![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 2 to 26 of 26. Go back in thread:
Posted by linkadge on August 27, 2005, at 10:05:28
In reply to The use of supplements, vits, minerals, posted by Glydin on August 27, 2005, at 8:00:00
I agree with you in some respects, although everything you stated about alternatives can also be exteded to conventional meds.
The safety of conventional meds is always very uncertain, and many times the dangers of them are found out after the dammage has been done.
When I was in the mental hospital, there were 4 different individuals who had grand-mals with wellbutrin.
No, not all alternatives work for everybody, but neither to all conventional meds.
I have tried a lot a lot of alternatives, but then again, I've tried a lot of conventionals.
With conventional meds, effexor, prozac, tegretol, and risperdal, were all toxic.To be honest, I've tried over 35 different conventional psychotropics, and can say that maybe only 2-3 actually made me feel any better.
On the alternative side, SJW was not good for me.Taurine, fish oil, magnesium, folic acid, and vitamin C, have helped.
So I am not trying to offend you, I'm just saying that everything you said about the natural stuff could be extened to the conventional.You can get badly hurt with the conventional just like you can with the alternatives.
Linkadge
Posted by Glydin on August 27, 2005, at 12:19:56
In reply to Re: The use of supplements, vits, minerals, posted by linkadge on August 27, 2005, at 10:05:28
> So I am not trying to offend you, I'm just saying that everything you said about the natural stuff could be extened to the conventional.
I'm not offended at all. I totally agree. Maybe I wasn't clear that I believe caution is necessary when we are using anything to alter thoughts and functioning. I wasn't intending to imply RX stuff is less dangerous. For me, RX stuff have been a good treatment, but I know it's a nightmare for others.I think I was really short sighted about my attitude toward the use of alternatives. Prehaps this isn't the case for most and most people may be much smarter than I - I don't doubt that a bit.
After going thru such a difficult time, I felt the need to urge caution for others who might be like me - but.... maybe I'm the only one.
Posted by linkadge on August 27, 2005, at 12:49:08
In reply to Re: The use of supplements, vits, minerals, posted by Glydin on August 27, 2005, at 12:19:56
I agree, I have had some bad experiences with alternatives.
Caution is definately warranted.
Linkadge
Posted by Declan on August 27, 2005, at 18:46:35
In reply to The use of supplements, vits, minerals, posted by Glydin on August 27, 2005, at 8:00:00
Hi Glydin
Do you want to talk about what the alternate thing was that messed you up?
My experience FWIW has been that the alternate things are lots more benign than pharmaceuticals, which isn't saying much, although I've had problems with alternative things as well. Sometimes, especially if you're taking lots of different things it's hard to know what's causing what.
Declan
Posted by MoparFan91 on August 27, 2005, at 20:42:56
In reply to The use of supplements, vits, minerals, posted by Glydin on August 27, 2005, at 8:00:00
Same here.
The biggest problem is spending money on supplements that didn't do anything or caused worsening of symptoms. On some of them, though, I had a bad reaction. Here's some of the following I wasted my money on:
Chromium GTF - Left me with hypoglycemia! I'm never taking that stuff again. Took up to 1,000mcg.
Vitamin C - aggravated OCD symptoms, I think. I don't take this anymore. Took up to 9g.
Vitamin D - no effect. Up to 8,000IU
5-HTP - felt nothing. Didn't help me sleep. Took up to 400mg
Ginseng - had a bad reaction to this herb. Made me agitated and wild.
Astragalus - I felt nothing with this herb.
Vitamin B6 - My body couldn't convert this to the P5P form, so it was useless.
Conjugated Linoleic Acid - Noticed nothing.
Lecithin/Choline - Caused depression.
Manganese - Caused Tourettes-Syndrome-Like Tics
L-Theanine - I felt nothing on this.
Folic Acid - May have had worsened ocd symptoms on this. Not sure, though. Also, may have reduced efficacy of my mood stabilizers!
Glycine - Didn't feel much of anything.
Omega 6 (GLA) - Worsened depression.
Calcium - was evil for depression. Made me kinda weepy, I believe.
Vitamin E - Higher doses made me edgy/irritable.
Vitamin B12 Methylcobalamin - Increased my appetite thru the roof it seemed like.
Tyrosine - made me mad as a hornet and rather irritable and edgy. Took up to 6g dailyDHEA - caused some mood changes, I believe. This also may have cut the efficacy of my Lamictal in half.
Acetyl-L-Carntine - didn't notice anything
B-Complex - Didn't notice much, I think
The only ones that help are the following. I will continue to take them from now on:
Taurine
Magnesium
Fish Oil
GABA (bonded with Niacinamide and Inositol)
P5P
Zinc
Kelp (gives me daily allowances of minerals)
Multivitamins (gives me daily allowances of vitamins)
L-Carnosine
YerbamateSupplements that helped in the past:
Ginkgo Biloba - This herb made me more mentally sharp, alert, and focused. Helped cognition. Can't take now due to interactions w/ some of my meds.
I also have a bottle of Lithium Orotate. I don't take this at all and never have taken it before, but I do have a bottle of this in my supplement cabinet.
Posted by Glydin on August 27, 2005, at 21:43:40
In reply to Re: The use of supplements, vits, minerals » Glydin, posted by Declan on August 27, 2005, at 18:46:35
> Hi Glydin
>
> Do you want to talk about what the alternate thing was that messed you up?
Hi Declan,This is probably much more info than you ever wanted for an answer to your question, but….
I have tried many things over the years for emotional problems, arthritis, hormonal concerns, general health... you name it. I did try to use alternative choices singularly so as to not muddy the waters to figure if it was of help or not. Generally, I have not tolerated any of them very well. I experienced untoward effects that have had a wide range – GI upset, headaches, generalized achiness, and emotional symptoms. Despite that history, I kept persevering, thinking the next BIG thing would be a good choice.
My “straw that broken the camel’s back” was due to an attempt to help some perimenopausal issues I was experiencing to include some very unwanted emotional findings. This product was a mix including three different proported hormone-balancing compounds – EPO, Soy, and FlaxSeed Oil. The short of the long of it was a threatened D&C for extreme bleeding and I felt pretty awful generally. Four days after stopping this mix, the bleeding stopped and things for me gradually improved.
I hold myself totally responsible. I simply did not give enough respect to the potency of the action of herbal meds – and that is what they are, IMHO. For a long time in the initial stages of trialing alternatives, I honestly went into the whole experience thinking, at WORSE, it just would not work. I never thought it could worsen things for me. Perhaps that’s really a show of my stupidity, but it’s a honest confession.
Just my opinion, but I think there is misleading "marketing" and it’s also difficult to find good guidance.
As an aside: My locality has recently had a large influx of multi level marketing companies with “Wellness Parties” where A LOT of very appealing claims are made and a lot of money is being made. This was not a factor for me in my choices - that was all ME, but I am bothered by this trend.
By no means am I implying RX companies are any better in terms of how they market the myth of easy, uncomplicated paths to wellness.
I do think alternatives can be a good choice for some and I don’t know if my experience is typical. It may indeed be atypical.
Personally, I think I’m done with trying “stuff” for a while – some of this is borne out of doctor’s orders but mostly, I FINALLY felt the baseball bat my body has been trying to alert me with.
Glydin
Posted by Declan on August 28, 2005, at 11:04:36
In reply to Re: The use of supplements, vits, minerals » Declan, posted by Glydin on August 27, 2005, at 21:43:40
Yeah, it can take a while to work out what you're being batted about by.
What you did doesn't sound silly either (EPO and stuff).
Declan
Posted by Glydin on August 28, 2005, at 13:00:06
In reply to Re: The use of supplements, vits, minerals » Glydin, posted by Declan on August 28, 2005, at 11:04:36
Thanks, Declan. I'll take those kind words.
My plans with the "extras" did seem like good ideas to try at the time, things just don't always play out the way we imagine - so true in many cases. So, I'm chalking it up to living and learning what's the best course of action for me.
All the Best,
Glydin
Posted by Sarah T. on August 30, 2005, at 0:25:25
In reply to The use of supplements, vits, minerals, posted by Glydin on August 27, 2005, at 8:00:00
Hi Glydin,
I couldn't agree with you more. I've had similar experiences with alternative meds. The vast majority do either nothing or else they make me feel worse. There are a few exceptions. In the past year and a half, I have been taking Magnesium at night. That has been very helpful, especially when I'm premenstrual. I take it all month long, but I take a little more during the week or two before my period. Occasionally, right before my period, if I'm particularly cranky, I'll take a fleck or flake of vitamin B6. There is no way I could take the entire 50 mg of B6 (50 mg was the lowest strength I could find). The amount that I take is about the size of a piece of sand, and it is usually helpful at that time of the month.
I continue to take vitamin C and a multivitamin. I take nutritional yeast, but I've cut way down on that, and I'm considering dropping it completely.
Recently, I switched my fish oil formula to one that has a higher EPA to DHA ratio. I do think there is very marginal improvement in my joint pains, but I can assure you, it's nothing dramatic.
Frankly, I'm so sick of all the hype about most of these products. Every time I see one of those infomercials on fish oil, I cringe. I do think fish oil is probably healthy for us in various ways, but I have noticed absolutely no improvement in my mood whatsoever, regardless of the dosage.
Many years ago, I read several books by Adelle Davis. She advocated daily use of brewer's yeast and lecithin, among other things, so I started consuming lecithin in huge quantities. It never seemed to help me, so eventually I lowered the dose but continued to take it until about two years ago. I'm ashamed to admit that I never really knew why I was taking it. I just took it out of habit for years because Adelle Davis said to take it. Finally, two years ago, I spoke with a physician who had done some research on lecithin when she was in medical school. She told me that, according to her studies, lecithin IN SUPPLEMENT FORM provided absolutely no benefit. I stopped taking it, and I felt better. A few months ago, I tried it for a day or two, and I actually felt worse. I felt dysphoric and tense, similar to the way I feel on tyrosine.
As far as both traditional and alternative meds, I think it's best to stick with products that are tried and true. It makes me ill to think how much money I've spent on alternative remedies. I wish alternative meds were available in sample packs, like the samples that physicians give us for traditional meds. That way, we could try them for a few days, and if they didn't work out, we wouldn't have wasted yet another $30. or $40. on the latest version of snake oil.
Posted by Glydin on August 30, 2005, at 9:04:35
In reply to Re: The use of supplements, vits, minerals » Glydin, posted by Sarah T. on August 30, 2005, at 0:25:25
Hi Sarah,
Yes the money issue is something I’ve lamented over also. I recently did a “purge” of a number of things and just stared at the massive amounts of stuff I was throwing out. I have been fortunate to be able to return some products – sometimes with a bit of hassle, but could finally resolve to recoup something of my investment. Other items, well, there wasn’t an option to recoup.
I do think it’s interesting to have watched the trend. Whether it’s been to see how the size of the vit supplement area of local stores has expanded, or noting all the infomercials. The number of books on the subject seems to have risen. The multi level marketing finding isn’t really new, but there has seemed to be a boom lately in my area.
It’s very enticing and I do think its part of human nature...... Even folks who feel reasonably “good” are looking to feel better without the pitfalls of what they perceive (and is true) from the use of RX meds. The claims of “natural” treatments are appealing and here in the US, as long as there is the FDA disclaimer and it’s not deemed completely hazardous, it can be marketed with those appealing promises. I do hope some are finding this to be a good answer for them. I really do.
I think weeding out the science behind the claim may be improving somewhat. There does seem to be more, what I think, are legit studies ongoing to test the claims of some “stuff”. What I have found is sometimes those studies yield similar findings on untoward effects when studied as some of the RX stuff. Some compounds do hold promise. And, realistically speaking, a number of our RX compounds have plant based origins.
I don’t want to insult anyone’s sensibilities that is much more knowledgeable than I on this subject. My decision to forego use is based solely on my experiences.
I think I needed to vent also… probably because I really was angry with my own self.
Best to you,
Glydin
Posted by LOOPS on September 1, 2005, at 13:33:31
In reply to For: Sarah T, posted by Glydin on August 30, 2005, at 9:04:35
I'm sorry to hear nothing worked out - I similarly have a huge cupboard full of bottles, most of which I don't use.
Here is my list of experiences:
fish oil - does work for me for mood, but not enough for anxiety (high protein low-carb has improved this situation a lot)
GLA - works for pmt and eczema (not 100%), but too much and back into depression/lethargy - dosage on these EFAs is really difficult to define.
Lecithin - works for me with fish oil for sport concentration - only 1 cap. In the past too much has sent me off into depression/made eczema worse.
P5P mixed with mag taurate - excellent stuff for me whenever feeling anxious.
zinc - ditto.
5htp - works for anxiety, but only in low dosages - too much ironically makes me very depressed.
Lith orotate - works better at low (2 tabs) dosages than high for me - low = more stability, high=apathy and lethargy.
melatonin - works at 1mg as long as I'm not too hyped up.
vitamin C - sometimes seems to help, sometimes hinder, but basically stops me getting sick.
cal/mag/zinc combo - helps with sleep
sjw - low dose (600mg standardized) helps, but only if taken with lith orotate. Tends to poop out after awhile and make me apathetic. Sometimes makes me feel too 'driven' as well.
CLA - nothing.
TMG - aaarghghgh! Made me really angry, anxious and generally very dysphoric (1/2 tab - ~300mg) and couldn't relax at all.
tyrosine - more dysphoria and anger.
B vitamins - low dose good, high dose tense.
Sam-E - raging hypomania with alternating crying and laughing fits - mega pounding heart and insomnia at night.
ALC - hunger, hunger, irritability.
COQ10 - surges of energy, also tenseness.
ginkgo - worsening of bulimia, but good initially for concentration.
Siberian Ginseng high strength extract - perfect. Calm focus. Use this before sport.I'm sure there's loads more but there's a few experiences I've had.
Loops
Posted by Glydin on September 1, 2005, at 14:40:56
In reply to Hi Glydin -, posted by LOOPS on September 1, 2005, at 13:33:31
> I'm sorry to hear nothing worked out - I similarly have a huge cupboard full of bottles, most of which I don't use.
Ah well, it's just how it goes. Part of life is that pesky "learning" part, I guess. (smile)
I always like hearing from you.
I hope you're doing alright.
Posted by LOOPS on September 1, 2005, at 16:31:30
In reply to Re: Hi Loops-, posted by Glydin on September 1, 2005, at 14:40:56
> > I'm sorry to hear nothing worked out - I similarly have a huge cupboard full of bottles, most of which I don't use.
>
> Ah well, it's just how it goes. Part of life is that pesky "learning" part, I guess. (smile)
>
> I always like hearing from you.
>
> I hope you're doing alright.
Yeah I'm doing moreorless ok right now. Just started an African dance class which is a laugh and very liberating. Am also low-carbing which really helps my ED and anxiety. Soon I may turn into a stick of butter!Interestingly my acne has cleared up with my new diet. I'm still taking the fish oil + cod liver oil so they don't seem to be causing the acne - must be something else. HOwever I'm travelling tomorrow to Santiago for the week so things could get turned upside down - no-one is going to understand I must eat lots of butter and cream and only vegetables for carbs in order to keep my bulimia under control LOL!
Oh to be a 'normal' person - wouldn't it be nice? My hubby says if I was normal he would not have married me, so I guess it's not all bad being a bit weird-in-the-head.
Loops
Posted by Glydin on September 1, 2005, at 16:40:38
In reply to Re: Hi Loops-, posted by LOOPS on September 1, 2005, at 16:31:30
> Yeah I'm doing moreorless ok right now. Just started an African dance class which is a laugh and very liberating.
~~~Way great!! I need to get off my big behind and do something fun like that.
>Am also low-carbing which really helps my ED and anxiety. Soon I may turn into a stick of butter!
>~~~I do better when I cut carbs too. Due to upbringing (gotta blame it in something), it's really difficult for me and my tastebuds
> Interestingly my acne has cleared up with my new diet.
~~That's great, too.
> My hubby says if I was normal he would not have married me, so I guess it's not all bad being a bit weird-in-the-head.
~~~I don't think I would like you as much either if you weren't a bit....
Take good care,
Glydin
Posted by Sarah T. on September 2, 2005, at 0:25:50
In reply to Re: Hi Loops-, posted by LOOPS on September 1, 2005, at 16:31:30
> > > > > My hubby says if I was normal he would not have married me, so I guess it's not all bad being a bit weird-in-the-head.>> Loops
Dear Loops,
Please clone your husband.
S.
Posted by Ktemene on September 6, 2005, at 22:04:32
In reply to Hi Glydin -, posted by LOOPS on September 1, 2005, at 13:33:31
Hi Loops,
Thanks for this list of experiences with supplements. Would you mind saying what brand the Siberian Ginseng high strength extract you used was? I have tried Siberian Ginseng in my local health store's generic brand, and it seemed to have a positive effect, so I always wanted to try some high strength Siberian Ginseng at some point.
By the way, I am still using wheat germ oil which I started after you reported on your experience with it some weeks ago. And I still find wheat germ oil very helpful- it is energizing without causing anxiety. So thanks again for posting about that.
I hope you had a good week in Santiago.Ktemene
> I'm sorry to hear nothing worked out - I similarly have a huge cupboard full of bottles, most of which I don't use.
>
> Here is my list of experiences:
>
> fish oil - does work for me for mood, but not enough for anxiety (high protein low-carb has improved this situation a lot)
>
> GLA - works for pmt and eczema (not 100%), but too much and back into depression/lethargy - dosage on these EFAs is really difficult to define.
>
> Lecithin - works for me with fish oil for sport concentration - only 1 cap. In the past too much has sent me off into depression/made eczema worse.
>
> P5P mixed with mag taurate - excellent stuff for me whenever feeling anxious.
>
> zinc - ditto.
>
> 5htp - works for anxiety, but only in low dosages - too much ironically makes me very depressed.
>
> Lith orotate - works better at low (2 tabs) dosages than high for me - low = more stability, high=apathy and lethargy.
>
> melatonin - works at 1mg as long as I'm not too hyped up.
>
> vitamin C - sometimes seems to help, sometimes hinder, but basically stops me getting sick.
>
> cal/mag/zinc combo - helps with sleep
>
> sjw - low dose (600mg standardized) helps, but only if taken with lith orotate. Tends to poop out after awhile and make me apathetic. Sometimes makes me feel too 'driven' as well.
>
> CLA - nothing.
> TMG - aaarghghgh! Made me really angry, anxious and generally very dysphoric (1/2 tab - ~300mg) and couldn't relax at all.
> tyrosine - more dysphoria and anger.
> B vitamins - low dose good, high dose tense.
> Sam-E - raging hypomania with alternating crying and laughing fits - mega pounding heart and insomnia at night.
> ALC - hunger, hunger, irritability.
> COQ10 - surges of energy, also tenseness.
> ginkgo - worsening of bulimia, but good initially for concentration.
> Siberian Ginseng high strength extract - perfect. Calm focus. Use this before sport.
>
> I'm sure there's loads more but there's a few experiences I've had.
>
> Loops
Posted by LOOPS on September 7, 2005, at 8:53:55
In reply to Re: Hi Loops-, posted by Glydin on September 1, 2005, at 16:40:38
>
> > My hubby says if I was normal he would not have married me, so I guess it's not all bad being a bit weird-in-the-head.
>
> ~~~I don't think I would like you as much either if you weren't a bit....
>
>As I tell him - it takes one to know one!
L
Posted by LOOPS on September 7, 2005, at 8:57:25
In reply to Re: Hi Loops- » LOOPS, posted by Sarah T. on September 2, 2005, at 0:25:50
> Dear Loops,
>
> Please clone your husband.
>
> S.
>
>
Ok Sarah I'll ask him - I think he'll be very flattered. I warn you though he has bad allergies (always sneezing) and steals all the bed covers. Apart from that he's very sweet.L
Posted by LOOPS on September 7, 2005, at 9:35:45
In reply to Re: Hi Glydin - » LOOPS, posted by Ktemene on September 6, 2005, at 22:04:32
Hi Ktemene -
the brand I use is Imperial Elixir Siberian Ginseng Sport - which I think is a 10:1 extract. It is expensive though.
However....there is an equally good extract that you can buy in powder form to either put into caps yourself or mix with water/tea (I warn you, the taste isn't that great) which is something ridiculous like a 25:1 extract. You can get this from ancientway.com which is a supplier of Chinese herbs - it works out pretty cheap as you only need to use a bit. You buy it by the gram. Last time I ordered a packet of this powder it lasted me a whole year! Be warned though, it absorbs moisture very easily even in capsules so you have to be careful of storage (although it still works - just goes hard and gooey in the caps). I don't order this stuff now because they stopped shipping to Chile cheaply. You can buy the empty caps at this site as well, and also a capping machine (so you can look like a drug dealer cutting up powder and capping it on the living room table!).
The Imperial Elixir Siberian Ginseng I get from betterlife.com. They also do a very powerful Korean Red Ginseng which if I had the money I'd buy - it is amazing for doing packing/cleaning the house etc - anything which requires a lot of motivation. I've tried cheap versions of ginsengs and they are crap. For instance GNC's red ginseng made me very hyped up in an anxious way then completely knackered 2 hours later. A good ginseng should not do this - it should NOT make you anxious - just give a feeling of wellbeing and a sense that the body and mind is working better. It should give a balanced energy - even with the hotter ginsengs.
If you try buying the whole ginseng roots and making tea out of them (which is really good) they can have a *more* calming influence rather than an energizing one. I once gave friends at a party real ginseng tea made with these big roots and they all said it made them relaxed rather than energized.
I spent a whole year really getting into the whole ginseng/real Chinese herbs thing and to be honest I think I was pretty healthy mentally that year. Unfortunately it ends up getting quite expensive as the good quality stuff does cost a bit more. So in the end I settled on Siberian Ginseng as it was the cheapest and also most balancing of the ginsengs.
The other one I like is Schizandra for adrenal fatigue - but seeing as I don't get adrenal fatigue anymore I don't really use it. I think vitamin C with some B vitamins is just as good for this and cheaper.
Oooh that was one humungous waffle!
Loops
Posted by teejay on September 7, 2005, at 18:54:09
In reply to Re: Hi Glydin -, posted by LOOPS on September 7, 2005, at 9:35:45
"Oooh that was one humungous waffle!"
Yes it was, but highly enlightening too, thanks :-)
I've used siberian ginseng before (bioforce drops) but its a while ago now so cant recall what benefits it had for me at the time. I'll stick it back on my shopping list and give it another whirl.
TJ
Posted by tealady on September 9, 2005, at 0:08:15
In reply to Re: Hi Glydin -, posted by LOOPS on September 7, 2005, at 9:35:45
HI Loops,
Good to "hear" your posts again:-)
I try to keep up with reading sometimes.I think I saw you post (or maybe it was someone else, sigh ..bad memory) on the thyroid forum. I'm not posting there much any more as its IMO not a real great place to be anymore. IMO Its really gone down hill, sad, but I guess change happens....now I just wish I could edit out any mention I made to the thyroid forum in previous posts, sigh.
<If you try buying the whole ginseng roots and making tea out of them (which is really good) they can have a *more* calming influence rather than an energizing one>
That's how I loved taking it too! the wholeginseng roots as a tea
small world :-)
It used to take Siberian Gingseng for a few years. I really liked it. That was quite a few years ago though.
I still have them empty bottle here as it contains empty caps(from emptying the powder out to make tea. I still use them when I want to take something and need a cap to put it in.The bottle says "Natural Siberian ginseng, 520g eleutherococcus senticossus 100 capsules..and on the side it mentions how "the contents of the capsules may be emptied and used as a tea"..which is how I used to like taking it too.
Solgar in Oz only have the extracts of herbs now. I think you can get a mix of full herb and extract in the Uk..when I last looked it up or in the US, which personally I think gives more balance than just the extract.
Years ago over here in Oz, it was available as the whole ground root. I like that one and felt it helped more than probably anything else I tried when I wasn't on thyroid meds...if had to finger one thing.
Although maybe P5P B6, and zinc (with some magnesium for balance), or Zinc with VitC lozenges (also not available any more) would be close...I think I stopped when I couldn't buy it any more.
I'll look at the product you mention. Thanks.
Maybe I can get some on my next order.Jan
Posted by LOOPS on September 9, 2005, at 9:53:19
In reply to Re: Hi Glydin - » LOOPS, posted by tealady on September 9, 2005, at 0:08:15
Hi -
interesting - I have exactly the same things on my list of really useful supps:
zinc, chewable vitamin C, P5P, magnesium.
I read somewhere that most (?) B6 gets destroyed through cooking/freezing meat. I wonder how true this is - it might explain why this vitamin is so widely deficient in people.
So I really try to up my dosages of these things through food if I can. As I am low-carbing I can't exactly stuff myself with bananas for B6, so I came up with this list:
B6 - eggs, rare meat (I'm not quite at the stage of roaring loudly and tearing apart raw flesh with my teeth lol), lightly cooked salmon. Um, broccoli, spinach, asparagus.
Magnesium - broccoli again - have you seen the nutritional profile for broccoli on nutritiondata.com??? It is quite amazing. Other veggies - especially, once more, the leafy greens not surprisingly.
Vit C - lemon juice, red peppers, berries (plus all other veggies).
zinc- red meat esp., although also salmon and most animal protein.
And finally - my intake of animal vitamin A has gone up rather suddenly due to the amount of cream and butter I'm eating + cod liver oil. I'm not worried though - finally the acne has cleared for the first time in years and I feel well - well, better anyway.
I don't think I've ever posted in the thyroid section - maybe I did by accident! So is there a bad vibe over there or what?
However eczema doesn't seem to like eggs or cheese much, despite taking probably too much fish oil.
Hmm - I'll have to check out the whole siberian ginseng again - I got put off because I ordered some bulk powder and it tasted really sawdusty and didn't have any smell, and didn't do anything - I must have bought filler!
I see it is possible to buy Rhodiola roots to make as a tea as well albeit rather expensive. I wonder if that effect is very different too from the extract pills.
I drink tons of 'weak' yerba mate - i.e. I don't put 100g of yerba mate per mug like the Argentinians (which is traditional) - I put a good rounded coffee spoon though. I love this stuff - you get lots of minerals and B vitmamins. People say it's stimulating but I never felt that - it has even helped me sleep at night (mind you it is weak). I will miss it if we move away from here as it is really cheap, but expensive in other countries.
Loops
Posted by tealady on September 11, 2005, at 5:33:49
In reply to Re: Hi Glydin -, posted by LOOPS on September 9, 2005, at 9:53:19
> Hi -
>
> interesting - I have exactly the same things on my list of really useful supps:
>
> zinc, chewable vitamin C, P5P, magnesium.
>
> I read somewhere that most (?) B6 gets destroyed through cooking/freezing meat. I wonder how true this is - it might explain why this vitamin is so widely deficient in people.
>
it's also needed in a lot of hormone/ neurotransmitter pathways ,especially in the brain I think, can't remember exact details :-), and females over 40 don't tend to absorb it well from the gut I've heard> So I really try to up my dosages of these things through food if I can. As I am low-carbing I can't exactly stuff myself with bananas for B6, so I came up with this list:
>
I always eat bananas.I did try low carb for years, but I never felt really rwell on it..way better with more carbs as well..especially fruit and veges. I've always been a big red meat eater.> B6 - eggs, rare meat (I'm not quite at the stage of roaring loudly and tearing apart raw flesh with my teeth lol), lightly cooked salmon. Um, broccoli, spinach, asparagus.
>love broccoli too ! :-)
> Magnesium - broccoli again - have you seen the nutritional profile for broccoli on nutritiondata.com??? It is quite amazing. Other veggies - especially, once more, the leafy greens not surprisingly.
>
> Vit C - lemon juice, red peppers, berries (plus all other veggies).
>
> zinc- red meat esp., although also salmon and most animal protein.
>
> And finally - my intake of animal vitamin A has gone up rather suddenly due to the amount of cream and butter I'm eating + cod liver oil. I'm not worried though - finally the acne has cleared for the first time in years and I feel well - well, better anyway.Much the same as me in the food line, except for some reason I hate salmon.but it IS good for you :-) I try to eat it sometimes ...
Warning about Spinach in high doses, grin..I tried eating it by grazing thru the day on baby spinach once. It caused me to go severely hypothyroid in metabolism etc...causing fatigue, severe depression and all the typical symptoms
It's known about and there's research on it...I might have posted it on here ..about nitrates ?
>
> I don't think I've ever posted in the thyroid section - maybe I did by accident! So is there a bad vibe over there or what?
>well it must have been someone else then:-)... oh boy, I have a really bad memory!
>over there bad vibes?
I guess ( and its only a guess as we are got no reply to email and no notification was given as to why or what was happenning), there is just a change in attitude by the owner?. That is certainly the impression I have come up with.A couple of months ago , the software changed and was not as user friendly with glaring red links filling up the side..and for a while not everything seemed to be working including the search..those kinda problems that you expect with an upgrade maybe.
The feedback from the forum community appeared, to me, to be totally ignored as far ..especially about something simple to change like the color of the writing down the side!But more to the point for me, I had a thread deleted and my nick was set to read only and a post edited..and the comment edited on may make it look as if I was sell something..I wasn't ..I just discussed what was in the product with links to research done by others, links that discredited the promoters of the product I think, and links as to where you could get similar from cheaper ingredients..like whey, aloe vera etc...not exactly sure as I didnt keep a copy of the post..only most of the links :-)
This gagging of members/ deletions of posts or whole threads of a few posters appeared to be escalating and new rules were posted by the forum owner(now deleted) which seemed to state that any content she didn't approve of would be deleted with no notification as it was a private forum. So noone really knows what is safe to post :-) Perhaps posting on contentious issues or putting forward differing ideas, especially posting with links in :-) ? Noone seemed to be able to query what was going on?The posts would be deleted. Posters had to sign in with new nicks, it was getting confusing for all :-)
All in all, not a supportive atmosphere at all for people already struggling with depression/ anxiety/ thyroid problems/ generally not well. It's difficult to believe it happened.http://forums.about.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?msg=3238.35&nav=messages&webtag=ab-thyroiduk#a35 also posts 37 (and 14) in that thread... maybe I have got it wrong and its all some unrealised software fault, but there's no point in deliberately visiting a stressful atmosphere:-))I hesitated to write this but what the heck!:-)..In the past I've recommended this site , so I'm just stating how I feel at present..same thing ?..especially as I can't edit my old posts :-) I'd just really hate anyone who had hypothyroid symptoms to think it was still the same and look for help there at present, based on what I've said in the past :-).
The hyperthyroid board is still excellent though(run by a different person who is active on that forum and a real expert).
Oh boy..sorry for the outburst..I've been taking tyrosine for toothache :-) tyrosine makes most people a bit aggressive, but it does work for facial pain for me ..really well!
On fish oil, one lady over there had success with DHA rich fish oil, so I might try that too. I hope to try the same brand sometime.. I definitely don't go well on normal fish oil. http://forums.about.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?msg=3238.9&nav=messages&webtag=ab-thyroiduk#a9.
> However eczema doesn't seem to like eggs or cheese much, despite taking probably too much fish oil.
>
> Hmm - I'll have to check out the whole siberian ginseng again - I got put off because I ordered some bulk powder and it tasted really sawdusty and didn't have any smell, and didn't do anything - I must have bought filler!
>
> I see it is possible to buy Rhodiola roots to make as a tea as well albeit rather expensive. I wonder if that effect is very different too from the extract pills.
>
> I drink tons of 'weak' yerba mate - i.e. I don't put 100g of yerba mate per mug like the Argentinians (which is traditional) - I put a good rounded coffee spoon though. I love this stuff - you get lots of minerals and B vitmamins. People say it's stimulating but I never felt that - it has even helped me sleep at night (mind you it is weak). I will miss it if we move away from here as it is really cheap, but expensive in other countries.I've never tried yerba mate. I want to try Maca sometime too. I know I can get it here in Oz now.
>
> Loops
Posted by Ktemene on September 14, 2005, at 5:46:06
In reply to Re: Hi Glydin -, posted by LOOPS on September 7, 2005, at 9:35:45
You are a treasure, Loops! Thanks so much for the detailed information and for sharing your experience with these supplements.
Ktemene
> Hi Ktemene -
>
> the brand I use is Imperial Elixir Siberian Ginseng Sport - which I think is a 10:1 extract. It is expensive though.
>
> However....there is an equally good extract that you can buy in powder form to either put into caps yourself or mix with water/tea (I warn you, the taste isn't that great) which is something ridiculous like a 25:1 extract. You can get this from ancientway.com which is a supplier of Chinese herbs - it works out pretty cheap as you only need to use a bit. You buy it by the gram. Last time I ordered a packet of this powder it lasted me a whole year! Be warned though, it absorbs moisture very easily even in capsules so you have to be careful of storage (although it still works - just goes hard and gooey in the caps). I don't order this stuff now because they stopped shipping to Chile cheaply. You can buy the empty caps at this site as well, and also a capping machine (so you can look like a drug dealer cutting up powder and capping it on the living room table!).
>
> The Imperial Elixir Siberian Ginseng I get from betterlife.com. They also do a very powerful Korean Red Ginseng which if I had the money I'd buy - it is amazing for doing packing/cleaning the house etc - anything which requires a lot of motivation. I've tried cheap versions of ginsengs and they are crap. For instance GNC's red ginseng made me very hyped up in an anxious way then completely knackered 2 hours later. A good ginseng should not do this - it should NOT make you anxious - just give a feeling of wellbeing and a sense that the body and mind is working better. It should give a balanced energy - even with the hotter ginsengs.
>
> If you try buying the whole ginseng roots and making tea out of them (which is really good) they can have a *more* calming influence rather than an energizing one. I once gave friends at a party real ginseng tea made with these big roots and they all said it made them relaxed rather than energized.
>
> I spent a whole year really getting into the whole ginseng/real Chinese herbs thing and to be honest I think I was pretty healthy mentally that year. Unfortunately it ends up getting quite expensive as the good quality stuff does cost a bit more. So in the end I settled on Siberian Ginseng as it was the cheapest and also most balancing of the ginsengs.
>
> The other one I like is Schizandra for adrenal fatigue - but seeing as I don't get adrenal fatigue anymore I don't really use it. I think vitamin C with some B vitamins is just as good for this and cheaper.
>
> Oooh that was one humungous waffle!
>
> Loops
Posted by LOOPS on September 15, 2005, at 19:53:30
In reply to Thanks for great info on Siberian Ginseng! » LOOPS, posted by Ktemene on September 14, 2005, at 5:46:06
you're welcome!
I am famous for my verbal diarrhea, even here in Spanish.
Hope you like ginseng - I still love the stuff. I recently got a bit zonked after doing too much tennis training on too few carbs and ginseng brought me right back to life.
By the way - not all GNC's ginseng is bad - I have a bottle of their 'Triple Ginseng' which has American, Siberian and Korean which is pretty good. Still not as smooth as Imperial Elixir's Red Korean Ginseng extract though - that one's da bomb.
Loops
This is the end of the thread.
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