![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 26. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by MoparFan91 on June 26, 2005, at 22:39:43
I'm Bipolar II Ultra-Rapid Cycling. I have OCD along with it. With all the supplements and medications I'm taking, my mood disorder is under good control, but my OCD symptoms are still there.
For the bipolar mood disorder, I'm taking.. Lamictal (200mg QID)
Taurine (3g BID)
Choline (1.8g TID)
Magnesium Glycinate (800mg TID)
Omega 3/GLA (1 TBS)To help with depression, I take...
5-htp (200mg QID)
Tyrosine (1.5g BID)
DHEA (25mg QID)
Ginkgo Biloba (120mg BID)For background anxiety, I'm using sustained-release Niacinamide at 1.5g BID
I take other augmenting nutrients as well.
My bipolar symptoms are about 80% gone on this regimen. The Taurine and Lamictal help with impulsivity, agitation, and ruminations. Choline seems to help stop hourly rapid (ultradian) mood cycling. Magnesium is relaxing and works well in conjunction with the other stuff. The amino acids and other stuff helps keep me tuned up. Overall, I feel fairly even.
My only distressing gripe now is my OCD. I have repetitive thoughts going on in my mind all the time. My mind tends to repeat the same words over and over again. When I see something or somebody or hear a song, random repetive words come into my mind. I also get into "thought loops" at times where certain thoughts stay stuck in my head and won't go away. At times, I will say the same word to myself over and over again. I get fixated on certain objects and obsess over them (like car temperature/oil gauges). I also have some compulsions. Many times, I will check stuff frequently (such as my car and my appearance in the mirror). I also will perform the same movement over and over again.
Overall, the obsessive thoughts are so distracting that I only have an attention span of about 3 minutes. It looks like ADD, but the poor attention span in my case involves repetitive thought-loops. The obsessional thinking can cause anxiety on its own sometimes. At times, the thoughts interfere with conversations.
In my experience, when I took Lexapro at 20mg (for depression), the obsessive noise and repetitive thoughts in my mind were turned way down (if not eliminated completely). I had a much longer attention span, could focus better, and had an easier time communicating with other people. I wasn't so fixated on particular things. However, the Lexapro didn't do any favors for my bipolar mood cycling. I had manic attacks when I took it. So, I had to go off of it.
I came across a study recently that used Inositol for depression and OCD. For depression, they recommended 12g. For OCD, they recommend 18g. The study concluded that the Inositol worked just as well for OCD as the SSRI's (e.g. Lexapro, Prozac, etc.). Sounds like Inositol would be a bright idea since SSRI's sent me manic.
I'm planning on ordering some Inositol in bulk from Beyond A Century. They have 300g powder el cheapo. I'm going to give Inositol a trial of 18g a day possibly divided into 3 6g doses throughout the day before meals. At that dose, each case should last me about 2 weeks. I've experimented with Inositol a few times before but never went above 3g a day. I could only find capsules in my local health food store, not the powder form.
Has anyone ever used Inositol for depression or OCD?
What were your experiences with it? Was it effective?
Any side effects at high doses?
Posted by linkadge on June 27, 2005, at 20:03:52
In reply to Inositol for OCD, posted by MoparFan91 on June 26, 2005, at 22:39:43
I would say be cautious with inositol. It is powerful, and I found that it did so many strange,weird, and wonderfull things with me.
It did help my obsessivness in some ways. It also helped my depression to a certain extent.
BUT! I found that it kind of destabalized me. It may interact with certain mood stabalizers.
I found that it did have a specific anti-anxiety effect with me.
Linkadge
Posted by MoparFan91 on June 27, 2005, at 23:35:07
In reply to Re: Inositol for OCD, posted by linkadge on June 27, 2005, at 20:03:52
> I would say be cautious with inositol. It is powerful, and I found that it did so many strange,weird, and wonderfull things with me.
>What kinds of wierd/wonderful things did it do to you?
I've never taken really high doses in the past. The only time I've experimented with it was with the 500mg capsules. I took up to 2 caps 3xday for like a short time. I can't recall what effect (if any) it had on me at those doses.
When I start on the trial of 18g/day, it will be interesting to find out the effects it will have on me.
> It did help my obsessivness in some ways. It also helped my depression to a certain extent.
>Anything that will help with my obsessive/repetitive thinking is a huge plus. The obsessions are really aggravating. I don't want to have to take an SSRI again (or add another drug). I have no insurance coverage for meds. I'm trying to go as natural as possible.
> BUT! I found that it kind of destabalized me. It may interact with certain mood stabalizers.
>As far as destabilizing me, hopefully no worries. I believe that the Lamictal, Magnesium, Taurine, Choline, and Niacinamide I take should keep everything smoothed and evened out. I take pretty high doses of the aforementioned supplements.
Do you know if it will interact in anyway with the Lamictal I'm taking?
Posted by linkadge on June 28, 2005, at 6:40:24
In reply to Re: Inositol for OCD » linkadge, posted by MoparFan91 on June 27, 2005, at 23:35:07
Some of the mood stabalizers like lithium, epival, and tegretol are thought to work via inositol depletion.
Inositol can be a mood brightener. I (and others) have found that much less than 18g can produce a significan beneficial effect.
I found it brightened my vision and my preceptions. I found it made things very colourful (lithium made colours grey). It kind of made my euphoric when I took it with celexa. It seemd to enhance the depth of my emotion. It kind of made me a little too religiously paranoid. It helped my physical anxiety. It made my hear less coarse. It made the cup half full.
Linkadge
Posted by MoparFan91 on June 28, 2005, at 11:52:52
In reply to Re: Inositol for OCD, posted by linkadge on June 28, 2005, at 6:40:24
> Some of the mood stabalizers like lithium, epival, and tegretol are thought to work via inositol depletion.
>
> Inositol can be a mood brightener. I (and others) have found that much less than 18g can produce a significan beneficial effect.
>
> I found it brightened my vision and my preceptions. I found it made things very colourful (lithium made colours grey). It kind of made my euphoric when I took it with celexa. It seemd to enhance the depth of my emotion. It kind of made me a little too religiously paranoid. It helped my physical anxiety. It made my hear less coarse. It made the cup half full.
>I definitely need my emotional range (depth) enhanced. Many times, my emotional range is kinda restrictive. I feel emotionally numb sometimes (even without meds). Many times, though, I seem to express emotion by how I talk, but I simply to feel it. Also, when I hear a emotional song or something, I feel emotions for like a second only and then they go away and I go numb. I wonder what causes this...
It sounds like, according to what you say, that inositol is a good choice to help with the emotional deadness. I wonder if inositol depletion (presumably if I have it to begin with w/o lithium, epival, tegretol) could cause a restrictive range of emotions.
>
> Linkadge
>
>
Posted by linkadge on June 28, 2005, at 16:58:55
In reply to Re: Inositol for OCD » linkadge, posted by MoparFan91 on June 28, 2005, at 11:52:52
I would definately think that inositol depletion can definately make you grey.
Linkadge
Posted by MoparFan91 on June 28, 2005, at 17:51:36
In reply to Re: Inositol for OCD, posted by linkadge on June 28, 2005, at 16:58:55
> I would definately think that inositol depletion can definately make you grey.
>
> Linkadge
>
>I really do think that I must have an inositol deficiency or something. I read somewhere that chronic caffeine comsumption can deplete inositol levels in your body. I used to drink like 8 cans of caffeinated sodas a day, so I wonder if all that caffeine contributed to the depletion in my body. I found out that some signs of inositol deficiency are high cholesterol, constipation, and some other mental problems. The last time I had my cholesterol tested, it came back at 230. I also had been having incessant problems with constipation then (even when I didn't take meds that were constipating). And, the mental problems of inositol deficiency, at least in my case, seems to show up as OCD.
I heard that Inositol has an effect on the serotonin system, like the second messenger system or something, and also sensitizes those receptors. Could you clarify that?
Posted by linkadge on June 28, 2005, at 18:49:51
In reply to Re: Inositol for OCD, posted by MoparFan91 on June 28, 2005, at 17:51:36
Yes coffee can depleat inositol.
Inositol acts as a second messenger to the acetlycholine, serotonin, and dopamine receptors.I think it is said to act as a second messenger in that its actions are initiated after the receptor is stimulated. The end target of an antidepressant is perhaps to activate regional glutamate release. I think inositol acts intermediately between receptor activation, and glutamate relase.
Inositol itself is actully an isomer of glucose. It is sweet.I used to mix it in my coffee.
Based on my reaction with it. I would certainly start with a lesser dose. Maybe two grams/day for a two weeks, and then increase. A lot of people find it effective at less than 18g.
Linakdge
Posted by MoparFan91 on June 28, 2005, at 19:19:54
In reply to Re: Inositol for OCD, posted by linkadge on June 28, 2005, at 18:49:51
> Yes coffee can depleat inositol.
>I also would drink several cups of coffee at work about everyday during my breaks (they serve free coffee in the lounge).
> Inositol acts as a second messenger to the acetlycholine, serotonin, and dopamine receptors.
>These mechanisms look rather appealing. I tend to have symptoms of underfunctioning of all three of those receptors to some extent. The OCD and (to some extent) anxiety seem to be tied to the serotonin part. The emotional deadness/grayness seems to be tied to the dopamine area. And, lastly, the mental fog which I had been having from time to time seems to be connected to the acetylcholine system.
For the acteylcholine system, I'm already taking Choline (as Choline Bitartrate), which is basically a precurser. The acetyl-carnitine, which I'm also taking, helps increase acetylcholine levels as well. For serotonin support, I'm using 200mg 5-HTP nightly (maybe increasing upwards), B6 (might add/switch to P5P), Niacinamide. Some stuff I'm taking to support dopamine is Tyrosine and possibly Omega 3.
With addition of the Inositol, the acetylcholine, dopamine, and serotonin receptors should theoretically become more sensitized. This means that receptors with the extra serotonin, dopamine, and acetylcholine being created by the 5-HTP, Choline, and Tyrosine should become more senstized by the Inositol. With this, the Inositol may have a substantial compounding effect on those receptors causing improvement in symptoms.
> I think it is said to act as a second messenger in that its actions are initiated after the receptor is stimulated. The end target of an antidepressant is perhaps to activate regional glutamate release. I think inositol acts intermediately between receptor activation, and glutamate relase.
>What effect does the Glutamate aspect have?
>
> Inositol itself is actully an isomer of glucose. It is sweet.
>I've licked inositol capsules before, and they taste pretty good. I've even poured them onto frozen fruit before. When I had tablets, I actually chewed them. They tasted ok.
> I used to mix it in my coffee.
>I wonder if I could mix it with my sodas, too.
> Based on my reaction with it. I would certainly start with a lesser dose. Maybe two grams/day for a two weeks, and then increase. A lot of people find it effective at less than 18g.
>I just bought a bottle of Solaray Inositol capsules from the local health food store. Each cap has 500mg of inositol, and there are 100 caps total. I'm going to use this bottle as a starter bottle and move onto the powder form as I titrate my dose upward. I'm starting with 2g TID. I won't be able to get the powder form until a week from now.
And another question. I notice that Energy Drinks like Red Bull, AMP, Full Throttle, and others have inositol in them (along with Taurine and lots of caffeine). How much Inositol is generally found in each bottle of the energy beverage?
>
> Linakdge
>
>
>
>
Posted by LOOPS on June 29, 2005, at 13:10:44
In reply to Re: Inositol for OCD » linkadge, posted by MoparFan91 on June 28, 2005, at 19:19:54
Hiya -
I used inositol with GABA in the past - around 500mg 3x daily with 500mg GABA. I found it make me very emotionally volatile, but helped with sleeping. I started having major mood swings after awhile on it, which totally settled after I realized from my journal it might be the inositol - so switched to lithium orotate for a few days which totally restabilized me. I'm not officially bipolar, but have many mood swings/depression/anxiety.
Right now I'm having good results with EFAs.
Loops
Posted by linkadge on June 29, 2005, at 20:31:50
In reply to Re: Inositol for OCD, posted by LOOPS on June 29, 2005, at 13:10:44
Yes, what Loops said was true of me too. I noticed it did some things, but I cannot offer you my full seal of approval on inositol because it did some funky things. I cannot fully wrap my finger around how it affeceted me overall. You will need to see for yourself.
The end target of any drug is to release glutamate. The different neurotransmitter just activate glutamate in various areas of the brain. Glutame is the brains main excitory neurotransmitter. But again, you can dampen all nerve activity by taking glutamate inhibitors such as lamortagine, magnesium, lithium, theanine etc.
Linkadge
Posted by MoparFan91 on June 30, 2005, at 1:00:15
In reply to Re: Inositol for OCD, posted by linkadge on June 29, 2005, at 20:31:50
> Yes, what Loops said was true of me too. I noticed it did some things, but I cannot offer you my full seal of approval on inositol because it did some funky things. I cannot fully wrap my finger around how it affeceted me overall. You will need to see for yourself.
>I'm heading into day 3 on Inositol. As I stated, I started with 2,000mg 3xday titrated up. I think that an effect that I'm kinda noticing is that I seem to be sleep a little better and I feel more relaxed when sleeping as well. But if the Inositol gets rid of the repetitive OCD thoughts, then that's pretty much all that counts.
> The end target of any drug is to release glutamate. The different neurotransmitter just activate glutamate in various areas of the brain. Glutame is the brains main excitory neurotransmitter. But again, you can dampen all nerve activity by taking glutamate inhibitors such as lamortagine, magnesium, lithium, theanine etc.
>This is the main reason why I take mood stabilizers like Lamictal, Taurine, Magnesium, Choline, Niacinamide. Mood stabilizers are basically inhibitory substances. They are supposed to counter the "up" effects of the excitory supplements like the Inositol, Tyrosine, Ginkgo Biloba, 5-HTP, possibly Omega3/6, etc. For example, Taurine particularly counters the 'edgy' effects of the Tyrosine. Choline presumably seems to counter the "up" effects of Inositol as well. Basically, the mood stabilizing stuff keeps everything even and smooth while the excitory stuff keeps you more tuned up.
When I take just the excitory stuff, like the aforementioned ones, by themselves, I get rather edgy, irritable, agitated, and very anxious. I can get dysphoric as well. One time, I took 300mg Wellbutrin and mixed 2,000mg of Tyrosine and 2,000mg of DL-Phenylalanine with it. I wasn't taking any mood stabilizing substance. I had the most awful anxiety, and I felt extremely tense.
>
> Linkadge
>
Posted by MoparFan91 on June 30, 2005, at 1:10:20
In reply to Re: Inositol for OCD, posted by LOOPS on June 29, 2005, at 13:10:44
> Hiya -
>
> I used inositol with GABA in the past - around 500mg 3x daily with 500mg GABA. I found it make me very emotionally volatile, but helped with sleeping. I started having major mood swings after awhile on it, which totally settled after I realized from my journal it might be the inositol - so switched to lithium orotate for a few days which totally restabilized me. I'm not officially bipolar, but have many mood swings/depression/anxiety.
>My bipolar (even unmedicated) basically looks like many mood swings throughout the day along with steady depression and sometimes anxiety moments. Those things have kinda made me doubt my bipolar diagnosis at times because I never had long periods [days/weeks/months] of hardcore mania (like the ones I hear about with psychotic delusions, grandeur, spending sprees, going "days" without sleep, climbing the walls, etc.) The more intense highs I had were only when I was on SSRI's. Otherwise, I never really had them. I get pretty bad depressions, though, but mostly the mood swings I have during the day look much like just Cyclothymia rather than full-blown bipolar.
> Right now I'm having good results with EFAs.
>What doses of those are you taking?
For me, I'm taking 1 TBS of Cod Liver Oil for Omega 3 (this has a little over 1g of EPA) and 2g of Evening Primrose Oil for GLA.
> Loops
Posted by LOOPS on June 30, 2005, at 8:09:30
In reply to Re: Inositol for OCD » linkadge, posted by MoparFan91 on June 30, 2005, at 1:00:15
Hi -
It has always seemed to me that nutrition, even supplements comes down to placing everything in balance - that's why I've always liked things like adaptogenic herbs because they to some extent seem to do that for you. I totally agree with mixing the mood-stabilizing things and the 'upper' things - this has always been a problem with me, and often used to make me think if I was getting anywhere at all, or making more of a mess! Now I think with hindsight it WAS helpful, even if it was difficult getting the desired results. I used to mix a 'brain formula' containing tyrosine and lots of B vits with things like 5htp or lithium orotate - it felt like I had to balance both sides of the seesaw.
I also noticed a good effect on sleep from inositol. I noticed it's effects for this were stronger when taken with niacinamide and vit C.
Good luck with it - I hope it's good for you!
Loops
Posted by LOOPS on June 30, 2005, at 8:18:41
In reply to Re: Inositol for OCD » LOOPS, posted by MoparFan91 on June 30, 2005, at 1:10:20
Hi -
I'm still playing around with EPA/DHA dose. I basically take 2-3g EPA, and not much DHA if I can help it. I take varying amounts of GLA as well, depending on how I feel. I find I have to keep changing this. Too much GLA in relation to omega 3 makes me depressed, but too little and I start experiencing anxiety.
I have noticed some strange things with regards to flax seed oil as well. I don't usually take this, because it sends me into a kind of mixed mood. However, combined with sufficient GLA it doesn't do this so much. And in fact, recently I have noticed when I add it in, my sleep improves - better than just on the fish oil.
I also take some liquid lecithin, and yes, cod liver oil as well (varying amounts, never really over 1000IU vitamin D).
Loops
Posted by tealady on June 30, 2005, at 19:18:30
In reply to Re: Inositol for OCD, posted by LOOPS on June 30, 2005, at 8:18:41
> Hi -
>
> I'm still playing around with EPA/DHA dose. I basically take 2-3g EPA, and not much DHA if I can help it. I take varying amounts of GLA as well, depending on how I feel. I find I have to keep changing this. Too much GLA in relation to omega 3 makes me depressed, but too little and I start experiencing anxiety.
>
> I have noticed some strange things with regards to flax seed oil as well. I don't usually take this, because it sends me into a kind of mixed mood. However, combined with sufficient GLA it doesn't do this so much. And in fact, recently I have noticed when I add it in, my sleep improves - better than just on the fish oil.
>
> I also take some liquid lecithin, and yes, cod liver oil as well (varying amounts, never really over 1000IU vitamin D).
>
> Loops
Hi Loops,
I found just 1gEPO a day suits me. and I took 1 dessertspoon ground flaxseed (the oil is supposed to go rancid too fast) on my oats in the morning if I have them. Didn't like fish oil.Just wondering do you have antibodies like antiTPO, or antimicrosomal or AntiTG or hashimotos or other antibodies at all?
It's just that afer I came here I was reading so many girls bipolar type symptoms and they seemed identical to maybe antibody type flares others think they experience (me too). So I went back to the thyroid forum and put my idea that perhaps for some of us females the antibodies give us bipolar type symptoms in the early stages, then the thyroid gradually burns out and the depression and tiredness weighs in more gradually more strongly..basically too wiped for the bipolar to give much of a high at all.
Seems, as with all my thoughts, the scientists/medical fields may now be making similar suggestions. Like many many years after bipolar perhaps there is a correlation with people diagnosed with hypothyroid/hashimotos etc...not sure and too tired to bother with any refs..its just an idea.
So just wondered if any of you girls do have ever had antibodies showing in blood tests.
The thyroid function should still be "normal" :-), its just the antibodies cause what I call hyper/hypo" surges..or others call bipolar or whatever..I get lost with all the terminology.Of course even those with antibodies can make full recoveries especially in the early stages especially if they can get away from stress etc.
Thyroids have a remarkable capacity to regrow afer the damaging antibodies have been overcome...or even after being chopped out oif tisue remains. I suspect it's part of our bodies repair system.
thing is its stopping the antibodies that's important...(way easier said than done)
Also supps/diets/exercise etc can influence how our body functions to a degree, but there's way more neuortransmitters than anyone has discovered orlittle only studies I think and the interplay/feedback is way more complicated...of course only my thoughts. So while one can say this supp ups/down regulates this or this or changes metabolism isn this way or that depnding on where you're viewing from..there is a lot of other stuff going on as well, so its not as simple?? cough, as it may seem I think.
Just some of my strange thoughtstea
Posted by LOOPS on July 1, 2005, at 11:38:48
In reply to antibodies/ bipolar » LOOPS, posted by tealady on June 30, 2005, at 19:18:30
"Just wondering do you have antibodies like antiTPO, or antimicrosomal or AntiTG or hashimotos or other antibodies at all?"
hI -
Not that I know of - but then I've never had many tests done. Interesting if it's true though. Way before I got into learning about vitamins/supplements I always was ratty/tired. But then, I had bulimia, drank a lot, smoked a fair amount and didn't pay much attention to eating properly. Mood swings first really reared their ugly heads at university, but before this I'd had a bad bout of glandular fever, not that that's any indication of anything.
Anyway my overall health has improved a lot, and that first started when I was getting into using ginseng a couple of years ago and playing lots of tennis.
Off subject. Soz.
Loops
Posted by ghuber on July 26, 2005, at 9:27:24
In reply to Re: Inositol for OCD, posted by LOOPS on June 30, 2005, at 8:09:30
I took Inositol in dosages between 9-18 grams for a total of one year after withdrawing from SSRIs. It worked fairly well... Towards the end of the year I added 1-2mg daily of L-Tyrosine which threw off my serotonin/dopamine balance and made me start to obsess (I have depression, OCD and anxiety) I decided to go back on drugs because I was bad shape... I found that upon starting SSRI's I was VERY VERY sensitive. That was almost a year ago -- I can only tolerate about a max of 3mg of celexa now, I use to be able to tolerate 30mg. My pdoc and I discussed this; our conclusion is the Inositol desensitized the serotonin receptors in my brain causing a hypersensitivity to the drug. It's been almost a year now and I am still at 3mg of Celexa... I'm investigating amino acid theropy as the Celexa does not agree with me very well.
Also, if you take a mood stabilizer like Lithium, you should not take Inositol. Lithium actually depletes Inositol in the brain, which is one of its mechanisms. It has been stated that Inositol is not good for people with Bipolar depression.
Posted by MoparFan91 on July 26, 2005, at 21:21:44
In reply to Re: Inositol for OCD, posted by ghuber on July 26, 2005, at 9:27:24
> I took Inositol in dosages between 9-18 grams for a total of one year after withdrawing from SSRIs. It worked fairly well... Towards the end of the year I added 1-2mg daily of L-Tyrosine which threw off my serotonin/dopamine balance and made me start to obsess (I have depression, OCD and anxiety) I decided to go back on drugs because I was bad shape... I found that upon starting SSRI's I was VERY VERY sensitive. That was almost a year ago -- I can only tolerate about a max of 3mg of celexa now, I use to be able to tolerate 30mg. My pdoc and I discussed this; our conclusion is the Inositol desensitized the serotonin receptors in my brain causing a hypersensitivity to the drug. It's been almost a year now and I am still at 3mg of Celexa... I'm investigating amino acid theropy as the Celexa does not agree with me very well.
>I've been taking the 18g/day of Inositol for over 2 weeks now. Overall, I'm tolerating it pretty well. It may take 3-6 weeks before I notice benefits from this.
My doctor also added some Luvox due to breakthrough depression over the last 2 weeks or so. I'm on about 100mg/day. I started on 50mg for about the first week.
I wonder how the Luvox will synergize with the Inositol.
> Also, if you take a mood stabilizer like Lithium, you should not take Inositol. Lithium actually depletes Inositol in the brain, which is one of its mechanisms. It has been stated that Inositol is not good for people with Bipolar depression.
>
>I don't take Lithium. My mood stabilizer is Lamictal (300mg).
And what happens if your brain gets depleted of Inositol? Wouldn't it worsen OCD and make your serotonin less desensitized?
I also read on Remedyfind that someone used 25g of Inositol for severe mania.
Posted by ghuber on July 27, 2005, at 17:43:11
In reply to Re: Inositol for OCD » ghuber, posted by MoparFan91 on July 26, 2005, at 21:21:44
> I've been taking the 18g/day of Inositol for over 2 weeks now. Overall, I'm tolerating it pretty well. It may take 3-6 weeks before I notice benefits from this.
Good luck!
> I wonder how the Luvox will synergize with the Inositol.
I've read about controlled studies where Inositol was given to patients who were unresponsive to an SSRI. It did not improve their condition. I'm interested in hearing what you find.
> And what happens if your brain gets depleted of Inositol? Wouldn't it worsen OCD and make your serotonin less desensitized?
I believe depletion could be a fairly common thing considering many common substances deplete Inositol levels in the brain. I think that much of the theruputic effect of Inositol is due to the fact that after a prolonged period of use, the Inositol causes the serotonin receptor site to become highly sensitive. (Thus causing the problem I experience now with hypersensitivity to SSRIs)
I would presume that a brain depleted of Inositol would see very little difference in functioning, yet a brain subjected to high dosages of Inositol may see the receptor site highly sensitive.
Of course, your experience may vary from mine.
I can tell you one thing, that is my experience trying to start Celexa after taking Inositol for a year has not been a good one.
Posted by ghuber on July 27, 2005, at 18:05:45
In reply to Inositol for OCD, posted by MoparFan91 on June 26, 2005, at 22:39:43
> My only distressing gripe now is my OCD. I have repetitive thoughts going on in my mind all the time. My mind tends to repeat the same words over and over again. When I see something or somebody or hear a song, random repetive words come into my mind. I also get into "thought loops" at times where certain thoughts stay stuck in my head and won't go away. At times, I will say the same word to myself over and over again. I get fixated on certain objects and obsess over them (like car temperature/oil gauges). I also have some compulsions. Many times, I will check stuff frequently (such as my car and my appearance in the mirror). I also will perform the same movement over and over again.
>
> Overall, the obsessive thoughts are so distracting that I only have an attention span of about 3 minutes. It looks like ADD, but the poor attention span in my case involves repetitive thought-loops. The obsessional thinking can cause anxiety on its own sometimes. At times, the thoughts interfere with conversations.After reading this text, I laughed and realized we are a lot alike. I have never been diagnozed with bipolar, but sometimes I swear I have it. The celexa I'm on right now -- Well I swear it too makes me manic. For three days last week I felt real happy, wanted to shop, and do other sh*t without thinking of the repercussions. When realized on friday night I might be hypomanic, I decided to reduce the dosage of Celexa I took, and bam, by that evening I was back to reality. I've mentioned this to my Pdoc before, but he shrugs it off and says when I have it for an entire week in a row, we will talk about it... I'm starting to think I need a new pdoc!
Songs frequently get stuck in my head as well as problems or events (typically negative) I'm dealing with. I mainly suffer from mental ruminations, but rarely any compulusions. I go over things in my head like 100x, and still I do not stop thinking about whatever it is that troubles me. I am uncapable of stopping the thoughts...
If I was you I might consider loosing the Tyrosine and see how I felt. Tyrosine increases dopamine, which is shown increase obsessions. Aside from that, I would think you would want to shift the axis balance of serotonin/dopamine in favor of serotonin. This topic is something I'm investigating right now...
Have you ever tried trytophan in place of the 5HTP? I hear it's more effective, though opinions do seem to differ about the matter.
Do you take your aminos on an empty stomach and with co-factors that help convert them more readily?
I may be doing so own testing of my own on supplements again real soon. If I do, I'll let you know what works for me.
Posted by MoparFan91 on July 29, 2005, at 20:56:00
In reply to Re: Inositol for OCD, posted by ghuber on July 27, 2005, at 18:05:45
> After reading this text, I laughed and realized we are a lot alike. I have never been diagnozed with bipolar, but sometimes I swear I have it. The celexa I'm on right now -- Well I swear it too makes me manic. For three days last week I felt real happy, wanted to shop, and do other sh*t without thinking of the repercussions. When realized on friday night I might be hypomanic, I decided to reduce the dosage of Celexa I took, and bam, by that evening I was back to reality. I've mentioned this to my Pdoc before, but he shrugs it off and says when I have it for an entire week in a row, we will talk about it... I'm starting to think I need a new pdoc!
>
> Songs frequently get stuck in my head as well as problems or events (typically negative) I'm dealing with. I mainly suffer from mental ruminations, but rarely any compulusions. I go over things in my head like 100x, and still I do not stop thinking about whatever it is that troubles me. I am uncapable of stopping the thoughts...
>This is the worst part with my depression. My mind gets stuck on bad thoughts/memories, and they won't go away. I also get paranoid a lot in depressive episodes.
> If I was you I might consider loosing the Tyrosine and see how I felt. Tyrosine increases dopamine, which is shown increase obsessions. Aside from that, I would think you would want to shift the axis balance of serotonin/dopamine in favor of serotonin. This topic is something I'm investigating right now...
>I punted the Tyrosine! It was making me too edgy and irritable. I took several grams a day in the morning. It probably interfered with my sleep too.
I'm taking 1g of Taurine at night now (was on 6g several weeks ago).
I have many symptoms of Low Serotonin which are the following:
Incessant insomnia/frequent wake-ups at night
Emotional numbness/flatness
Sense of being worn out/fatigued
Appetite disturbances (carb/sugar cravings)
Loss of interest in things enjoyed
Social anxiety and withdrawal
Emotional pain and sadness (like a vacuum sucking my mood down)
Temperature changes (cold chills)
Loss of personality
Taking things personally, negatively
Odd behaviors
Negative ruminations
Obsessive Compulsive DisorderWith this huge list of symptoms, I'm most certainly going to shift my axis towards serotonin.
> Have you ever tried trytophan in place of the 5HTP? I hear it's more effective, though opinions do seem to differ about the matter.
>I've heard of it. I haven't tried Tryptophan yet. I'll ask my doctor about it. The 5-HTP didn't seem to do much for me or help me sleep even at 400+ mg. Maybe it's not the 'level' of serotonin causing the symptoms of "Low Serotonin", but low serotonin transmission and poor regulations (hence Luvox). It's like too much serotonin is being returned to the nerves and not getting to the brain where it's needed hence starving.
A good analogy is engine oil pressure in a car. Although low oil pressure is generally caused by a very low 'oil level', the oil pressure in a car can still be low even with a full oil pan for various reasons. If low oil pressure is caused by worn crankshaft bearings, too much oil is being returned to the pan and not reaching to the top of the engine where it's needed. It's like the serotonin not reaching the brain thing.
With the analogy serotonin = engine oil, pressure = transmission/regulation.
Also, is it ok to take Tryptophan with Luvox. What is the limit of Tryptophan that you can take with an SSRI before you run into problems?
> Do you take your aminos on an empty stomach and with co-factors that help convert them more readily?
>I usually take them 30-60min. before eating.
> I may be doing so own testing of my own on supplements again real soon. If I do, I'll let you know what works for me.
>My doctor is going to have me do the urine amino acids test to see what I'm deficient in.
Posted by MoparFan91 on July 29, 2005, at 20:58:43
In reply to Re: Inositol for OCD, posted by ghuber on July 27, 2005, at 17:43:11
> I've read about controlled studies where Inositol was given to patients who were unresponsive to an SSRI. It did not improve their condition. I'm interested in hearing what you find.
>I've been responsive to SSRI's in the past for things like OCD, social anxiety, insomnia, etc. They don't help bipolar, though. Also with, SSRI's I've pretty much never had side effects from them.
Posted by MM on August 9, 2005, at 18:14:22
In reply to Re: Inositol for OCD, posted by MoparFan91 on July 29, 2005, at 20:58:43
What kind of doctor are you seeing? Is it your pdoc that helps you with the supplements/testing?
MM
Posted by John66 on December 23, 2009, at 18:53:51
In reply to Re: Inositol for OCD, posted by ghuber on July 26, 2005, at 9:27:24
> I took Inositol in dosages between 9-18 grams for a total of one year after withdrawing from SSRIs. It worked fairly well... Towards the end of the year I added 1-2mg daily of L-Tyrosine which threw off my serotonin/dopamine balance and made me start to obsess (I have depression, OCD and anxiety) I decided to go back on drugs because I was bad shape... I found that upon starting SSRI's I was VERY VERY sensitive. That was almost a year ago -- I can only tolerate about a max of 3mg of celexa now, I use to be able to tolerate 30mg. My pdoc and I discussed this; our conclusion is the Inositol desensitized the serotonin receptors in my brain causing a hypersensitivity to the drug. It's been almost a year now and I am still at 3mg of Celexa... I'm investigating amino acid theropy as the Celexa does not agree with me very well.
>
> Also, if you take a mood stabilizer like Lithium, you should not take Inositol. Lithium actually depletes Inositol in the brain, which is one of its mechanisms. It has been stated that Inositol is not good for people with Bipolar depression.
>
>ghuber, is there any chance you're still around these boards? I have a similar hypersensitivty to SSRI's now after taking 18g of Inositol for a few months.
If you're still lurking here, I'd love to know whether or not you are still hypersensitive to the SSRI's a few years later.
Thanks!
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