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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 6 to 30 of 30. Go back in thread:
Posted by KaraS on August 28, 2004, at 3:16:08
In reply to Re: Adrenal Fatigue Treatment Article - Simus » KaraS, posted by Simus on August 28, 2004, at 0:44:50
> > > The visit with the Naturopathic doctor went well. She reviewed my medical history, my meds, and all my supplements. She agreed with the adrenal fatigue based on my symptoms. And she diagnosed me as low thyroid from a previous blood test that my family doctor didn't think was abnormal. She also ordered another thyroid test panel to verify the numbers. She suspected a candida problem so I am being tested for that too. I requested a food allergy/sensitivity test just to know what to avoid to feel better.
> > >
> > I'm curious as to what your TSH level was that your previous doctor decided was ok. You said you were negative on the Hashimotos antibodies? (If not, we would have almost identical problems.)
>
> My TSH was 5.11. She said that most people feel better with a TSH around 1-2. I was never tested for Hashimoto antibodies. I just assumed I didn't have Hashimotos because my doctor didn't think my TSH was a problem.
>Your previous doctor should have his or her license revoked! The new guidelines are 3 or 3.5 for the TSH level cutoff. The old guidelines were 5. So even if he were going by the old guidelines, he should have suspected that you were heading into trouble and taken an antibody test. Is the naturopath going to get the antibody test? Not that it makes that much difference in the long run. The treatment is the same but it's still nice to know what is causing the problem. If it's Hashimotos, then I would think it's important to know that you have an autoimmune condition (which is incredibly common for women our age, by the way). I suspect that your naturopath will get you on Armour Thyroid or one of the other natural kinds (thryoid hormone derived from pigs). I wonder if you'd have trouble getting it if you're in a small city or town. Most of the mainstream doctors push the synthetics which don't have T3 in them.
There's an excellent web site on thyroid problems by Mary Shomon, a health care advocate. It's one of the about.com sites. It answers any possible question you have on the issue (assuming it's answerable).
> > Most of us probably have candida problems because of the antibiotics and lots of sugar. If so, she'll probably put you on the diet. You'll feel better and you'll lose weight. I did when I went on it a few years back.
>
> I think you are right.
>
> > I also had a food sensitivity test done then. I was really surprised at the foods I tested sensitive to: squash/zuchini/cucumber family, yogurt, strong cheeses, yeast (but not wheat) and I can't think of the rest. Wonder if the results would be the same today or if I'd have a whole different set or maybe just additional ones.
>
> Hmmm... that isn't too bad... I can give up summer squash - but I am hoping chocolate doesn't show up on my list!!! LOLThat's the spirit! So willing and able to give up summer squash! (Unfortunately chocolate is already off of your list (and mine, sigh) for the adrenal fatigue.)
> > > She liked the basic supplements I am on now. (Really good quality multi-vit, calcium/magnesium/zinc, C, quercetin, P-5-P (B6), B5, and borage oil. She wanted me to add flaxseed oil to the base supplements. She said that in the future she is going to have me add selenium and chromium too.
> >
> > How come flaxseed oil rather than fish oil? Didn't "you know who" say that the latter is better?
>
> I remember reading something at one time that said that fish oil wasn't the best option for my condition... but it was a while ago and I can't tell you for sure which condition it was referring to. I just made a little mental note about it. I think it was because of either the pyrolluria or the adrenal fatigue though...I've just recently started hearing about pyrolluria but I don't really know much about it or understand it well yet. Maybe if I don't learn about it I won't have to discover that I have it. (LOL)
> > I don't remember - do you get hypoglycemic? If not, I wonder why she wants the additional chromium.
>
> I did (do?), but I didn't talk about it with her. It could be to deter possible sugar cravings if I test positive for candida. (???)Yes, of course that's it.
> > > I told her I drink green tea, ginger tea, and ginseng tea. She told me to avoid the panax(?) ginsengs.
> >
> > Panax gingsengs are quite stimulating. Maybe that's why.
>
> Yeah, and she said that "panax is a man's herb". I assumed that she meant that it boosted testosterone.No wonder my voice has gotten lower...
(kidding of course)
>
> > > She gave me a glandular adrenal support. She is also starting me on licorice - says it is wonderful and she takes it herself. And she gave me a tincture with ashwaganda(sp?), bladderwrack, and coleus.
> >
> > I was going to ask Larry what he thought of glandulars. That'll probably make a big difference. She's also using the standard treatments we've read about in licorice and ashwaganda (I've seen it spelled that way and with an "h" at the end after the "d".) I'm thinking of adding both of those.
>
> > I've never even heard of bladderwrack (frightening name, don't you think?)
>
> Yeah. LOL It is like kelp and it supplies iodine.
>
> > or coleus. She must really know her stuff.
>
> The coleus is a new one to me too. I think it is for insomnia - not sure.
>
> > > For the insomnia she suggested taking a calcium/magnesium (without zinc) supplement in the evening. She also recommended lemon balm tea.
> >
> > Did you tell her that you're already taking a lot of magnesium?
>
> Yeah, but she suggested taking part of the daily dose in the evening.
>
> > Our book says to take them separately. I'm not sure why though.
>
> Maybe they compete to some degree...
>Last night I took 2 magnesiums (400 mg. each) at night separate from the calcium for the first time. I really do feel better today. (I took two of them because they're part magnesium oxide, the one that's not supposed to be absorbed that well.) Wonder if it's a fluke or if it's related at all.
> > Wonder if the above will be enough for you.
>
> She is definitely not out of ideas yet.
>
> > > She wanted me to start out on these changes for three weeks, and then come back in for evaluation and to review the test results. There were more things, but she tried to limit the changes to just a few. Since I have been under the weather for the past couple of days, I will probably start with only a couple of the new items tomorrow and give it a go (stomach and intestines willing).
> >
> > I'd probably start like that too and add the really new stuff in slowly so that if you're not reacting well to something, you know which one it is.
>
> Exactly.
>
> > > I sound a little self-absorbed here, huh? How have you been? How is work going?
> >
> > No you don't sound self-absorbed at all! I wanted to know exactly what she prescribed. It sounds like she's attacking the adrenal fatigue first. I wonder if she'll prescribe anything more directly for the brain fog.
>
> I am not having too much trouble with brain fog right now. But she did say that candida can cause it, and getting rid of the candida helps in brain function.
>Yeah, that's true. I ordered some stuff "Candida Cleanse" or something like that from NOW brand. I was planning on starting that and the diet at some point in the future. If I can discipline myself enough, maybe I'll do it sooner rather than later.
> > I'm doing a little better today than the last few days. Don't know why but I'm not complaining.
>
> Hey, "a little better" is at least a step in the RIGHT direction.Definitely. I think I'll also try to find a good uplifting book to lose myself in also. Something that will inspire, yet get me out of myself for a while.
> > Nothing new with work. I almost had an interview this afternoon but it got cancelled because they really liked the person they met with this morning.
>
> Sheesh. Sorry to hear that. I hope I am up to going back to work soon too.Wow, that's a big step. You haven't talked about that before. That's really encouraging. I'm not that upset about the interview. It wasn't a job I was thrilled about anyway.
> > > Gee, now that we know Hoover...Larry Hoover has a girlfriend and children, it kinda takes the wind out of the fanclub's sails, doesn't it? What do we do now???
> >
> > Yes, 2 little Larry Hoovers running around (that we know of). Kind of scary, isn't it? We can still be fans. Afterall, we're not groupies (at least I'm not!!!)
>
> Oh, c'mon Kara! You're not still jealous about the whole vacation incident, are you???
>Oh sure, rub it in, why don't you?
> > What do we do now? We pry for more details of course!
>
> HeHe That goes without saying...
>
> > I'll tell you my final program soon too. It will probably be a lot like yours. I think I'm going to put off taking a lot of the stuff to fortify my brain and concentrate on feeling better first. I think I was trying to bite off more than I could chew because of panic.
> >
> > Talk to you later,
> > Kara
>
> I will be looking forward to your plan. I hope tomorrow I will be up to diving into this new program, and I will keep you updated.Actually, the plan won't be like my other postings that went on and on and on about possible supplements. It'll be so much like yours that maybe I'll just list the differences. (I wonder how your new doctor feels about ginkgo. That's one of the few differences I can see other than that bladder-wrecking herb.) Either way, we're both going to be supporting the vitamin and herb industry!!
>
> Take care,
>
> Simus
You too,
Kara
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 28, 2004, at 9:49:19
In reply to Adrenal Fatigue Treatment Article - Simus, posted by KaraS on August 24, 2004, at 3:43:43
> I thought you might find this article interesting. It recommends intramuscular or intravenous ACE (adrenal cortical extract) along with adrenal glandular concentrate and glycyrrhiza (licorice)for treatment of Adrenal Fatigue. (Wonder what you know who would think about this.)
Moi?
You're out in the fringe with IM or IV adrenal extracts, from a treatment perspective. But hey, if you've got a doctor who both believes in adrenal fatigue, and who treats it aggressively, more power to you both.
I've got some adrenal glandular concentrate, but I use it sparingly. I'm just very leary of unsupervised self-treatment via hormones themselves. I don't have easy access to blood assays and such, because my doctor is somewhat traditional (and I'd have to pay for them if I could get his authorization, unless I can demonstrate need, i.e. frank Addison's disease).
I'm more comfortable with using licorice. It's less harsh....a little fuzzier, from the sense of obvious activity.
> Here's the link if you're interested. It's only one page long and is in laymen's terms.
>
> http://www.medical-library.net/sites/framer.html?/sites/_general_discussion_of_adrenal_fatigue.htmlGood link. Well explained.
> I've also been doing a bit of reading about substances to get the brain working better again. Most of the articles recommend the same things: NAC, reduced glutathione, Acetyl-l-Carnitine (ALC), Co-Q10, blueberries, grape seed extract, Alpha Lipoic Acid (ALA), Ginkgo and phosphatidylserine. I'm sure I'm missing some things but I wouldn't be surprised if your doctor adds some or all of these supplements to your regimen. Can't wait to hear about what she has to say or maybe she'll wait for test results before prescribing anything.
>
> Talk to ya later,
> KaraThat's a pretty good list, but it ought to have selenium in it. There is more than one form of glutathione, and the selenium one is more powerful. It incorporates selenocysteine in place of the sulphur-bearing L-cysteine.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 28, 2004, at 10:00:34
In reply to Re: Adrenal Fatigue Treatment Article - Simus » KaraS, posted by Simus on August 28, 2004, at 0:44:50
> > > The visit with the Naturopathic doctor went well. She reviewed my medical history, my meds, and all my supplements. She agreed with the adrenal fatigue based on my symptoms. And she diagnosed me as low thyroid from a previous blood test that my family doctor didn't think was abnormal. She also ordered another thyroid test panel to verify the numbers. She suspected a candida problem so I am being tested for that too. I requested a food allergy/sensitivity test just to know what to avoid to feel better.
> > >
> > I'm curious as to what your TSH level was that your previous doctor decided was ok. You said you were negative on the Hashimotos antibodies? (If not, we would have almost identical problems.)
>
> My TSH was 5.11. She said that most people feel better with a TSH around 1-2. I was never tested for Hashimoto antibodies. I just assumed I didn't have Hashimotos because my doctor didn't think my TSH was a problem.5.1 was thought of as normal! Geez. 3 should be the cutoff, IMHO.
> > Most of us probably have candida problems because of the antibiotics and lots of sugar. If so, she'll probably put you on the diet. You'll feel better and you'll lose weight. I did when I went on it a few years back.
>
> I think you are right.
>
> > I also had a food sensitivity test done then. I was really surprised at the foods I tested sensitive to: squash/zuchini/cucumber family, yogurt, strong cheeses, yeast (but not wheat) and I can't think of the rest. Wonder if the results would be the same today or if I'd have a whole different set or maybe just additional ones.How was the testing done? There are good ways, and there are absolutely bogus ways.
> Hmmm... that isn't too bad... I can give up summer squash - but I am hoping chocolate doesn't show up on my list!!! LOL
Me too.
> > > She liked the basic supplements I am on now. (Really good quality multi-vit, calcium/magnesium/zinc, C, quercetin, P-5-P (B6), B5, and borage oil. She wanted me to add flaxseed oil to the base supplements. She said that in the future she is going to have me add selenium and chromium too.
> >
> > How come flaxseed oil rather than fish oil? Didn't "you know who" say that the latter is better?Moi? Dare you not speak his name?
> I remember reading something at one time that said that fish oil wasn't the best option for my condition... but it was a while ago and I can't tell you for sure which condition it was referring to. I just made a little mental note about it. I think it was because of either the pyrolluria or the adrenal fatigue though...I can't think of a single disorder where fish oils are contraindicated. If you can find such a reference, let me know, 'kay?
> > I don't remember - do you get hypoglycemic? If not, I wonder why she wants the additional chromium.
>
> I did (do?), but I didn't talk about it with her. It could be to deter possible sugar cravings if I test positive for candida. (???)Hypoglycemia does indeed go with both candidiasis and chromium deficiency.
> > > I told her I drink green tea, ginger tea, and ginseng tea. She told me to avoid the panax(?) ginsengs.
> >
> > Panax gingsengs are quite stimulating. Maybe that's why.
>
> Yeah, and she said that "panax is a man's herb". I assumed that she meant that it boosted testosterone.I'll have to look into that.
> > > She gave me a glandular adrenal support. She is also starting me on licorice - says it is wonderful and she takes it herself. And she gave me a tincture with ashwaganda(sp?), bladderwrack, and coleus.
> >
> > I was going to ask Larry what he thought of glandulars. That'll probably make a big difference. She's also using the standard treatments we've read about in licorice and ashwaganda (I've seen it spelled that way and with an "h" at the end after the "d".) I'm thinking of adding both of those.How long are you supposed to use the licorice? It's not to be used for lengthy periods.
Glandulars, see previous post.
> > I've never even heard of bladderwrack (frightening name, don't you think?)
>
> Yeah. LOL It is like kelp and it supplies iodine.Why not just use kelp, then? <shrug>
> > or coleus. She must really know her stuff.
>
> The coleus is a new one to me too. I think it is for insomnia - not sure.I dunno either.
> > > For the insomnia she suggested taking a calcium/magnesium (without zinc) supplement in the evening. She also recommended lemon balm tea.
> >
> > Did you tell her that you're already taking a lot of magnesium?
>
> Yeah, but she suggested taking part of the daily dose in the evening.Some people only use it at night, as it is sedating.
> > Our book says to take them separately. I'm not sure why though.
>
> Maybe they compete to some degree...Please dismiss that concept. It is one of those pseudoscientific misinterpretations that just won't go away. It's false.
> > Wonder if the above will be enough for you.
>
> She is definitely not out of ideas yet.That's a good thing, all by itself. Are you comfortable with the care?
> > > Gee, now that we know Hoover...Larry Hoover has a girlfriend and children, it kinda takes the wind out of the fanclub's sails, doesn't it? What do we do now????????
> > Yes, 2 little Larry Hoovers running around (that we know of).
That I know of, as well.
> Kind of scary, isn't it? We can still be fans. Afterall, we're not groupies (at least I'm not!!!)
I was hoping for one, at least once in my life. :-/
> Oh, c'mon Kara! You're not still jealous about the whole vacation incident, are you???Ya. Are ya?
> > What do we do now? We pry for more details of course!
>
> HeHe That goes without saying...I'll sprinkle tidbits now and again, just to keep you craving more.....
Bwaa-haa-haa!Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 28, 2004, at 10:07:08
In reply to Re: Adrenal Fatigue Treatment Article - Simus » Simus, posted by KaraS on August 28, 2004, at 3:16:08
> That's one of the few differences I can see other than that bladder-wrecking herb.)
http://www.healthy.net/scr/article.asp?PageType=article&ID=1845
The plant is named because it has a bladder-like structure when mature, and it's an Anglicized version of the root name "vraick". So, it's the vraick with a bladder.
Lar
Posted by KaraS on August 28, 2004, at 17:14:44
In reply to Re: bladderwrack » KaraS, posted by Larry Hoover on August 28, 2004, at 10:07:08
Sounds like a good, useful herb for those of us with thyroid problems. Supposed to help with weight gain from thyroid problems according to Larry's posted link. BTW, Simus, no wonder you've been having trouble with weight gain with a TSH of 5.11! I think this doctor of yours knows what she's doing!
Posted by KaraS on August 28, 2004, at 17:39:57
In reply to Re: Adrenal Fatigue Treatment Article - Simus » KaraS, posted by Larry Hoover on August 28, 2004, at 9:49:19
> > I thought you might find this article interesting. It recommends intramuscular or intravenous ACE (adrenal cortical extract) along with adrenal glandular concentrate and glycyrrhiza (licorice)for treatment of Adrenal Fatigue. (Wonder what you know who would think about this.)
>
> Moi?
>
> You're out in the fringe with IM or IV adrenal extracts, from a treatment perspective. But hey, if you've got a doctor who both believes in adrenal fatigue, and who treats it aggressively, more power to you both.
>
> I've got some adrenal glandular concentrate, but I use it sparingly. I'm just very leary of unsupervised self-treatment via hormones themselves. I don't have easy access to blood assays and such, because my doctor is somewhat traditional (and I'd have to pay for them if I could get his authorization, unless I can demonstrate need, i.e. frank Addison's disease).
>
> I'm more comfortable with using licorice. It's less harsh....a little fuzzier, from the sense of obvious activity.
>OK, I'll stay away from it but Simus is being supervised. I worry about glandulars in the sense of possibly picking up some kind of virus or other pathogen from the animal source. But a ot of holistic doctors really believe in them. I've seen a lot of recommendations of thymus glandulars or derivatives (such as thymic Protein). Are you also suspect of those?
> > Here's the link if you're interested. It's only one page long and is in laymen's terms.
> >
> > http://www.medical-library.net/sites/framer.html?/sites/_general_discussion_of_adrenal_fatigue.html
>
> Good link. Well explained.
>
> > I've also been doing a bit of reading about substances to get the brain working better again. Most of the articles recommend the same things: NAC, reduced glutathione, Acetyl-l-Carnitine (ALC), Co-Q10, blueberries, grape seed extract, Alpha Lipoic Acid (ALA), Ginkgo and phosphatidylserine. I'm sure I'm missing some things but I wouldn't be surprised if your doctor adds some or all of these supplements to your regimen. Can't wait to hear about what she has to say or maybe she'll wait for test results before prescribing anything.
> >
> > Talk to ya later,
> > Kara
>
> That's a pretty good list, but it ought to have selenium in it. There is more than one form of glutathione, and the selenium one is more powerful. It incorporates selenocysteine in place of the sulphur-bearing L-cysteine.
>
> Lar
>
>
Thanks. I'll make sure that I get the right kind of glutathione when I finally add that in. It has to be "reduced" though, right? I've read that if it isn't, then it won't get through the BBB.K
Posted by KaraS on August 28, 2004, at 17:56:13
In reply to Re: Adrenal Fatigue Treatment Article - Simus » Simus, posted by Larry Hoover on August 28, 2004, at 10:00:34
Your post was to Simus but many of the questions you asked were for me (in response to things I had said) so I'm answering those questions here. Just didn't want you to think I was budding in everywhere (though sometimes I feel like I am).
> > > > The visit with the Naturopathic doctor went well. She reviewed my medical history, my meds, and all my supplements. She agreed with the adrenal fatigue based on my symptoms. And she diagnosed me as low thyroid from a previous blood test that my family doctor didn't think was abnormal. She also ordered another thyroid test panel to verify the numbers. She suspected a candida problem so I am being tested for that too. I requested a food allergy/sensitivity test just to know what to avoid to feel better.
> > > >
> > > I'm curious as to what your TSH level was that your previous doctor decided was ok. You said you were negative on the Hashimotos antibodies? (If not, we would have almost identical problems.)
> >
> > My TSH was 5.11. She said that most people feel better with a TSH around 1-2. I was never tested for Hashimoto antibodies. I just assumed I didn't have Hashimotos because my doctor didn't think my TSH was a problem.
>
> 5.1 was thought of as normal! Geez. 3 should be the cutoff, IMHO.
>
> > > Most of us probably have candida problems because of the antibiotics and lots of sugar. If so, she'll probably put you on the diet. You'll feel better and you'll lose weight. I did when I went on it a few years back.
> >
> > I think you are right.
> >
> > > I also had a food sensitivity test done then. I was really surprised at the foods I tested sensitive to: squash/zuchini/cucumber family, yogurt, strong cheeses, yeast (but not wheat) and I can't think of the rest. Wonder if the results would be the same today or if I'd have a whole different set or maybe just additional ones.
>
> How was the testing done? There are good ways, and there are absolutely bogus ways.
I don't remember. It was many years ago. I'll have to find that report someday.
> > Hmmm... that isn't too bad... I can give up summer squash - but I am hoping chocolate doesn't show up on my list!!! LOL
>
> Me too.
>
> > > > She liked the basic supplements I am on now. (Really good quality multi-vit, calcium/magnesium/zinc, C, quercetin, P-5-P (B6), B5, and borage oil. She wanted me to add flaxseed oil to the base supplements. She said that in the future she is going to have me add selenium and chromium too.
> > >
> > > How come flaxseed oil rather than fish oil? Didn't "you know who" say that the latter is better?
>
> Moi? Dare you not speak his name?
I just got tired of saying "Larry says this" and "Larry says that".
> > I remember reading something at one time that said that fish oil wasn't the best option for my condition... but it was a while ago and I can't tell you for sure which condition it was referring to. I just made a little mental note about it. I think it was because of either the pyrolluria or the adrenal fatigue though...
>
> I can't think of a single disorder where fish oils are contraindicated. If you can find such a reference, let me know, 'kay?
>
> > > I don't remember - do you get hypoglycemic? If not, I wonder why she wants the additional chromium.
> >
> > I did (do?), but I didn't talk about it with her. It could be to deter possible sugar cravings if I test positive for candida. (???)
>
> Hypoglycemia does indeed go with both candidiasis and chromium deficiency.
>
> > > > I told her I drink green tea, ginger tea, and ginseng tea. She told me to avoid the panax(?) ginsengs.
> > >
> > > Panax gingsengs are quite stimulating. Maybe that's why.
> >
> > Yeah, and she said that "panax is a man's herb". I assumed that she meant that it boosted testosterone.
>
> I'll have to look into that.
Actually, I read recently that Panax Gingseng was more for men. I don't remember where or why. Probably it was in the book on adrenal fatigue that both Simus and I have.
> > > > She gave me a glandular adrenal support. She is also starting me on licorice - says it is wonderful and she takes it herself. And she gave me a tincture with ashwaganda(sp?), bladderwrack, and coleus.
> > >
> > > I was going to ask Larry what he thought of glandulars. That'll probably make a big difference. She's also using the standard treatments we've read about in licorice and ashwaganda (I've seen it spelled that way and with an "h" at the end after the "d".) I'm thinking of adding both of those.
>
> How long are you supposed to use the licorice? It's not to be used for lengthy periods.
>
> Glandulars, see previous post.
>
> > > I've never even heard of bladderwrack (frightening name, don't you think?)
> >
> > Yeah. LOL It is like kelp and it supplies iodine.
>
> Why not just use kelp, then? <shrug>
>
> > > or coleus. She must really know her stuff.
> >
> > The coleus is a new one to me too. I think it is for insomnia - not sure.
>
> I dunno either.
>
> > > > For the insomnia she suggested taking a calcium/magnesium (without zinc) supplement in the evening. She also recommended lemon balm tea.
> > >
> > > Did you tell her that you're already taking a lot of magnesium?
> >
> > Yeah, but she suggested taking part of the daily dose in the evening.
>
> Some people only use it at night, as it is sedating.
>
> > > Our book says to take them separately. I'm not sure why though.
> >
> > Maybe they compete to some degree...
>
> Please dismiss that concept. It is one of those pseudoscientific misinterpretations that just won't go away. It's false.
>
> > > Wonder if the above will be enough for you.
> >
> > She is definitely not out of ideas yet.
>
> That's a good thing, all by itself. Are you comfortable with the care?
>
> > > > Gee, now that we know Hoover...Larry Hoover has a girlfriend and children, it kinda takes the wind out of the fanclub's sails, doesn't it? What do we do now???
>
> ?????
>
> > > Yes, 2 little Larry Hoovers running around (that we know of).
>
> That I know of, as well.
>
> > Kind of scary, isn't it? We can still be fans. Afterall, we're not groupies (at least I'm not!!!)
>
> I was hoping for one, at least once in my life. :-/
>> > Oh, c'mon Kara! You're not still jealous about the whole vacation incident, are you???
>
> Ya. Are ya?Of course not. I couldn't care less about the vacation you all had that I wasn't invited to. I just won't invite any of along on my next vacation. :P
> > > What do we do now? We pry for more details of course!
> >
> > HeHe That goes without saying...
>
> I'll sprinkle tidbits now and again, just to keep you craving more.....
>
> Bwaa-haa-haa!
>
> Lar
That's just pure evil!
(Your life is probably less interesting to you than it is to us!!)-K
Posted by Simus on August 28, 2004, at 23:59:32
In reply to Re: Adrenal Fatigue Treatment Article - Simus » Simus, posted by KaraS on August 28, 2004, at 3:16:08
> > > > The visit with the Naturopathic doctor went well. She reviewed my medical history, my meds, and all my supplements. She agreed with the adrenal fatigue based on my symptoms. And she diagnosed me as low thyroid from a previous blood test that my family doctor didn't think was abnormal. She also ordered another thyroid test panel to verify the numbers. She suspected a candida problem so I am being tested for that too. I requested a food allergy/sensitivity test just to know what to avoid to feel better.
> > > >
> > > I'm curious as to what your TSH level was that your previous doctor decided was ok. You said you were negative on the Hashimotos antibodies? (If not, we would have almost identical problems.)
> >
> > My TSH was 5.11. She said that most people feel better with a TSH around 1-2. I was never tested for Hashimoto antibodies. I just assumed I didn't have Hashimotos because my doctor didn't think my TSH was a problem.
> >
>
> Your previous doctor should have his or her license revoked! The new guidelines are 3 or 3.5 for the TSH level cutoff. The old guidelines were 5. So even if he were going by the old guidelines, he should have suspected that you were heading into trouble and taken an antibody test. Is the naturopath going to get the antibody test?Sorry to say I am not sure...
> Not that it makes that much difference in the long run. The treatment is the same but it's still nice to know what is causing the problem. If it's Hashimotos, then I would think it's important to know that you have an autoimmune condition (which is incredibly common for women our age, by the way). I suspect that your naturopath will get you on Armour Thyroid or one of the other natural kinds (thryoid hormone derived from pigs). I wonder if you'd have trouble getting it if you're in a small city or town. Most of the mainstream doctors push the synthetics which don't have T3 in them.
Armor is available at our local pharmacy. Although for some reason I just don't like the idea of taking hormones. But, if it will make me well, I had better just go ahead and do it.
> There's an excellent web site on thyroid problems by Mary Shomon, a health care advocate. It's one of the about.com sites. It answers any possible question you have on the issue (assuming it's answerable).
Thanks, I will have to check it out.
> > > I also had a food sensitivity test done then. I was really surprised at the foods I tested sensitive to: squash/zuchini/cucumber family, yogurt, strong cheeses, yeast (but not wheat) and I can't think of the rest. Wonder if the results would be the same today or if I'd have a whole different set or maybe just additional ones.
> >
> > Hmmm... that isn't too bad... I can give up summer squash - but I am hoping chocolate doesn't show up on my list!!! LOL
>
> That's the spirit! So willing and able to give up summer squash! (Unfortunately chocolate is already off of your list (and mine, sigh) for the adrenal fatigue.)I was hoping you wouldn't remember that and point it out. =)
> > > > She liked the basic supplements I am on now. (Really good quality multi-vit, calcium/magnesium/zinc, C, quercetin, P-5-P (B6), B5, and borage oil. She wanted me to add flaxseed oil to the base supplements. She said that in the future she is going to have me add selenium and chromium too.
> > >
> > > How come flaxseed oil rather than fish oil? Didn't "you know who" say that the latter is better?
> >
> > I remember reading something at one time that said that fish oil wasn't the best option for my condition... but it was a while ago and I can't tell you for sure which condition it was referring to. I just made a little mental note about it. I think it was because of either the pyrolluria or the adrenal fatigue though...
>
> I've just recently started hearing about pyrolluria but I don't really know much about it or understand it well yet. Maybe if I don't learn about it I won't have to discover that I have it. (LOL)LOL - I understand that!
> > > > I told her I drink green tea, ginger tea, and ginseng tea. She told me to avoid the panax(?) ginsengs.
> > >
> > > Panax gingsengs are quite stimulating. Maybe that's why.
> >
> > Yeah, and she said that "panax is a man's herb". I assumed that she meant that it boosted testosterone.
>
> No wonder my voice has gotten lower...
>
> (kidding of course)I did mistake you for Larry for a minute there...
> > > > For the insomnia she suggested taking a calcium/magnesium (without zinc) supplement in the evening. She also recommended lemon balm tea.
> > >
> > > Did you tell her that you're already taking a lot of magnesium?
> >
> > Yeah, but she suggested taking part of the daily dose in the evening.
> >
> > > Our book says to take them separately. I'm not sure why though.
> >
> > Maybe they compete to some degree...
> >
>
> Last night I took 2 magnesiums (400 mg. each) at night separate from the calcium for the first time. I really do feel better today. (I took two of them because they're part magnesium oxide, the one that's not supposed to be absorbed that well.) Wonder if it's a fluke or if it's related at all.Hey, tonight I took all my magnesium later than usual and I actually nodded off for a while at 10:00PM! Of course when my husband came in and turned on the light and football game loud enough to hear in the next room and then started talking to me, for some reason I woke up. I wonder what the doctor could give me for that??? A big stick? LOL (Thank goodness he's cute.)
> > > > I sound a little self-absorbed here, huh? How have you been? How is work going?
> > >
> > > No you don't sound self-absorbed at all! I wanted to know exactly what she prescribed. It sounds like she's attacking the adrenal fatigue first. I wonder if she'll prescribe anything more directly for the brain fog.
> >
> > I am not having too much trouble with brain fog right now. But she did say that candida can cause it, and getting rid of the candida helps in brain function.
> >
>
> Yeah, that's true. I ordered some stuff "Candida Cleanse" or something like that from NOW brand. I was planning on starting that and the diet at some point in the future. If I can discipline myself enough, maybe I'll do it sooner rather than later.I wonder what is in it...
> > > I'm doing a little better today than the last few days. Don't know why but I'm not complaining.
> >
> > Hey, "a little better" is at least a step in the RIGHT direction.
>
> Definitely. I think I'll also try to find a good uplifting book to lose myself in also. Something that will inspire, yet get me out of myself for a while.It sure helps.
> > > Nothing new with work. I almost had an interview this afternoon but it got cancelled because they really liked the person they met with this morning.
> >
> > Sheesh. Sorry to hear that. I hope I am up to going back to work soon too.
>
> Wow, that's a big step. You haven't talked about that before. That's really encouraging. I'm not that upset about the interview. It wasn't a job I was thrilled about anyway.I'm glad that the interview thing didn't get you down. As far as my looking for a job... On the "good" days it seems like a REALLY good idea, and on the "not-so-good" days I am very grateful I don't have to either call in sick or drag myself into work feeling like that.
> > > > Gee, now that we know Hoover...Larry Hoover has a girlfriend and children, it kinda takes the wind out of the fanclub's sails, doesn't it? What do we do now???
> > >
> > > Yes, 2 little Larry Hoovers running around (that we know of). Kind of scary, isn't it? We can still be fans. Afterall, we're not groupies (at least I'm not!!!)
> >
> > Oh, c'mon Kara! You're not still jealous about the whole vacation incident, are you???
> >
>
> Oh sure, rub it in, why don't you?Sorry. I know it was a "sore spot" in our friendship.
> > > I'll tell you my final program soon too. It will probably be a lot like yours. I think I'm going to put off taking a lot of the stuff to fortify my brain and concentrate on feeling better first. I think I was trying to bite off more than I could chew because of panic.
> > I will be looking forward to your plan. I hope tomorrow I will be up to diving into this new program, and I will keep you updated.
>
> Actually, the plan won't be like my other postings that went on and on and on about possible supplements. It'll be so much like yours that maybe I'll just list the differences. (I wonder how your new doctor feels about ginkgo.Knowing her, she will get to it.
> That's one of the few differences I can see other than that bladder-wrecking herb.) Either way, we're both going to be supporting the vitamin and herb industry!!
Yeah, but they are supporting us too. Thank God for natural means of getting healthy instead of just continuing to drug ourselves to bandaid the symptoms!
Posted by Simus on August 29, 2004, at 1:29:10
In reply to Re: Adrenal Fatigue Treatment Article - Simus » Simus, posted by Larry Hoover on August 28, 2004, at 10:00:34
> > > > The visit with the Naturopathic doctor went well. She reviewed my medical history, my meds, and all my supplements. She agreed with the adrenal fatigue based on my symptoms. And she diagnosed me as low thyroid from a previous blood test that my family doctor didn't think was abnormal. She also ordered another thyroid test panel to verify the numbers. She suspected a candida problem so I am being tested for that too. I requested a food allergy/sensitivity test just to know what to avoid to feel better.
> > > >
> > > I'm curious as to what your TSH level was that your previous doctor decided was ok. You said you were negative on the Hashimotos antibodies? (If not, we would have almost identical problems.)
> >
> > My TSH was 5.11. She said that most people feel better with a TSH around 1-2. I was never tested for Hashimoto antibodies. I just assumed I didn't have Hashimotos because my doctor didn't think my TSH was a problem.
>
> 5.1 was thought of as normal! Geez. 3 should be the cutoff, IMHO.That testing was done in April of this year. I just assumed they knew what they were talking about. I learned something from that...
> > > I also had a food sensitivity test done then. I was really surprised at the foods I tested sensitive to: squash/zuchini/cucumber family, yogurt, strong cheeses, yeast (but not wheat) and I can't think of the rest. Wonder if the results would be the same today or if I'd have a whole different set or maybe just additional ones.
>
> How was the testing done? There are good ways, and there are absolutely bogus ways.All I can tell you right now is that it is called a "RASP" blood test, and it is done at Immuno Labs in Florida.
*I was just digging in some of my info and found the test - Elisa: an enzyme-linked immunosorbant assay. I hope this helps.> > Hmmm... that isn't too bad... I can give up summer squash - but I am hoping chocolate doesn't show up on my list!!! LOL
>
> Me too.
>
> > > > She liked the basic supplements I am on now. (Really good quality multi-vit, calcium/magnesium/zinc, C, quercetin, P-5-P (B6), B5, and borage oil. She wanted me to add flaxseed oil to the base supplements. She said that in the future she is going to have me add selenium and chromium too.
> > >
> > > How come flaxseed oil rather than fish oil? Didn't "you know who" say that the latter is better?
>
> Moi? Dare you not speak his name?LOL I think it is your whole "James Bond" image thing...
> > I remember reading something at one time that said that fish oil wasn't the best option for my condition... but it was a while ago and I can't tell you for sure which condition it was referring to. I just made a little mental note about it. I think it was because of either the pyrolluria or the adrenal fatigue though...
>
> I can't think of a single disorder where fish oils are contraindicated. If you can find such a reference, let me know, 'kay?Boy oh boy, Larry. Now I know what brain ache is. I was wracking my brain and digging for this for a long time. It is because of the pyroluria condition. Dr. Edmond O`Flaherty has a very good Omega3 website http://www.omega3.20megsfree.com/whats_new.html where he included some of Dr. Walsh's work at the Pfeiffer clinic on pyrolurics. "We've had considerable success in using PUFA's (poly-unsaturated fatty acids) to treat persons with mental illness, but have found that omega-3 and omega-6 oils can cause clear worsening if given inappropriately. Pyrolurics need omega-6..... whereas most other patients need omega-3. There is a competition between o3 and o6 for zinc, B-6, and the delta 5,6 desaturases. The ideal would be to identify a person's biochemical individuality, with respect to PUFA's, then treat accordingly."
> > > I don't remember - do you get hypoglycemic? If not, I wonder why she wants the additional chromium.
> >
> > I did (do?), but I didn't talk about it with her. It could be to deter possible sugar cravings if I test positive for candida. (???)
>
> Hypoglycemia does indeed go with both candidiasis and chromium deficiency.
>
> > > > I told her I drink green tea, ginger tea, and ginseng tea. She told me to avoid the panax(?) ginsengs.
> > >
> > > Panax gingsengs are quite stimulating. Maybe that's why.
> >
> > Yeah, and she said that "panax is a man's herb". I assumed that she meant that it boosted testosterone.
>
> I'll have to look into that.
>
> > > > She gave me a glandular adrenal support. She is also starting me on licorice - says it is wonderful and she takes it herself. And she gave me a tincture with ashwaganda(sp?), bladderwrack, and coleus.
> > >
> > > I was going to ask Larry what he thought of glandulars. That'll probably make a big difference. She's also using the standard treatments we've read about in licorice and ashwaganda (I've seen it spelled that way and with an "h" at the end after the "d".) I'm thinking of adding both of those.
>
> How long are you supposed to use the licorice? It's not to be used for lengthy periods.I asked the doctor about that. She seemed to think that the licorice and glandular adrenal treatments were only going to be required for a short time.
>
> Glandulars, see previous post.I cautiously consider everything lately...
> > > I've never even heard of bladderwrack (frightening name, don't you think?)
> >
> > Yeah. LOL It is like kelp and it supplies iodine.
>
> Why not just use kelp, then? <shrug>Good question. I will have to ask her next appointment.
> > > or coleus. She must really know her stuff.
> >
> > The coleus is a new one to me too. I think it is for insomnia - not sure.
>
> I dunno either.
>
> > > > For the insomnia she suggested taking a calcium/magnesium (without zinc) supplement in the evening. She also recommended lemon balm tea.
> > >
> > > Did you tell her that you're already taking a lot of magnesium?
> >
> > Yeah, but she suggested taking part of the daily dose in the evening.
>
> Some people only use it at night, as it is sedating.If I can get a sedating effect by something that is actually GOOD for my body... YEE-HAH =)
> > > Our book says to take them separately. I'm not sure why though.
> >
> > Maybe they compete to some degree...
>
> Please dismiss that concept. It is one of those pseudoscientific misinterpretations that just won't go away. It's false.
>
> > > Wonder if the above will be enough for you.
> >
> > She is definitely not out of ideas yet.
>
> That's a good thing, all by itself. Are you comfortable with the care?Yes. But everything is relative, you know. I am sick and tired of being sick and tired, and still having the conventional doctors tell me there is nothing wrong with me. At least she is offering some hope...
> > > > Gee, now that we know Hoover...Larry Hoover has a girlfriend and children, it kinda takes the wind out of the fanclub's sails, doesn't it? What do we do now???
>
> ?????Sorry, Lar. We kinda had you built up as bigger than life when we were missing you on your vacation. Can you imagine James Bond in the suburbs with a wife and children? LOL We still adore you though...
> > > Yes, 2 little Larry Hoovers running around (that we know of).
>
> That I know of, as well.
>
> > Kind of scary, isn't it? We can still be fans. Afterall, we're not groupies (at least I'm not!!!)
>
> I was hoping for one, at least once in my life. :-/LOL She just won't admit to it now since you didn't invite her to the Alps too.
> > Oh, c'mon Kara! You're not still jealous about the whole vacation incident, are you???
>
> Ya. Are ya?
>
> > > What do we do now? We pry for more details of course!
> >
> > HeHe That goes without saying...
>
> I'll sprinkle tidbits now and again, just to keep you craving more.....
>
> Bwaa-haa-haa!
>
> LarYou are something else, Lar.
Simus
Posted by Simus on August 29, 2004, at 1:31:29
In reply to Re: bladderwrack - Simus and Larry, posted by KaraS on August 28, 2004, at 17:14:44
> Sounds like a good, useful herb for those of us with thyroid problems. Supposed to help with weight gain from thyroid problems according to Larry's posted link. BTW, Simus, no wonder you've been having trouble with weight gain with a TSH of 5.11! I think this doctor of yours knows what she's doing!
>
I sure hope so, Kara. At least I feel I am on the right path now.Simus
Posted by Simus on August 29, 2004, at 1:37:28
In reply to Re: Adrenal Fatigue Treatment Article - Simus » Larry Hoover, posted by KaraS on August 28, 2004, at 17:56:13
> Your post was to Simus...
Hey Kara, we're always glad to have any input from you.
Simus
Posted by KaraS on August 29, 2004, at 4:11:57
In reply to Re: Adrenal Fatigue Treatment Article - Simus » KaraS, posted by Simus on August 28, 2004, at 23:59:32
> > > My TSH was 5.11. She said that most people feel better with a TSH around 1-2. I was never tested for Hashimoto antibodies. I just assumed I didn't have Hashimotos because my doctor didn't think my TSH was a problem.
> > >
> >
> > Your previous doctor should have his or her license revoked! The new guidelines are 3 or 3.5 for the TSH level cutoff. The old guidelines were 5. So even if he were going by the old guidelines, he should have suspected that you were heading into trouble and taken an antibody test. Is the naturopath going to get the antibody test?
>
> Sorry to say I am not sure...
She probably will. She sounds very thorough. If not, you could always ask for it.
> > Not that it makes that much difference in the long run. The treatment is the same but it's still nice to know what is causing the problem. If it's Hashimotos, then I would think it's important to know that you have an autoimmune condition (which is incredibly common for women our age, by the way). I suspect that your naturopath will get you on Armour Thyroid or one of the other natural kinds (thryoid hormone derived from pigs). I wonder if you'd have trouble getting it if you're in a small city or town. Most of the mainstream doctors push the synthetics which don't have T3 in them.
>
> Armor is available at our local pharmacy. Although for some reason I just don't like the idea of taking hormones. But, if it will make me well, I had better just go ahead and do it.
>
> > There's an excellent web site on thyroid problems by Mary Shomon, a health care advocate. It's one of the about.com sites. It answers any possible question you have on the issue (assuming it's answerable).
>
> Thanks, I will have to check it out.Here's the link:
http://thyroid.about.com/blthyroid.htm
> Hey, tonight I took all my magnesium later than usual and I actually nodded off for a while at 10:00PM! Of course when my husband came in and turned on the light and football game loud enough to hear in the next room and then started talking to me, for some reason I woke up. I wonder what the doctor could give me for that??? A big stick? LOL (Thank goodness he's cute.)
For cute I could put up with a little noise...
> > Yeah, that's true. I ordered some stuff "Candida Cleanse" or something like that from NOW brand. I was planning on starting that and the diet at some point in the future. If I can discipline myself enough, maybe I'll do it sooner rather than later.
>
> I wonder what is in it...Actually it's called "Candida Clear". There are lots of these kinds of products out there. Your doctor probably knows of better one(s) but this has Caprylic Acid, Pau D'Arco, Black Walnut and Oregano Oil in it.
> I'm glad that the interview thing didn't get you down. As far as my looking for a job... On the "good" days it seems like a REALLY good idea, and on the "not-so-good" days I am very grateful I don't have to either call in sick or drag myself into work feeling like that.Why push yourself if you don't have to until you're at least 95% ready? Let yourself heal if you can!
> > That's one of the few differences I can see other than that bladder-wrecking herb.) Either way, we're both going to be supporting the vitamin and herb industry!!
Ok, so nobody like my joke about the bladderwrack herb?
> Yeah, but they are supporting us too. Thank God for natural means of getting healthy instead of just continuing to drug ourselves to bandaid the symptoms!I'll drink to that! (And we should add not having to deal with ingnorant, condescending mainstream doctors when it comes to these types of conditions.)
Posted by KaraS on August 29, 2004, at 4:13:19
In reply to Re: Adrenal Fatigue Treatment Article - Simus, posted by Simus on August 29, 2004, at 1:37:28
Posted by KaraS on August 29, 2004, at 4:22:25
In reply to Re: Adrenal Fatigue Treatment Article - Simus » Larry Hoover, posted by Simus on August 29, 2004, at 1:29:10
> All I can tell you right now is that it is called a "RASP" blood test, and it is done at Immuno Labs in Florida.
> *I was just digging in some of my info and found the test - Elisa: an enzyme-linked immunosorbant assay. I hope this helps.
Elisa sounds familiar to me (although RASP doesn't). Maybe we had the same food sensitivity test. Is that a good one, Lar?
> LOL She just won't admit to it now since you didn't invite her to the Alps too.
Oh, now you were "invited"???? You told me you crashed their party. I don't know what to believe from you anymore, Simus. (LOL)
Posted by Simus on August 29, 2004, at 14:01:56
In reply to Re: Adrenal Fatigue Treatment Article - Simus » Simus, posted by KaraS on August 29, 2004, at 4:22:25
> > LOL She just won't admit to it now since you didn't invite her to the Alps too.
>
> Oh, now you were "invited"???? You told me you crashed their party. I don't know what to believe from you anymore, Simus. (LOL)OK, "invited" is stretching it a bit. Bribing the concierge for the room number and crawling in under the room service cart wouldn't exactly be considered "invited", would it? HeHe
Posted by KaraS on August 29, 2004, at 19:15:38
In reply to Re: Adrenal Fatigue Treatment Article - Simus » KaraS, posted by Simus on August 29, 2004, at 14:01:56
> > > LOL She just won't admit to it now since you didn't invite her to the Alps too.
> >
> > Oh, now you were "invited"???? You told me you crashed their party. I don't know what to believe from you anymore, Simus. (LOL)
>
> OK, "invited" is stretching it a bit. Bribing the concierge for the room number and crawling in under the room service cart wouldn't exactly be considered "invited", would it? HeHe
OK, I guess I forgive you. Desperate people sometimes do desperate things. Besides, I think it's Larry and Gabbix2 that you owe the apologies to. If I were them, I'd hire body guards next time to make sure they're safe from the likes of you!!!BTW, I meant to add earlier that you shouldn't feel bad about not knowing about the TSH level for thyroid test. I didn't know anything until after I was diagnosed and then researched it. You think that doctors might not be up on the latest theories or complex issues but you never think that they wouldn't read a very standard but critical number right like that.
I don't remember if I told you my story on my thyroid diagnosis yet. (if so, ignore) Anyway, I had all of the symptoms including the intolerance to cold. I lived on the east coast at the time where it gets quite cold. I would get up in the morning and sit directly in front of my space heater with my hot coffee to try to warm up. I had read the list of hypothyroid symptoms and I had all of them. I was convinced that I had a thyroid problem. My doctor did the test (back in the days when a TSH of 5 was considered the upper limit). I don't think I ever got the score but she told me that my thyroid was fine. Fortunately, I had a psychiatrist who knew a little bit more about it. I was also not very responsive to medications so far and she said that it could be something "subclinical" with regard to my thyroid and that I should see an endocrinologist. I didn't know what she meant at the time by "subclinical" so I just repeated it to my internist. The internist, who had a reputation for being very good and caring etc., arrogantly told me that there was no such thing and that I didn't have a thyroid problem period. Unfortunately, due to my HMO, I needed a referral from my internist in order to see a specialist. Luckily, because my psychiatrist wanted it, the internist gave in and gave me the referral. The endocrinologist felt my thyroid gland (it was enlarged and an immediate sign of possible Hashimotos). He then did a simple blood test for antibodies and he diagnosed me with the condition and put me on thyroxin. A report was sent back to my internist. Unfortunately, I didn't go back to that doctor again. I regret to this day that I didn't go back there and gloat about it. I should have made sure that she saw the report so that she would get her act together and get more informed about it and not leave any other people (not lucky enough to have a shrink who fought for them) untreated.
Posted by Simus on August 29, 2004, at 23:10:34
In reply to Re: Adrenal Fatigue Treatment Article - Simus » Simus, posted by KaraS on August 29, 2004, at 4:11:57
> > > > My TSH was 5.11. She said that most people feel better with a TSH around 1-2. I was never tested for Hashimoto antibodies. I just assumed I didn't have Hashimotos because my doctor didn't think my TSH was a problem.
> > > >
> > > Your previous doctor should have his or her license revoked! The new guidelines are 3 or 3.5 for the TSH level cutoff. The old guidelines were 5. So even if he were going by the old guidelines, he should have suspected that you were heading into trouble and taken an antibody test. Is the naturopath going to get the antibody test?
> >
> > Sorry to say I am not sure...
>
>
> She probably will. She sounds very thorough. If not, you could always ask for it.I would like to know...
> > > Not that it makes that much difference in the long run. The treatment is the same but it's still nice to know what is causing the problem. If it's Hashimotos, then I would think it's important to know that you have an autoimmune condition (which is incredibly common for women our age, by the way). I suspect that your naturopath will get you on Armour Thyroid or one of the other natural kinds (thryoid hormone derived from pigs). I wonder if you'd have trouble getting it if you're in a small city or town. Most of the mainstream doctors push the synthetics which don't have T3 in them.
> >
> > Armor is available at our local pharmacy. Although for some reason I just don't like the idea of taking hormones. But, if it will make me well, I had better just go ahead and do it.
> >
> > > There's an excellent web site on thyroid problems by Mary Shomon, a health care advocate. It's one of the about.com sites. It answers any possible question you have on the issue (assuming it's answerable).
> >
> > Thanks, I will have to check it out.
>
> Here's the link:
>
> http://thyroid.about.com/blthyroid.htm
>
> > Hey, tonight I took all my magnesium later than usual and I actually nodded off for a while at 10:00PM! Of course when my husband came in and turned on the light and football game loud enough to hear in the next room and then started talking to me, for some reason I woke up. I wonder what the doctor could give me for that??? A big stick? LOL (Thank goodness he's cute.)
>
> For cute I could put up with a little noise...Yeah, but he plays that trump card a lot... LOL
> > > Yeah, that's true. I ordered some stuff "Candida Cleanse" or something like that from NOW brand. I was planning on starting that and the diet at some point in the future. If I can discipline myself enough, maybe I'll do it sooner rather than later.
> >
> > I wonder what is in it...
>
> Actually it's called "Candida Clear". There are lots of these kinds of products out there. Your doctor probably knows of better one(s) but this has Caprylic Acid, Pau D'Arco, Black Walnut and Oregano Oil in it.I will let you know what she says.
> > I'm glad that the interview thing didn't get you down. As far as my looking for a job... On the "good" days it seems like a REALLY good idea, and on the "not-so-good" days I am very grateful I don't have to either call in sick or drag myself into work feeling like that.
>
> Why push yourself if you don't have to until you're at least 95% ready? Let yourself heal if you can!Yeah, I know. But I still miss the people and the satisfaction (and the paycheck).
> > > That's one of the few differences I can see other than that bladder-wrecking herb.) Either way, we're both going to be supporting the vitamin and herb industry!!
>
> Ok, so nobody like my joke about the bladderwrack herb?I DID! Actually, I had serious misgivings based on the name. I have had one or two UTIs, and I know the feeling. LOL
> > Yeah, but they are supporting us too. Thank God for natural means of getting healthy instead of just continuing to drug ourselves to bandaid the symptoms!
>
> I'll drink to that! (And we should add not having to deal with ingnorant, condescending mainstream doctors when it comes to these types of conditions.)
Not to mention how much we pay to be treated like that!Take care,
Simus
Posted by Simus on August 29, 2004, at 23:30:27
In reply to Re: Adrenal Fatigue Treatment Article - Simus » Simus, posted by KaraS on August 29, 2004, at 19:15:38
> > > > LOL She just won't admit to it now since you didn't invite her to the Alps too.
> > >
> > > Oh, now you were "invited"???? You told me you crashed their party. I don't know what to believe from you anymore, Simus. (LOL)
> >
> > OK, "invited" is stretching it a bit. Bribing the concierge for the room number and crawling in under the room service cart wouldn't exactly be considered "invited", would it? HeHe
>
> OK, I guess I forgive you. Desperate people sometimes do desperate things. Besides, I think it's Larry and Gabbix2 that you owe the apologies to. If I were them, I'd hire body guards next time to make sure they're safe from the likes of you!!!(Head hung in shame.) Sorry Lar and Gabbix2.
> BTW, I meant to add earlier that you shouldn't feel bad about not knowing about the TSH level for thyroid test. I didn't know anything until after I was diagnosed and then researched it. You think that doctors might not be up on the latest theories or complex issues but you never think that they wouldn't read a very standard but critical number right like that.
>
> I don't remember if I told you my story on my thyroid diagnosis yet. (if so, ignore) Anyway, I had all of the symptoms including the intolerance to cold. I lived on the east coast at the time where it gets quite cold. I would get up in the morning and sit directly in front of my space heater with my hot coffee to try to warm up. I had read the list of hypothyroid symptoms and I had all of them. I was convinced that I had a thyroid problem. My doctor did the test (back in the days when a TSH of 5 was considered the upper limit). I don't think I ever got the score but she told me that my thyroid was fine. Fortunately, I had a psychiatrist who knew a little bit more about it. I was also not very responsive to medications so far and she said that it could be something "subclinical" with regard to my thyroid and that I should see an endocrinologist. I didn't know what she meant at the time by "subclinical" so I just repeated it to my internist. The internist, who had a reputation for being very good and caring etc., arrogantly told me that there was no such thing and that I didn't have a thyroid problem period. Unfortunately, due to my HMO, I needed a referral from my internist in order to see a specialist. Luckily, because my psychiatrist wanted it, the internist gave in and gave me the referral. The endocrinologist felt my thyroid gland (it was enlarged and an immediate sign of possible Hashimotos). He then did a simple blood test for antibodies and he diagnosed me with the condition and put me on thyroxin. A report was sent back to my internist. Unfortunately, I didn't go back to that doctor again. I regret to this day that I didn't go back there and gloat about it. I should have made sure that she saw the report so that she would get her act together and get more informed about it and not leave any other people (not lucky enough to have a shrink who fought for them) untreated.You hadn't told me that. But I can't say that I am surprised. I have my share of doctor stories. Like one time I got something in my eye, and the doctor couldn't find it so he started asking me things like, "Do you get paid time off for doctor's visits?" (the answer was NO). Heaven forbid he should just admit that there was something there that he just couldn't find. Oh, it did dislodge later that day. I think it was clear glass or plastic. Funny how even though he couldn't help me, I still had to pay the bill. And then there are the HMO stories... (((just shaking my head))) I wonder how many more sick people are out there untreated because their doctors told them they were "fine"... Sorry for the cynicism.
As always, fun "chatting" with you.
Simus
Posted by KaraS on August 30, 2004, at 0:40:55
In reply to Re: Adrenal Fatigue Treatment Article - Simus » KaraS, posted by Simus on August 29, 2004, at 23:10:34
> > > Hey, tonight I took all my magnesium later than usual and I actually nodded off for a while at 10:00PM! Of course when my husband came in and turned on the light and football game loud enough to hear in the next room and then started talking to me, for some reason I woke up. I wonder what the doctor could give me for that??? A big stick? LOL (Thank goodness he's cute.)
> >
> > For cute I could put up with a little noise...
>
> Yeah, but he plays that trump card a lot... LOLDon't they all???? (the cute ones, that is)
> > > > Yeah, that's true. I ordered some stuff "Candida Cleanse" or something like that from NOW brand. I was planning on starting that and the diet at some point in the future. If I can discipline myself enough, maybe I'll do it sooner rather than later.
> > >
> > > I wonder what is in it...
> >
> > Actually it's called "Candida Clear". There are lots of these kinds of products out there. Your doctor probably knows of better one(s) but this has Caprylic Acid, Pau D'Arco, Black Walnut and Oregano Oil in it.
>
> I will let you know what she says.
>
> > > I'm glad that the interview thing didn't get you down. As far as my looking for a job... On the "good" days it seems like a REALLY good idea, and on the "not-so-good" days I am very grateful I don't have to either call in sick or drag myself into work feeling like that.
> >
> > Why push yourself if you don't have to until you're at least 95% ready? Let yourself heal if you can!
>
> Yeah, I know. But I still miss the people and the satisfaction (and the paycheck).Did you work with nice people? I have worked places where the people were wonderful and also places where I would give anything never to see those people again. So I guess it all depends on whether you have good luck or not.
> > > > That's one of the few differences I can see other than that bladder-wrecking herb.) Either way, we're both going to be supporting the vitamin and herb industry!!
> >
> > Ok, so nobody like my joke about the bladderwrack herb?
>
> I DID! Actually, I had serious misgivings based on the name. I have had one or two UTIs, and I know the feeling. LOLLeave it to Larry to give us the exact name derivation. That does take some of the fear out of it though.
> > > Yeah, but they are supporting us too. Thank God for natural means of getting healthy instead of just continuing to drug ourselves to bandaid the symptoms!
> >
> > I'll drink to that! (And we should add not having to deal with ingnorant, condescending mainstream doctors when it comes to these types of conditions.)
>
> Not to mention how much we pay to be treated like that!
>
> Take care,
>
> Simus
>
Posted by KaraS on August 30, 2004, at 1:15:29
In reply to Re: Adrenal Fatigue Treatment Article - Simus » KaraS, posted by Simus on August 29, 2004, at 23:30:27
> > > > > LOL She just won't admit to it now since you didn't invite her to the Alps too.
> > > >
> > > > Oh, now you were "invited"???? You told me you crashed their party. I don't know what to believe from you anymore, Simus. (LOL)
> > >
> > > OK, "invited" is stretching it a bit. Bribing the concierge for the room number and crawling in under the room service cart wouldn't exactly be considered "invited", would it? HeHe
> >
> > OK, I guess I forgive you. Desperate people sometimes do desperate things. Besides, I think it's Larry and Gabbix2 that you owe the apologies to. If I were them, I'd hire body guards next time to make sure they're safe from the likes of you!!!
>
> (Head hung in shame.) Sorry Lar and Gabbix2.
Poor Gabbix2's computer died. Lar will have to relay the message. (This means we won't be getting much more info on them in the near future. You know how tight-lipped that Larry can be! He seems to think only he has a right to that information!)
> You hadn't told me that. But I can't say that I am surprised. I have my share of doctor stories. Like one time I got something in my eye, and the doctor couldn't find it so he started asking me things like, "Do you get paid time off for doctor's visits?" (the answer was NO). Heaven forbid he should just admit that there was something there that he just couldn't find. Oh, it did dislodge later that day. I think it was clear glass or plastic. Funny how even though he couldn't help me, I still had to pay the bill. And then there are the HMO stories... (((just shaking my head))) I wonder how many more sick people are out there untreated because their doctors told them they were "fine"... Sorry for the cynicism.
"Don't know" isn't in their vocabulary. If they can't figure it out, it has to be that you are a scammer or a malingerer. Please don't apologize for the cynicism. I'm one of the most cynical and jaded people you'll ever meet. At least I think I am until something shocks me and then I think I've been totally naive. Your doctor story doesn't surprise me either. My depression doctor stories are the worst. The first one I went to was a GP. This was when I first got to a point where I was getting panic attacks and couldn't function. She gave me a handful of antidpressant samples and said "be your own detective". She recommended trying the Elavil first. It was a 75 mg. pill. It sedated me so much that I slept for about 3 days straight. If a fire had started in my building, I could not have gotten out. This is not to mention that this doctor didn't know me at all and I could easily have taken all of those pills at once and committed suicide.My next doctor was back in my hometown. He was a new neighbor of my mother's. I spoke to him on the phone before setting up an appointment. He treated me like a child and threatened me that if I didn't stop crying, he have to hospitalize me. He told my mother that my problem was that I was a young girl alone in the world trying to make my way. I was too dysfunctional at the time to tell him where to go but fortunately I was functional enough to seek help elsewhere.
The next doctor was kindly but odd. He spent our hour trying to fix me up with his son!!! Fortunately by this point, I had done my homework. I told this doctor what medication I wanted and how I wanted to build up on it. He gave that to me. It worked for the panic/anxiety (though I still had some depression) and I continued to humor him throughout our next few visits. I was in my early twenties then so that set the stage for me not having a lot of faith in doctors. I see them as a tool. Some are better tools than others but you absolutely have to be your own advocate or else you'd better get very lucky and find a really outstanding one.
Ok, I'll stop ranting now. Speaking of good doctors, when do you get your test results back? I'm really curious to hear what they are and to hear about the rest of the treatments she has in store for you. If she does put you on a Candida diet, there's a good book I can recommend. It has all kinds of recipes in it - which you'll need. Otherwise the diet can get really boring.
> As always, fun "chatting" with you.
>
> Simus
Fun "chatting" with you too.Kara
Posted by Simus on August 30, 2004, at 1:41:18
In reply to Re: Adrenal Fatigue Treatment Article - Simus » Simus, posted by KaraS on August 30, 2004, at 0:40:55
> Did you work with nice people? I have worked places where the people were wonderful and also places where I would give anything never to see those people again. So I guess it all depends on whether you have good luck or not.
I worked with some of the best... bright, funny, kind, high level of integrity... I do miss them...
Posted by KaraS on August 30, 2004, at 2:57:41
In reply to Re: Adrenal Fatigue Treatment Article - Simus » KaraS, posted by Simus on August 30, 2004, at 1:41:18
> > Did you work with nice people? I have worked places where the people were wonderful and also places where I would give anything never to see those people again. So I guess it all depends on whether you have good luck or not.
>
> I worked with some of the best... bright, funny, kind, high level of integrity... I do miss them...
Boy, were you lucky! I can see why you would miss them and work so much.
Posted by KaraS on August 30, 2004, at 15:26:13
In reply to Re: Adrenal Fatigue Treatment Article - Simus » Simus, posted by KaraS on August 30, 2004, at 2:57:41
BTW, did your new doctor mention anything to you about which brands to take or which to avoid? or what form the supplements should be in (i.e. capsules, pills, tinctures)? I want to order ginkgo, licorice and possibly some Siberian Ginseng (Eleuthero) but I'm not sure at all what to order.
I probably should join Consumerlab.com. If I were working full-time now, I wouldn't hesitate. They rate these types of things and have all kinds of consumer alerts for recalls etc. They would probably have answers to at least some of my quality type questions.
Posted by Simus on August 30, 2004, at 15:54:32
In reply to Re: Adrenal Fatigue Treatment - also Simus » KaraS, posted by KaraS on August 30, 2004, at 15:26:13
> BTW, did your new doctor mention anything to you about which brands to take or which to avoid? or what form the supplements should be in (i.e. capsules, pills, tinctures)? I want to order ginkgo, licorice and possibly some Siberian Ginseng (Eleuthero) but I'm not sure at all what to order.
>
> I probably should join Consumerlab.com. If I were working full-time now, I wouldn't hesitate. They rate these types of things and have all kinds of consumer alerts for recalls etc. They would probably have answers to at least some of my quality type questions.Oddly enough, she didn't. Maybe it was because she approved of the brands/forms I am taking... I have always wondered about the brand/form issue myself.
Simus
Posted by Simus on August 30, 2004, at 22:55:55
In reply to Re: Adrenal Fatigue Treatment Article - Simus, posted by KaraS on August 30, 2004, at 1:15:29
> > > > > > LOL She just won't admit to it now since you didn't invite her to the Alps too.
> > > > >
> > > > > Oh, now you were "invited"???? You told me you crashed their party. I don't know what to believe from you anymore, Simus. (LOL)
> > > >
> > > > OK, "invited" is stretching it a bit. Bribing the concierge for the room number and crawling in under the room service cart wouldn't exactly be considered "invited", would it? HeHe
> > >
> > > OK, I guess I forgive you. Desperate people sometimes do desperate things. Besides, I think it's Larry and Gabbix2 that you owe the apologies to. If I were them, I'd hire body guards next time to make sure they're safe from the likes of you!!!
> >
> > (Head hung in shame.) Sorry Lar and Gabbix2.
>
>
> Poor Gabbix2's computer died. Lar will have to relay the message. (This means we won't be getting much more info on them in the near future. You know how tight-lipped that Larry can be! He seems to think only he has a right to that information!)Hmmm... Most interesting... Her computer just happened to die right around the time she started sharing Lar's secrets? LOL
> > You hadn't told me that. But I can't say that I am surprised. I have my share of doctor stories. Like one time I got something in my eye, and the doctor couldn't find it so he started asking me things like, "Do you get paid time off for doctor's visits?" (the answer was NO). Heaven forbid he should just admit that there was something there that he just couldn't find. Oh, it did dislodge later that day. I think it was clear glass or plastic. Funny how even though he couldn't help me, I still had to pay the bill. And then there are the HMO stories... (((just shaking my head))) I wonder how many more sick people are out there untreated because their doctors told them they were "fine"... Sorry for the cynicism.
>
>
> "Don't know" isn't in their vocabulary. If they can't figure it out, it has to be that you are a scammer or a malingerer. Please don't apologize for the cynicism. I'm one of the most cynical and jaded people you'll ever meet. At least I think I am until something shocks me and then I think I've been totally naive. Your doctor story doesn't surprise me either. My depression doctor stories are the worst. The first one I went to was a GP. This was when I first got to a point where I was getting panic attacks and couldn't function. She gave me a handful of antidpressant samples and said "be your own detective". She recommended trying the Elavil first. It was a 75 mg. pill. It sedated me so much that I slept for about 3 days straight. If a fire had started in my building, I could not have gotten out. This is not to mention that this doctor didn't know me at all and I could easily have taken all of those pills at once and committed suicide.Wow. Just as a side note, my pastor always tell us to pray over all medicine before we take it. He says it isn't a coincidence that doctors only claim to "practice" medicine. LOL Boy, do I feel "practiced" on.
> My next doctor was back in my hometown. He was a new neighbor of my mother's. I spoke to him on the phone before setting up an appointment. He treated me like a child and threatened me that if I didn't stop crying, he have to hospitalize me. He told my mother that my problem was that I was a young girl alone in the world trying to make my way. I was too dysfunctional at the time to tell him where to go but fortunately I was functional enough to seek help elsewhere.Wow. Wow.
> The next doctor was kindly but odd. He spent our hour trying to fix me up with his son!!! Fortunately by this point, I had done my homework. I told this doctor what medication I wanted and how I wanted to build up on it. He gave that to me. It worked for the panic/anxiety (though I still had some depression) and I continued to humor him throughout our next few visits. I was in my early twenties then so that set the stage for me not having a lot of faith in doctors. I see them as a tool. Some are better tools than others but you absolutely have to be your own advocate or else you'd better get very lucky and find a really outstanding one.Sheesh! You are absolutely right about being your own advocate!
> Ok, I'll stop ranting now. Speaking of good doctors, when do you get your test results back? I'm really curious to hear what they are and to hear about the rest of the treatments she has in store for you. If she does put you on a Candida diet, there's a good book I can recommend. It has all kinds of recipes in it - which you'll need. Otherwise the diet can get really boring.
I think I will be going back in about 2 weeks. I am still battling a few symptoms from the viral(?) "yuckies" that started last week, and I am just now starting to get back on my vitamins. So I haven't tried any of the new things yet. I want to be able to feel "normal" enough to tell if I am having a negative reaction from anything she gave me. Wow. It would be awesome if I felt like a normal, active human being again someday (soon).
God bless,
Simus
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