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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ryanz on January 18, 2007, at 20:44:51
Read this tonight:
Posted by willyee on January 18, 2007, at 20:44:51
In reply to Phenylethylamine Emsam , posted by ryanz on January 14, 2007, at 1:52:18
> Read this tonight:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.depression.medication/browse_thread/thread/32193fe01faac4a0/de9cc7ecd5e9e018?Great link,any one able to ADD to actualy using pea ?
Posted by Jimmyboy on January 18, 2007, at 20:44:51
In reply to Re: Phenylethylamine Emsam , posted by willyee on January 14, 2007, at 6:39:47
Yes, I used PEA oral Selegiline. It came as powder and was really hard to measure out.. It definitely peps you up, but if you get too much you get very jittery and anxious... There was a pretty long thread on this on Alternative last Nov-Dec.
JB
Posted by Phillipa on January 18, 2007, at 20:44:51
In reply to PEA, posted by Jimmyboy on January 14, 2007, at 9:32:33
Oh it's nutritional? I couldn't take something that reves you up. Oh well. Love Phillipa
Posted by bulldog2 on January 18, 2007, at 20:44:51
In reply to Re: PEA » Jimmyboy, posted by Phillipa on January 14, 2007, at 11:25:41
I know pea has been used with oral selegiline 10 milligrams to give it an ad response because selegiline at 10 milligrams doesn't have ad qualities. But I'd be very cautious using pea with emsam because there could possibly be a hypertnesive crisis because pea is amphemtamine like.
Posted by aabag on January 18, 2007, at 20:44:52
In reply to Phenylethylamine Emsam , posted by ryanz on January 14, 2007, at 1:52:18
There is moderate mood-lifting effect using emsam with phenylalanine , particularly D-phenylalanine (100 mg), with 25mg B6 thrown in for good measure. Its hard to know what's what, since I like coffee so much. I suppose I could try decaf :)
Having been on EMSAM for about 8-9 months, the results have been good. However my DX has always been social-anxiety, and EMSAM hasn't put that in remission (rejection sensitivity, lack of pro-socability). FYI, at ~9 months in, EMSAM no longer causes insomnia for me like it did after bumping up to 9mg patch. Since the social anxiety persists, I'm still researching new mechanisms of action, such as the clinical trials for cycloserine in fear-extinction.
Along those lines, why hasn't a company successfully brought a targeted GABA-A anxiolytic to market? There are literally a pile of GABA-A hypnotics for eliminating insomnia. Is insomnia that much more of a money maker than anxiety?
Posted by psychobot5000 on January 18, 2007, at 20:44:52
In reply to Re: Phenylethylamine Emsam , posted by aabag on January 16, 2007, at 1:54:56
But many of the benzodiazepines, which I believe are all considered GABA-a anxiolytics, are used primarily for anxiety, and have been for forty years or so. Diazepam and all those seem to be exactly what you're asking for.
Posted by aabag on January 18, 2007, at 20:44:52
In reply to Re: Gaba-a anxiolytics » aabag, posted by psychobot5000 on January 16, 2007, at 14:06:41
Perhaps I should have been more specific what I meant by "targeted" When I wrote a targeted GABA-A compound, I meant that the anxiolytic compound would target specific GABA-A receptor subgroups.
Gaba receptors are pentameric (5 subunits), and each combination, when agnoized, has different effects. So by targeting, I mean a compound which hits specific GABA-A receptor sub-types known to have an anxiolytic effect, not those with hypnotic effects. This is exactly what many insomnia medications do, which is why they are not anxiolytic.
Posted by Phillipa on January 18, 2007, at 20:44:52
In reply to Re: Gaba-a anxiolytics, posted by aabag on January 16, 2007, at 16:43:14
I don't get it if anxiety keeps you awake and you take valium and xanax only at bedtime to sleep. How is it now anti anxiety? Should I take them during the day when the long half life of valium should cover me? Something non addictive would be best and ad's don't do it just make anxiety worse for me. Love Phillipa
Posted by psychobot5000 on January 18, 2007, at 20:44:52
In reply to Re: Gaba-a anxiolytics, posted by aabag on January 16, 2007, at 16:43:14
I see. Sounds promising, but I suppose drug companies might assume such drugs will be too abusable to be worth the risk of developing to market. Maybe that's why they aren't going there.
Posted by Declan on January 19, 2007, at 21:41:27
In reply to Re: Phenylethylamine Emsam, posted by aabag on January 16, 2007, at 1:54:56
Tianeptine has been good for this with me.
Some people have noticed the prosociable effect of it, but maybe you've tried it and it didn't suit?
There's a trial going on at a University in Sydney with cycloserine.
Posted by nolvas on January 20, 2007, at 18:23:19
In reply to Rejection Sensitivity and Prosociability » aabag, posted by Declan on January 19, 2007, at 21:41:27
The mode of action of D-Cycloserine is described below. I was looking at nmda and it's relation to phobias and I happened to notice this page.
http://www.emory.edu/EMORY_REPORT/erarchive/2002/June/erJune.24/6_24_02davis.html
Posted by nolvas on January 20, 2007, at 18:28:20
In reply to Re: Rejection Sensitivity and Prosociability, posted by nolvas on January 20, 2007, at 18:23:19
Another interesting page >
Posted by nolvas on January 21, 2007, at 3:38:24
In reply to Re: Rejection Sensitivity and Prosociability, posted by nolvas on January 20, 2007, at 18:28:20
Sorry for all the seperate posts, this is the last consecutive thread from me in this thread hopefully :)
I was looking for a relationship between serine and cycloserine and effects on NMDA. Not being a biochemist it was just a stab in the dark, well I found the following page, (glycine seems to have a similar action to cycloserine rather than serine).
http://www.modern-psychiatry.com/glycine.htm
Posted by Jimmyboy on January 23, 2007, at 14:11:13
In reply to Re: Rejection Sensitivity and Prosociability, posted by nolvas on January 21, 2007, at 3:38:24
Cool, those were interesting links, thanks
JB
Posted by guardianangel on January 26, 2007, at 10:34:28
In reply to Re: Rejection Sensitivity and Prosociability, posted by Jimmyboy on January 23, 2007, at 14:11:13
What you need is a mixed GABA agonist NMDA antagonist (which is how alcohol behaves in the CNS)
Natural solutions there would be piper mythisticum (Kava kava) and Salvia Miltiorrhza both of which suppress anxiety and panic disorder and increase sociability
Stay away from psychostimulants that non-specifically raise monoamines as Noradrenaline excess (and hence CRH release) in the brain area Locus ceruleus is at the heart of anxiety syndromes
Other "gregoriants" or prosocial nutrients (Social Performance Optimizers) I use myself are nootropic (cognition enhancing) HPA axis (hypo-thalamic pituitary adrenal) modifiers like pregnenolone 50mg, phosphatidylserine 800mg, Bacopa Monnieria extract 450mg, Centella asiatics (Gotu Kola) ext 700mg, Withania somnifera (ashwaghanda) ext 1800mg
They all conspire to upregulate the GABA-ergic systems while blunting the NA-ergic pathways, an imbalance of which (owing to copper excess) is the primary cause of paranoia
potassium citrate 10g (3.5g elemental) is also a fantastic sympathoplegic tranquillizer comparable with diazepam for socializing -it must be taken on an empty stomach and lasts about 4-5 hours
Posted by nolvas on January 27, 2007, at 18:38:35
In reply to Re: Rejection Sensitivity and Prosociability, posted by guardianangel on January 26, 2007, at 10:34:28
Just wanted to point out a couple things with regard to the abnove post >
NMDA partial agonism interestingly is the method of action with regard to cycloserine, further activation of the NMDA receptors along with CBT can help to overcome fears.
Chinese Red Sage (Salvia Miltiorrhza) also known as Danshen should not be taken along with any drug that thins the blood such as warfarin.
Potassium supplements should not exceed 15 grams per day. The Sodium to Potassium ratio is woefully wrong in the western diet. It is rare to consume too much potassium but one should be wary anyway. Processed foods also have a poor sodium to potassium ratio as well. If you think about it, life evolved from cells in the ocean which is obviously a saline solution. Each cell in our body has evolved to pump out sodium and retain potassium. Adding sodium to the diet is one of the big problems with a western diet. Try and not consume too much sodium in your diet everyday, it's not as easy as you think.
Some very interesting stuff in this thread, shows there's always hope.
This is the end of the thread.
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