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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Chris O on March 26, 2005, at 16:16:16
Larry:
I've been taking 200mg of 5-HTP a day for about two weeks with fair results for my physicalized anxiety symptoms. I was just wondering: Is it safe to take 5-HTP for long periods of time? I've read in various places that it can cause liver problems, kidney stones, or possibly, EMS-like symtoms when taken over long periods of time? Just wondering what your thoughts are on this.
Thanks,
Chris
Posted by Sarah T. on March 27, 2005, at 19:47:34
In reply to Larry--It is safe to take 5-HTP long-term?, posted by Chris O on March 26, 2005, at 16:16:16
Hi Chris. Obviously, I'm not Larry, and I look forward to Larry's reply. In the meantime, I just want to say that I've been interested in 5-HTP, so I've read a bit about it in the last week or so. I found a transcript of an ABC News interview with several scientists discussing 5-HTP. One of the panelists is Richard Wurtman, a well-known scientist at MIT who has extensively researched serotonin and tryptophan. He is adamantly opposed to the use of 5-HTP. He said that it is not naturally present in our bodies and bloodstream, so it is not natural. He says that 5-HTP is made by certain cells in the brain, but immediately after it is made by those cells, it is destroyed or converted to another chemical (is that tryptophan?), so he cautions against using it in supplement form. When it is taken as a supplement, it is present in the bloodstream and distributed throughout the body, unlike 5-HTP in its natural state.
Posted by Chris O on March 27, 2005, at 23:15:13
In reply to Re: Larry--It is safe to take 5-HTP long-term? » Chris O, posted by Sarah T. on March 27, 2005, at 19:47:34
Sara:
Thanks for the tip. I just read the transcript of the ABC News thing from 1998. It doesn't take much for me to be scared, so I will probably stop using the 5-HTP until I find out more. Wurtman isn't really specific about what problems he thinks 5-HTP can cause though. I also found this quote about Wurtman on the Internet:
" The authors quote, but do not identify, Richard Wurtman as saying 5-HTP is "another accident [epidemic] waiting to happen." Wurtman is a physician whose company, Interneuron, Inc. holds the patent on Redux, a product banned by the FDA last year for causing heart defects. Redux is a serotonin generator, an effect 5-HTP has been reported to induce, raising serious questions about Wurtman’s vested interests and bias."
That's kind of interesting. It makes his comments about 5-HTP seem less...professional. Anyway, it's too bad if 5-HTP is not safe because I suspect that it could have SSRI-like effects taken in high enough doses. Just my opinion after taking it for two weeks.
Sincerely,
Chris
Posted by Sarah T. on March 28, 2005, at 0:47:37
In reply to Thanks, Sara » Sarah T., posted by Chris O on March 27, 2005, at 23:15:13
Hi Chris. I was a bit scared myself when I read that comment by Wurtman. I was definitely going to buy 5-HTP until I read that transcript. It's very interesting that he had a vested interest in Redux. I often wondered about that drug. I think it was nicknamed "Phen-Fen." It was a combination of a serotonin releaser and a stimulant that caused heart valve problems in many users. I wondered how that was different from the ssri+stimulant combinations that many doctors prescribe these days. Often, patients start on an ssri, and when the apathy sets in, doctors will rx a stimulant of some kind. The fenfluramine portion of redux was not an ssri per se. It was a serotonin releaser. I'm not sure whether that means that the combination with a stimulant would be more dangerous or not. After all, once the serotonin is there, the body doesn't know how it got there, does it? The body doesn't know whether the serotonin got there via release or via blocking the reuptake. I don't know what to make of it. I guess I shouldn't worry about it since I can't seem to tolerate anything anymore. I just don't know what I'm going to do. I get hopeful about things, and then I either read about them or try them, and end up feeling worse. My kitchen cabinet looks like a shelf at the health food store, with bottles and bottles of supplements I've tried once or twice and had to abandon for one reason or another.
As far as your stopping the 5-HTP, I don't know what to say. We could use Wurtman's argument against almost anything we take. Just about all of these meds are not naturally found in the body. It didn't sound as if you were suffering from any ill effects from the product. I guess we just have to do more research on it, and I hope Larry puts in his two cents -- or more.
Posted by Chris O on March 28, 2005, at 13:39:47
In reply to Re: Thanks, Sara » Chris O, posted by Sarah T. on March 28, 2005, at 0:47:37
Sarah:
I totally hear what you're saying regarding your kitchen cabinet. I think I have 20 supplements and 6 anti-depressant samples in mine. What a mess.
Thanks again for the feedback,
Chris
Posted by KaraS on March 28, 2005, at 23:33:36
In reply to Re: Thanks, Sara » Chris O, posted by Sarah T. on March 28, 2005, at 0:47:37
Larry has answered this question in the past. If memory serves me correctly he told me that he used to think that 5-htp was dangerous but that he no longer does. Still he thinks that trytophan is preferable because it doesn't have the systemic involvement as 5-htp does. You might get more details on this if you do a search.
K
Posted by Chris O on March 28, 2005, at 23:57:20
In reply to Re: 5htp - Sarah and Chris, posted by KaraS on March 28, 2005, at 23:33:36
Posted by Sarah T. on March 29, 2005, at 1:08:33
In reply to Thanks, Kara (nm) » KaraS, posted by Chris O on March 28, 2005, at 23:57:20
Ditto (Thanks, Kara)!
Posted by LOOPS on March 30, 2005, at 8:55:07
In reply to Re: Thanks, Kara » Chris O, posted by Sarah T. on March 29, 2005, at 1:08:33
well then I'm shafted - I've been on 5htp for a long time now, with only a few short breaks - and not a low dose either.
I know what you mean about the cupboard full of supplements. However, not only is my cupboard full of supplements, so is a very big chest I have in the spare room.
I have so many bottles it's unreal. Most are repeat orders of things that I made just before I decided to give them up (duh). It seems the only things I ever continue to take are those things which are considered food-like (like EFAs) or multi-vitamins, which aren't strong enough to give any discernible effect on mood or energy.
Maybe I should take heed from this, and stop messing with my neurochemistry. But then, I'd only be back where I started - even more depressed and anxious.
On a positive note, I do sleep more than I used to be able to, and I have enough stuff in my arsenal of supps to knock an anxiety attack right on the head. Also I eat a lot better due to knowledge of vitamins etc. and I know of possible reasons to why I'm feeling a certain way on a certain day.
Trial and error is expensive though, and I seem to be still far from finding a nice, comfy solution. Maybe I expect too much!
Loops
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 10, 2005, at 11:14:36
In reply to 5htp, posted by LOOPS on March 30, 2005, at 8:55:07
> Trial and error is expensive though, and I seem to be still far from finding a nice, comfy solution. Maybe I expect too much!
>
> LoopsIf I may comment on your situation, your expectation is a critical factor in determining satisfaction.
What brought you to have to face your intake of substances was a health problem. A problem of yours and yours alone, likely related to some kind of inherent vulnerability.
The vulnerability will remain, even if you learn to compromise or cope with it. I had a quirky old car that only I could start, but it remained a quirky old car, even when I got it to go. The vulnerability was still there.
Part of a nutritional coping strategy, or herbs, or whatever you choose, must be a cognitive readjustment. Call it aging. Call it an effect of living. Call it what you will, but being alive changes us. Expecting to go back to how you were when you were younger is capable of setting yourself up for disappointment. People in those old folks homes didn't get old in one day. They gradually changed to what they have become. Inappropriately clinging to ideas of youthful functionality can cloud your thinking and feeling reaction to how you are today.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 10, 2005, at 11:15:19
In reply to Re: 5htp - Sarah and Chris, posted by KaraS on March 28, 2005, at 23:33:36
> Larry has answered this question in the past. If memory serves me correctly he told me that he used to think that 5-htp was dangerous but that he no longer does. Still he thinks that trytophan is preferable because it doesn't have the systemic involvement as 5-htp does. You might get more details on this if you do a search.
>
> KThat's a correct summation of my thinking.
Lar
>
>
Posted by LOOPS on April 11, 2005, at 15:47:16
In reply to Re: Expectations » LOOPS, posted by Larry Hoover on April 10, 2005, at 11:14:36
> > Trial and error is expensive though, and I seem to be still far from finding a nice, comfy solution. Maybe I expect too much!
> >
> > Loops
>
> If I may comment on your situation, your expectation is a critical factor in determining satisfaction.
>
> What brought you to have to face your intake of substances was a health problem. A problem of yours and yours alone, likely related to some kind of inherent vulnerability.
>
> The vulnerability will remain, even if you learn to compromise or cope with it. I had a quirky old car that only I could start, but it remained a quirky old car, even when I got it to go. The vulnerability was still there.
>
> Part of a nutritional coping strategy, or herbs, or whatever you choose, must be a cognitive readjustment. Call it aging. Call it an effect of living. Call it what you will, but being alive changes us. Expecting to go back to how you were when you were younger is capable of setting yourself up for disappointment. People in those old folks homes didn't get old in one day. They gradually changed to what they have become. Inappropriately clinging to ideas of youthful functionality can cloud your thinking and feeling reaction to how you are today.
>
> Lar
>To be fair Larry I didn't have a great childhood and would never want to go backwards in time EVER! I also have no illusions about chances of a full recovery - I am mentally screwed up and have been for ages. HOwever I do think things can be improved, otherwise why are we all here?
My expectations are only in the management of symptoms, nothing more.
Loops
Posted by lilybug80 on August 27, 2007, at 13:27:36
In reply to Re: Expectations, posted by LOOPS on April 11, 2005, at 15:47:16
I have been on 5HTP (50 to 100 mg) and St. John's Wort (300-600) on and off for about two years. It has been a life saver. I can tell (and others can tell as well) when I take a break from it. I have not had any side effects, in fact, I have only had positive reactions.
I had taken an assortment of anti-depressants (zoloft, paxil, effexor, etc.) as well as prescriptions for anxiety and ADD. Finally, I decided to quit cold turkey (not recommended unless you have a week to recover and someone there for you emotionally). All of the previously named just left me more anxious and added rage to my list of symptoms.
While taking 5HTP and St. John's Wort, my anxiety and rage is under control, I can remember things better (the way I could when I was young), all the while - not forgetting who I am.The moment you reach that clarity after bouncing from anti-depressant to anti-depressant, is priceless.
While there are no long-term studies for the use of 5HTP, I know that it has gotten me through some really tough times that I may not have otherwise survived (with my sanity).In addition, in reply to the article mentioned with negative comments about 5HTP - since when do the ingredients in all of those anti-depressants and ADD medications (adderall) appear naturally in someone's system. I had problems and that was the answer. Most of the time, I couldn't even get an appointment to have my medication refilled. That was when I finally decided that the combination of addrall and effexor was not for me (true, I had lost 20 pounds, but I was a freak).
At least this way, you do not have to depend on someone else to say you are crazy and prescribe you whatever they see fit.
This is the end of the thread.
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