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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by BetweenDreams81 on January 7, 2012, at 12:29:52
My pdoc is missing the boat...I need to get relief from depression...I have had it for quite a long time, and even when I go hypomanic it's mixed. It just won't go away. So, I'm looking at trying herbals again.
#1 priority that I've been working on is lights off by 12 AM...often it's 3-4 AM. So, I've stuck to a schedule for a week thus far, and plan to drop it to 11 PM in a couple weeks, until I'm getting to bed by 10:30 or so. With the depression I'm feeling, even though I'm going to bed early, I still am having a difficult time getting out of bed. grrr
Though that could be the withdrawal from clonazepam, I used to take 0.5 mg of clonazepam in the evening, and I'm trying to reduce it to nothing at night, and am currently taking 0.25 mg.
Anyhow, the herbs I'm looking at are:Bacopa
Guarana
Gotu Kola
Catuaba
Maca
Ginko Biloba
Lotus Seeds
California poppyOpen to other suggestions/combinations! Though I'm under the impression SJW cannot be taken with Lithium
Currently on Lithium carbonate (900 mg) and Clonazepam (Up to 1.5 mg/day...usually .75mg)
Ideally I'd love to elevate my mood, and increase my energy without increasing anxiety.
Has anyone tried EM Power Plus? Or, is that all just hype?
Oh, a sleep Aid, 'may' be of some benefit...forget Solaray's Sleep Blend though, it didn't touch me.
Looking forward to your thoughts and ideas! TIA!
Posted by Johnnybaklava on January 9, 2012, at 11:15:47
In reply to Gotta try something: Bacopa, Guarana, Gotu Kola???, posted by BetweenDreams81 on January 7, 2012, at 12:29:52
Hi,
Everyone is different, but I've tried a few of the things you mentioned. I was diagnosed with depression, but my pdoc was always trying to push me into bipolar, which never felt right to me. I did have a lot of the signs, but I think this was because she had me try so many different things, never sticking with one for too long, that I was going up and down because of the meds! I quit meds about 3-4 years ago and feel much, much better. But I think I was a pretty mild case, so if you try herbal, give it some time or go in with realistic expectations. From your list, I tried Bacopa which I didn't really like though I have a friend who takes it and she swears by it. For me, it gave me focus which was great but over the course of a few days I would feel just a little weird. More sensitive. Gotu Kola made me very irritable, which is my usual reaction to a lot of things. Maybe a dopamine thing. I'm the same way with tyrosine, though phenylalanine (which works similarly) is great for me! I take about 600mg a day and that has been one of the most important supps for me. Maca made me feel great for a few days then it pooped out. Ginko I liked though I haven't had it in a long time.
I was taking EmPower Plus for a bout a year. It really worked for my mild symptoms. It has phenylalanine and gingko, in addition to a lot of other great stuff. It made me feel motivated and actually had a sort of zoloft quality to it, which was probably my fave drug while it worked. EmPower has a little too much choline for me since I don't have a problem with mania, so if I took too much it actually dampened me more than I like. I stopped taking it ultimately because of cost, and because I was able to simulate its effects with something called Blast, which is basically a multivitamin with caffeine and phenylalanine, grape seed extract, and some adrenal herbs such as holy basil and rhodiola. The combo worked great for me and was actually cheaper than Empower. My latest find is DMAE. That's been working great for me in terms of focus and mood. For sleep, I've tried tons of things but basic melatonin seems to work the best for me. Most everything else I've tried either leaves me groggy the next day, does nothing, or wakes me up in the middle of the night.
Posted by torrid2 on January 13, 2012, at 17:08:24
In reply to Re: Gotta try something: Bacopa, Guarana, Gotu Kola???, posted by Johnnybaklava on January 9, 2012, at 11:15:47
How much DMAE are you taking?
Posted by Johnnybaklava on January 15, 2012, at 11:19:39
In reply to Re: Gotta try something: Bacopa, Guarana, Gotu Kola??? » Johnnybaklava, posted by torrid2 on January 13, 2012, at 17:08:24
I break a 351 mg Capsule (resulting in 130 mg DMAE) in half, and take it in the morning.
Posted by Johnnybaklava on January 15, 2012, at 11:21:30
In reply to Re: Gotta try something: Bacopa, Guarana, Gotu Kola???, posted by Johnnybaklava on January 15, 2012, at 11:19:39
I break a 351 mg Capsule (that says, on the back, that is has 130 mg of actual DMAE) in half, and take it in the morning. So 175mg or 65mg, depending.
Posted by Hombre on January 18, 2012, at 20:39:23
In reply to Gotta try something: Bacopa, Guarana, Gotu Kola???, posted by BetweenDreams81 on January 7, 2012, at 12:29:52
Hi BetweenDreams81...long time no see!
I forget, have you tried magnesium? I'm currently down to 150 effexor (get the zaps by late afternoon if I don't take it) and 30g remeron. I ditched the Seroquel 100mg because I felt too drowsy, but the seroquel/remeron combo taken at 9:30pm (yes, that early) would definitely knock my *ss out by 10:30/11:00. Sleep has always been one of my huge problems.
11pm-1am I think is the liver time in the Chinese medicine 24 hr cycle, and I interpret that as the liver having a chance to process and filter out the stress hormones for that day, otherwise you wake up feeling...nasty...11-7 beats 2-10 in terms of feeling good in the morning, although both are 8 hours of sleep.
It's the I'm a human being vs. I'm a machine approach, I guess.
I went off all supplements because iherb took over a month to ship (xmas and all), and just started back up on ~400mg/day, and I slept noticeably better. My sleep had started to become lighter and lighter, with early morning waking and all the fun that comes with that. I was getting a bit jittery/nervous/anxious as well.
I mimic ZMA (zinc, mag, B6), a popular sports recovery formula, by taking 200mg Bluebonnet Mag Glycinate (albion labs) and zinc glycinate 30mg, I may or may not get my Bs in the morning from a multivitamin or a straight-up B complex, I figure I'm saturated, and taking Bs at night make me wired and can't sleep well.
Also, a serious breathing or meditation discipline practiced morning and night can really make a difference, slowing down your brain, which sucks up so much O2/glucose.
This is probably the hardest to do, and I myself lapse, then practice, realize it works, then lapse...I guess my mind, which is really quite dumb, thinks something that is "free" can't be effective.
Good luck...your tenacity and willingness to try things will lead you to a solution...don't give up! And count your blessings and take stock of all the good things in you, you are perfect no matter what, but of course you deserve to feel well and do what you wanna do in this life.
Peace.
Hombre
Posted by morgan miller on January 20, 2012, at 1:17:48
In reply to Re: Gotta try something: Bacopa, Guarana, Gotu Kola???, posted by Hombre on January 18, 2012, at 20:39:23
Hey BD :)
I know this is the med board, and we've discussed this before, but have you considered trying a low dose of lexapro or zoloft?
I also think it's worth considering LDN-low dose naltrexone-I'm trying it out right now.
Exercise!!! Haha, you know how I feel about that:)
Morgan
Posted by BetweenDreams81 on April 25, 2012, at 16:03:47
In reply to Gotta try something: Bacopa, Guarana, Gotu Kola???, posted by BetweenDreams81 on January 7, 2012, at 12:29:52
Wow! I never responded back...sorry guys! Just came back to revisit for a little spell and saw this. I KNOW I meant to! lol
So I tried Bacopa, which I had really high hopes for but man that just kicked me in the butt and made me turn into the biggest of sloths! So, THAT is out! I did try 1/2 tab at night to see if it would work as a smooth sleep aid...nope even just half a tab had me graoggy in the morning...but that could have happened with anything, 'cause at that time I was going through a major physical depression with the blaahs and brain fog.
It is amazing how incredibly sensitive I am to the seasons; as soon as the days really started getting longer, my body responded a little in kind. Lots of busy activity will do it too. But even still, there is often an underlying depression. So, I just got back from seeing my pdoc (1st time in 6 mos...8-/) And we altered the lithium back down to 600mg...900 was just too dampening; had a major loss of empathic emotions, lots of brain fog and slow recall. And he added Celexa 10mg/day for the first wk and then 20mg/day.
still taking Vitex...any women out there who get super irritable during your cycle, it is a lifesaver for everyone around you!
I'm not very good to sticking with supplements, wish I were. But so far, I feel like my energy has picked up and hopefully that underlying greyday will fade out soon.
Hombre: What are good stess hormone cleansers? I could take that around 10 PM from the sounds of the liver times (? yes?) or would that be for kidney/adrenal times?
Morgan: How is the LDN working for you? And what is your opinion on Celexa?
Johnnybaklava: Is the DMAE still working well for you? How long did it take to notice a difference?
Thx for all the input!
Posted by Johnnybaklava on April 26, 2012, at 10:55:26
In reply to Re: Gotta try something: Bacopa, Guarana, Gotu Kola???, posted by BetweenDreams81 on April 25, 2012, at 16:03:47
Hi! I stopped the DMAE a while back. I'm not quite sure why, actuallyit seemed to be working fine. I think I just wanted to see if there was something better. Bacopa actually made me feel pretty distant and a little fragile, oddly. I didn't like the feeling. What's working for me now is Gaia adrenal herbs, gingko and phenylalanine. I'm waiting for some magnesium l-threonate. I've heard good things and I'm under a lot of stress now so hopefully it'll help me cope.
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