![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Ron Hill on November 20, 2003, at 1:08:37
Lar,
I’m obtaining good results by taking 400 mg/day of l-theanine to treat my dysphoric mood states (i.e.; extreme irritability). As you know, these dysphoric mood states are associated with my bipolar II disorder. I started the l-theanine trial only about a month ago, so it’s too early to speculate regarding long term efficacy. But so far I like it.
L-theanine releases GABA and dopamine, and lowers cortisol. The GABA provides pretty good relief for my dysphoric mood states and the (small?) dopamine release partially treats the low motivation associated with the atypical depressive component of my bipolar disorder. For me, the dopamine effect from l-theanine is not nearly as profound as the initial dopamine effect I experienced with ENADA NADH. However, I have a hunch that the l-theanine is going to be sustainable over the long-term whereas, as you know, I had to discontinue ENADA NADH after five months of good results.
I mention all this for two main reasons. First, I wonder if l-theanine might help your CFS via the added dopamine release. In my mind’s eye, I see you as a rather even tempered individual, and if true, you might not need the GABA aspects of l-theanine. Do you ever struggle with irritability (flash rage) or extreme frustration? Have you ever tried L-theanine?
Second, I want to post these preliminary positive anecdotal results in case it might benefit other people on this board who struggle with dysphoric mood swings.
Here is a pretty good article on l-theanine. It is taken from a vendor site (which I know you love), but the information is good and the best part is that the references are hot-linked to the PubMed abstracts. I think you’ll approve; take a look:
http://www.lifelinknet.com/siteResources/ArchivePages/Theanine-Sharpe.asp#fn27
Hope things are well with you in the Great White North.
In case anyone is wondering about my current medication/supplement cocktail, here it is:
300 mg/day Lithobid
300 mg/day St. John’s Wort (Kira brand name)
400 mg/day L-theanine
Small pocket-full of vitamins per day
Three teaspoons of Carlson’s Fish Oil per day-- Ron
Posted by taylor18 on November 20, 2003, at 4:21:12
In reply to L-Theanine »All Irritable PBabblers » Larry Hoover, posted by Ron Hill on November 20, 2003, at 1:08:37
Hey Ron,
Was hoping you'd come back around here; you were gone for awhile.
I read a post in the Safe Harbor group about L-Theanine causing psychosis in an individual so inclined.
Have you personally tried Magnesium? I just ordered a bottle of Magnesium Natural Calm Tea, as it looks to be the best form.
Posted by Ron Hill on November 20, 2003, at 11:19:40
In reply to Re: L-Theanine, posted by taylor18 on November 20, 2003, at 4:21:12
Hi Taylor,
> Was hoping you'd come back around here; you were gone for awhile.Thanks for the kind words. I've been swamped (and I still am) with projects that demand my full attention. Therefore, I've had to discipline myself to be a "read-only" PB participant until these projects are behind me. I scan the boards every other day or so to try to keep track of how people are doing, and I scan for information on meds and supplements that are potentially applicable to my situation. These boards serve me well when it comes to med/supplements information. For example, it was posts by viridis (and others) that first alerted me to the possible benefits of l-theanine ( http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030301/msgs/205138.html ). And, of course, I have to scan the admin board to keep up on the daily soaps.
> I read a post in the Safe Harbor group about L-Theanine causing psychosis in an individual so inclined.Interesting. Do you have a link you can post?
> Have you personally tried Magnesium?Yes, magnesium is a very important part of my cocktail. I’ve taken magnesium for a long time. I currently take 600 mg (measured as elemental magnesium) every night at bedtime. It is a GREAT sleep aid; I fall asleep quickly and sleep soundly. I believe the magnesium helps my brainchemistry directly via biochemical mechanisms and it also helps my brainchemistry indirectly via the improved sleep.
> I just ordered a bottle of Magnesium Natural Calm Tea, as it looks to be the best form.
I don’t know anything about Magnesium Natural Calm Tea. I currently take a combination of magnesium malate, magnesium citrate, and magnesium glycinate (200 mg/night of each). Larry Hoover and JLx (among others) know a lot about magnesium. You might ask them if you have questions.
-- Ron
Posted by recumbent on November 20, 2003, at 12:13:49
In reply to Re: L-Theanine » taylor18, posted by Ron Hill on November 20, 2003, at 11:19:40
Saw this site that gives reactions to L-theanine:
http://remedyfind.com/rem.asp?ID=3976> Hi Taylor,
>
> > Was hoping you'd come back around here; you were gone for awhile.
>
> Thanks for the kind words. I've been swamped (and I still am) with projects that demand my full attention. Therefore, I've had to discipline myself to be a "read-only" PB participant until these projects are behind me. I scan the boards every other day or so to try to keep track of how people are doing, and I scan for information on meds and supplements that are potentially applicable to my situation. These boards serve me well when it comes to med/supplements information. For example, it was posts by viridis (and others) that first alerted me to the possible benefits of l-theanine ( http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030301/msgs/205138.html ). And, of course, I have to scan the admin board to keep up on the daily soaps.
>
> > I read a post in the Safe Harbor group about L-Theanine causing psychosis in an individual so inclined.
>
> Interesting. Do you have a link you can post?
>
> > Have you personally tried Magnesium?
>
> Yes, magnesium is a very important part of my cocktail. I’ve taken magnesium for a long time. I currently take 600 mg (measured as elemental magnesium) every night at bedtime. It is a GREAT sleep aid; I fall asleep quickly and sleep soundly. I believe the magnesium helps my brainchemistry directly via biochemical mechanisms and it also helps my brainchemistry indirectly via the improved sleep.
>
> > I just ordered a bottle of Magnesium Natural Calm Tea, as it looks to be the best form.
>
> I don’t know anything about Magnesium Natural Calm Tea. I currently take a combination of magnesium malate, magnesium citrate, and magnesium glycinate (200 mg/night of each). Larry Hoover and JLx (among others) know a lot about magnesium. You might ask them if you have questions.
>
> -- Ron
>
Posted by NoMotic on November 21, 2003, at 17:13:02
In reply to Re: L-Theanine » taylor18, posted by Ron Hill on November 20, 2003, at 11:19:40
I have read that L-theanine is an NMDA Glutamine receptor antagonist (or was it AMPA glutamine receptors?? correct me). Possibly this is similar to effects of Ketamine or PCP in certain people that might already be predisposed to faulty NMDA receptor activation? Of course, its rare to hear of psychoses from L-theanine, but who knows. The link to NMDA receptors in Schizophrenia is also validated. Just a few random thoughts on this topic.
Posted by Larry Hoover on November 22, 2003, at 7:51:57
In reply to L-Theanine »All Irritable PBabblers » Larry Hoover, posted by Ron Hill on November 20, 2003, at 1:08:37
> Lar,
Ron, I'm *so* glad to see you posting again.
> I’m obtaining good results by taking 400 mg/day of l-theanine to treat my dysphoric mood states (i.e.; extreme irritability). As you know, these dysphoric mood states are associated with my bipolar II disorder. I started the l-theanine trial only about a month ago, so it’s too early to speculate regarding long term efficacy. But so far I like it.
You're leading the pack with your experiments, dude. <high five>
> L-theanine releases GABA and dopamine, and lowers cortisol. The GABA provides pretty good relief for my dysphoric mood states and the (small?) dopamine release partially treats the low motivation associated with the atypical depressive component of my bipolar disorder. For me, the dopamine effect from l-theanine is not nearly as profound as the initial dopamine effect I experienced with ENADA NADH. However, I have a hunch that the l-theanine is going to be sustainable over the long-term whereas, as you know, I had to discontinue ENADA NADH after five months of good results.
It's not so great for me any more. Good, not so profoundly great.
> I mention all this for two main reasons. First, I wonder if l-theanine might help your CFS via the added dopamine release.A tip like that, I'm not going to ignore.
> In my mind’s eye, I see you as a rather even tempered individual, and if true, you might not need the GABA aspects of l-theanine.
I've got PTSD too, Ron. GABA aspects be good.
> Do you ever struggle with irritability (flash rage) or extreme frustration?
I get cranky. Sustained irritability.
> Have you ever tried L-theanine?
Not yet. (I love the word yet. It is really an empowering word.)
> Second, I want to post these preliminary positive anecdotal results in case it might benefit other people on this board who struggle with dysphoric mood swings.
You be da bomb.
> Here is a pretty good article on l-theanine. It is taken from a vendor site (which I know you love),This one seems to be an exception....
> but the information is good and the best part is that the references are hot-linked to the PubMed abstracts. I think you’ll approve;
Yup. ;-)
> take a look:
>
> http://www.lifelinknet.com/siteResources/ArchivePages/Theanine-Sharpe.asp#fn27
>
> Hope things are well with you in the Great White North.They'd be weller if it didn't get so dang cold.
Hope things are good for you in the sunny south.
> In case anyone is wondering about my current medication/supplement cocktail, here it is:
>
> 300 mg/day Lithobid
> 300 mg/day St. John’s Wort (Kira brand name)You *may* consider dose-adjustment there (if you haven't already).
> 400 mg/day L-theanine
> Small pocket-full of vitamins per day
> Three teaspoons of Carlson’s Fish Oil per day
>
> -- RonGood to see your post, buddy.
Lar
Posted by Ron Hill on November 22, 2003, at 15:23:35
In reply to Re: L-Theanine » Ron Hill, posted by Larry Hoover on November 22, 2003, at 7:51:57
Lar,
Thanks for your response.
Based on your reply, I definitely think it is worth your while to give l-theanine a trial. The increased dopamine release may help your CFS and the increased GABA may help your PSTD and occasional crankiness. The research seems split over the effect of l-theanine on serotonin release. Some say it increases, and some say it decreases. My layman opinion based solely on my anecdotal response to l-theanine is that, at least in my particular case, serotonin levels are increased by the supplement. I “feel” what I believe to be a serotonin boost in my brain, but perhaps it is the GABA increase that I feel and I’m, therefore, wrong about the serotonin. If it does provide a serotonin increase, this may also help to alleviate your PSTD symptoms. But you know better than I that YMMV.
I suggest that you try taking 200 mg sometime in the early morning and a second 200 mg dose in the early afternoon. I think you will feel the effect. I sure do. From what I’ve read, it is not supposed to matter if it is taken on an empty stomach or with food. I take it on an empty stomach as insurance against the risk of competition across the blood brain barrier, and because on an empty stomach I can really feel the therapeutic effect kick in 10 or 15 minutes after I take the l-theanine. The effects start to wear-off after about five hours, so two doses do not provide complete coverage for the entire day. Therefore, at some point in the future I might bump up to three doses of 200 mg each day. From what I've read, this stuff is very safe so I'd have no reservations about taking 600 mg/day.
I find an added benefit from drinking several (8 – 10) cups of green tea throughout the day. As you know, green tea is high in l-theanine and also contains other beneficial ingredients. I buy and use both regular and decaffeinated green tea. The industrial process used to remove the caffeine also removes some of the nutrients, but at the same time, I don’t want to drink all that caffeine. So I drink some of each.
>> 300 mg/day St. John’s Wort (Kira brand name)
> You *may* consider dose-adjustment there (if you haven't already).Yes, I hear ya. But when I increased it to 600 mg/day it caused irritability. Right now my brainchemistry is good and, therefore, I don’t have a need for more SJW even if I could tolerate a higher dose. So for the time being, I’m good-to-go. A low dosage of Lithobid (300 mg/day usually, 600 mg/day rarely) controls my hypomania, 300 mg/day of SJW helps to alleviate my depression somewhat, and 400 mg/day of l-theanine treats my dysphoric mood states (GRRRRRRR!) and it also treats the depressive phase of my bipolar II disorder.
Will l-theanine be like SAM-e and ENADA NADH in that it works great for about five months and then turns against me? Or will it continue to provide long-term relief? Time will tell.
Lar, if you decide to try it, let me know what you think of it. I like the fact that at least one function of l-theanine is quantifiably measurable. It clearly increases alpha brain waves and reduces beta waves, and we have medical equipment that can measure it. I like things that are measurable, don't you?
-- Ron
Posted by Larry Hoover on November 24, 2003, at 8:52:02
In reply to Re: L-Theanine » Larry Hoover, posted by Ron Hill on November 22, 2003, at 15:23:35
> Lar, if you decide to try it, let me know what you think of it.
Thanks, Ron. I will both try it, and let you know the outcome.
> I like the fact that at least one function of l-theanine is quantifiably measurable. It clearly increases alpha brain waves and reduces beta waves, and we have medical equipment that can measure it. I like things that are measurable, don't you?
Ya, being a fellow scientist, I do. :-)
> -- RonTake care, buddy.
Lar
Posted by tealady on November 30, 2003, at 23:11:25
In reply to Re: L-Theanine » Larry Hoover, posted by Ron Hill on November 22, 2003, at 15:23:35
Ron,
Thanks for posting that.
I'm glad your posting again too.
I appreciated being able to read through some of old threads you guys posted.
I've just finished my first box of NADH. Hoping the effect lasts <g>
Thanks, Jan
Posted by Ron Hill on December 8, 2003, at 21:18:01
In reply to Now I know why a nice cup of tea is so soothing ? » Ron Hill, posted by tealady on November 30, 2003, at 23:11:25
> Ron,
> Thanks for posting that.
> I'm glad your posting again too.
> I appreciated being able to read through some of old threads you guys posted.
> I've just finished my first box of NADH. Hoping the effect lasts <g>
> Thanks, Jan
-----------------------------Hi Jan,
I missed your post until just now. Thank you for your kind words.
Best wishes regarding your ENADA NADH trial. I really liked it until it started to induce severe irritability several months into my trial. My recommendation (FWIW) would be to find the lowest dosage that works for you and stay at the low dosage to avoid the possible onset of unwanted side effects somewhere down the road.
-- Ron
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Alternative | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.