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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by RichardB on November 11, 2005, at 17:44:45
Just who WANTS to take pills???? For Stress? depression? Anxiety? I mean SERIOUSLY!!! If there was something, FDA approved, that profoundly reduces these and makes you feel what is NORMAL for you, without drugs or the side effects of drugs, and without ANY lasting or dangerous or debilitating side effects, who would do the loudest complaining????
PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES...
Take a look at bht-us.com or alpha-stim.com
Posted by lunesta on November 11, 2005, at 17:44:45
In reply to Alpha-stim vs anxiety and depression, posted by RichardB on November 11, 2005, at 14:22:18
i would like to try this by 400-800 dollars for the unit is quite a bit. i dont have that much.
Posted by RichardB on November 12, 2005, at 0:39:04
In reply to Re: Alpha-stim vs anxiety and depression » RichardB, posted by lunesta on November 11, 2005, at 17:32:08
Alpha-stims are initially more expensive than anti-anxiety, anti-depression and and insomnia medication. But they are ONE TIME EXPENSE!!. In addition, many authorized distributors offer rent to own, thereby stretching out payment for 6 months to one year.
Posted by pseudoname on November 12, 2005, at 9:23:29
In reply to Alpha-stim vs anxiety and depression, posted by RichardB on November 11, 2005, at 14:22:18
> If there was something, FDA approved...
Just to be clear, CES is *not* FDA-approved for the treatment of depression in the way that Prozac has been approved. To quote Larry Hoover's post from earlier this year:
<quote>
With respect to FDA approval, I'd like to make clear that this type of device is approved only because a substantially equivalent device was already in use prior to the enactment of medical device regulations in 1976. As such, the vendors of these devices only need to show that their product is not a novel type of device, and they circumvent proper oversight via a grandfather clause loophole. These devices are Class 3, which have the greatest likelihood of adverse effects or injury to the patient. That said, it's hard to tell just what these devices do, let alone how they could hurt.Here's what the FDA has to say about Class 3 devices:
http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/devadvice/3132.html
<unquote>
—http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20050222/msgs/461863.htmlThat's not to say it won't help someone or isn't worth a try. Like so much in this area, it has simply not had proper evaluative studies. Reports in the Babble archives are mixed.
Posted by willyee on November 12, 2005, at 11:49:40
In reply to Alpha-stim vs anxiety and depression, posted by RichardB on November 11, 2005, at 14:22:18
> Just who WANTS to take pills???? For Stress? depression? Anxiety? I mean SERIOUSLY!!! If there was something, FDA approved, that profoundly reduces these and makes you feel what is NORMAL for you, without drugs or the side effects of drugs, and without ANY lasting or dangerous or debilitating side effects, who would do the loudest complaining????
>
> PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES...
>
> Take a look at bht-us.com or alpha-stim.com
Okay i have alpha stim,please dont present it as a cure or better than medication.Its treatment falls under the same umbella that is AS,AS AS effective as medication,which means some people might like it,some not.
Also not to mislead anyone,alpha stim actualy recomends u DO NOT STOP MEDS,but in fact use its product in conjunction with meds.
I will admitt at one time i used it and it might have helped my medication,but it just isnt effective enough to be 100 percent sure of it.
So yess it can be considered a great tool in ones aresnal of meds,herbs etc,.....only downside,hmmmmmm it only cost nearly a 1000 bucks.
I do not personaly find it worht the price,it has not brought me 1000 dollers worht of reliaf.
just my two cents is all.
Posted by RichardB on November 12, 2005, at 11:49:42
In reply to Re: Alpha-stim vs anxiety and depression, posted by willyee on November 11, 2005, at 19:29:33
> > Just who WANTS to take pills???? For Stress? depression? Anxiety? I mean SERIOUSLY!!! If there was something, FDA approved, that profoundly reduces these and makes you feel what is NORMAL for you, without drugs or the side effects of drugs, and without ANY lasting or dangerous or debilitating side effects, who would do the loudest complaining????
> >
> > PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES...
> >
> > Take a look at bht-us.com or alpha-stim.com
>
>
> Okay i have alpha stim,please dont present it as a cure or better than medication.
>
> Its treatment falls under the same umbella that is AS,AS AS effective as medication,which means some people might like it,some not.
>
> Also not to mislead anyone,alpha stim actualy recomends u DO NOT STOP MEDS,but in fact use its product in conjunction with meds.
>
> I will admitt at one time i used it and it might have helped my medication,but it just isnt effective enough to be 100 percent sure of it.
>
> So yess it can be considered a great tool in ones aresnal of meds,herbs etc,.....only downside,hmmmmmm it only cost nearly a 1000 bucks.
>
> I do not personaly find it worht the price,it has not brought me 1000 dollers worht of reliaf.
>
> just my two cents is all.
>
---------------------------------------------The FDA never said, nor do I that the alpha-stim works BETTER than drugs. What I said is without the SIDE EFFECTS OF DRUGS. How many hundreds of thousands of people are taking drugs whose side effects make their lives a living hell. Why don't you ask them: if the treatment is as effective, without the side effects wouldn't you or your doctor consider it???
Secondly, the SCS model of the alpha-stim lists for $495, and many distributors offer refurbished units for conseridably less. With one year warranty.
I'm sorry if you weren't given those options.
Posted by Cecilia on November 12, 2005, at 11:49:42
In reply to Re: Alpha-stim vs anxiety and depression, posted by RichardB on November 12, 2005, at 1:11:59
I tried the Alph-Stim and it did absolutely nothing for depression, anxiety, insomnia or chronic pain. Cecilia
Posted by gardenergirl on November 12, 2005, at 12:09:45
In reply to Re: Alpha-stim vs anxiety and depression, posted by RichardB on November 12, 2005, at 1:11:59
RichardB,
What is your relationship to the manufacturers and/or distributors of this device?gg
Posted by willyee on November 12, 2005, at 13:26:04
In reply to Re: Alpha-stim vs anxiety and depression, posted by RichardB on November 12, 2005, at 1:11:59
> > > Just who WANTS to take pills???? For Stress? depression? Anxiety? I mean SERIOUSLY!!! If there was something, FDA approved, that profoundly reduces these and makes you feel what is NORMAL for you, without drugs or the side effects of drugs, and without ANY lasting or dangerous or debilitating side effects, who would do the loudest complaining????
> > >
> > > PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES...
> > >
> > > Take a look at bht-us.com or alpha-stim.com
> >
> >
> > Okay i have alpha stim,please dont present it as a cure or better than medication.
> >
> > Its treatment falls under the same umbella that is AS,AS AS effective as medication,which means some people might like it,some not.
> >
> > Also not to mislead anyone,alpha stim actualy recomends u DO NOT STOP MEDS,but in fact use its product in conjunction with meds.
> >
> > I will admitt at one time i used it and it might have helped my medication,but it just isnt effective enough to be 100 percent sure of it.
> >
> > So yess it can be considered a great tool in ones aresnal of meds,herbs etc,.....only downside,hmmmmmm it only cost nearly a 1000 bucks.
> >
> > I do not personaly find it worht the price,it has not brought me 1000 dollers worht of reliaf.
> >
> > just my two cents is all.
> >
> ---------------------------------------------
>
> The FDA never said, nor do I that the alpha-stim works BETTER than drugs. What I said is without the SIDE EFFECTS OF DRUGS. How many hundreds of thousands of people are taking drugs whose side effects make their lives a living hell. Why don't you ask them: if the treatment is as effective, without the side effects wouldn't you or your doctor consider it???
>
> Secondly, the SCS model of the alpha-stim lists for $495, and many distributors offer refurbished units for conseridably less. With one year warranty.
>
> I'm sorry if you weren't given those options.
I sure was given the option of a second hand unit.But when spending that range of money,between 500-800 dollers who wants to spend 500 bucks on a second hand used unit?Well i did,i dont blame anyone for that,i am an adult,i made the decision to do so,if i could go back id have saved that money.
The unit is also cheap looking,does not have the appearence of a pieace of equipment that should cost such a high amount of money,i felt quite silly when i finaly saw what i spent 500 dollers on,its a fragile pieace of plastic.My 30 walkman was more sturdy built.
Overall i would have still invested in it if the price range were no higher than 100 dollers for a brand new unit.
And the website doesent come right out and say it,but they sure do make it seem like this product is a must for depressives,personaly i think its a shame companys are willing to shaft people when they know they are in pain and desperate.
Kinda like kicking a man when hes down.I also dont believe you have to exactly say something to project a idea onto people,this is what makes a good sales person,and i believe personaly your post did so,and i like gardengirl saw your post as a sales lead,im not saying u are affilated with the company,just saying thats the impression i gathered.Whether u care to state whether or not you are is up to you.
One of my regrets along paying certain docs is spending 500 on a second hanf pieace of equipment.I should have known better but the way i feel,the desperation has led me to do a ton of things i normaly would know better than.
>
>
>
>
>
Posted by RichardB on November 12, 2005, at 18:04:53
In reply to Please provide disclosure » RichardB, posted by gardenergirl on November 12, 2005, at 12:09:45
> RichardB,
> What is your relationship to the manufacturers and/or distributors of this device?
>
> gg
Gardnergirl,I appreciate your question. And yes, there is a relationship. But I've been using this thing for the past 22 years as a patient. I am writing and responding not as an authorized distributor, which I am, but as a patient who has used this on pain, strains, broken fingers, torn knee cartlidge, personal stress and anxiety on losing a parent, and ADD, which I MUST use it for.
My point was NOT that alpha-stim is the best thing since white bread! My point was that there are way too many people out there that see medication as the only answer. And, I for one DO NOT see the alpha-stim as the only answer, either.
Really.
RichardB
Posted by willyee on November 13, 2005, at 4:16:45
In reply to Re: Please provide disclosure, posted by RichardB on November 12, 2005, at 18:04:53
Well with the price range what it is,and the product presented as so succesfull,i feel its my duty having spent the money on it to present my own opinion,that is the product for ME did not work even half as well as it says in the pamhplet.
I urge anyone who is about to shell out that kind of moeny to archive the entire internet on real peoples experiance,not a site or site reprsentative.
So just as you present your opinion on how well it works,i would like to put fourth mine as well.
I also again dont claim to be the final voice,instead i recomend u search and feel the product out for experiances on the net,i.e google groups,remdiny find etc.
I was hasty and did not do this.God bless.
Posted by gardenergirl on November 13, 2005, at 23:03:42
In reply to Re: Please provide disclosure, posted by RichardB on November 12, 2005, at 18:04:53
Posted by gardenergirl on November 13, 2005, at 23:04:37
In reply to Re: Please provide disclosure, posted by willyee on November 13, 2005, at 4:16:45
I agree with you, Willyee. It's important to get balanced information when making a decision about treatment. Especially one with immediate financial considerations.
gg
Posted by Psyc 1 on November 19, 2005, at 22:45:53
In reply to Alpha-stim vs anxiety and depression, posted by RichardB on November 11, 2005, at 14:22:18
I've been using the Alpha Stim for about a month now. While I've found it to have a noticeable effect on depression and anxiety, the effect is pretty minimal. I got it on eBay for about $200. Given the degree of relief it provides, I don't think it was worth $200 let alone $500. A reasonable price might be $50.00. I agree it's very cheaply made.
Posted by rherbert on October 5, 2009, at 18:44:04
In reply to Re: Please provide disclosure, posted by willyee on November 13, 2005, at 4:16:45
This thing cured my insomnia and social anxiety at a 90% level! 10% of the fear is still there, but it feels "normal" and so manageable. I've also been through 15 years of over 100 traditional and non-traditional drugs and every kind of treatment imaginable. Even some of it at the most prestigious institutions! Georgetown, The Amen Clinic, Ross Center for Anxiety in Maryland, and on and on! Tried with some success: Nardil: (caused mania, but KILLED my anxiety)... The mania got me in big time debt! NO GOOD FOR ME, but great for most! Klonopin: kept me at a blow functional level, but helped the physical stuff a lot. EVERYTHING else: From nothing to seizures WHILE DRIVING. Yes, the Alpha-Stim LOOKS VERY SILLY! BUT, it does what it says. Mine cost $510 from the manufacturer with a one year warranty. Brand new. Who is paying $800???? It delivers the stimulation perfectly and causes an Alpha Wave state of mind as advertised. It puts you in immediate Alpha State (takes getting used to.. got nauseous for first couple days), and even if it doesn't give you the full life changing experience I got, you still get an very good chance at an hour of some peace if you have major and disabling anxiety like me. Most of the people that I know that own this guy at least get the hour of relief. Most get more like I did. Some, nothing. It's just like anything tried.... Different things work for different people. Meds and therapy weren't my thing, this was it!
Posted by julie white on November 12, 2009, at 13:47:39
In reply to Alpha-Stim working great for me..., posted by rherbert on October 5, 2009, at 18:44:04
Dear rherbert,
I have been looking into purchasing an Alpha Stim for my terrible insomnia. Obviously, the testimonials on the web site for the product are going to tout how wonderfully it works. But I am looking for real people with real problems like mine. What type of insomnia did you have? Mine is the sleep onset type; sometimes it takes till 3AM to fall asleep. Once I fall asleep, I'm usually great for the rest of the night, but most of the time I can't get there. Please respond and let me know some more details about how you use the Alpha Stim (time of day, how frequently, etc.), and how long it takes for it to start working, as well as how long you've been using it for. I have this fear, that like all sleep meds I've used, the device will eventually stop working. Thanks in advance for any advice you may have. -Julie
Posted by Deneb on November 13, 2009, at 2:12:20
In reply to Re: Alpha-Stim working great for me... » rherbert, posted by julie white on November 12, 2009, at 13:47:39
Hi Julie White
Welcome to Psycho-Babble. I don't know anything about that device, but I just wanted to welcome you to Babble. I hope someone who has experience with it can help you out.
Deneb
Posted by rherbert on November 19, 2009, at 9:36:58
In reply to Re: Alpha-Stim working great for me... » rherbert, posted by julie white on November 12, 2009, at 13:47:39
That is exactly the type of insomnia I have! It became 4AM after a while and then I NEVER woke up once I finally got to sleep until the alarm goes off or I just slept for 10 hours into the afternoon if I'm not working. I still sleep hard, once I get to sleep, even now. The Alpha Stim is very unique. One of the best parts is how when you wear it, you get a nice feeling for that period of time and it's very relaxing. I don't know how to explain this... It just kind of makes falling asleep possible when NOTHING else has for me. Sleeping pills VERY quickly became ineffective for me. Even anti-anxiety drugs don't help my sleep.
It worked for me the very first day! I use it first thing in the morning... sometimes I use it around 6 PM. It doesn't seem to matter for me when I use it. Same result at night.... asleep around 10 PM. I choose to use it for an hour. I also use the highest level. It takes a couple weeks to get to the highest level you can tolerate. Everyone has their own routine. Some people can't go all the way up. It still makes them nauseous at high levels. It's not important that the highest strength level is reached. I was just able to, and therefore, I do it that way. I have been using it since the middle of August... It's been the only thing that's worked for more than two weeks (valerian worked for 2 weeks, Sonata also, etc., etc., etc.) in my quest for a cure through herbs, teas, pills, EVERYTHING advertised for sleep and thousands spent on doctors, bedding and tests! That's my experience. I've been through it all. This was a last resort option and it works completely for me.
I have two Alpha-Stim SCS's since my wife was using one as well. Due to a lost job situation :(, we are looking to sell one and share my first one. I can sell it to you for a huge discount. It was only used for two months, we put it back in the original box and it is in perfect condition. I was planning on putting it up on eBay, but I'll wait to hear if you are interested. Let me know, and in any case, if I can offer any more information about ANY of my experiences with insomnia... feel free to contact me. I know the struggle and ALL the therapies, BOGUS and not, quite well! If I didn't answer your questions or you have more, I am happy to be more specific.
Good luck! I hope this helps.
Ryan
> Dear rherbert,
>
> I have been looking into purchasing an Alpha Stim for my terrible insomnia. Obviously, the testimonials on the web site for the product are going to tout how wonderfully it works. But I am looking for real people with real problems like mine. What type of insomnia did you have? Mine is the sleep onset type; sometimes it takes till 3AM to fall asleep. Once I fall asleep, I'm usually great for the rest of the night, but most of the time I can't get there. Please respond and let me know some more details about how you use the Alpha Stim (time of day, how frequently, etc.), and how long it takes for it to start working, as well as how long you've been using it for. I have this fear, that like all sleep meds I've used, the device will eventually stop working. Thanks in advance for any advice you may have. -Julie
>
Posted by julie white on January 18, 2010, at 16:07:29
In reply to Re: Alpha-Stim working great for me... » julie white, posted by rherbert on November 19, 2009, at 9:36:58
Ryan,
I had some major surgery right after you posted your response - that's why its taken me so long to follow up. I went ahead and purchased an Alpha-Stim right before your reply, and it is working GREAT for me, too. Initially, I only needed it for a 20 minute session, but I am finding now that setting it for an hour is best; I fall asleep during that time. A setting of somewhere between 2 and 3 seems to be perfect for me. I would recommend this device to anyone suffering from insomnia, especially sleep onset insomnia, like we have (had!!!) Anyway, I wanted to thank you for taking the time to respond to my query. Cheers to your good sleep and mine. - Julie
Posted by rherbert on January 21, 2010, at 17:15:13
In reply to Re: Alpha-Stim working great for me..., posted by julie white on January 18, 2010, at 16:07:29
I AM SO HAPPY TO HAVE HELPED! Wow! I am in my 30's and I don't think I have ever really helped someone with advice as much as I helped you.
It really is just an effort to never give up and do do diligent research. The doctors never have all the answers, and if we don't do our own research and suggest things, we will just be accepting months or years of blind faith in trial and error. Which works for MANY on the first drug they try! I am not trying to say anything negative about docs, I just know that I have had my fair share and some were completely useless and were dictators... while others were willing to work WITH ME, listen to me and finally find an answer.
Again, I am so happy for you! I still have that extra Alpha-Stim if anyone wants it.
-Ryan
> Ryan,
>
> I had some major surgery right after you posted your response - that's why its taken me so long to follow up. I went ahead and purchased an Alpha-Stim right before your reply, and it is working GREAT for me, too. Initially, I only needed it for a 20 minute session, but I am finding now that setting it for an hour is best; I fall asleep during that time. A setting of somewhere between 2 and 3 seems to be perfect for me. I would recommend this device to anyone suffering from insomnia, especially sleep onset insomnia, like we have (had!!!) Anyway, I wanted to thank you for taking the time to respond to my query. Cheers to your good sleep and mine. - Julie
Posted by rherbert on February 22, 2010, at 23:31:27
In reply to Re: Alpha-stim vs anxiety and depression, posted by willyee on November 12, 2005, at 13:26:04
Just thought I'd mention it. I have never seen one this low in price. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250585535976
Posted by Jerry Wesch on August 25, 2011, at 14:36:42
In reply to FDA ''approval'' of CES, posted by pseudoname on November 12, 2005, at 9:23:29
Cranial Electrical Stim (at least the Alpha Stim's we use) perform as advertised. Patients with PTSD use CES for sleep onset, headache, irritability and anxiety. High satisfaction and so far (>300 patients) no adverse effects. Not everybody tolerates the sessions but by and large we like it for our folks.
Posted by mogger on October 12, 2011, at 20:25:12
In reply to Re: FDA ''approval'' of CES, posted by Jerry Wesch on August 25, 2011, at 14:36:42
Is this the same sort of unit?
Joseph
This is the end of the thread.
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