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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Sunkistcat79 on January 2, 2009, at 10:57:57
After almost 2 decades of alternating between being depressed and severely depressed (I am almost 30), I cannot put up with it anymore. REally cannot.
I have been hospitalized, been in a few intensive therapies, had an indiviual therapist basically straight through since I was 11, have tried over a dozen drugs, have tried over 2 dozen alternatives (such as: exercise, journaling, acupuncture, network chirpractic, meditation...etc) have taken dozens of supplements..
And I what has been happening in my life:
-I can't keep a job for more than 4 months
-loose my friends or have them tell me if you want to hang out, i dont want to hear about your problems (and this one came from someone i met IN mental hospital!!!!)
-can't keep my relationship and as a result, no have no real home....AGAIN.I know how annoying I am to everyone I am around. If they even manage to talk to me, that's what they tell me.
Sure, there's other sh** out there i haven't tried, and i'm sure something could help me.
But SERIOIUSLY. I am in SO MUCH pain right now, I usually spend my day taking a sleeping pill and going to sleep. And then I take one again at night.
And how many months and dollars will it take to find that one thing that MAY work...and of course, it won't work rigth away. It will probably take years.
So my parents keep telling me there's something out there for me, just hang out.
Don't you think that' SELFISH of them? I am suffering EVERY MOMENT I AM AWAKE. Sure, they hurt for me too, but they have full and active lives. MY life revolves around being MORTIFIED that my phone will reveal a message from someone telling me they want me out of their life completely BETWEEN pinning my very ability to breath on getting a message from one of these people telling me something nice. Oh, and I try to read, try to watch TV, try to go online, and when that all runs out, I take a sleeping pill.THAT IS NOT A LIFE!
Yet, my parents insist I continue along this route for MORE years....experimenting, trying, suffering, until MAYBE something works.Oh, please remember.
-I am 30
-wrote my first suicide wish at the age of 10
-have one friends left from high school
-went to college for 7 years and have ONE friend left from them (a pothead alcoholic exboyfriend)
-accumulating all the time I have spent in the exact state described above.....TOO MUCHOH..... if interested, I can give more details, but OPIOIDS are the one thing that have ever helped. And they made me NORMAL, CALM, ALERT, LEVEL, AND ABLE TO FUNCTION AT MY HIGHEST LEVEL EVER.
It's not what you think. I was never an addict. I had a doctor who had be taking buprenorphine, which is NOT supposed to have a diminished effect as time goes on. But it stopped working after a month.
I'd love to talk with anyone about opioids....
I"m also thinking of ECT and LDN (naltroxene sp?).
As far as the ECT being some horrible thing, I'm past caring what happens to my body/brain. Brain damage would be welcome.
And if you do talk to me about it, PLEASE leave out the gory details getting you set up for the procedure as I am will get more terrified.thank you.
Posted by Tomatheus on January 3, 2009, at 2:42:53
In reply to new and VERY VERY VERY depressed, posted by Sunkistcat79 on January 2, 2009, at 10:57:57
Sunkistcat79,
Hello, and welcome to Psycho-Babble. I'm sorry to hear that you've been struggling for as long as you have and haven't had many successes with your treatment. I can relate, in a way, as I continue to experience some depression on a daily basis despite treatment.
Personally, I've suffered with depression for about nine years and have been diagnosed with dysthymic disorder, bipolar disorder, recurrent major depressive disorder, and currently schizoaffective disorder. I experienced full remission taking Nardil with doxylamine succinate, but I had quality-control problems with Nardil that led me to discontinue the medication. Have you tried Nardil or one of the other MAOIs (Parnate and Marplan)? If you haven't, I recommend that you try an MAOI at some point, as they tend to be useful in patients with treatment-resistant depression.
I too have tried some 60-plus supplements for my psychiatric symptoms (mostly depression, though) and failed on most of them, but I have found a few of them to be useful. I currently take l-methylfolate as part of my treatment regimen for schizoaffective disorder, and I've found that I'm spending less time in bed now that I'm on the supplement than I was before I started taking it. It's a relatively new supplement, so I thought that I'd suggest it in case you haven't tried it. I also had some success with SAMe in the past when I took it with the MAOI Parnate, but unfortunately I don't respond to SAMe nearly as well as I used to. Another supplement that I take only when my depressive symptoms get really bad is niacinamide. I build up a tolerance to niacinamide's antidepressant effects if I take it for several days in a row, but if I only take it on occasion, it can help get me out of a really nasty depressive spell. Finally, other supplements that I think have some value in treating depression include St. John's Wort (especially the Kira and Perika brands), fish oil, B vitamins (of which niacinamide is one), l-methionine, l-tryptophan, l-tyrosine, 5-HTP, and zinc. My guess is that you've probably already tried at least some of the supplements that I've suggested, but I just wanted to put them out there as options for you.
I'm really sorry to hear that you can't put up with being depressed anymore, and I wish that there were more that I could do to help you beat your depression. I know that you've probably heard this before, but I would not give up on finding the right treatment. You found something that helped you a lot before in the opioids, and the possibility that something else could help you just as much remains. Please, keep doing your best to fight this illness of yours.
Tomatheus
Posted by Jimmyboy on January 4, 2009, at 19:36:00
In reply to Re: new and VERY VERY VERY depressed » Sunkistcat79, posted by Tomatheus on January 3, 2009, at 2:42:53
Why not try Low Dose Naltrexone. You said that opiates are the only ting that have helped in the past, and LDN works by increasing beta-endorphin. Adding exercise ( to add even more endorphins) and possibly adding in buprenorphine for the kappa antagonism effects could be a good combination.
You could have hidden inflammation issues as well.
have you tried taking good quality liquid ( not caps) Omega 3 oils as well as GLA precursors ( Borage oil or Evening Primrose oil)? Omega 3 fish oil + Borage Oil + sesamin has been really good to me. This increases anti-inflammatory prostaglandins in the body thus counteracting possible inflammation issues that could be casued by numerous things. A major effect of chronic low grade inflammation is depression.
Posted by sunkistcat79 on January 5, 2009, at 9:44:41
In reply to Re: new and VERY VERY VERY depressed » Sunkistcat79, posted by Tomatheus on January 3, 2009, at 2:42:53
Hi Tomatheus,
I very much appreciated your kind note, especially the suggestions with the realization that I may have tried them before...but just in case. That was VERY validating. So often people will give me suggestions of things I have tried before as if it's the first time I've heard of it and as if their idea will be my life saver. I know they are trying to help, but most of these people know I have tried their suggestions before.
THANK YOU.
I think I may have tried MAOI's when I was younger but haven't in a long time. My only idea is that my doctors are resistant to try me on them because they are afraid I will get really depressed and go to a wine and cheese tasting.
I copied/pasted the supplements you suggested that I haven't tried (there were 3) into an e-mail to my psychiatrist. What, psychiatrist, you say? Yeah. He's about as up on alternatives as a naturopath. He's been "prescribing" buddhist meditation for me for a while.
Again, thank you for your time, suggestions, and UNDERSTANDING.
-sunkistcat79
Posted by sunkistcat79 on January 5, 2009, at 9:56:42
In reply to Re: new and VERY VERY VERY depressed, posted by Jimmyboy on January 4, 2009, at 19:36:00
Hi Jimmyboy,
LDN is one of the few choices I feel I have left and will try it.
I will run the inflammation issues by my psychiatrist (very alternative). However, my depression is mostly situational. Now that I think about it, however, I do have depression at other times but it's such a relief when the heavy/situational stuff decreases that I don't notice it as much. So inflammation could be an issue.
I have taken fish oil before but always in caps but always the highest quality available and always refrigerated.
Thank you for your suggestions.
-sunkistcat79
Posted by bleauberry on January 5, 2009, at 18:13:45
In reply to new and VERY VERY VERY depressed, posted by Sunkistcat79 on January 2, 2009, at 10:57:57
Depression doesn't just happen for no reason. Something causes it. For many people, the cause is never looked at, never cared about, and doesn't matter anyway because they find something that makes them feel better. But for other people, the cause is so overwhelming or mysterious that the common treatments don't stand a chance in the fight. The foe is too strong.
The top two foes I am aware of: 1)Mercury and/or lead toxicity. The primary source is amalgam silver fillings in the teeth, either past or present. Another strong source is the vaccinations you got as a child...they had mercury in them as a preservative. Other sources are fish or normal environmental exposure. This is a toxic world we live in. All it takes is to be around one flourscent light bulb that is cracked or broken to inhale a lot of mercury, which is the second most toxic substance on the planet to the brain.
2)Lyme disease. Maybe you remember being bitten by a tick, maybe you don't. Doesn't matter. It is worth having a detailed diagnosis by someone who knows a lot about Lyme.Both of the above are diagnosable and reversible. Symptoms can be lessened or cured, depending on how much longterm damage was done that can't be repaired.
I have no idea what your previous meds or supplements were, so it is almost impossible to make suggestions. The common supplements for depression include: St Johns Wort (Kira or Perika brand); SAMe; Rhodiola Rosea; Ginkgo biloba; B vitamins; Vitamin D3; often several or all in combination.
For meds, I wonder if they ever gave you augmentation strategies of synergy, such as Prozac+Zyprexa; Lexapro+Risperdal; any with Ritalin, etc. ???
When a whole bunch of psych meds fail, it kind of logically says there is something else going on. Thousands of people have been cured of longterm depression with things like antibiotics (hidden infectious disease), DMSA (lead and mercury), or hydrocortisone or prednisone (hidden inflammation and lab confirmed low cortisol). They reacted poorly to depression meds and did not get better on them, because they were off target from the real problem.
Tests that would be helpful to get a better picture:
Organix Urine Dysbiosis, Metrametrix Labs...to see what pathogens you might have.
Adrenal Stress Index...measures saliva cortisol four times over a 24 hour period. Tells a lot.
Food allergy testing...you could be under constant poisoning from foods you eat all the time and don't realize it.
DMSA challenge test...take low dose DMSA every 4 hours for 3 days, then a huge one-time dose followed by collecting urine for the next 6 hours. This will show how much lead and mercury you have. There should be scant to none. Keep in mind, no amount is safe. If it registers in the upper normal range or higher, you are extremely toxic and it is no wonder you have the history you do.
Thyroid...measure Antibodies, TSH, freeT3, and T4. You could be hypothyroid and don't know it. If your antibodies are high, your thyroid numbers are faulty, and you'll have to take doses of thyroid meds based on feel rather than lab reports.
ECT. I've done it. If you have a serious undiagnosed condition, such as one of the ones mentioned above, it may work briefly. It kind of resets everything, kind of like rebooting a computer. But if the original problem isn't fixed, the reboot will quickly fall prey to the computer virus again, as a symbolic example. ECT success rates are highly overexaggerated and relapse rates are high. The procedure itself is not scary. You sit in a waiting room. A nurse takes you in another room and lays you down. A needle is stuck in your arm painlessly. Next thing you know you are at home and don't remember anything happening. It takes 3 treatments per week for 2 to 4 weeks to see any improvement, if there is going to be any. Memory loss is high, but you probably wouldn't mind that. I think that in itself is actually kind of helpful, because you forget how depressed you were, and you forget the tragic times leading up to ECT. ECT worked briefly for me...2 days after 12 treatments, and then I was hospitalized for suicidal intentions.
Since you seem to have a free-wheeling doc, I would look into getting some special tests done. They paint a clearer picture than all the pure guesswork that has been done so far. In the meantime, any or all of the listed supplements are good to go.
Posted by sunkistcat79 on January 6, 2009, at 11:20:54
In reply to Re: new and VERY VERY VERY depressed, posted by bleauberry on January 5, 2009, at 18:13:45
Hi and thank you for your kind and detailed response.
What is most noticeable is your statement that the possible memory loss from ECT would be welcomed. Most people don't get that. At this point, that is the main reason I"m thinking of doing it. My memory is too intense and I have too many and too vivid memories or everything painful....and no matter how much I meditate, take drugs and exercise, they don't diminish.Unfortunatley, I have been to 3 non-allopathic type doctors and had EXTENSIVE blood work, saliva testing, urine testing, and other types of diagnostic energy work. I believe lead, mercury, lyme disease have been ruled out. Anyways, I even did a homeopathic mercury cleanse.
I have done metamatrix tests with saliva and urine for a bunch of things.
I went 100 PERCENT clean from gluten (and yes, I didn't eat at restaurants or eat any packaged food that didnt' specifically state GLUTEN FREE as I know all the hidden sources) dairy and eggs after a test showed some sensitivity to those items. However, I was still hospitalized during those times. In total, I did this for 2 years. It sucked. Especially when I was at the hospital.
The other thing I didn't mention in my initial post is that I have also recently been diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. This is, theoretically, not a biological condition. I have done the recommended treatment twice now with no results either time. I even started it up again on my own at third time - I was so committed.
As for my Thyroid, there was something way off on my Reverse T3 (I think it was called). I took a pill for that (I forget now as my brain is addled due to the depression and the pills are back where I used to live - and I am no longer there). It didn't help. The syndrome was called Wilson's Thyroid Syndrome. I had to take my temperature all the time.
I've had many combinations of psychotropic medications.
I'm sure I've been on all of those supplements as many of my supplements were combinations of items.Even though most of the things you mentioned have been unsuccessful for me, I still very much appreciate your suggestions. Maybe the further information I provided will spark a new idea from you or someone else.
thank you,
Sunkistcat79
Posted by Garnet71 on February 2, 2009, at 10:38:45
In reply to new and VERY VERY VERY depressed, posted by Sunkistcat79 on January 2, 2009, at 10:57:57
Sunkist - wow, I thought I had it bad.
Since you have had this since childhood, I think you and your doctors really need to keep this in mind with your treatment.
Bleauberry has a GREAT perspective and background on this subject. One thing she didn't mention though (did she?), is Gluten allergy/Celiac disease. Google some information on it; many people have this...your intestines don't absorb nutrients because of the allergy to wheat products. This is more progressive too; the older you get, the more ruined your intestines become. It would be totally worth it to try a Gluten-free diet for a while!!!! Or better yet, get the test first before you avoid Gluten.
My son has ADD and I started a Gluten free diet for him, and to try it for my symptoms too - went through a lot of trouble with the shopping and cooking..but he sabatoged it every other day.would order a pizza or something...so I gave up. Celiac disease is very real and can cause many psychiatric problems. In any case, it's amazing my son and I have visited many doctors - and NOT ONE had ever mentioned this possibility. There is autism, ADD, schitzophrenia in my family - my sister when she was very manic had somehow connected Gluten with my families mental health issues..lol. But really, after that, I checked into it and it could be a possibility. When I did Gluten free for 2 weeks, I felt miserable. I hear this is called carb anger, but one will get better after going through this phase. YOu still eat carbs, but has to be rice and a couple of others. Gluten-free food is expensive, although there are many things you can eat...veggies, meats. But trying to keep my son filled with food was so tough, I just gave up. It would be so much easier if I lived alone.
Hope you check back with us. Will write more later; gotta go now. Don't give up!!!!!
Posted by sunkistcat79 on February 3, 2009, at 16:37:41
In reply to Re: new and VERY VERY VERY depressed » Sunkistcat79, posted by Garnet71 on February 2, 2009, at 10:38:45
> Sunkist - wow, I thought I had it bad.
>
> Since you have had this since childhood, I think you and your doctors really need to keep this in mind with your treatment.Yeah, I agree. Although, my doctor won't even respond to my desperate and polite requests to have an appointment with him. It's been over a month and I had to start treating myself again (I know everyone will say how horrible that is...but really, when you have been through what i have, my doctors don't know cr*p, the only effects their prescriptions have had was side effects and withdrawal symptoms and if i kept waiting, i would literally die)
I did write a few sentences about how I went 100 percent, completely gluten free for 2 years. Actually, when at home, I found it very easy to stay strictly gluten free. I found many good brands (Tinkyada pasta for example) and alternatives at health food stores and found I was able to make basically anything I wanted to - at home. I may be able to give you some other suggestions.
*****I went 100 PERCENT clean from gluten (and yes, I didn't eat at restaurants or eat any packaged food that didnt' specifically state GLUTEN FREE as I know all the hidden sources) dairy and eggs after a test showed some sensitivity to those items. However, I was still hospitalized during those times. In total, I did this for 2 years. It sucked. Especially when I was at the hospital.******I've really tried it all. The only thing left is some sort of a lobotomy ....if such a thing exists. (I know about the deep brain massage thing or whatever it's called but will not go through with a procedure and wait up to 18 months and it may not even work.
I recently restarted buprenorphine and am having severe withdrawals cuz i wasn't on any other opioid prior (I was unable to get any....i REALLY tried too...)
thanks,
sunkistcat79
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