![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 12, 2004, at 8:15:47
In reply to Anyone give up meds and go with herbs/supp.?, posted by rainbowlight on March 8, 2004, at 22:04:34
> I am wondering which herbs/supplements anyone has had any luck with. I am pretty knowledgable in their regard but would like to see what others have used?
Posted by CarolW on March 12, 2004, at 19:57:31
In reply to Anyone give up meds? « rainbowlight, posted by Dr. Bob on March 12, 2004, at 8:15:47
Well, the supplements become trial and error based on your own individual needs. I take SAMe twice a day, L-Theanine (another amino acid), vitamin/mineral supplements (heavy on the calcium/magnesium, B-vitamins), fish oil, etc... You have to get the highest grade of supplements (I get mine from naturopathic physician). Metagenics and USANA supplements are closest to pharmaceutical grade. Honestly, my depression and anxiety are down - but not gone. Probably about 60% better. I still struggle with staying asleep at night (I wake up too early) and haven't found a remedy for that. I also recommend not having a lot of sugar and starch in your diet - or caffeine. And, I seem to need to exercise at least 45 minutes each day to keep the seratonin levels steady in my head.
But, for me, the side effects of the anti-depressants and sedatives were really bad. So, I've had to find alternatives. But, everybody is unique.
Posted by Margit on March 13, 2004, at 4:46:32
In reply to Anyone give up meds? « rainbowlight, posted by Dr. Bob on March 12, 2004, at 8:15:47
At the beginning of the year, I started taking a
- multivitamin/mineral
- extra selenium
- niacinamide 100mg
- magnesium glycinate 400mg
- calcium glycinate 500mg
- fish oil 1.8 grams of EPA/DHA combined
- extra boron
- Vitamin B12, 500mg (the methyl form)
- taurine 100mgI also went back to eating right again
no processed foods
no sugar
no caffeine
no wheatI was able to cut my AD in half since last week. No withdrawals either.
My goal is to be eventually AD free. I suffer from PD and depression and have been on meds on and off for the past 25 years.
I have also been to the Pfeiffer treatment center 2 weeks ago in order to find an alternative approach to deal with this. I have to wait though on the test results (about another 3-4 weeks).
I had done the nutritional and vitamin approach in the past, but didn't seem to help. The only new variables were the fish oil, taurine, magnesium and calcium.
Posted by sjb on March 15, 2004, at 14:24:16
In reply to Re: Anyone give up meds?, posted by Margit on March 13, 2004, at 4:46:32
Count me in. I just go back from a new PDoc who prescribed Risperdal and I started crying as soon as I read the insert. I know all meds can have unpleasant side effects, but I'm just too freaked to try another atypical, esp. since I've put on too much weight in the last couple of months. The ones I tried before just made things worse. So. . .your advice is good and I KNOW I have to improve my diet, but how do you cut down on the crap food when you have overwhelming cravings for them???
Right now, I feel so all alone and feel I have no safety blanket. I don't know who to trust. Every PDoc has diagnosed me differently and I don't know what to do. I'm terrified of trying new meds.
Posted by Cybele on March 19, 2004, at 10:40:29
In reply to Re: Anyone give up meds?, posted by CarolW on March 12, 2004, at 19:57:31
> <snip> And, I seem to need to exercise at least 45 minutes each day to keep the seratonin levels steady in my head.
> But, for me, the side effects of the anti-depressants and sedatives were really bad. So, I've had to find alternatives. But, everybody is unique.I hear you. Exercise is the only antidepressant that has worked for me. Check this out:
http://www.reactivereports.com/21/21_1.htmlTook me years to discover that it needs to be, at minimum, 70% of max. heart rate for 30 minutes straight. Walking 3-4 miles at a 20 minute mile won't cut it; I gotta sweat.
Posted by afatchic on March 29, 2004, at 17:15:48
In reply to Anyone give up meds? « rainbowlight, posted by Dr. Bob on March 12, 2004, at 8:15:47
Yes, I gave up my meds over a year ago. I switched from trazodone & prozac to St John's wort, fish oil, and some really good quality multi-vitamins. The fish oil and other supplements I take are all pharmaceutical grade prescribed by naturopathic docs at Bastyr University (I'm a student).
Unfortunately, I feel terrible! I'm very depressed and I'm frustrated. I believe in natural medicine but it's not working. I'm strongly considering going back on prozac.
> > I am wondering which herbs/supplements anyone has had any luck with. I am pretty knowledgable in their regard but would like to see what others have used?
>
Posted by Laura915 on March 30, 2004, at 9:15:19
In reply to Re: Anyone give up meds?, posted by afatchic on March 29, 2004, at 17:15:48
Don't go back on Prozac. Read my post on the main board re:Klonopin withdrawal. Amino acids were my natural answer and may be yours.
> Yes, I gave up my meds over a year ago. I switched from trazodone & prozac to St John's wort, fish oil, and some really good quality multi-vitamins. The fish oil and other supplements I take are all pharmaceutical grade prescribed by naturopathic docs at Bastyr University (I'm a student).
>
> Unfortunately, I feel terrible! I'm very depressed and I'm frustrated. I believe in natural medicine but it's not working. I'm strongly considering going back on prozac.
>
>
> > > I am wondering which herbs/supplements anyone has had any luck with. I am pretty knowledgable in their regard but would like to see what others have used?
> >
>
>
Posted by sjb on April 5, 2004, at 13:52:45
In reply to Re: Anyone give up meds?, posted by Laura915 on March 30, 2004, at 9:15:19
The alternative stuff ain't doin' much for me either and I feel like a fool taking all these pills. Between the fish oil, SJW, Tyrosine, Glutamine, vitamins, minerals, it's like 20 pills a day. Think the only benefit is to iherb (where I purchased most of my stuff) and a lovely-looking, neon-colored urine.
Posted by mordewis on April 6, 2004, at 17:14:41
In reply to Anyone give up meds? « rainbowlight, posted by Dr. Bob on March 12, 2004, at 8:15:47
You might wish to join my Yahoogroup, ALT-therapies4bipolar. The bunch of us discuss what has worked and not worked for us in the way of alternative therapies. Most of us are totally off medications and doing well. You could also visit my website, http://moss.witchesgathering.com , where I have a summary page of what has been happening to me and what we've learned in ALT-therapies4bipolar, click Mental Health on the menu.
Posted by mordewis on April 16, 2004, at 0:43:45
In reply to Re: Anyone give up meds?, posted by mordewis on April 6, 2004, at 17:14:41
I have posted an update on my website, the things I've been going through since discontinuing the meds. I'd rather not post the whole thing here... go to my website, http://moss.witchesgathering.com , click on Mental Health on the menu, and at the top of the page, click on UPDATE. If it's not there, wait a day, my webhost is switching servers right now and the Net might not point to the current site.
Posted by Marley on April 17, 2004, at 7:00:21
In reply to Re: Anyone give up meds? » CarolW, posted by Cybele on March 19, 2004, at 10:40:29
> I hear you. Exercise is the only antidepressant that has worked for me. Check this out:
> http://www.reactivereports.com/21/21_1.html
>
> Took me years to discover that it needs to be, at minimum, 70% of max. heart rate for 30 minutes straight. Walking 3-4 miles at a 20 minute mile won't cut it; I gotta sweat.
>
Cybele, that's an interesting article. Thanks for posting the website. I'm also really interested in both your and their observation that the exercise may need to get your heart rate to 70% max to have the desired affect. I've been trying to exercise regularly to help manage my mild/moderate depression, and while it definitely does help me cope better, I still struggle. Now I'm curious about paying more attention to my heart rate, and seeing if exercising more vigorously will improve the result.Thanks for sharing your findings!
Posted by Cyleilo on April 20, 2004, at 11:16:04
In reply to Re: Anyone give up meds? » Cybele, posted by Marley on April 17, 2004, at 7:00:21
How do you determine what 70% of your maximum heart rate is?
Posted by Marley on April 21, 2004, at 23:01:16
In reply to Re: Anyone give up meds?, posted by Cyleilo on April 20, 2004, at 11:16:04
> How do you determine what 70% of your maximum heart rate is?
Hi Cyleilo-
I hadn't gotten as far as figuring that out yet. I know a lot of the exercise equipment (treadmill, etc.) at the gym I go to have sensors built into them on the handles that will measure your heart rate. As far as figuring out how to calculate your maximum heart rate (HRMax), I did find a link to a website that contains a discussion by various people on how to determine your maximum heart rate, and from there, you'd take 70%. The link is:
http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?t=3224
One simple way they say you can calculate it is: HRMax = 220 - your age. However, most of the folks seemed to think that was an innacurate method.
Others say you actually have to measure what your heart rate is when you're really exerting yourself hard exercising to determine HRMax, and they gave various suggestions for how to do that.
Then someone else gave something called the Karvonen Method for calculating a target heart rate (like 70% HRMax) as follows:
220 - age - resting heart rate = x
(x * target %) + rhr = target heart rate
Example:
220 - 30 (age) - 50 (rhr) = 140
140 * 70% + 50 = 148 (thr)I hope this helps!
Posted by guttersnipe on April 22, 2004, at 3:38:32
In reply to Anyone give up meds? « rainbowlight, posted by Dr. Bob on March 12, 2004, at 8:15:47
Yes, I went odd the meds a few months ago (prescription meds that is) -- and I am now on a handful of supplements.
A few months ago I titered down from 300 mg Effexor XR/day over the course of between 3 and 4 weeks (the Effexor put me in an almost continual mixed state of being agitated and irritiable and hypomanic, but also being depressed). I quit Buspar/buspirone without tapering off, as I had noticed over the past couple years that it didn't affect me one way or another). Over the course of about a week, I tapered off from 1 mg lorazepam/Ativan twice a day to keeping a few in the medicine cabinet in case I need to maintain composure and a calm demeanor for some work-related reason.
Going off Effexor was awful -- the withdrawal was worse than kicking heroin or nicotine, each of which I quit after being physically and psychologically addicted to it. After what I thought was finished (and maybe the withdrawl effect was finished), I rapic-cycled to high and low extremes for about 2 weeks.
I had been taking a multivitamin, a B complex, and 5-HTP -- whch, even if they helped, didn't resolve the problem -- but then a few weeks or so after my last eposide, I went on lithium orotate and after abut 4 days of using that I have felt more stable than I in years.
The other supplements I take (whch have been okayed by my MD who is also knowledgeable about alternative treatments) are:
* Lithium orotate, 3 or 4 per day
* Cannabis (it's legal here, with a doctor's OK) - maybe once a day, or twice -- first, a hit or two of a nice breezy cerebral and colorful high-potency hybrid of primarily Cannabis sativa-dominant plus a bit of indica (mayne 70/30), then after that kicks in, then I'll be ready for the CBD and other cannabonoids that are more present in cannabis indica than in sativa for the full-body high and the spacing out a bit (maybe a 50/50 mix or a 75-35 indica-sativa hybrid or somewhere in between). Marijuana has, over the years, been very helpful at helping to stablize my moods and lift my spirits when depressed. Excessive use, however, -- i.e., being stoned most of the time -- can get in the way of progressing with dealing with the condition).* multi-mineral
* multi-vitamin
* strong B-complex
* taurine
* 5-htp
* magnesium
* theanine (usualy not available at health food stores -- easily accessible over the internet)These have helped me a lot, but it is hard to say which has helped more. My guess is that the loithium orotate plus the marijuana have the biggest effect. I started the lithium orotate a few weeks before the medical marijuana -- the lithium orotate is definitely helpful, but the marijuana is aso very useful at helping me keep an even keel.
I am curious as to what others have to say about the supplements?
Posted by Cyleilo on April 22, 2004, at 9:09:51
In reply to Re: Anyone give up meds?, posted by Marley on April 21, 2004, at 23:01:16
Thanks for the wealth of info on determining 70% of max heart rate. It was very helpful! Here's to aerobic exercise!
Posted by BarbaraCat on April 22, 2004, at 14:37:07
In reply to Anyone give up meds? « rainbowlight, posted by Dr. Bob on March 12, 2004, at 8:15:47
Yes, I am off all meds I was taking on a regular basis to manage BP-II. I was taking lithium and lamictal and prior to that, many years (25) of being on one or another SSRI or TCA. I was also taking clonopin and/or lorezapam and other benzos to manage severe anxiety and large doses (2700mg/day) of gabapentin for fibro pain. I'd occasionally get toasted on wine to manage the anxiety. My dx was bipolar-mixed states, along with fibromyalgia and hypothyroid and PTSD. I was pretty f&**cking miserable for many, many years.
I see a naturopath and do alot of research on this stuff and so would try anything that looked promising to relieve the intense suffering I lived with daily. Along with prescribed meds, I was taking large handfuls of vitamins, antioxidants, fish oil, natural hormones, herbs. I'm aware of many cutting-edge remedies and treatments, and have tried most of them. I try to get enough exercise, but with the fibro, it's real hard. And sometimes exercise is too much for a depleted body. My cortisol levels were very low and all systems were shot. My immune system could not take even the slightest insult. My body could no longer process meds of any kind and even vitamins were turning into an insult. For me, the best natural support was discovering my adrenal reserves and immune system were shot and addressing it. Realizing the physical component was crucial but much more really went on than addressing just the physical.
This past winter, in the midst of a seriously destabilizing time (first anniversary of my Mother's death, two very ill cats, one dying, financial and marital stresses, and a health crisis), I hit the wall. Nothing was working and I felt like I was shattering. If meds weren't working, I was determined to quit and see how it went. I decided to chuck it all and cast my fate to an inner guidance I doubted was even there. I'd been to so many psychiatrists, counselors, naturopaths, psychics, nutitionists, etc., etc. and I was drowning in pain and anguish anyway. No one could help, it seemed, and it was now a show-down between me and Spirit. A do or die.
It was a gradual tapering off all meds and seeking my own healing current. It's been 5 months now since my last lithium/lamictal/lorezapam/nortriptyline brew and I'm slowly regaining my health and sanity in a way that feels like I'm been reassembled. I can't explain all that has happened, but it really did come down to asking for inner guidance and help and then trusting that the grieving, fear, and pain that emerged as I quit meds was real and honorable. It was about finding a way to honor and be with whatever was emerging, painful and roiling as it was. I stayed with a a moderate nutritional/vitamin regimen, but concentrated on eating as pure and fresh foods as possible, drinking alot of clean water, getting enzymes, fresh air, getting to sleep by 11, meditating, praying, and lots and lots of crying. Lifetimes of old pain. The only thing that worked during the intense times was holding on to the safety of the present moment. No matter what was going on in my mind and body, the present moment was always manageable and safe. I could not always stick to this and ended up a few times drinking my brains out just to survive the anxiety and grief. I also took a benzo or a few gabapentin when it was all too much. I'm no masochist. But I felt that this was a process that I had to trust - two steps forward, one back. It got very hairy at times and I didn't think the well of tears would ever stop. A few times I had the bottles of meds in my hand thinking I had to restart or I would damage something irreparably. But I didn't, knowing I could not tamper with this process that needed to happen.
It only recently all started releasing and making deep sense. I'm lucky in that I am not working and have a husband who has emotionally supported me through this intense time. I was able to take the time to go through this process. I also have a very rich inner life, have a long-term meditation practice and have had long chats with very talented healers in other realms. I've always been plugged into other circuits. I say I did this work alone, but I really did it with the help of amazing grace and guidance from sources in the unseen realms. Some would call it raging psychosis, but jeez, the care I received in these realms was alot more loving and effective than my HMO 'health care team' (bah!). So, this spiritual healing orientation was my way to get to the core of my inner distress.
What I realized was that, in my heart of hearts, I felt ultimately doomed and hopeless of ever healing. A deep sense of unworthiness and despair had crystallized over the years, becoming it's own entity of sorts, robbing me of my life force, my joy, my sense of purpose. Nothing was working - this energetic pattern had taken over and I was not even aware of it. I had to go to this extremely scary place, understand it, see how it operated in my life, and come to a place of peace with it. It's been a long and intense process but one I was finally ready for. The meds were keeping the pain and anxiety of all this at bay, but less and less effectively, and finally, not at all. For me, I had to just do the inner work and take care of my body as simply and purely as I knew how. I'm also learning about ways to work with these congealed energetic patterns. So much of it resides in subtle vibrational levels that are more tangible as I become aware of them. But that's another topic for another time.
What I'm saying is that all the nutritional/alternative supplements will help support you in a more natural way than prescription meds, as will seeking a balanced lifestyle. But taking more in and onto our bodies is not the answer. The answer comes about by doing less, and listening to the healing wisdom inside. The answer lies deeper than our physical bodies' needs, although our bodies and brains must also be nourished. Most of us here have been in painful dark places and have known oceans of pain in our souls. It is from this level that the healing takes place - while concurrently lovingly caring for the physical body. How this happens for you is your path. By all means, seek help wherever you trust. Meds can even provide ongoing support, but ultimately, only to support the deeper core work that your soul must guide to through. For this to occur, you have to simplify, and clear the gunk out of the channels. Again, it might even be wise to stay on meds until other forms of toxic habits are released and repatterned. Gaining body/mind clarity is the goal.
BTW, drink lots and lots of pure water. Whatever your weight is, divide by two and that's how many ounces of water to drink every day. Make sure you're elimination is working. Very important. There's toxins that need to be dumped. Do without stuff that you know is placing burdens on your body - sugar, caffeine, alcohol. Give it a rest. You know what I'm talking about. On a purely physical basis, my theory is our adrenals are blown out. Find out your cortisol levels and if you need to supplement with a natural form of hydrocortisol. I'm working with my naturopath on this and it really is the bedrock of the physical level suppport for me.
I still get depressed and at wits' end. I still on occasion pop a benzo when things get really rough. I still have to take an Ambien when I can't get to sleep. Again, I'm no masochist - God gave us chemicals for a reason. But there is arising a sense of peace and acceptance within it all that is shining through into all aspects. I've walked through those dark places, made peace with them, and now they evoke curiosity and respect instead of fear. It's been a radical shift. I've had some very intense things come up recently, but this peace and curiosity have remained, with the knowledge that I can take anything as long as I stay grounded in the NOW. I'm no longer 'bipolar, mixed-states' who needs meds to function but simply a hurting soul who is in the process of clearing out and healing on all levels, and finally enjoying it. - BarbaraCat
Posted by Nemo2 on May 30, 2004, at 13:20:04
In reply to Re: Anyone give up meds? - YES!, posted by BarbaraCat on April 22, 2004, at 14:37:07
BarbaraCat,
First, I'm a 54 year old man who has been struggling with depression and digestive nightmares and major career and personal problems for the last 4 or 5 years. I'm gaining more ground recently than I'm losing. 2 steps forward and 1 step back.
Thanks for sharing your journey. Living in the NOW is one point that you made to repeat over and over. I recently read Thich Nhat Hanh's book about Buddhism and Christianity and came away with one key anchor. Mindfulness is my goal. To practice it. Living in this moment. Thinking about this brought to memory a John Denver song called "Sweet Surrender" which helped me through some very difficult life problems in 1986-1990.
............................
Lost and alone on some forgotten highway
Traveled by many, remembered by fewLookin' for something that I can believe in
Lookin' for something that I'd like to do with my lifeThere's nothing that ties me
And nothing that binds me
To something that might have been true yesterdayTomorrow is open and right now it seems
To be more than enough
To just be here today.................And I don't know what the future is holding in store.....I don't know where I'm going and I'm not sure where I've been
THERE'S A SPIRIT THAT GUIDES ME
A LIGHT THAT SHINES FOR MEMY LIFE IS WORTH THE LIVING AND
I DON'T NEED TO SEE THE END
.........................I don't need to set expectations and goals as much as I just need to take care of myself at my own pace and live in the moment. I don't need to see the end. The joy is in the journey. Aspire only to the process and enjoy the quality of it. I try not to care much about what happens at the end.
I am in the early stages of finding good results with amino acid supplements and stay away from sugar, alcohol and caffiene as much as I can, but not completely. I work out (running and lifting) 3 or 4 times a week. Just when I feel good about it, which is not every day. I'm not a masochist, as you put it so well.
I tried Lexapro for 11 weeks and learned how bad SSRI's are for my own situation. Each to his own.
Your post was very inspirational to me and I thank you for it.
Nemo2
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 31, 2004, at 16:46:35
In reply to Re: Anyone give up meds? - YES!, posted by Nemo2 on May 30, 2004, at 13:20:04
Dear Nemo,
Thanks so much for your post. 'Sweet Surrender' happens to be one of my favorite songs of all times and I appreciate getting the lyrics to it.I'm having a bit of a down day. Nothing too awful, just tired, a little sick feeling and verging on weepy - just want to live Life with alot more fulfillment and joy instead of carrying this heavy feeling all the time. So I hope you don't mind some philosophical meandering in answer to your post.
Yes, living mindfully and continuing to reign in our poor terrified egos is the real practice here in this life. Surrendering to the Unknowable and giving thanks for it all. Hard, but what else can we do? All my railing against the unfairness of it all doesn't help the situation one bit. My attitude has to heal along with my body, and there's the real challenge.
It you're not familiar with Eckhart Tolle who wrote 'The Power of Now', by all means, add him to your reading list. He's also done a few talks on tape/CS, all of which are great. He went through horrible anxiety and depression most of his life and came out the other side. Pema Chodrum, a very down to earth US-born Buddhist nun is very worth checking out as well. These two were of huge support to me in the last few years - encouragement to just be with it as the highest spiritual practice of all, saying 'Yes' to the Unknowable - Sweet Surrender.
Glad you're doing what you can to heal on all levels. Keeping healthy (minimum substances, lotsa exercise and healthy lifestyle) is essential to getting well - gotta give ourselves a fighting chance. It's difficult to keep on a mindful track when the body/brain is distracted with pain. Oh boy, the craving to take something, anything to feel better NOW! - even when we know it's gonna cause trouble tomorrow.
I keep thinking of Frodo and Sam's journey with the Ring. We're all dealing with our Rings in a quest just as harrowing and important in our own personal world's survival. Why we're doing this, who knows, but that's how it is and, like Gandalf says, it seems to be about doing our best with this time we've been given. I try to keep this in mind when I feel really sh*tty and just wanna screw it.
Please keep us posted with your amino trials. I'm trying to stick to one at a time now for experiment purposes. So far, Tyrosine is a good one - and it's good for hypothyroidism which I have, but I have to watch for too much activation. I jump onto so many bandwagons attempting to feel better and end up having no idea what's doing what. There's got to be a better way than causing further suffering from the side effects of psych meds.
I'm currently doing a detox from very high mercury levels. I suspect this mercury thing has been at the root of my inability to sustain any positive therapeutic results from meds or nutrition, and has been a key player in my fibromyalgia. Until I get this nasty entrenched stuff out of me, I believe I'll continue to bump up against and resonate with the same old darkness. As I detox from it and feel the deep cellular pain and static move (and hopefully move out), I get to know the wily ways of this Mercury energy.
Wouldn't it be great to have a nice long stretch of feeling absolutely fantastic, just to retrain the brain into remembering what that's like again? There's so much beauty, wonder, fascination in this life, and I long to really get this, to not be cut off from it, even if physical and mental discomfort are the cards I'm dealt. Thanks for listening. I feel better having expressed some of this. - Barbara
> Thanks for sharing your journey. Living in the NOW is one point that you made to repeat over and over. I recently read Thich Nhat Hanh's book about Buddhism and Christianity and came away with one key anchor. Mindfulness is my goal. To practice it. Living in this moment. Thinking about this brought to memory a John Denver song called "Sweet Surrender" which helped me through some very difficult life problems in 1986-1990.
>
> ............................
> Lost and alone on some forgotten highway
> Traveled by many, remembered by few
>
> Lookin' for something that I can believe in
> Lookin' for something that I'd like to do with my life
>
> There's nothing that ties me
> And nothing that binds me
> To something that might have been true yesterday
>
> Tomorrow is open and right now it seems
> To be more than enough
> To just be here today..........
>
> .......And I don't know what the future is holding in store.....I don't know where I'm going and I'm not sure where I've been
>
> THERE'S A SPIRIT THAT GUIDES ME
> A LIGHT THAT SHINES FOR ME
>
> MY LIFE IS WORTH THE LIVING AND
> I DON'T NEED TO SEE THE END
> .........................
>
> I don't need to set expectations and goals as much as I just need to take care of myself at my own pace and live in the moment. I don't need to see the end. The joy is in the journey. Aspire only to the process and enjoy the quality of it. I try not to care much about what happens at the end.
>
> I am in the early stages of finding good results with amino acid supplements and stay away from sugar, alcohol and caffiene as much as I can, but not completely. I work out (running and lifting) 3 or 4 times a week. Just when I feel good about it, which is not every day. I'm not a masochist, as you put it so well.
>
> I tried Lexapro for 11 weeks and learned how bad SSRI's are for my own situation. Each to his own.
>
> Your post was very inspirational to me and I thank you for it.
>
> Nemo2
>
>
Posted by Nemo2 on May 31, 2004, at 17:30:50
In reply to Re: Anyone give up meds? - YES! » Nemo2, posted by BarbaraCat on May 31, 2004, at 16:46:35
Hey Barbara,
Pretty neat that you are a fan of "Sweet Surrender". I can't find a John Denver album with the song included so I learned the lyrics and sing it myself when the spirit moves me. I am also a Tolkien fan. Read the Trilogy and The Hobbitt in college in 1970 or so. I love the heroes and villians of it all. Unbelievable what they've done with the films. Great stuff.
Sorry to hear your day is down this Memorial Day. Saturday and Sunday were not so hot for me, but today is good. I think taking DLPA and Tyrosine together are lifting my mood and easing the chronic internal pain I have. Chronic gastritis and colitis, oh boy! I agree with your thoughts about how tough it is to focus on a good attitude when you are in pain, exhausted and it won't go away. I've been anxious all my life and alcohol was my drug of choice. What a wonderful high, even in small doses. What relief from all that ails you.
However, my body started telling me alcohol was very bad for my insides about 5 years ago and I wasn't listening. Now I've mostly gotten out of the habit of it, but it still becons me under certain circumstances and I relent. Always to regret the choice when I'm sore as hell for a few days and all other parts of my life suffer.
One last note on amino therapy: I'm also boosting their absorption and activity with B3 and B6 like the books tell me to do. As you say, what a Godsend compared to the SSRI thing.
Thank you for the tips on the two authors and their writings. I will check them out on the web and probably get the books.
Last night on TV the networks broadcast some very sad stories of families losing soldiers in Iraq. One widow with two small children told her story of losing her husband the boys father. They read a letter he had written "just in case" he was killed. At the end of the letter he asked his wife to do him the favor of hugging the boys and telling them of their father's love for them and then for her to go outside alone in the night and look to the heavens.....and count the stars.
I have often found peace from my own life's sense of loss and anxiety by doing just that. I refer to it as getting in touch with the "Cosmos". I think I started it one night long ago after watching Carl Sagan's video production of his book of the same name. Stuff that always makes me feel refreshed somehow. Thoughts that rejuvinate my spirit. Distract my thoughts and emotions from dwelling on today's problems and localized pain, etc. Makes me think of the joy of just being who I am, warts and all. Getting back to the good things I like and love about myself. Feeling that life is really worth living.
I know you'll keep getting better, Barbara. I love your approach on taking one substance at a time now. I'm amused by your comment on not being able to tell what substance is doing what inside you when you are taking several at the same time. How true. How frustrating to us all.
Damn complicated vehicles these human bodies. I wish life was simple again like when I was about 22 years old and everything worked perfectly no matter what I did to it. No regrets though. I'm working on getting myself in the right place and being honest with me, my wife, my boss and anyone within earshot.
The good news is that much progress has been made in the last 12 months. Let's see where it goes from here. I can tell that is your mind set and it gives me strength to know you are out there.
Nemo2
Posted by BarbaraCat on June 1, 2004, at 1:11:22
In reply to Re: Anyone give up meds? - YES!, posted by Nemo2 on May 31, 2004, at 17:30:50
Dear Nemo,
DLPA, huh? I've heard good things about it but never thought to take it. I've also had severe gastric misery but that's clearing up, thankfully. It's clear that we've gotta work on decent digestion before anything else - otherwise all these fantastic nutrients end up in the porcelain bowl.
While you're researching and experimenting, look into 'methylation'. There are a couple books on the subject, but you can find out plenty by doing a search. Methylation+depression turns up tons of hits. It's pretty fascinating stuff, talks about a harmful amino acid, homocysteine, which is implicated more and more in all kinds of ills, including mood disorders. Many of us apparently have malfunctioning enzyme systems that handle homocysteine. Optimizing methylation helps convert homocysteine into SAM-e, and other good things happen along the way. The following are taken at the same time in the morning before food.
- SAM-e (400mg): (or TMG, trimethylglycine, cheaper and converts to SAM-e and probably is better used in the body). It's amazing stuff, the more I find out about it.
- Folic acid (800mg): I'm discovering that folic acid and the newer assimilable forms of it are key to depression recovery.
- Vitamin B2 - helps the conversions,
- B12 in the methylcobalamin sublilngual form that the brain uses.There's also somewhat confusing stuff about niacin depleting methylation and how some people don't do well on B6. Experimentation.
And of course, fish oil. Hope you're taking fish oil. The more I read about how it works to assist neuron functioning, the better I feel about taking it. I guess this contradicts what I said about doing it slow, one thing at a time. But really, I've cut way back on all the supplements I was chugging. It's taking time to kick in and I go up and down and usually completely forget about the good times when I'm down. I feel better now than I did earlier. It was nice having a day to myself. Just let myself be with feeling crummy, moped around a bit and took a nap. It's taken half a century to learn that All things pass and always will.
Thanks so much for sharing about the soldier, the night sky and talking to Cosmos. Yes, when I'm in connection to that Loving Presence, when I hear that guiding voice - everything feels content and nothing is impossible. I get that feeling when I look at the Hubble space pictures. It's when I lose that connection through the static and mind cloud of depression and anxiety that it gets scary. I isolate from everything and everyone, including my loving and ever-so-patient hubby, and hopelessness sets in. It's damned difficult to trudge that path alone. It's so important to keep the faith by reading good books, keeping good company (even if it's only having a good time with yourself), and having this board to connect to others on this most interesting path. I'm grateful you're out there as well. Keep on shining that light. - Barbara
> Hey Barbara,
>
> Pretty neat that you are a fan of "Sweet Surrender". I can't find a John Denver album with the song included so I learned the lyrics and sing it myself when the spirit moves me. I am also a Tolkien fan. Read the Trilogy and The Hobbitt in college in 1970 or so. I love the heroes and villians of it all. Unbelievable what they've done with the films. Great stuff.
>
> Sorry to hear your day is down this Memorial Day. Saturday and Sunday were not so hot for me, but today is good. I think taking DLPA and Tyrosine together are lifting my mood and easing the chronic internal pain I have. Chronic gastritis and colitis, oh boy! I agree with your thoughts about how tough it is to focus on a good attitude when you are in pain, exhausted and it won't go away. I've been anxious all my life and alcohol was my drug of choice. What a wonderful high, even in small doses. What relief from all that ails you.
>
> However, my body started telling me alcohol was very bad for my insides about 5 years ago and I wasn't listening. Now I've mostly gotten out of the habit of it, but it still becons me under certain circumstances and I relent. Always to regret the choice when I'm sore as hell for a few days and all other parts of my life suffer.
>
> One last note on amino therapy: I'm also boosting their absorption and activity with B3 and B6 like the books tell me to do. As you say, what a Godsend compared to the SSRI thing.
>
> Thank you for the tips on the two authors and their writings. I will check them out on the web and probably get the books.
>
> Last night on TV the networks broadcast some very sad stories of families losing soldiers in Iraq. One widow with two small children told her story of losing her husband the boys father. They read a letter he had written "just in case" he was killed. At the end of the letter he asked his wife to do him the favor of hugging the boys and telling them of their father's love for them and then for her to go outside alone in the night and look to the heavens.....and count the stars.
>
> I have often found peace from my own life's sense of loss and anxiety by doing just that. I refer to it as getting in touch with the "Cosmos". I think I started it one night long ago after watching Carl Sagan's video production of his book of the same name. Stuff that always makes me feel refreshed somehow. Thoughts that rejuvinate my spirit. Distract my thoughts and emotions from dwelling on today's problems and localized pain, etc. Makes me think of the joy of just being who I am, warts and all. Getting back to the good things I like and love about myself. Feeling that life is really worth living.
>
> I know you'll keep getting better, Barbara. I love your approach on taking one substance at a time now. I'm amused by your comment on not being able to tell what substance is doing what inside you when you are taking several at the same time. How true. How frustrating to us all.
>
> Damn complicated vehicles these human bodies. I wish life was simple again like when I was about 22 years old and everything worked perfectly no matter what I did to it. No regrets though. I'm working on getting myself in the right place and being honest with me, my wife, my boss and anyone within earshot.
>
> The good news is that much progress has been made in the last 12 months. Let's see where it goes from here. I can tell that is your mind set and it gives me strength to know you are out there.
>
> Nemo2
This is the end of the thread.
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