for my illness. I always said the medication was great, but that it didn't address a lot of other complaints. And that's why I turned to supplements because my doctor had nothing to say about them. Inside, I felt like I was doing the right thing, something that a lot of doctors wouldn't tell their patients. Why not? I still don't know why. Anyhow, hope this information is helpful for you schizophrenia people, and have a great day!!!
Lao
Posted by SLS on January 10, 2012, at 12:51:54
In reply to Schizophrenia, posted by Lao Tzu on January 8, 2012, at 16:25:22
This is great news.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge on Psycho-Babble. It is very valuable.
- Scott
Posted by Lao Tzu on January 11, 2012, at 9:24:19
In reply to Re: Schizophrenia » Lao Tzu, posted by SLS on January 10, 2012, at 12:51:54
Sorry, but the Niacin trial failed for me. The first few days I felt fine, but on the 6 or 7th day, I started feeling strange. So I stopped the Niacin supplementation and I feel back to normal. I will say, however, that the gingko, pregnenolone, and the multivitamin are very helpful. I had forgotten to mention that I also take 200mg of magnesium citrate at bedtime with the multivitamin. For some reason, I feel better taking these at bedtime rather than during the day. Will post any changes in my regime during the next few weeks, if there are any. For now, however, I think I'm using all the supplements that I'm ever going to need, that is, supplements which complement my medication. By the way, thank you for your posts.
Lao
Posted by Christ_empowered on January 11, 2012, at 20:15:05
In reply to Re: Schizophrenia, posted by Lao Tzu on January 11, 2012, at 9:24:19
I'm officially "Bipolar I" (possibly with psychotic features--I don't know), but I think my problems overlap with schizophrenia.
I'm surprised niacin didn't help you. I take at least 3 grams niacinamide daily. Maybe niacinamide would be better for you? Do you have any EPS or dysphoria from the Risperdal? Right now, I'm just taking Abilify, 30mgs/day. High dose, I know, but it works quite well for me.
I take: 3 grams niacinamide, 10 grams vitamin c, 1 time release b-100, 1600 IU vitamin E+200 micrograms selenium, 2 grams taurine, 30mgs zinc, 1 gram green tea extract, and 4mgs astaxanthin. My only other meds are generic Propecia (thank God for online Indian pharmacies, otherwise I wouldn't have hair), and generic retin-a, .025%.
Back to you...have you tried any other antipsychotics? How much Risperdal do you take? I couldn't tolerate Risperdal @ 4 when they put me on in it the hospital. Of course, they also made me take 1500 depakote, so that could've been the problem. It made me hyperkinetic and antsy. How much zoloft do you take?
I think its interesting how people with fairly similar symptoms can end up with different diagnoses and treatments. Its also interesting how supplements seem to be a lot like meds--what works for one person causes problems (or just doesn't work) for another.
Posted by Lao Tzu on January 13, 2012, at 15:22:49
In reply to Re: Schizophrenia, posted by Christ_empowered on January 11, 2012, at 20:15:05
Hi there!! Thanks for your post. I really do admire your supplement regimen. A lot of good things you take and I'm glad it works for you. For some odd reason, I can't tolerate Niacin or niacinamide very well. If I use them occasionally, that works fine, but not for daily maintenance use. Don't have a clue why!! Same goes for the taurine. If I use it occasionally, I feel really good, but my body doesn't seem able to metabolize it well if I use it everyday. Go figure!! Risperdal has really helped me with very little side effects, except I gained 20-30 pounds over the last six years. That could be Zoloft too! I take 200mg of Zoloft per day. Initially, I was put on Risperdal Consta injections every two weeks at the doctor's office. About a year ago, the insurance's patient assistance was rescinded, and they would not cover the full cost anymore. Those injections are over $1,000. So my doc put me on the generic pills, and I have been doing well ever since. I'm taking 3mg twice a day, and so far I feel fine. I seem to tolerate the Risperdal very well. No EPS that I know of. I think that is less of a chance with Risperdal, but I suppose it could happen to some people.
A couple of supplements I added in the last six months are gingko biloba and pregnenolone. The gingko is supposed to improve antipsychotic effects. The pregnenolone, which I love, is supposed to help with negative symptoms. One thing about pregenenolone is that you have to get used to it over time. Initially, it was a little irritating, but over the months the irritability ceased and now I feel like I have more energy, especially when I take it with B12. My problem, besides hallucinations and delusions, has always been a lack of energy. For as far back as I can remember. Low energy. Apathetic. Finally, my regimen helps restore some of that vital energy I need. I am pleased with what I have done with myself lately. It took years to discover these things. I mean, I've been out of work for seven years, so I had a lot of idle time to delve into the use of supplements. Still, I really should find a job one of these days. Anyway, nice to hear from you, Christ. I always enjoy reading your posts. You sound like someone in the same vein as myself. Just looking for answers. Looking for a better life. See ya!Lao
Posted by Lao Tzu on January 21, 2012, at 17:10:59
In reply to Re: Schizophrenia, posted by Lao Tzu on January 13, 2012, at 15:22:49
I think perhaps why the Niacin wasn't working in my regimen is that I was using 250mg everyday. At a lower dosage, say 50mg per day along with other B vitamins, my depression might get better. For sure, the Niacin helps depression. I've seen this in myself time and time again. I just thought that maybe 250mg per day is too much for my body to handle. A lower dose may be warranted in my case. Niacin is purported to help quite a bit with depression, anxiety, and schizophrenia, but I think one has to adjust the dosage according to what you can tolerate. Some tolerate very high dosages, some only need a small dosage. At any rate, don't give up on Niacin if it helps you. It's a remarkable vitamin.
Lao
Posted by bleauberry on January 28, 2012, at 9:55:55
In reply to Schizophrenia, posted by Lao Tzu on January 8, 2012, at 16:25:22
I always find your posts interesting. Thank you. I like your approach.
I think the only weakness I see in the whole deal is that all of the substances are directed at manipulating chemistry but none of them directed at fighting common things that cause our problems in the first place. Anyone who knows me knows I'm talking stuff like anti-toxins, anti-infections, anti-inflammation, pro-immune, pro-adrenal/thyroid/pituitary. For example if we could somehow wave a magic wand and determine you have some stealth bacteria like Lyme or Lyme-like, antibiotics could eventually eliminate the need for the cocktail of supplements because the symptoms are gone since the cause of them is gone....this is just a random example using Lyme....but in this case the supplements were no longer needed because the cause of the bad chemistry was dealt with.
I really like the way you experiment to find out what improves your quality of life and what doesn't. Because without that experimentation, there is absolutely no way to find out or make any progress. So if we have 9 duds in order to find one gem, that's a lot better than never finding the gem at all, which of course would not have happened without getting through the duds.
Posted by Lao Tzu on February 11, 2012, at 14:32:58
In reply to Re: Schizophrenia, posted by bleauberry on January 28, 2012, at 9:55:55
I agree with you that finding the specific cause would allow us to spend less time looking for an around-about way of treating our illness. Unfortunately, there is probably a great need for more specific tests to be invented to rule out this or that and get to the root of the problem. Also unfortunately, the layperson like you and I may not be privy to certain current information science has to offer. Yes, we can read books or study the internet, but I do believe there is information out there somewhere, secrets if you will, that the public at large cannot access. In essence, somebody knows more than us. Little by little, we gain access to new knowledge, but I think we are left in the dark in some areas, and that is why we seek hope in the things that we have researched and experimented. I, myself, don't believe that I do it all exactly as it should be done. I even look at experiences that a few people have had, and ask myself, what if this could work for me? I haven't lost faith in science and medicine, but I think we all deserve better and I believe there are better solutions out there somewhere, maybe where we haven't paid much attention. For example, EMDR has been used for PTSD. I also read that it possibly has applications in other mental illnesses as well. Some people say it doesn't work. Some say it is the greatest tool ever for trauma. Who do we believe without extensive research? I've been looking at EMDR for my schizophrenia and can't find a whole lot of information, but there are some who say it might be helpful. Years ago, before my psychosis, I tried EMDR on myself for my social anxiety. I can't say that I did it 100% correct (I used the bilateral auditory beeps), but I did find that my anxiety dropped quite a bit over the next few days. Mind you, I was taking Effexor and Ativan, but they seemed lacking. Perhaps it was the placebo effect. I even went to a therapist who was trained in EMDR, but didn't stay long enough to get down to the actual process, just a lot of talking; then I left. There is software you can download for EMDR and use it on yourself or in conjunction with a professional therapist. Neuro Innovations is the company. Well, thanks for your comments. I enjoy reading yours as well. Bye.
Lao
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