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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by GabaGirl on March 21, 2004, at 11:34:03
Hi:
I've been reading Syd Baumel's book "Dealing with Depression Naturally" and more specifically am diagnosed with bipolar which he addresses thankfully. Others before him like Rita Elkin did not, just depression, and as we know now bipolar depression is almost a whole other issue to be treated more carefully.
But both he and my new pdoc recommend adding magnesium for mood regulation. Ironically I had just started a new diet including more nuts and seeds which are high in magnesium prior to my doctor suggesting this. Yesterday at her suggestion I also started a magnesium/calcium supplement.
It's too soon to tell much, but I'm hopeful it will help. My question is if others have tried magnesium, what form, what dosage, and if they have found it helpful. And is it a problem to take with Calcium?
Additionally I am on Neurontin, 1800 mg per day, and Zyprexa 2.5-7 mg per day, supplementing with a high fish, fruit and vegetable diet, fish oil --just ordered a bottle of Carlson's Finest as my Costco discount brand is not so good for EPA -- and taking a high potency multivitamin and B-Complex off and on, as needed. Also I may try Inositol soon. But that is another thread altogether!
But my questions again: With magnesium, do others take it by itself or with calcium? The advice is confusing about calcium and bipolar. On the one hand I may need extra calcium at my age -- nearly 40 -- and being female, plus it works well with magnesium. On the other hand calcium may be contraindicated for depression and bipolar according to Baumel's cited research.
Just curious though about other's experience with this supplement and whether to take it alone or with calcium, plus what forms are most easily absorbed and effective.
Best,
GabaGirl
Posted by Tim Lebzelter on March 23, 2004, at 12:09:35
In reply to Magnesium by itself or with Calcium?, posted by GabaGirl on March 21, 2004, at 11:34:03
Mg Glycinate or Mg Taurate alone without calcium especially if you are a dariy consumer. You most likely have much more calcium in your body than Mg and you need to balance things out. I have anxiety and depression and I just tried L-Tryptophan recently and it works so great I cant believe it! I also take Mg Glycinate(100-200mg a day, brain lightning(brainlightning.com), etc. GOOD LUCK. If you try Trypt dont take your meds that day or ever with it.
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 24, 2004, at 19:02:39
In reply to Magnesium by itself or with Calcium?, posted by GabaGirl on March 21, 2004, at 11:34:03
> I've been reading Syd Baumel's book "Dealing with Depression Naturally"...
I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature at this site:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon
The first time anyone refers to a book without using this option, I post this to try to make sure he or she at least knows about it. It's just an option, though, and doesn't *have* to be used. If people *choose* not to use it, I'd be interested why not, but I'd like that redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7717.html
Thanks!
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 25, 2004, at 18:16:03
In reply to Magnesium by itself or with Calcium?, posted by GabaGirl on March 21, 2004, at 11:34:03
> Just following up on the double quotes suggestion. Yep, I'm a newbie and did not know about that feature. I'll try to remember it for future posts!
>
> The book in question: "Dealing with Depression Naturally" is the best I've found thus far on alternative/complimentary meds specifically for depression, but that it mentions bipolar numerous times is incredible. Still it does not go into enough detail for me. Yet all other similar books I've looked at are even less inclusive and comprehensive, or like Balch's "Prespription for Nutritional Healing" present "misinformation" on certain conditions, bipolar in particular. Any suggestions for good books on nutrition and depression/bipolar that may be more comprehensive and reliable? Still searching, none found.
>
> Thanks!
>
> GabaGirl
Posted by hugo on April 17, 2004, at 16:16:08
In reply to Re: nutrition and depression/bipolar « GabaGirl, posted by Dr. Bob on March 25, 2004, at 18:16:03
Hey!
Don't forget "The Mood Cure" by Julia Ross.
Take care,
Hugo
Posted by david smith2 on April 22, 2004, at 8:59:01
In reply to Magnesium by itself or with Calcium?, posted by GabaGirl on March 21, 2004, at 11:34:03
For info about nutrition-related depression see: acu-cell.com and: biopsychiatry.com/dhaomega.htm and on the same site:/zinc.html
Posted by mistermindmasta on April 22, 2004, at 10:36:20
In reply to Magnesium by itself or with Calcium?, posted by GabaGirl on March 21, 2004, at 11:34:03
I think you need good levels of magnesium and vitamin D in order to adequately absorb calcium. That way, you won't need as much calcium in supplement form. I personally think one can obtain perfect calcium intake through green veggies and the like. Certain asian cultures got by fine this way for thousands of years. Humans don't need cows or goats in order to not break bones as they get old - at least thats what i think. Why would evolution design us so that our bodies need extra calcium in older age? Might it just be that we don't get as much magnesium and vitamin D as evolution designed us to get?
I indeed believe that calcium is VERY bad for anyone with a mood disorder. I might be wrong in my research understandings, but I think excess calcium in neurons is what leads to excitotoxicity - something that happens in depression, schizophrenia, anxiety and bipolar. Generally, we have lower metabolic activity in certain brain structures which is presumed to be from glutamate induced excitotoxic cell death. Luckily, these cells can grow back - which is what happens when one takes an AP, AD or Bipolar med. Calcium is what we want to have less of - the less calcium flux into the cell, the less cell death - or so it might seem. The anecdotal evidence is there, supporting the fact that people with mood disorders generally get worse w. calcium.
On the other hand, magnesium indeed might be able to regulate some of negative actions of calcium, as it seems to be of benefit in mood disorders. I definitely think ppl w. mood disorders need extra magnesium - and it might (?) not be noticable until several days of continuous use.
FYI, calcium DEFINITELY DEFINITELY is no good for me. I feel very sluggish, very depressed, etc. I don't know why my body can't handle it exactly beyond the reasons i stated above. No calcium for me! I'll get it through diet.
Posted by GabaGirl on April 22, 2004, at 12:08:02
In reply to Re: Magnesium by itself or with Calcium?, posted by mistermindmasta on April 22, 2004, at 10:36:20
Thanks! I first did try a calcium/magnesium supplement, but now am switching to a magnesium and trace mineral liquid supplement. It tastes terrible, btw! But too soon to tell if it is working well for me as I just started it this weekend.
Anyone try inositol? I've had to take lower amounts of it, but find it effective in gaining energy and aleviating depression, somewhat. Still may need my Prozac though!
I'm taking the powdered form at only a little over a gram in the morning, and then sometimes another gram in the afternoon. Afraid of it activating hypomania, as I am bp, but that's an unfortunate risk for me at this time of year!!
I may be able to increase the Inositol later in the fall and winter when I am typically at my most depressed as they used up to 12 grams, and sometimes more, in clinical trials with it.
Anyone taking inositol with choline? Wonder if that might be better for me presently in combo due to the risk of cycling upwards.
Best,
GabaGirl
Posted by noa on April 24, 2004, at 7:55:37
In reply to Re: nutrition and depression/bipolar, posted by hugo on April 17, 2004, at 16:16:08
"Managing Your Mind and Mood Through Food"
by Judith J. Wurtman
This is the end of the thread.
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