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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by loolot on October 26, 2003, at 14:52:10
I have been reading some studies which state that depression and some forms of asthma may be caused by too much seratonin.
For the asthma portion, some asthmatics were tested
for seratonin in their blood plasma. Their levels were a lot higher than the controls.
There is an AD called tianeptine which is supposed to actually cut back on seratonin in the brain.
I think it is in Europe only.
Anyway, since I am afflicted with both conditions I was wondering if anyone else may know anything about this theory, drug, or even any vits one can take too reduce serotonin
Posted by Robert Fairburn on October 26, 2003, at 15:07:31
In reply to excess serotonin= depression, asthma?, posted by loolot on October 26, 2003, at 14:52:10
Laloot are you saying that you have too much serotinin and that is causing your depression. Remeber that catecholamines levels play an imporant role in depression. What are your levels for these like.
Regards Robert> I have been reading some studies which state that depression and some forms of asthma may be caused by too much seratonin.
> For the asthma portion, some asthmatics were tested
> for seratonin in their blood plasma. Their levels were a lot higher than the controls.
> There is an AD called tianeptine which is supposed to actually cut back on seratonin in the brain.
> I think it is in Europe only.
> Anyway, since I am afflicted with both conditions I was wondering if anyone else may know anything about this theory, drug, or even any vits one can take too reduce serotonin
Posted by zeugma on October 27, 2003, at 18:42:11
In reply to Re: excess serotonin= depression, asthma?, posted by Robert Fairburn on October 26, 2003, at 15:07:31
I am really curious about this, because a friend has had recent severe worsening of her asthma, and is taking Lexapro. The only information I have been able to find is that tianeptine relieves asthma. Is the converse also true, that drugs opposite in their action to tianeptine (i.e. SSRI's) worsen asthma? Does anyone have any relevant experiences or information?
Posted by loolot on October 27, 2003, at 21:02:56
In reply to Re: excess serotonin= depression, asthma?, posted by zeugma on October 27, 2003, at 18:42:11
Hi zeugma
Did I read on the other board that you have some autoimmune stuff going on? I cant rememeber if it was you.
Anyway, I have asthma and when I started wellbutrin it was completely healed,then came back when the the wellbutrin started pooping out, then healed completely again with effexor, which kind of counters the lack of serotonin theory , although I am thinking it was the norepinephrine in both cases which did it.
Anyway I cant stand SSRIs so I am curious about this med. I want to order some from an overseas pharmacy because my asthma is getting really bad again and I am also soooo tired all the time,even on straterra and 450 mg of wellbutrin.
I really feel like there is some overriding thing, like an adrenal thing, or something, that is causing all of these problems.
So many theories, though. Makes the head spin
BTW Did your friend's asthma go away or get worse?
Posted by zeugma on October 28, 2003, at 6:50:23
In reply to Re: excess serotonin= depression, asthma? » zeugma, posted by loolot on October 27, 2003, at 21:02:56
> Hi zeugma
> Did I read on the other board that you have some autoimmune stuff going on? I cant rememeber if it was you.
> Anyway, I have asthma and when I started wellbutrin it was completely healed,then came back when the the wellbutrin started pooping out, then healed completely again with effexor, which kind of counters the lack of serotonin theory , although I am thinking it was the norepinephrine in both cases which did it.
> Anyway I cant stand SSRIs so I am curious about this med. I want to order some from an overseas pharmacy because my asthma is getting really bad again and I am also soooo tired all the time,even on straterra and 450 mg of wellbutrin.
> I really feel like there is some overriding thing, like an adrenal thing, or something, that is causing all of these problems.
> So many theories, though. Makes the head spin
> BTW Did your friend's asthma go away or get worse?
>Hi loolot,
I don't have autoimmune problems, as far as I know.
The norepinephrine reuptake theory would make Strattera great for asthma- disappointing that it's not helping. But then it's so complicated- I've heard that long-time use of NE reuptake inhibitors causes a depletion of norepinephrine- but who knows why the drugs really work?
Her asthma is bad these days. She had a similar response to Wellbutrin- it worked great for a couple of months then pooped out. Because of increased depression, she raised the dose of Lexapro recently from 10 to 20 mg a day. The asthma seemed to worsen and that's when I came across the references to tianeptine and asthma. It seems to me that the Lexapro is doing nothing good for her, but the catch-22 of SSRI's is that they can destroy one's motivation to find a better treatment. Her last major asthmatic episode (as far as I know) was about two weeks ago, and from the way she described it, it almost killed her.
Posted by loolot on October 28, 2003, at 10:26:53
In reply to Re: excess serotonin= depression, asthma? » loolot, posted by zeugma on October 28, 2003, at 6:50:23
> Hi loolot,
>
> I don't have autoimmune problems, as far as I know.
>
> The norepinephrine reuptake theory would make Strattera great for asthma- disappointing that it's not helping. But then it's so complicated- I've heard that long-time use of NE reuptake inhibitors causes a depletion of norepinephrine- but who knows why the drugs really work?>>Yeah. I am taking an adrenal supplememnt for support bc I am worried about that. Maybe thats what happened with the wellbutrin. When the norepinephrine wore off, my own supply didnt kick in, hence the asthma.
Geez, maybe your friend should order some tianeptine. There is nothing worse than asthma attacks. It feels like being suffocated, like your head is stuck in a bag and you can get free. Awful.
Posted by jparsell82 on October 31, 2003, at 15:26:21
In reply to Re: excess serotonin= depression, asthma?, posted by loolot on October 28, 2003, at 10:26:53
I just tried Tianeptine a couple months ago. I was kind of excited about it at first because of my negative reaction to SSRI's. I actually just threw it away earlier this week. It may be mildly helpful but I didn't notice a whole lot(Note: I only took it for about a week and a half). By accelerating the uptake of serotonin it makes dopamine & norepinephrine more available. So actually, you could try something that raises dopamine/norepinephrine levels. From my experience breathing is smoother on Deprenyl(Mao-B Inhibitor). By selectively inhibiting only Mao-B it doesn't raise serotonin levels. Deprenyl can also be helpful for a lot of other things.
Posted by loolot on November 1, 2003, at 11:16:19
In reply to Re: excess serotonin= depression, asthma?, posted by jparsell82 on October 31, 2003, at 15:26:21
> I just tried Tianeptine a couple months ago. I was kind of excited about it at first because of my negative reaction to SSRI's. I actually just threw it away earlier this week. It may be mildly helpful but I didn't notice a whole lot(Note: I only took it for about a week and a half). By accelerating the uptake of serotonin it makes dopamine & norepinephrine more available. So actually, you could try something that raises dopamine/norepinephrine levels. From my experience breathing is smoother on Deprenyl(Mao-B Inhibitor). By selectively inhibiting only Mao-B it doesn't raise serotonin levels. Deprenyl can also be helpful for a lot of other things. >>
I have thought about ordering deprenyl. Maybe I will now.
Do you take any other ADs?
Do you have asthma? Is that why you started the tianeptine or was it just bc you didnt have any luck with seratonin enhancing meds?
I did really well on wellbutrin but it pooped out. I am taking amino acids and strattera, now, too, which is okay, but my asthma is coming back.
You didnt notice anything with the tianeptine?
Posted by Larry Hoover on November 2, 2003, at 7:53:31
In reply to excess serotonin= depression, asthma?, posted by loolot on October 26, 2003, at 14:52:10
> I have been reading some studies which state that depression and some forms of asthma may be caused by too much seratonin.
> For the asthma portion, some asthmatics were tested
> for seratonin in their blood plasma. Their levels were a lot higher than the controls.
> There is an AD called tianeptine which is supposed to actually cut back on seratonin in the brain.
> I think it is in Europe only.
> Anyway, since I am afflicted with both conditions I was wondering if anyone else may know anything about this theory, drug, or even any vits one can take too reduce serotonin
You're still left with the question of which came first, the serotonin or the asthma.Earlier this year, I started supplementing with NADH, a very special form of vitamin B3. My asthma and allergies were at the lowest I've had in my entire adult life. I think I used my steroid puffers maybe 10 times all summer, instead of four times a day. I didn't even use an antihistamine.
Another possibility is magnesium deficiency.
Instead of trying drugs, maybe you might try nutrients?
Lar
Posted by loolot on November 2, 2003, at 15:11:37
In reply to Re: excess serotonin= depression, asthma? » loolot, posted by Larry Hoover on November 2, 2003, at 7:53:31
Thanks Larry. Thats encouraging about the NADH. I will give that a try. I am taking mag. supplememnts which do seem to work a bit, but the thing that really knocked my asthma out was wellbutrin then again with effexor. Strange. Before the effexor my asthma was so bad not even prednisone worked, and then when I went on eff.r it completely disappeared.
Unfortunately I hated the effexor otherwise and went off of it.
I think it may be an adrenal thing. Im not sure. I do think supplements help, though
Posted by jparsell82 on November 3, 2003, at 16:33:24
In reply to Re: excess serotonin= depression, asthma? » jparsell82, posted by loolot on November 1, 2003, at 11:16:19
> > I just tried Tianeptine a couple months ago. I was kind of excited about it at first because of my negative reaction to SSRI's. I actually just threw it away earlier this week. It may be mildly helpful but I didn't notice a whole lot(Note: I only took it for about a week and a half). By accelerating the uptake of serotonin it makes dopamine & norepinephrine more available. So actually, you could try something that raises dopamine/norepinephrine levels. From my experience breathing is smoother on Deprenyl(Mao-B Inhibitor). By selectively inhibiting only Mao-B it doesn't raise serotonin levels. Deprenyl can also be helpful for a lot of other things. >>
>
> I have thought about ordering deprenyl. Maybe I will now.
> Do you take any other ADs?
> Do you have asthma? Is that why you started the tianeptine or was it just bc you didnt have any luck with seratonin enhancing meds?
> I did really well on wellbutrin but it pooped out. I am taking amino acids and strattera, now, too, which is okay, but my asthma is coming back.
> You didnt notice anything with the tianeptine?
>
>I honestly didn't really notice anything much on Tianeptine... it might have lowered my stress levels a little bit. But, I was also taking amino acids & vitamins too. I probably should have gave it a longer trial though. I've tried many AD's with not a whole lot of luck. How's strattera? I thought about checking it out.
Posted by tealady on November 4, 2003, at 1:04:24
In reply to Re: excess serotonin= depression, asthma? » Larry Hoover, posted by loolot on November 2, 2003, at 15:11:37
Did you notice any improvement in your asthma when you went on the T3 thyroid meds?
I found thyroid meds (Armour) made mine almost disappear, and so have others
Jan
Posted by loolot on November 4, 2003, at 19:18:13
In reply to Re: excess serotonin= depression, asthma? » loolot, posted by tealady on November 4, 2003, at 1:04:24
I did notice some improvement with the cytomel, youre right. In fact I lowered it a little bit and I think it made my asthma worse.
I worry about my adrenal system, too. NE uptake inhibitors help my asthma but I worry Ill destroy my whole adrenal function over time. Its all very confusing!
How is your asthma now?
Did you ever look into tianeptine?
Posted by tealady on November 4, 2003, at 19:29:37
In reply to Re: excess serotonin= depression, asthma? » tealady, posted by loolot on November 4, 2003, at 19:18:13
> I did notice some improvement with the cytomel, youre right. In fact I lowered it a little bit and I think it made my asthma worse.
> I worry about my adrenal system, too. NE uptake inhibitors help my asthma but I worry Ill destroy my whole adrenal function over time. Its all very confusing!yes, I'm confused about NE and cortisol too..and what happens if I take too much NE.
I'm on tyrosine and thyroid meds , and a pdoc, whom I have little faith in, prescribed Remeron last Thursday..I haven't filled the script yet, and don't think I will, as I was concerned about too much NE...although I wouldn't mind a good antiD right now for a couple of months.I've tried researching but I can't seem to find anything relevant on high NE, or NE/cortisol realtionship.
Oh, I also looked around at posts on Remeron too and EVERYONE seems to gain weight/appetite on it)..I had that with pure T3 .. constantly hungry couldn't turn it off as I should have been able to with a bite(or more) of a high fat/protein, so presumably Remeron would have the same undsired effect
> How is your asthma now?
great, almost gone IF I avoid all triggers <g>
> Did you ever look into tianeptine?
No, I saw folks mention that, but I don't know anything about it? Did you try it? What happened?Jan
Posted by loolot on November 5, 2003, at 17:21:54
In reply to Re: excess serotonin= depression, asthma? » loolot, posted by tealady on November 4, 2003, at 19:29:37
Hi tealady!
I actually found an article on a trial where some patients took reboxetine (NE med) and their morning cortisol levels were raised. However, the article didnt go long term, where eventually cortisol could be lowered because the NE could interrupt the body's own adrenal feedback (someone posted this good guess), like thyroid. This could be a good thing, I guess
I notice I am starting to feel better on straterra (NE reuptake inhibitor) after a few weeks, where at first I wasnt doing too well.
I have heard that Remeron works well for atypical depressives, although I know what you mean about the weight stuff. However, since you are on thyroid supp.s maybe you can keep that stuff at bay.
In some of your earlier messages you sound like you are having a hard time right now, you poor girl. maybe you should give it a go? A low dose?
Did you ever try wellbutrin? I loved that antidepressant while it worked. It was heaven-sent.
Anyway on the med board there is a post about some new ADs coming around the corner that sound very interesting. They work completely differently than the amine stuff. One is RU-486 (scary!), and apparently there is some relationship between its action and inflammatoty health conditions, so maybe it would help with our asthma, allergies (i have terrible sinus problems)
I ordered some Tianeptine but I havent gotten it yet. I am wondering if it will ever come!
My asthma is better on the straterra and supplements though.
Posted by tealady on November 6, 2003, at 17:22:21
In reply to Re: excess serotonin= depression, asthma? » tealady, posted by loolot on November 5, 2003, at 17:21:54
> Hi tealady!
> I actually found an article on a trial where some patients took reboxetine (NE med) and their morning cortisol levels were raised. However, the article didnt go long term, where eventually cortisol could be lowered because the NE could interrupt the body's own adrenal feedback (someone posted this good guess), like thyroid.
Yes, I read where someone said it decreased both cortisol and ACTH...not good for me I think , seeing I was acting like a bit of an adrenal crash last week. Maybe short term, I dunno...
>This could be a good thing, I guess
> I notice I am starting to feel better on straterra (NE reuptake inhibitor) after a few weeks, where at first I wasnt doing too well.
> I have heard that Remeron works well for atypical depressives, although I know what you mean about the weight stuff. However, since you are on thyroid supp.s maybe you can keep that stuff at bay.No the T3 triggers the same effect in me as Remeron does to folks already. I can hold it off with tyrosine..probably the dopamine
I'm still trying to work out the relationship betwen NE and cortisol, I Think you have to raise your cortisol to cope with the raised NE...no idea at all
> In some of your earlier messages you sound like you are having a hard time right now, you poor girl. maybe you should give it a go? A low dose?
Yes, I wouldn't mind something for a while, but I'm getting there> Did you ever try wellbutrin? I loved that antidepressant while it worked. It was heaven-sent.
No, but that one I may have been prepared to try
> Anyway on the med board there is a post about some new ADs coming around the corner that sound very interesting. They work completely differently than the amine stuff. One is RU-486 (scary!), and apparently there is some relationship between its action and inflammatoty health conditions, so maybe it would help with our asthma, allergies (i have terrible sinus problems)
> I ordered some Tianeptine but I havent gotten it yet. I am wondering if it will ever come!
> My asthma is better on the straterra and supplements though.Jan
Posted by loolot on November 6, 2003, at 22:29:34
In reply to Re: excess serotonin= depression, asthma? » loolot, posted by tealady on November 6, 2003, at 17:22:21
> > Hi tealady!
> > I actually found an article on a trial where some patients took reboxetine (NE med) and their morning cortisol levels were raised. However, the article didnt go long term, where eventually cortisol could be lowered because the NE could interrupt the body's own adrenal feedback (someone posted this good guess), like thyroid.
>
>
> Yes, I read where someone said it decreased both cortisol and ACTH...not good for me I think , seeing I was acting like a bit of an adrenal crash last week. Maybe short term, I dunno...
> >>I wonder why you had the crash. How long does it take for cortisol to lower after taking NE, I wonder? Did it say in the article? Im trying to figure out if I feel better bc I have more or less cortisol now. I think I am going to order a cortisol test. Have you had one?
> No the T3 triggers the same effect in me as Remeron does to folks already. I can hold it off with tyrosine..probably the dopamine
>
> I'm still trying to work out the relationship betwen NE and cortisol, I Think you have to raise your cortisol to cope with the raised NE...no idea at all>>Me either. Then there is DHEA, too. It seems to have an inverse relationship to cortisol
Im hoping you are feeling better soon! keep me posted on your new ideas.
Did you decide to do remeron?
Posted by JonL. on March 29, 2004, at 14:58:45
In reply to Re: excess serotonin= depression, asthma? » tealady, posted by loolot on November 6, 2003, at 22:29:34
Loolot,
Did the tianeptine help with your asthma?? If so, what dosage did you take? Thanks!
> > > Hi tealady!
> > > I actually found an article on a trial where some patients took reboxetine (NE med) and their morning cortisol levels were raised. However, the article didnt go long term, where eventually cortisol could be lowered because the NE could interrupt the body's own adrenal feedback (someone posted this good guess), like thyroid.
> >
> >
> > Yes, I read where someone said it decreased both cortisol and ACTH...not good for me I think , seeing I was acting like a bit of an adrenal crash last week. Maybe short term, I dunno...
> > >>
>
> I wonder why you had the crash. How long does it take for cortisol to lower after taking NE, I wonder? Did it say in the article? Im trying to figure out if I feel better bc I have more or less cortisol now. I think I am going to order a cortisol test. Have you had one?
>
> > No the T3 triggers the same effect in me as Remeron does to folks already. I can hold it off with tyrosine..probably the dopamine
> >
> > I'm still trying to work out the relationship betwen NE and cortisol, I Think you have to raise your cortisol to cope with the raised NE...no idea at all>>
>
> Me either. Then there is DHEA, too. It seems to have an inverse relationship to cortisol
> Im hoping you are feeling better soon! keep me posted on your new ideas.
> Did you decide to do remeron?
This is the end of the thread.
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