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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by LeMec on June 12, 2011, at 10:31:33
Hello,
I recently read a study where researchers gave depressed patients zinc supplements in addition to their antidepressants. Link: http://goo.gl/j6xEg
So I decided to try Zinc at 200mg a day in addition to my Wellbutrin, and the results so far have been encouraging. At day 3 I feel like I have more energy, my sleep quality has improved, and most strikingly the rumination and anger that had hitherto dominated my thoughts has declined significantly.
I've also noticed improvements in muscle strength and lung function leading me to believe that I may have been Zinc deficient.
Zinc deficiency can be correlated with depression since depression increases sugar cravings and sugar depletes Zinc in the system.
Anyone else had luck with Zinc?
Posted by torrid on June 12, 2011, at 11:22:45
In reply to Zinc for Depression, posted by LeMec on June 12, 2011, at 10:31:33
read poeple with ADD/ADHD have low zinc levels, I think I read something about selenium too
Posted by larryhoover on June 13, 2011, at 23:09:53
In reply to Zinc for Depression, posted by LeMec on June 12, 2011, at 10:31:33
> Hello,
>
> I recently read a study where researchers gave depressed patients zinc supplements in addition to their antidepressants. Link: http://goo.gl/j6xEgThe trial used 25 mg/day zinc.
> So I decided to try Zinc at 200mg a day in addition to my Wellbutrin, and the results so far have been encouraging.
At that zinc intake level, you are way above the upper safe limit. You should never exceed 40 mg/day, as you will suppress copper uptake. Above 80 mg/day, you will also suppress iron uptake. Zinc, copper, and iron ions have to be pumped out of the gut via special transporters, and your zinc intake will swamp the transport system, blocking uptake of other essential minerals from your food.
You must stop your zinc supplements for a week, and restart at 25-40 mg/day.
Lar
Posted by torrid on June 14, 2011, at 1:05:52
In reply to Re: Zinc for Depression » LeMec, posted by larryhoover on June 13, 2011, at 23:09:53
I'm above the safe limit in my zinc intake but I do take 2mg copper too, didn't know about the iron, I guess they must compete and zinc wins. I started the zinc and selenium for hair loss from meds, taking NAC too. I'll have too cut back the zinc.
Posted by torrid on June 15, 2011, at 9:03:18
In reply to Re: Zinc for Depression » LeMec, posted by larryhoover on June 13, 2011, at 23:09:53
> > Hello,
> >
> > I recently read a study where researchers gave depressed patients zinc supplements in addition to their antidepressants. Link: http://goo.gl/j6xEg
>
> The trial used 25 mg/day zinc.
>
> > So I decided to try Zinc at 200mg a day in addition to my Wellbutrin, and the results so far have been encouraging.
>
> At that zinc intake level, you are way above the upper safe limit. You should never exceed 40 mg/day, as you will suppress copper uptake. Above 80 mg/day, you will also suppress iron uptake. Zinc, copper, and iron ions have to be pumped out of the gut via special transporters, and your zinc intake will swamp the transport system, blocking uptake of other essential minerals from your food.
>
> You must stop your zinc supplements for a week, and restart at 25-40 mg/day.
>
> Larlarry, I cut zinc down, I've been supplimenting zinc and selium for about 2-3 months for hair loss from AD. I knew about copper but didn't know about iron. I guess they compete for absorbtion and zinc wins. I started busbar and cymbalta soon after I started the zinc and had side effects could be zinc related as easily as busbar. Could zinc wipe out hemoglobin in a 2-3 months? Next month I'll get doc to take my blood, meen while I'll get vitimin C. I've ignored vitimin C and when I took a look at my fridge there is not a lot of vitimin C in there. I cook on cast iron and can't imagine I'd need to suppliment iron.
Posted by larryhoover on June 15, 2011, at 10:34:25
In reply to Re: Zinc for Depression » larryhoover, posted by torrid on June 15, 2011, at 9:03:18
> larry, I cut zinc down, I've been supplimenting zinc and selium for about 2-3 months for hair loss from AD. I knew about copper but didn't know about iron. I guess they compete for absorbtion and zinc wins. I started busbar and cymbalta soon after I started the zinc and had side effects could be zinc related as easily as busbar. Could zinc wipe out hemoglobin in a 2-3 months? Next month I'll get doc to take my blood, meen while I'll get vitimin C. I've ignored vitimin C and when I took a look at my fridge there is not a lot of vitimin C in there. I cook on cast iron and can't imagine I'd need to suppliment iron.
No, you probably don't need an iron supp, but the best measure of that is a routine blood test. You don't reveal how much selenium you've been taking, nor how much zinc. On a maintenance schedule, I would not recommend taking over 200 mcg/day selenium, and 40 mg/day zinc. You should always use a selenium yeast product, as most of the selenium will already be incorporated into methionine (selenomethionine cannot be synthesized by humans, and it is the dominant selenium compound in most yeast-based products.....avoid one mentioning selenite and/or selenate as the major selenium compounds).
BTW, selenomethionine may be protective against mercury exposure, binding the mercury irreversibly, and detoxifying it. Selenomethionine may also help protect against the oxidant peroxynitrite, which has been implicated in creating the fatigue and brain fog associated with fibromyalgia. The dominant dietary source of selenomethionine is wheat, but those avoiding gluten will not obtain that benefit. Moreover, soils in Europe and Australia are deficient in selenium, so wheat locally sourced will not provide sufficient selenium in those areas of the world.
Geez, I can go off on tangents, eh?
Getting back to zinc suppressing uptake of other minerals....
Picture a small train, with a crowded platform. Copper ions move slowly. Iron ions are intermediate. And zinc is pushy. When the train doors open, and if there's a lot of zinc around, it will push through the doors out of proportion to the number of atoms waiting to board the car. Some copper and iron atoms will always make it, but their success rate will fall inversely to the amount of zinc waiting to board the transport.
What I'm saying is that there is no bright line between doses of zinc supplements and their effects on uptake of other minerals. It gradually changes as the zinc dose goes up, and your transporters might have different sensitivities than someone elses. The doses I've provided are derived from statistics, but that's the best information that's out there.
Lar
Posted by torrid on June 15, 2011, at 17:45:37
In reply to Re: Zinc for Depression » torrid, posted by larryhoover on June 15, 2011, at 10:34:25
Larry thanks so much for taking the time to answer in such detail. I was taking to much of both selenium and zinc. I read 50 mcg of zinc and 150-180 selenium for hair loss. Zinc is in my mineral suppliment and my multi 15mcg each so before the zinc suppliment I all ready was getting 30mcg, then I added 50mcg zinc on top wich wasn't that bad if I hadn't doubled up taking the zinc and selenium twice a day. that's 130mcg zinc and 400mcg selenium. I so much want to keep my hair on my head.
I don't know if zinc can make you sick so quickly but I stopped the zinc and selenium and I'm no longer sleeping 15 hours a day. Can't say if it's from a 25% dose reduction in busbar or from quitting Zinc. I am gluten free for 15-20 years. I eat very little grain, a little rice and buckwheat nothing else. it sounds like I should continue the selenium.
I take magnieium glycinate 800 mg/day and a small mineral suppliment D 400iu, K 100mcg, calcium cittrate/malate, 350 magnisium glycinate174, zinc 15 copper 2mg manganese 3.6. I also take NAC, ALCAR, B complex, multi, plus intermittenly SAMe.
If you have any further advise I'd be interested to read it. thanks
Posted by larryhoover on June 15, 2011, at 21:09:32
In reply to Re: Zinc for Depression » larryhoover, posted by torrid on June 15, 2011, at 17:45:37
I think the zinc was leading to the excessive sleep. Zinc can stimulate the formation of melatonin in the pineal gland. I think you amped yours up too high.
I'd up your vitamin D intake. I know you'd be getting a good bit in your salmon, but deficiencies are associated with a number of mental health issues, and we wouldn't want to leave that to chance. I'd go to 2000 IU/day.
Lar
Posted by torrid on June 16, 2011, at 10:49:09
In reply to Re: Zinc for Depression » torrid, posted by larryhoover on June 15, 2011, at 21:09:32
soppliment vit D even in summer?
Posted by larryhoover on June 16, 2011, at 12:52:25
In reply to Re: Zinc for Depression » larryhoover, posted by torrid on June 16, 2011, at 10:49:09
> soppliment vit D even in summer?
That's a call you'll have to make, based on your outdoor activity level. If you're using sunscreen, you're not making vitamin D. And some people just don't make much vitamin D. Despite what you may read on the subject, there is no issue of toxicity if you use D3. D2 (ergocalciferol) does have toxic concerns, though.
Lar
Posted by torrid on June 16, 2011, at 12:57:20
In reply to Re: Zinc for Depression » torrid, posted by larryhoover on June 16, 2011, at 12:52:25
thanks
Posted by zatar on August 20, 2011, at 11:31:22
In reply to Re: Zinc for Depression » torrid, posted by larryhoover on June 16, 2011, at 12:52:25
>If you're using sunscreen, you're not making vitamin D. And some people just don't make much vitamin D. Despite what you may read on the subject, there is no issue of toxicity if you use D3. D2 (ergocalciferol) does have toxic concerns, though.
>
> LarHow does being heterozygous or homozygous for VDR Taq and/or Fok affect your vitamin D requirements? I've never been able to find an article that directly relates these polymorphisms to vitamin D status or daily requirements.
I'm +/+ for VDR Taq and my daughter is +/- for both VDR Taq and Fok. We both tend to run low or low normal on Vitamin D 25-hydroxy levels (without vit. D supplementation). My internist put me on high dose (50,000 units weekly) of D2, but it seems if D3 would be better. I'd really appreciate elucidation on this issue. BTW, an endocrinologist at Mayo that I consulted said he personally takes and recommends 2,000 i.u. D3 per day, but that vitamin D 25-hydroxy levels in the 30s are "normal" and not correlated with any disease.
Vitamin D2 is much less effective than vitamin D3 in humans: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15531486
-Zatar
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