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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 4 of 4. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by tealady on October 5, 2003, at 7:50:56
In reply to Re: GLA as a fourth prong?, posted by Larry Hoover on December 5, 2002, at 14:25:54
Hi Lar,
Still reading old threads... came across this>Enzymes are proteins, whose structure is a literal transcription of the DNA coding. DNA is copied to messenger-RNA, which is transported to organelles (endoplasmic reticulum) in the cell for manufacture of the protein. The protein is folded in a very special way, often including metal ions (e.g. zinc or selenium), and activated by co-enzymes like the B-vitamins.
>Some food faddists argue that we need to eat raw foods to allow us to absorb the natural enzymes, but your stomach digests proteins. It is unlikely that natural enzymes make it past the stomach, let alone have any activity in our body. (My opinion.) Perhaps that is a source of some confusion?
Thought you might be interested in documentation of one personal experience with switching to raw foods..it encouraged me to at least try too include a bit more raw veges,fruits etc..(grazing food)
This is Helen who was around on the thyroid forum when I first got there..mind you too extreme for me too!
http://forums.about.com/ab-thyroid/messages?msg=42052.27
This is her story
http://www.shazzie.com/raw/transformation/helen.shtml
and this is an update of now
http://pub39.ezboard.com/frawjourneyfrm70.showMessage?topicID=6.topicYou have to admit..pretty amazing, even if it could be coincidental.
Jan
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 8, 2003, at 7:29:42
In reply to Re: raw foods » Larry Hoover, posted by tealady on October 5, 2003, at 7:50:56
> Hi Lar,
> Still reading old threads... came across this
>
> >Enzymes are proteins, whose structure is a literal transcription of the DNA coding. DNA is copied to messenger-RNA, which is transported to organelles (endoplasmic reticulum) in the cell for manufacture of the protein. The protein is folded in a very special way, often including metal ions (e.g. zinc or selenium), and activated by co-enzymes like the B-vitamins.
>
> >Some food faddists argue that we need to eat raw foods to allow us to absorb the natural enzymes, but your stomach digests proteins. It is unlikely that natural enzymes make it past the stomach, let alone have any activity in our body. (My opinion.) Perhaps that is a source of some confusion?
>
> Thought you might be interested in documentation of one personal experience with switching to raw foods..it encouraged me to at least try too include a bit more raw veges,fruits etc..(grazing food)You have an uncanny ability to find important issues within a body of writing.....
In retrospect, I now recognize that I have allowed my bias to over-ride my intellect. I have found (and have previously posted) evidence that enzymes are, in fact, absorbed intact. The key example I have used in the past is bromelain, a relatively substantial (size-wise) enzyme that is aborbed quite readily, and can be detected in the blood.
> This is Helen who was around on the thyroid forum when I first got there..mind you too extreme for me too!
Perhaps that's part of my bias. I don't believe in radical anything, ya know?
> http://forums.about.com/ab-thyroid/messages?msg=42052.27
> This is her story
> http://www.shazzie.com/raw/transformation/helen.shtml
> and this is an update of now
> http://pub39.ezboard.com/frawjourneyfrm70.showMessage?topicID=6.topic
>
> You have to admit..pretty amazing, even if it could be coincidental.
> JanThanks for the reality check.
Lar
Posted by tealady on October 10, 2003, at 23:53:13
In reply to Re: raw foods » tealady, posted by Larry Hoover on October 8, 2003, at 7:29:42
> > >Enzymes are proteins, > >
> > >Some food faddists argue that we need to eat raw foods to allow us to absorb the natural enzymes, but your stomach digests proteins. It is unlikely that natural enzymes make it past the stomach, let alone have any activity in our body. (My opinion.) Perhaps that is a source of some confusion?
> >
> > Thought you might be interested in documentation of one personal experience with switching to raw foods..it encouraged me to at least try too include a bit more raw veges,fruits etc..(grazing food)
>
> You have an uncanny ability to find important issues within a body of writing.....
>
> In retrospect, I now recognize that I have allowed my bias to over-ride my intellect.Seems to happen in all professions, no?
Guess that's the problem with theories/rules etc..we make them up to explain and suit the given knowledge..but when presented with enough evidence that contradicts one's theories we have to at least question our theories/rules as the unknown is far greater than the known.
Re digestive enzymes: I had always thought that some bromelaine, papain, pepsin were first used as a digestive aid in the stomach and kept working the intestines..and others like pancreatin(providing lipase,protease, amylase)needed to be enteric coated to bypass liver to prevent them being broken down ...probably on nothing more scientific than this is how my digestive enzymes (that I used to be able to get) were formulated <g>. Although I think there was some reason why I started buying this formulation years ago.....I would assume that whole foods may contain something else that allows the needed enzymes not to be destroyed....
Also when I think about it, most people I know in the country just "know" that fresh is best..and canned stuff is very unhealthy..and frozen not much better..and even animals will select the fresher food (this may of course be on some other factor than enzymes). It seems to be something that modern city folk tend to forget...due to the the logistics/cost of a daily supply of fresh food. I still remember at my Grandma's as a kid the vege truck used to come around daily to deliver fresh daily veges...grown locally too.I found out last week they use Mg Cl (technical grade) to spray oysters and some veges..broccoli? I think he said amongst others as a preservative?? Of course I was told I would need a better grade to take as a supp?? So there might be more magnesium in my food than I expect <g>
>I have found (and have previously posted) evidence that enzymes are, in fact, absorbed intact. The key example I have used in the past is bromelain, a relatively substantial (size-wise) enzyme that is aborbed quite readily, and can be detected in the blood.
>
> > This is Helen who was around on the thyroid forum when I first got there..mind you too extreme for me too!
>
> Perhaps that's part of my bias. I don't believe in radical anything, ya know?>> > You have to admit..pretty amazing, even if it could be coincidental.
> > Jan
>
> Thanks for the reality check.Lar, hope you took this in the context of "some ideas that may help for some people" rather than a correction of old stuff?
Jan
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 17, 2003, at 11:09:31
In reply to Re: raw foods » Larry Hoover, posted by tealady on October 10, 2003, at 23:53:13
> > You have an uncanny ability to find important issues within a body of writing.....
> >
> > In retrospect, I now recognize that I have allowed my bias to over-ride my intellect.
>
> Seems to happen in all professions, no?Oh, yes. It's a human trait.
> Guess that's the problem with theories/rules etc..we make them up to explain and suit the given knowledge..but when presented with enough evidence that contradicts one's theories we have to at least question our theories/rules as the unknown is far greater than the known.
Some people are able to do that more readily than are others.
> Re digestive enzymes: I had always thought that some bromelaine, papain, pepsin were first used as a digestive aid in the stomach and kept working the intestines..Pepsin requires an acid environment to function. It's totally deactivated in the alkaline intestinal environment. Papain seems to not require acidity, but I think it might be inactivated by really strong acid. Bromelain has been found in the blood after oral intake, which quite flies in the face of established wisdom....
> and others like pancreatin(providing lipase,protease, amylase)needed to be enteric coated to bypass liver
Enteric coatings are insoluble in acid, but soluble in alkaline (basic) solutions. It gets them past the stomach, but lets them dissolve in the enteric (intestinal) environment. Lipase digests fats. Amylase digests certain starches. That's done in the intestine, via pancreatic and liver secretions.
> to prevent them being broken down ...probably on nothing more scientific than this is how my digestive enzymes (that I used to be able to get) were formulated <g>. Although I think there was some reason why I started buying this formulation years ago.....
Oral enzymes fall into the "can't hurt, might help" category.
> I would assume that whole foods may contain something else that allows the needed enzymes not to be destroyed....No, I don't think so. It's merely because heat distorts proteins like enzymes (called denaturing), which destroys their activity. Think about watching an egg fry. Heat permanently changes the proteins. You can't unfry an egg.
> Also when I think about it, most people I know in the country just "know" that fresh is best..and canned stuff is very unhealthy..and frozen not much better..and even animals will select the fresher food (this may of course be on some other factor than enzymes).
Smell, methinks.
> It seems to be something that modern city folk tend to forget...due to the the logistics/cost of a daily supply of fresh food. I still remember at my Grandma's as a kid the vege truck used to come around daily to deliver fresh daily veges...grown locally too.
I used to have massive organic gardens. I've got quite the green thumb, though it's currently on sabbatical.
> I found out last week they use Mg Cl (technical grade) to spray oysters and some veges..broccoli? I think he said amongst others as a preservative??
Not, strictly speaking. MgCl is hygroscopic. It draws moisture out of the air. It keeps things from drying out. Of course, the magnesium is still there, later on, when you eat such a product.
> Of course I was told I would need a better grade to take as a supp??
Hard to know. It depends on the other stuff that makes a particular grade impure. I don't think there's a generic answer to the grade issue.
> So there might be more magnesium in my food than I expect <g>
Apparently, if this practise is widespread.
> > Thanks for the reality check.
>
> Lar, hope you took this in the context of "some ideas that may help for some people" rather than a correction of old stuff?
>
> JanI never take criticisms of my thoughts personally. You're not criticising me, after all. If I never learn of my mistakes, I never learn. Period.
Lar
This is the end of the thread.
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