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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Phillipa on June 5, 2011, at 21:19:34
In reply to Re: Fish oil: Does anyone feel worse on it? » Phillipa, posted by SLS on June 5, 2011, at 19:45:53
Your're welcome. I'm hoping it does something like help? Phillipa
Posted by Lao Tzu on June 6, 2011, at 16:23:38
In reply to Fish oil: Does anyone feel worse on it?, posted by SLS on June 5, 2011, at 10:42:48
Yes, actually some people do worse on fish oil. Some do better. Have you tried borage oil? It contains omega-6 fatty acids. You may do better on the omega-6s rather than omega-3s. I have to take a little of both to feel better. Good luck.
Lao
Posted by SLS on June 7, 2011, at 5:04:17
In reply to Re: Fish oil: Does anyone feel worse on it?, posted by Lao Tzu on June 6, 2011, at 16:23:38
Posted by Lao Tzu on June 8, 2011, at 14:21:33
In reply to Fish oil: Does anyone feel worse on it? - Thanks! (nm) » Lao Tzu, posted by SLS on June 7, 2011, at 5:04:17
If you try fish oil, maybe start off with 1 to 2 grams (lowest dosage listed on the bottle) and see how that feels. For myself, I can only tolerate 1.5 grams, and that's it!! Higher dosages make me feel really tired and borderline depressed, so be careful. Adding some borage oil might help with a small dosage of fish oil, or perhaps you just can't tolerate the fish oil. Some people can't. Good luck!
Lao
Posted by Hyena on June 16, 2011, at 3:32:27
In reply to Fish oil: Does anyone feel worse on it?, posted by SLS on June 5, 2011, at 10:42:48
> I just started taking Carlsons fish oil this week. I seem to feel that my depression worsens within an hour of dosing. Has anyone experienced anything like this? This morning was pretty bad.
>
>
> - ScottHi,
I've been taking high EPA fish oil for several months now and it's almost completely obliterated my anxiety and depression. The only problem is that I can't take certain other supplements with it or it makes my depression worse. This is a small price to pay for me as the others never helped much anyway and I try to get all my other nutrients from a healthy diet.
These are the supplements I've found to react badly with fish oil and that I now avoid:
Vitamin b complex and b6 in particular
Selenium
Magnesium
Manganese
Rhodiola
Any multivitamin/mineralI don't know exactly why these cause a reaction but I think that they may raise glutamate when combined with fish oil. I say this because I get a very similar reaction when I take l-glutamine. It doesn't feel like normal depression for me. There's a paranoid feeling that comes with it.
One thing I've found is if I lower the fish oil dose Incan tolerate some of the above sups. I usually take 1500mg of EPA but if I only take 1000mg I can take the others. The problem is 1000mg is not enough for me to get the full benefits of EPA.
Posted by floatingbridge on July 4, 2011, at 11:58:38
In reply to Re: Fish oil: Does anyone feel worse on it? » SLS, posted by Hyena on June 16, 2011, at 3:32:27
Hyena,
Glutamate? That's a supplement my gp reccommended (I think) and I had to stop. Headaches! Oh. L-Glutamine. Still....
> > I just started taking Carlsons fish oil this week. I seem to feel that my depression worsens within an hour of dosing. Has anyone experienced anything like this? This morning was pretty bad.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Hi,
> I've been taking high EPA fish oil for several months now and it's almost completely obliterated my anxiety and depression. The only problem is that I can't take certain other supplements with it or it makes my depression worse. This is a small price to pay for me as the others never helped much anyway and I try to get all my other nutrients from a healthy diet.
> These are the supplements I've found to react badly with fish oil and that I now avoid:
> Vitamin b complex and b6 in particular
> Selenium
> Magnesium
> Manganese
> Rhodiola
> Any multivitamin/mineral
>
> I don't know exactly why these cause a reaction but I think that they may raise glutamate when combined with fish oil. I say this because I get a very similar reaction when I take l-glutamine. It doesn't feel like normal depression for me. There's a paranoid feeling that comes with it.
> One thing I've found is if I lower the fish oil dose Incan tolerate some of the above sups. I usually take 1500mg of EPA but if I only take 1000mg I can take the others. The problem is 1000mg is not enough for me to get the full benefits of EPA.
>
Posted by floatingbridge on July 4, 2011, at 12:03:53
In reply to Fish oil: Does anyone feel worse on it?, posted by SLS on June 5, 2011, at 10:42:48
Scott,
Have you dropped or reduced the fish oil? Do you think a vegetable source oil might give you the response you're looking for?
fb
> I just started taking Carlsons fish oil this week. I seem to feel that my depression worsens within an hour of dosing. Has anyone experienced anything like this? This morning was pretty bad.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by Phillipa on July 4, 2011, at 12:37:08
In reply to Re: Fish oil: Does anyone feel worse on it?, posted by floatingbridge on July 4, 2011, at 11:58:38
Just finished the bottle of nordic naturals so took for a month. Wasn't going to get more as saw no benefit might have helped with medical stuff only seen in blookwork. I wonder if tomorrow when the place opens if should get more. But I take magnesium citrate and an MVI. I was taking two capsules per the bioidentical owner pharmacist a lot younger than me he said he takes 2 capsules a day when he remembers and an MVI? But then he's "normal". No depression, anxiety. Think it makes a difference? Phillipa
Posted by SLS on July 4, 2011, at 12:53:35
In reply to Re: Fish oil: Does anyone feel worse on it?, posted by floatingbridge on July 4, 2011, at 12:03:53
> Scott,
>
> Have you dropped or reduced the fish oil?I discontinued it completely. I seem to be doing better without it.
> Do you think a vegetable source oil might give
My rationale for adding fish oil was to supply the brain cells with nutrition, and not to seek a response per se. I expected to feel nothing right away. I hoped to see the rate of my recovery accelerate moderately rather than see a full response immediately. That fish oil makes me feel worse is a real bummer. It makes sense to me to combine fish oil with phosphatidylserine to enhance neurotrophism.
- Scott
Posted by floatingbridge on July 4, 2011, at 15:26:54
In reply to Re: Fish oil: Does anyone feel worse on it?, posted by SLS on July 4, 2011, at 12:53:35
> > Scott,
> >
> > Have you dropped or reduced the fish oil?
>
> I discontinued it completely. I seem to be doing better without it.
>
> > Do you think a vegetable source oil might give try?
>
> My rationale for adding fish oil was to supply the brain cells with nutrition, and not to seek a response per se. I expected to feel nothing right away. I hoped to see the rate of my recovery accelerate moderately rather than see a full response immediately. That fish oil
makes me feel worse is a real bummer. It makes sense to me to combine fish oil with phosphatidylserine to enhance neurotrophism.
>
>
> - ScottI hear you on the real bummer part. I am hearing that the omegas in fish oil can be found in vegetable sources and that the vegatable sources are tolerated sometimes when fish sourced oil is not.
I don't know. But since we all want the best for each other, I'll risk ignorance to suggest that maybe your hunch about the omegas +posphatidylserine is still
possibly viable if another oil source is used.I support moderate support over rapid.
:-)
fb
Posted by floatingbridge on July 4, 2011, at 15:29:58
In reply to Re: Fish oil: Does anyone feel worse on it?, posted by floatingbridge on July 4, 2011, at 15:26:54
Posted by SLS on July 7, 2011, at 11:34:31
In reply to Re: Fish oil: Does anyone feel worse on it?, posted by floatingbridge on July 4, 2011, at 15:26:54
Hi All.
I have decided to run another trial of fish oil, but at a lower dosage: 1600mg EPA and 1000mg DHA. I'll be happy if I feel nothing at all. If I feel worse again, I might conclude that I am taking too much DHA. I am using Carlson's liquid fish oil.
Thanks.
I appreciate the feedback.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on July 7, 2011, at 21:16:14
In reply to Re: Fish oil: Does anyone feel worse on it?, posted by SLS on July 7, 2011, at 11:34:31
Scott didn't read the thread over but if didn't mention above the bioidentical pharmacist who recommended Nordic Naturals to me said takes four weeks to develop the enzyme to allow the fish oil to work. I need to buy more myself. Good luck. Phillipa
Posted by SLS on July 8, 2011, at 5:32:15
In reply to Re: Fish oil: Does anyone feel worse on it? » SLS, posted by Phillipa on July 7, 2011, at 21:16:14
> Scott didn't read the thread over but if didn't mention above the bioidentical pharmacist who recommended Nordic Naturals to me said takes four weeks to develop the enzyme to allow the fish oil to work. I need to buy more myself. Good luck. Phillipa
Thanks.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on July 8, 2011, at 5:33:37
In reply to Re: Fish oil: Does anyone feel worse on it? » SLS, posted by Hyena on June 16, 2011, at 3:32:27
Posted by SLS on July 8, 2011, at 5:37:06
In reply to Re: Fish oil: Does anyone feel worse on it? » SLS, posted by Hyena on June 16, 2011, at 3:32:27
Posted by Hyena on July 11, 2011, at 13:28:51
In reply to Re: Fish oil: Does anyone feel worse on it?, posted by floatingbridge on July 4, 2011, at 11:58:38
yeah i had a terrible reaction to l-glutamine which is the precursor to the neurotransmitter glutamate. l-glutamine can be turned into either GABA which relaxes you or glutamate which excites neurons and can cause anxiety.
Anyway I dont really know if fish oil might increase glutamate in some cases but the feeling i get when there is a bad reaction to fish oil is similar to what I get from l-glutamine.
> Hyena,
>
> Glutamate? That's a supplement my gp reccommended (I think) and I had to stop. Headaches! Oh. L-Glutamine. Still....
>
> > > I just started taking Carlsons fish oil this week. I seem to feel that my depression worsens within an hour of dosing. Has anyone experienced anything like this? This morning was pretty bad.
> > >
> > >
> > > - Scott
> >
> > Hi,
> > I've been taking high EPA fish oil for several months now and it's almost completely obliterated my anxiety and depression. The only problem is that I can't take certain other supplements with it or it makes my depression worse. This is a small price to pay for me as the others never helped much anyway and I try to get all my other nutrients from a healthy diet.
> > These are the supplements I've found to react badly with fish oil and that I now avoid:
> > Vitamin b complex and b6 in particular
> > Selenium
> > Magnesium
> > Manganese
> > Rhodiola
> > Any multivitamin/mineral
> >
> > I don't know exactly why these cause a reaction but I think that they may raise glutamate when combined with fish oil. I say this because I get a very similar reaction when I take l-glutamine. It doesn't feel like normal depression for me. There's a paranoid feeling that comes with it.
> > One thing I've found is if I lower the fish oil dose Incan tolerate some of the above sups. I usually take 1500mg of EPA but if I only take 1000mg I can take the others. The problem is 1000mg is not enough for me to get the full benefits of EPA.
> >
>
>
Posted by Hyena on July 11, 2011, at 13:35:00
In reply to Re: Fish oil: Does anyone feel worse on it?, posted by SLS on July 7, 2011, at 11:34:31
> Hi All.
>
> I have decided to run another trial of fish oil, but at a lower dosage: 1600mg EPA and 1000mg DHA. I'll be happy if I feel nothing at all. If I feel worse again, I might conclude that I am taking too much DHA. I am using Carlson's liquid fish oil.
>
> Thanks.
>
> I appreciate the feedback.
>
>
> - Scott
There are brands with higher ratios of EPA to DHA available. EPA is thought to be the active ingredient. This is an interesting article that helps explain it: http://www.fightingdepression.co.uk/epa-not-dha-for-depression-dr-barry-sears
also taking vitamin E with the fish oil will give you better results. Vitamin E prevents oxidation of the fatty acids in your body.
Posted by floatingbridge on July 11, 2011, at 16:11:24
In reply to Re: Fish oil: Does anyone feel worse on it? » floatingbridge, posted by Hyena on July 11, 2011, at 13:28:51
Hyena, this information is really helpful. I didn't know the relationship between gaba or glutamate. I was given the L-glutamine at the same time as gaba. I can tolerate gaba fine.
I think I recall high glutamate levels found in a sub population of fibromyalgia nos patients. Some patients do better when avoiding additives like msg. I think this is related....
Thanks.
> yeah i had a terrible reaction to l-glutamine which is the precursor to the neurotransmitter glutamate. l-glutamine can be turned into either GABA which relaxes you or glutamate which excites neurons and can cause anxiety.
> Anyway I dont really know if fish oil might increase glutamate in some cases but the feeling i get when there is a bad reaction to fish oil is similar to what I get from l-glutamine.
>
>
> > Hyena,
> >
> > Glutamate? That's a supplement my gp reccommended (I think) and I had to stop. Headaches! Oh. L-Glutamine. Still....
> >
> > > > I just started taking Carlsons fish oil this week. I seem to feel that my depression worsens within an hour of dosing. Has anyone experienced anything like this? This morning was pretty bad.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - Scott
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > > I've been taking high EPA fish oil for several months now and it's almost completely obliterated my anxiety and depression. The only problem is that I can't take certain other supplements with it or it makes my depression worse. This is a small price to pay for me as the others never helped much anyway and I try to get all my other nutrients from a healthy diet.
> > > These are the supplements I've found to react badly with fish oil and that I now avoid:
> > > Vitamin b complex and b6 in particular
> > > Selenium
> > > Magnesium
> > > Manganese
> > > Rhodiola
> > > Any multivitamin/mineral
> > >
> > > I don't know exactly why these cause a reaction but I think that they may raise glutamate when combined with fish oil. I say this because I get a very similar reaction when I take l-glutamine. It doesn't feel like normal depression for me. There's a paranoid feeling that comes with it.
> > > One thing I've found is if I lower the fish oil dose Incan tolerate some of the above sups. I usually take 1500mg of EPA but if I only take 1000mg I can take the others. The problem is 1000mg is not enough for me to get the full benefits of EPA.
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by larryhoover on July 13, 2011, at 19:57:42
In reply to Re: Fish oil: Does anyone feel worse on it?, posted by SLS on July 7, 2011, at 11:34:31
> Hi All.
>
> I have decided to run another trial of fish oil, but at a lower dosage: 1600mg EPA and 1000mg DHA. I'll be happy if I feel nothing at all. If I feel worse again, I might conclude that I am taking too much DHA. I am using Carlson's liquid fish oil.
>
> Thanks.
>
> I appreciate the feedback.
>
>
> - ScottScotty Dog, how are you with whole fish? Really, the best data have come from fish eaters, not fish oil consumers. Fish is brain food for more reasons than the omega-3 fats.
Lar
Posted by SLS on July 14, 2011, at 5:42:52
In reply to Re: Fish oil: Does anyone feel worse on it? » SLS, posted by larryhoover on July 13, 2011, at 19:57:42
> > Hi All.
> >
> > I have decided to run another trial of fish oil, but at a lower dosage: 1600mg EPA and 1000mg DHA. I'll be happy if I feel nothing at all. If I feel worse again, I might conclude that I am taking too much DHA. I am using Carlson's liquid fish oil.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > I appreciate the feedback.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Scotty Dog, how are you with whole fish? Really, the best data have come from fish eaters, not fish oil consumers. Fish is brain food for more reasons than the omega-3 fats.
>
> Lar
Hi Larry.I have rechallenged myself three times with Carlson's fish oil. All three times, my depression became significantly worse. I am wondering if the ratio of EPA:DHA is too low. The product is formulated as 8:5 EPA/DHA. I have read that EPA is the active counterpart, and that pure DHA can precipitate or worsen depression. I am considering trying Omegabrite, which is 10:1 EPA/DHA. I don't care if I experience an acute antidepressant effect from fish oil. It was my rationale that it would accelerate my rate of recovery from depression over the course of months, not days.
The only fish that I am apt to eat is canned tuna. I am really not a fish eater.
Any insights?
http://www.omegabrite.com/index.html
- Scott
Posted by sregan on August 9, 2011, at 15:25:24
In reply to Fish oil: Does anyone feel worse on it?, posted by SLS on June 5, 2011, at 10:42:48
> I just started taking Carlsons fish oil this week. I seem to feel that my depression worsens within an hour of dosing. Has anyone experienced anything like this? This morning was pretty bad.
Scott you might be experiencing a toxic bile dump triggered by the oil. You'll feel awful from taking the oil. The only way to know is to take either some ox bile with the oil (which may prevent your own bile dump) or even better some charcoal caps with the oil. If this fixes it then most likely it's a bile issue.
Posted by SLS on August 9, 2011, at 20:31:00
In reply to Re: Fish oil: Does anyone feel worse on it? » SLS, posted by sregan on August 9, 2011, at 15:25:24
Thank you.
- Scott
> > I just started taking Carlsons fish oil this week. I seem to feel that my depression worsens within an hour of dosing. Has anyone experienced anything like this? This morning was pretty bad.
>
> Scott you might be experiencing a toxic bile dump triggered by the oil. You'll feel awful from taking the oil. The only way to know is to take either some ox bile with the oil (which may prevent your own bile dump) or even better some charcoal caps with the oil. If this fixes it then most likely it's a bile issue.
Posted by morgan miller on September 19, 2011, at 15:40:15
In reply to Fish oil: Does anyone feel worse on it?, posted by SLS on June 5, 2011, at 10:42:48
Scott, individual reactions to fish oil are dose dependent and dependent on the ratio of EPA to DHA. Haven't read through the thread, have you tried experimenting yet?
I would do Carlson's Cod Liver oil in liquid with a higher DHA to EPA ratio. Their cod liver oil is also from a much better source than their fish oil, which comes from the same rancid source that 97 percent of all other fish oil companies get their source. It's a total f*ck*ng scam dude.
Morgan
Posted by morgan miller on September 19, 2011, at 15:44:33
In reply to Re: Fish oil: Does anyone feel worse on it?, posted by SLS on July 7, 2011, at 11:34:31
> Hi All.
>
> I have decided to run another trial of fish oil, but at a lower dosage: 1600mg EPA and 1000mg DHA. I'll be happy if I feel nothing at all. If I feel worse again, I might conclude that I am taking too much DHA. I am using Carlson's liquid fish oil.You may simply be taking too much EPA and DHA. Sure the studies show success with high doses of EPA, but this does not mean everyone with depression will respond positively to such high doses, as I am sure you already know.
This is the end of the thread.
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