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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by cg1973 on March 20, 2008, at 0:08:32
There are cleanses for everything else on the market (colon, liver, heavy metal, parasite, etc.) so I figure it's worth asking if anyone has ever come across something that cleanses the brain. I was recently diagnosed as having something called Bipolar III and was told that due to chemical changes in the brain caused by the long term use of antidepressants. So, if this is the case, is there a way to cleanse the brain and restore the chemicals to...something that doesn't equal Bipolar?
Posted by nolvas on March 20, 2008, at 13:24:01
In reply to Is there such thing as a 'brain cleanse?', posted by cg1973 on March 20, 2008, at 0:08:32
No there's no chemical reset for the brain. There are various supplements, drugs etc that can help, but we simply don't have the knowledge to 'normalise' brain function. Biochemistry is mind bogglingly complex and certainly varies from person to person. Targeting and altering gene expression will be future treatments, so a genetic disposition to a mental illness could be treated this way. I'm afraid for now you have to do it the hard way like the rest of us and experiment and/or find a good doctor :(
Posted by bleauberry on March 21, 2008, at 17:43:34
In reply to Is there such thing as a 'brain cleanse?', posted by cg1973 on March 20, 2008, at 0:08:32
I think the best we can do is counteract the things we know/think are wrong. If the tryptophan to serotonin conversion is messed up, as some say antidepressants do, then 5htp may be needed to make up for that. The same could be said of tyrosine/dopamine, dlpa/norepinephrine, gaba/gaba. But other things are probably messed up too, such as the adrenal glands and cortisol. That means testing and treating. Unfortunately, decades later after the popularity of antidepressants took rise, I think there are more and more of us showing up that now have brains that cannot function without drugs and supplements. They have lost the genes or enzymes to do it on their own.
If the brain has been under the influence of mercury, which in my opinion is far more common than realized, then the brain cleanse you are lookinig for is alpha-lipoic acid at very low doses every 3 hours around the clock, 3 days on and 4 days off for about a year. It is detailed in the book Amalgam Illness as well as several Yahoo chelation forums. ALA is unique in that it is about the only substance on the planet that cleans heavy metals out of the brain. It has to be done right or expect worse troubles. I suspect many of us originally diagnosed with depression, anxiety, fatigue, schizophrenia, insomnia, etc actually had more mercury than our genes could handle. It came from amalgam fillings, childhood vaccinations, broken flourescent bulbs, broken thermometers, andindustrial pollution.
For all we know, we might need everything to get it all back. All the neuro precursors, a tad bit of lithium, heavy doses of minerals, heavy vitamins, good oils, etc. Some drugs have been speculated to reset receptors. A diabetes drug can reset cortisol receptors.
I suspect ECT might reset everything, but at a terrible cost, and only briefly. That was my experience with it.
Hey, if I take a mere 12.5 zoloft for a week, then stop, 2 days later I feel absolutely perfectly normal and brand new again. Then it is gone. Back to the dumps. But at least I know for sure the brain can still do it. How to manipulate to stay that way is a mystery to me.
Posted by bleauberry on March 21, 2008, at 18:13:10
In reply to Is there such thing as a 'brain cleanse?', posted by cg1973 on March 20, 2008, at 0:08:32
I forgot a couple things. Yeah, my brain obviously needs a cleanse too.
Ginkgo biloba can regrow dendrites and a bunch of other good stuff. Acetyl-l-carnitine also has brain rejuvenating actions. Fish oil and flax oil together help by restoring synaptic plasticity. Phosphatidylcholine is being used by integrative docs to restore brain functions, both orally and IV. With all of these, gains occur slowly over months. No fast cure.
As we know, receptors get sensitized and desensitized by various psychiatric drugs. They often stay that way after the drug is stopped. How to reverse that? I don't know. The drug memantine can prevent tolerance and poopout of stimulants and opioids, and even reverse tolerance and poopout after it has already set in. So maybe it might have some receptor resetting value? Dunno, but makes sense.
As I said though, I think longterm use of psychiatric drugs pretty much locks us into a lifetime of taking a cocktail of various things to make up for the shortfalls. Anti-antidepresant folks have even said that we may be addicted to antidepressants for life, not that they do anything for us, but that the brain just cannot function anymore without them.
The hard part for all of us is finding what helps. As if we haven't had enough trials and errors already.
Anyway, for natural stuff I think longterm brain cleanse stands a chance with ginkgo and l-carnitine, possibly phosphatidylcholine and/or phosphatidylserine, and good oils. But I am also fairly sure, personal opinion, that supplements and/or drugs will be needed, as will be a very detailed look at adrenal glands and thyroid glands.
And finally, one last mention. Maca root. It jumpstarts the master control of all glands simultaneously, which in turn directly affects the brain. I have no way to prove it, but I am solidly convinced the hormones control all we deal with, all that the psychiatrists try to treat. Why do I suspect this? When I was on drugs that worked, they never worked 24 hours a day. They worked in the morning, failed in the afternoon, and then worked wonderful in the evening. Every day. Like clockwork. Then my cortisol test...low normal morning, far below normal afternoon, high normal evening. It all finally made sense.
Posted by g_g_g_unit on March 22, 2008, at 1:33:35
In reply to Re: Is there such thing as a 'brain cleanse?' more, posted by bleauberry on March 21, 2008, at 18:13:10
hi bleauberry, i was hoping to catch you here since this kind of relates to the earlier thread i posted about brain fog - the matter of which i'm still experiencing some difficulty with - and because, like it or not, i guess i've sorted of pegged you as a go-to-guy because you seem so highly knowledgeable & articulate & trustworthy lol and i am young and naive and willing to believe whatever X practitioner tells me. anyway i spoke to a naturopath and she's prescribed me two formulas that are intended to supposedly assist my adrenals etc. but i don't know how to feel because they are mostly herb based but i do know ginkgo biloba crops up (your mention of it sparked this train-of-thought, as well as maca which i was looking over with interest in the health shop the other day) . if i posted the ingredients here would you mind telling me your opinion because i often feel like she's just pushing stuff on me because she is obviously receiving some kind of cut tho i have already shelled out a lot on it all so it would be worth knowing whether or not i completely wasted my time. otherwise the regime you posted here seems something definitely worth looking into. i called my pdoc and confronted him about pulling me off meds cold-turkey and he's convinced that both remeron & prozac have a durable enough half-life that it wasn't an issue. i have experienced some clear-up since i last posted but still not returned to an ideal baseline. he recommended that i stop reading sites like these and take my lexapro like a good boy because everything i'm experiencing is psychosematic. anyway, thanks in advance
Posted by bleauberry on March 22, 2008, at 14:03:14
In reply to Is there such thing as a brain cleanse? 03 bleauberry, posted by g_g_g_unit on March 22, 2008, at 1:33:35
> if i posted the ingredients here would you
>mind telling me your opinion because i often >feel like she's just pushing stuff on me >because she is obviously receiving some kind of >cut tho i have already shelled out a lot on it >all so it would be worth knowing whether or not >i completely wasted my time.Definitely. Hey, I am by no means an expert on anything other than guitar. I have studied a lot of clinical studies on adrenal herbs though, so I can tell you the difference between what science says and what folklore says. I know what hundreds of people actually do for their adrenal fatigue and what works for them. I have no proof, but have seen strong clues, that practioners receive perks for pushing certain products. I have even seen pharmaceutical reps dressed with $1000 clothes visiting my naturopath and actually delaying my schedule appointment while they discussed "things" with the door closed. And a backroom filled with products all from one company. And the insistance that I have to take this brand and not some other. But no credible explanation why.
>me off meds cold-turkey and he's convinced that >both remeron & prozac have a durable enough >half-life that it wasn't an issue.
You just have to feel it out. Quitting psych drugs is always an issue. It will be different for everyone. The long halflives help but are no guarantee of anything.
>he recommended that i stop reading sites like >these and take my lexapro like a good boy >because everything i'm experiencing is >psychosematic. anyway, thanks in advance
"Doctors are down on what they are not up on."
Unless they have studied Dr bob's website, they have no idea that it is a phenomenal source of personal support, education, and guidance to where to learn more. Unless they visit Yahoo chelation forums or adrenal fatigue forums, they have no idea what real people find truly beneficial in treatment. They have no idea how many sufferings and failures can be prevented by learning from the experience of others that went the same path before you did. Doctors are very busy. Hard to keep up when so busy. I think it is good to not be obsessed with forums and to force oneself to stay away from the computer unless seeking specific information. While your doctor thinks it is all in your head, why not take a lab test and find out. I do not think it is all in your head.
As for adrenal fatigue, starting with herbs is common. Some, but few, do ok with that. The next step is adrenal cortex extract...though many will prescribe adrenal whole extract, not what you want. Lots of people do indeed find considerable benefit with adrenal cortex extract. Top names that people at Yahoo forums swear by are Isocort and Allergy Research Products. I am a rare exception that did not feel good on either of those. Forget the health food store brands and whatever brand your practioner pushes. Insist on one of the two names above because there are hundreds of documentable real sufferers that praise those two. The next step if nothing has worked is Hydrocortisone. Nearly all doctors will frown on that unless there is a strong patient-doctor relationship or unless it is one of the rare doctors who understands adrenal fatigue. It can be ordered on the net from one place I am aware of. People find considerable benefit with anything from 2.5mg once a day to 5mg 4 times a day. Never exceed 20mg a day because that can shut down the adrenals instead of giving them assist. All you want is a "physiological replacement" dose for what is missing. We're not talking the large doses used in other medical situations that have caused the negative effects that scare doctors away from learning more about. Again, they are down on what they are not up on. There are doctors who know this stuff. The Marino Center in Massachussettes, where most of the doctors also teach at Harvard Medical School, have prescribed HC for adrenal fatigue to patients who have tried other things and have had tests to rule out other things. The most popular one on the net is Wilson. Google Wilson and adrenal fatigue. You will probably frighten your practioner with your detailed expertise.
Other than that, dietary changes can make a difference and sometimes a cure. They include avoiding stimulants (caffeine) and avoiding sugars, including sugary fruits and veggies. Diets are limited to mostly meats and low starch veggies. Rest and pacing oneself is important too. Even if feeling good and energetic for a moment, purposely slow down and take it easy.
Posted by g_g_g_unit on March 22, 2008, at 17:39:50
In reply to Re: Is there such thing as a brain cleanse? 03 bleauberry, posted by bleauberry on March 22, 2008, at 14:03:14
> > if i posted the ingredients here would you
> >mind telling me your opinion because i often >feel like she's just pushing stuff on me >because she is obviously receiving some kind of >cut tho i have already shelled out a lot on it >all so it would be worth knowing whether or not >i completely wasted my time.
>
> Definitely.thanks, i appreciate that. well the first contains:
panax gingseng root, dry (siberian gingseng) 495mg
angelia polymorpha root, dry (dong quai) 495mg
poria cocos whole plant, dry (poria) 495mg
nephelium longana fruit, dry (longane) 495mg
polygala sibirica root, dry (siberian milkwort) 495mg
atractylodes macrocephala root, dry (atractylodes) 495mg
zizyphus spinosa seed, dry (chinese date) 495mg
astragalus membranaceus root, dry (astragakus) 495mg
bupleurum falcatum root, dry (bupleurum) 495mg
gardeina florida fruit, dry (gardenia) 330mg
zizyphus jujuba fruit, dry (chinese jujube) 330mg
citrus reticulata fruit peel, dry (mandarin peel) 150mg
zingiber officinale root, dry (ginger) 120mg
glycyrrhiza galbra root, dry (liquorice) 115mgdose = 3 capules twice daily
the next contains:
zizyphus spinosa seed, dry (chinjujube-chinese) 3,0g
pueraria lobata, root dry (kudzu vine) 2.0g
magnolia officinalis, bark dry (magnolia) 1.5g
passiflora incarnata, herb dry (passion flower) 1.3g
as a disclaimer i should add neither were purposely prescribed for "adrenal fatigue", more for symptoms i described and what she assumed my body had been thru after the abrupt cessation of meds, tho my adrenals did come up ..
> >me off meds cold-turkey and he's convinced that >both remeron & prozac have a durable enough >half-life that it wasn't an issue.
>
> You just have to feel it out. Quitting psych drugs is always an issue. It will be different for everyone. The long halflives help but are no guarantee of anything.
>
> >he recommended that i stop reading sites like >these and take my lexapro like a good boy >because everything i'm experiencing is >psychosematic. anyway, thanks in advance
>
> "Doctors are down on what they are not up on."
>
> Unless they have studied Dr bob's website, they have no idea that it is a phenomenal source of personal support, education, and guidance to where to learn more. Unless they visit Yahoo chelation forums or adrenal fatigue forums, they have no idea what real people find truly beneficial in treatment. They have no idea how many sufferings and failures can be prevented by learning from the experience of others that went the same path before you did. Doctors are very busy. Hard to keep up when so busy. I think it is good to not be obsessed with forums and to force oneself to stay away from the computer unless seeking specific information. While your doctor thinks it is all in your head, why not take a lab test and find out. I do not think it is all in your head.
>
> As for adrenal fatigue, starting with herbs is common. Some, but few, do ok with that. The next step is adrenal cortex extract...though many will prescribe adrenal whole extract, not what you want. Lots of people do indeed find considerable benefit with adrenal cortex extract. Top names that people at Yahoo forums swear by are Isocort and Allergy Research Products. I am a rare exception that did not feel good on either of those. Forget the health food store brands and whatever brand your practioner pushes. Insist on one of the two names above because there are hundreds of documentable real sufferers that praise those two. The next step if nothing has worked is Hydrocortisone. Nearly all doctors will frown on that unless there is a strong patient-doctor relationship or unless it is one of the rare doctors who understands adrenal fatigue. It can be ordered on the net from one place I am aware of. People find considerable benefit with anything from 2.5mg once a day to 5mg 4 times a day. Never exceed 20mg a day because that can shut down the adrenals instead of giving them assist. All you want is a "physiological replacement" dose for what is missing. We're not talking the large doses used in other medical situations that have caused the negative effects that scare doctors away from learning more about. Again, they are down on what they are not up on. There are doctors who know this stuff. The Marino Center in Massachussettes, where most of the doctors also teach at Harvard Medical School, have prescribed HC for adrenal fatigue to patients who have tried other things and have had tests to rule out other things. The most popular one on the net is Wilson. Google Wilson and adrenal fatigue. You will probably frighten your practioner with your detailed expertise.
>
> Other than that, dietary changes can make a difference and sometimes a cure. They include avoiding stimulants (caffeine) and avoiding sugars, including sugary fruits and veggies. Diets are limited to mostly meats and low starch veggies. Rest and pacing oneself is important too. Even if feeling good and energetic for a moment, purposely slow down and take it easy.
>
i guess another disclaimer is that prior to my experience with this, i did suffer from intense bouts of OCD. part of me believes that what i am experiencing falls somewhere uncertainly been withdrawal and some amplification of those effects on the part of an OCD sensibility. either way i will be meeting with a new pdoc who i've been recommended as soon as possible. i think in the meantime operate on a small (5mg) dose of lexapro just to stabilise me. otherwise, regardless of whether how i feel is 'psychosematic' or not i would like to use my time on lexapro to instate more long-term solutions. i have already made steps towards cutting out wheat and fruit, and also dramatically upping my fish intake and have found some relief from that. and pending this new pdoc is as compassionate as i'm told he is (my last was a total android), i'll definitely approach him about lab tests etc. which my other pdoc vetoed.my last question is, in the instance that 5mg of lexapro is okay and i do continue on that for a while, say a) the above herb mixtures are okay, is it possible to use them in conjunction with lexapro is that kind of self-defeating? and b) say the above herb mixtures are not okay, is it possible to use a more targeted adrenal program / experiment with items you mentioned earlier (Acetyl-l-carnitine, etc.) in conjunction with lexapro, or is that kind of self-defeating?
thanks again for your time
Posted by bleauberry on March 23, 2008, at 18:08:51
In reply to Re: Is there such thing as a brain cleanse? 03 bleauberry, posted by g_g_g_unit on March 22, 2008, at 17:39:50
Panax and siberian ginseng are hard to figure. I can show you scientific studies that show you they lowered cortisol, and some that showed they increased cortisol. Folklore says they balance cortisol. I guess it varies from person to person. Panax can sometimes be too stimulating by itself.A clinical study found the the combination of Siberian Ginseng and Astragalus did in fact balance cortisol. If it was too high, it was lowered, and vica versa.
Ginger is a decent all around herb for helping many things, but most known for treating nausea.
Licorice is the star of the show. Licorice prevents the natural degradation of what cortisol you have, thus getting the most mileage out of your cortisol.
Passionflower is similar to xanax.
Magnolia usually lowers cortisol, is calming.
Jujube is good for relaxation, antianxiety.
Dong Quai has hormonal effects, but not clearcut. It is more popular for treating menopause symptoms.
I don't think anyone knows the safety of these herbs with lexapro. I would be comfortable with the idea of 2.5mg to 5mg lexapro, especially if you really think it would tie you over to the next step.
Dr Rind. Dr Wilson. Google their names and search their websites for tons of information on adrenals and thyroid. You will be an expert in a couple hours.
Posted by g_g_g_unit on March 24, 2008, at 4:59:57
In reply to Re: Is there such thing as a brain cleanse? 03 bleauberry, posted by bleauberry on March 23, 2008, at 18:08:51
thanks a lot for that! most appreciated
This is the end of the thread.
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