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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by tealady on November 13, 2004, at 15:01:45
Hi all,
This is an old post on selenium where I mentioned negative effects. It also has some interesting comments by Lar and a good link.
https://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030818/msgs/253275.html
One day in the past week I had feelings which I could barely cope with of wanting to like "lash out" but not knowing why or even what at.. kinda frustrated too
What seemed to be happening was making the extra choline together with DMAE from sardines and a high selenium level causes this negative " inexplicable lashing out at nothing feeling?"...
TJ helped me thru this and went through what I'd been (thanks TJ) ..this was the list of new things
new things ..
*****************
soy lecithin granules ..maybe for acetylcholine?? started 4 days ago maybe more
linseed meal (chopped up linseed(flaxseed) like a fine grit) used about pkt so far over past 2 weeks maybe less.. for omega 3 I guess
coenyzmated B complex(started about a week ago)......its got all the coenzyme forms of each B ..in case something was stopping my body from utilizing the b's these are par broken down..P5P is the B6 one..this one has them all..
***************************
and it appears it might have been brought on by my trying the soy lecithin granules (just 20ml on my rolled oats for brekkie
together with the linseed meal, nuts..including a couple of brazil nuts,6 or so almonds, macadaemias, a hazelnut, piece of banana, 3 or 4 prunes, some yoghurt, milk etc)
I've been eating canned sardines in the past few days 2..just opened 2nd tin for dinner the night b4 the really bad day when I felt like lashing out..(may have been a source of DMAE?)
and I'd taken a selenium tablet (just 25mcg selenium elemental)..but that's enough to make me feel a bit high if I take them for a few days usually..also the brazil nuts contain some selenium
TJ found this for me:
http://www.vrp.com/library/732677.html?c=1097450824936&k=/jsouth
"Although DMAE is naturally found in the human body and brain, and is very non-toxic, it still must be used with care. Precisely because DMAE is such an excellent acetylcholine-booster, it may in some people produce a syndrome of acetylcholine-excess. Acetylcholine is not only an important brain neurotransmitter, it is also the neurotransmitter used by the nerves that control muscles to contract muscles. Symptoms of DMAE/acetylcholine excess include: 1) headache; 2) tense muscles - especially jaw, neck and shoulder; 3) irritability and/or depression; 4) restlessness; and 5) insomnia. These are not toxicity symptoms; they are signs of too much acetylcholine in the brain and muscles. Simply stopping DMAE for a day or two and restarting at a lower dosage will normally eliminate these symptoms if they occur. It is best to start off with low doses of DMAE (10 to 100 mg) and wait a week before increasing the dose. There is a cumulative dose-effect that occurs in the first few days of use, so that a dose that seems innocuous on day one may, by day three or four, elicit the acetylcholine-excess syndrome. Supplemental magnesium, at a dose of 2-3 mg per pound of body weight, may serve to rapidly eliminate any symptoms of acetylcholine excess."
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I stopped the lecithin and the brazil nuts and no more selenium or sardines and hit large amounts of a mix of magnesium(citrates, oxide, sulfate)
(I'd really been craving Epsom salt baths for a few days and couldn't work out why..one day I even had 2 of them!)
I took about 1700mg (1.7g) of magnesium elemental before I got any softening(also took 2g calcium with this),...and I don't usually take more than 500 mg daily as well as 1g calcium...and I'm only a relatively small build.
The magnesium eventually helped me..but it took a lot.
I've taken quite a bit and had daily baths of Epsom salts since too.
I also can't cope with much stress and just want to vege out mainly and my memory especially my short term is extra poor..but its been poor for a while maybe.
Also for a while before that day..and also since I've been feeling
a bit confused too.........almost like a migraine with the actual headache.
Can see ok but vision seems strained and almost as though my brain is taking its time sorting out all the signals its getting and maybe getting a few messages a bit jumbled...takes time to make sense of printed words..like I misread simple words and then react negatively and then work out that I misread them!
TJ described something similar to me, so I know I'm not alone.
I'm wondering if anyone else has anything similar going on..and if they think it may be selenium? or acetylcholine/choline..like from lecithin or any other source?
JanPS. I wrote this yesterday , but thanks t Jlx and Ray for their responses.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20041108/msgs/415399.htmlhttp://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20041108/msgs/415442.html
"I wonder whether this might be something to do with it?"Methylation of selenium by both plants and animals serves to detoxify selenium by generating methylselenides"
could excess selenuim deplete the body of SAM?"
Ray
I think you might have something there.
I've bought this MSM, Glucosamine sulfate, Chrondroitin sulphate mix that I mentioned b4 and have ben taking for a couple of days and its too early to say as yet.
Still taking the coenzymated B's.
Posted by tealady on November 13, 2004, at 15:18:05
In reply to Selenium ...negative reactions anyone?, posted by tealady on November 13, 2004, at 15:01:45
Hi Ray,
"Methylation of selenium by both plants and animals serves to detoxify selenium by generating methylselenides"
could excess selenuim deplete the body of SAM?"
RayI think you might have something there.
I've bought this MSM, Glucosamine sulfate, Chrondroitin sulphate mix that I mentioned b4 and have ben taking for a couple of days and its too early to say as yet.
Still taking the coenzymated B's.On second thoughts..I was taking selenomethonine ..would this provide the methylation factors?..or maybe just not enough?
I was wondering if maybe I should just stick to brazil nuts in future though..more natural even if not calibrated.
Having a break for a while.
Feel great today.Jan
Posted by raybakes on November 14, 2004, at 16:11:20
In reply to Re: Selenium ...negative reactions anyone?..Ray, posted by tealady on November 13, 2004, at 15:18:05
> .
>
> On second thoughts..I was taking selenomethonine ..would this provide the methylation factors?..or maybe just not enough?
>
> I was wondering if maybe I should just stick to brazil nuts in future though..more natural even if not calibrated.
> Having a break for a while.
> Feel great today.
>
Good you feel great!! Not sure about selenomethonine , would hope it would support it's detoxification, but taking some methyl factors would be a safe bet. If I haven't had it for a while, it feels good, but it soon feels like I've had enough after a few days - A lot of supplements give me an 'empty brain feeling' which I'm now finding has an association with poor methylation - methyl donors, negate their bad effect.Ray
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