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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Nickengland on June 13, 2005, at 16:28:49
Hello there :-)
I'm curious as to what I can add to my prescription drugs, with the use of Nutritional/herbal/*alternative substances...
I already take Omega 3 fish oils daily and find that they help.
What is this Taurine that I've seen in some other posts? Can this help as an anti-manic/mood stabiliser for people with bipolar?
And apart from Taurine, Omega 3 and B vitamins is there anything else Alternative, that can help bipolar?
Many thanks for any replies/information on the above subjects :-)
Kind regards
Nick
Posted by linkadge on June 13, 2005, at 21:18:44
In reply to Alternative Treament for Bipolar, posted by Nickengland on June 13, 2005, at 16:28:49
Yeah, taurine is can be good for rapid cycling, and other people who respond well to anticonvulsants.
Vitamin C (in several gram doses) has been used for bipolar, but in my experience it mixes terrably with conventional mood stabalizers.
Some find theanine usefull.
Magnesium is good, it can hold back mania. Too much can make me depressed.
I find ginger is a very good one. It is calming, and has benzodiazapine like properties.I have heard of ginger being used in bipolar.
Linkadge
Posted by Nickengland on June 14, 2005, at 12:41:21
In reply to Re: Alternative Treament for Bipolar, posted by linkadge on June 13, 2005, at 21:18:44
Hello Linkadge :-)
I have just baught some Taurine today (500mg) tablets. I took one and first felt nothing then about 30mins later felt very calm indeed. Seem to be pleasent, maybe a little sedating but I can now see how this would help.
Is Taurine safe to take on a daily basis like a preventive treatment, or best left as an 'as needed' med?
Interesting what you say about vitamin C, I take 500mg a day of that.
Understand what you say about Magnesium, i've taken that a couple of times before and found it made me feel a little depressed too.
I like the idea of ginger..think i may well have to try that.
What is theanine?
Thanks very much for replying Linkadge :-)
Kind regards
Nick
Thanks very much for your suggestions
Posted by linkadge on June 14, 2005, at 16:05:15
In reply to Re: Alternative Treament for Bipolar » linkadge, posted by Nickengland on June 14, 2005, at 12:41:21
Taurine could probably be used preventitivly, I have heard of this done in alternative practice. I have found that it does work on an as needed basis too. Esp when fear is the primary emotion.
Theanine is a calming compound in gree tea. You can get it in health food stores too though.
Linkadge
Posted by LOOPS on June 15, 2005, at 12:25:18
In reply to Re: Alternative Treament for Bipolar, posted by linkadge on June 14, 2005, at 16:05:15
Hi -
there's lithium orotate as well, which many people find helpful for mood balance, although not all. I like it, but find taking it every day makes me lack motivation. HOwever my mood swings are much calmer now with high dose fish oil - however I still have the odd bad day and will use lithium orotate, which for me, does have an immediate effect in levelling me out.
It doesn't have to be expensive if you buy the generic pills (not findseneritynow brand which is very overpriced).
I have also find different blends of EFAs very useful, not just fish oil. I take lecithin and GLA, although the GLA not every day: the fish oil seems to get rid of depression for me, but sometimes I still get anxiety - which the lecithin and a good dose of GLA seems to hit right on the head.
Another thing I have found very useful for calming and indeed improving mood is P5P or coenzymated B6, taken with magnesium taurate and zinc (I have NOW brand which contains both the former two). However, some people here I think have found B6 to not be good at all.
Those are the things which have had the biggest effect on me.
Things I have tried and now would avoid are flax seed oil (makes me feel very unbalanced emotionally although for some reason makes me sleep better), a very high dose B vitamin (produces tenseness for me), too much calcium (makes me grumpy).
Things I have mixed feelings about - spirulina. Seems to work great for first few days for motivation but thereafter begins to make me anxious (despite being touted as a superfood). High dose vitamin supplements - when taken for me on a day-to-day basis make me feel wired.
But that's just me - remember I am also female and have crap pms etc - also I drink - so that may be why the GLA and B6 work so well.
Loops
Posted by Spriggy on June 15, 2005, at 12:58:48
In reply to Re: Alternative Treament for Bipolar, posted by LOOPS on June 15, 2005, at 12:25:18
Loops,
I wonder if my regime of mega B vitamins and Cod liver oil could be creating this feeling of constant anxiety/unsteadiness.It's almost hard to describe- I either totally wired and like I'm ADD or I feel floaty and "out there."
No more normal. *sigh*
Posted by LOOPS on June 16, 2005, at 10:11:40
In reply to Re: Alternative Treament for Bipolar » LOOPS, posted by Spriggy on June 15, 2005, at 12:58:48
Hi Spriggy -
how much cod liver oil are you taking? I doubt that could be the reason, unless you're taking huge amounts of vitamin D (although I don't know that much about it). I know that for some people vitamin D in excess of 1000IUs acts as an antidepressant, if they are deficient in that 'vitamin'.
I take cod liver oil as having eczema I probably need the extra animal vitamin A. HOwever the amount of vitamin D I get isn't that much - it seems to be hard to get cod liver oil with lots of Vitamin D without overdosing on vitamin A (although I think there's some research that found the vitamin D in the cod liver oil protects against any excess A damage (??)).
I have read that dosing up on Bs is most useful when one is very tired and run down/depressed. However, even though the mega B complex does make me feel wired - B1 and that coenzymated B6 do not.
Have you thought about brewer's yeast instead? I myself am not sure about this one but I do take it instead of the B complex now, and I feel fine with it. The reason I'm not sure about it, is if you look at how much B is in it, it seems very little - probably not enough to overcome a real deficiency quickly?? (compared to a B complex pill).
Have you tried the fish oil/lecithin/GLA combo? I have read GLA being used for ADD, and also lecithin, and also fish oil of course. It might be more complicated than just taking one type of EFA?
I remember one time I was still taking a B-50 complex - I used to break the tablets in half because 50mg was too much - I seem to remember doing better on 25mg - not as much anxiety.
Loops
Posted by Ed O`Flaherty on June 17, 2005, at 4:18:55
In reply to Re: Alternative Treament for Bipolar, posted by LOOPS on June 16, 2005, at 10:11:40
I think that the Pfeiffer Center in Chicago (www.hriptc.org) is worth visiting for treating bipolar,although they do admit they get better results with schizophrenia and depression.Rapid cycle bipolar patients often respond well to nutrition in my experience.
Posted by Heart4Beepers on June 30, 2005, at 19:11:26
In reply to Re: Alternative Treament for Bipolar, posted by LOOPS on June 16, 2005, at 10:11:40
Don't be confused by low listed dose of vitamin B. When it occurs naturally in a food source, such as brewer's yeast, it is recognized and utilized much better by the body.
For example, it would take pounds of rice polish to supply the amount of B1 (thiamine) that is listed in a high potency B supplement. Yet just a quarter teaspoon a day of rice polish will cure the related deficiency disease, Beriberi, while the synthetic will not. This was discovered among POWs in WWII. Similarly, it takes the whole vitamin C complex, not just the ascorbic acid portion, to cure scurvy.
Also, minerals in organic form (naturally chelated) are a natural calmative, without causing any grogginess. Examples (in order of strength), Min-Tran, Min-Chex, or Orchex from Standard Process. Plants take up minerals from the ground and turn them into utilizable forms, which allow for effectiveness at a lower intake. This is why lithium orotate is safer than the drug form. Lower amount of lithium is needed when it is chelated with orotic acid.
Posted by LOOPS on July 1, 2005, at 11:42:20
In reply to Re: Alternative Treament for Bipolar, posted by Heart4Beepers on June 30, 2005, at 19:11:26
Hi -
interesting- is it better do you think to use whole food pills like brewer's yeast and superfoods like bee pollen, spirulina etc. rather than multivitamin pills? Would this approach be more effective at improving mental/physical health, or just be enough to relieve deficiencies?
Any opinions?
Loops
Posted by Heart4Beepers on July 3, 2005, at 2:56:39
In reply to Re: Alternative Treament for Bipolar, posted by LOOPS on July 1, 2005, at 11:42:20
Most vitamin-mineral supplements are synthetics or a mixture. There are ingredients in whole foods (vs. synthetic vitamins) that tell the body that it is food vs. a foreign chemical agent or metabolic waste--now that we have the technology, we can detect that supplements derived from once-living sources have photons of light which are not found in synthetics. Synthetics are more like drugs and the liver recognizes them as such, trying to detoxify and eliminate them--hence the need for "high potency" doses of synthetics. Synthetics may not be entirely without harm as synthetic B vitamins were found to cause infertility in pigs. Synthetics, because they do not include the full complement of synergists found in whole food sources, may draw these resources from other parts of the body and cause imbalances in nutritional status after awhile. The burst of energy that some may feel when first taking high potency vitamins is often the result of the body hyping up so it can respond to a high dose of chemicals. When the liver (which gets better and better at clearing them) catches up, the initial energizing response goes away. Whole foods will contain minerals naturally chelated by their plant source as well. If they are organically grown on good soil, they will also have many necessary trace minerals. I believe it is the minerals that will turn out to be the most valuable in improving our health all- around. Look at all the new claims made for things like coral calcium and sea silver--both are rich in trace minerals which we don't get in foods grown on artificially fertilized soil. In fact, even vitamin content has gone down with genetic engineering and artificial fertilizers. You'd have to eat about 5 oranges to get the same vitamin C as one grown back in the 50's.
This is the end of the thread.
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