![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 13 to 37 of 72. Go back in thread:
Posted by alexandra_k on August 30, 2018, at 23:14:06
In reply to Re: alexandra, posted by ert on August 29, 2018, at 5:24:19
> > do you really think the quality of the database that dates back up to 20 years (that therapeutic value remains elusive and not proven) would diminish by deleting eg. this post
> > http://dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20151112/msgs/1099241.html
> > later on ?> you could be a troublemaker Alex. You blame tourists, politicians, even cities and more for the sake of your unstable and erratic inner self.
I think I hear you, Ert.
That is what I used to fear, yes. That someone may read one or more of my posts, here, out of context, and form a really bad opinion of me.
I don't have that fear, anymore.
I mean, people might do that, yes. But, I'm fairly sure, the people who would do that, would only find some other reason to do that, if they are determined.
I don't live in fear of them, anymore.
I used to be afraid that someone would read my more personal posts about my fears and shames and so on. That someone might try and use that sort of knowledge about me to try and manipulate me or trap me in some way. Again, though, if people are determined to do such things, they will find their way to do such things.
I don't live in fear of them, anymore.
There was something in something that I'm not allowed to talk about... Something... About isolation and shame. And it got me thinking. There was no time for thinking. But it got me thinking about how while there are many goods to privacy one of the potential bads to privacy is shame. Shame is a private emotion. Sometimes making public what once was private is a way of... Alleviating... That source of shame.
Babble provided a safe setting for me with (even if only an illusion) of anonymity. In the first place. I was so ashamed about so many things I couldn't bear to see anybody else because I would only see a condemnation in them projected from me...
That whole process of working through was theraputic for me.
I would feel sad if the archives here were gone.
They provide a record. An account. Of what I promised never to forget. To little me.
Sometimes I have read back through archives significantly... Mostly now that is a... Reminiscence... Well, it's time consuming and sort of distressing. If I feel like a good cry, well okay...
There is the potential that someone reads things and it helps them.
I think the boards might be better for having a little... Less of me in them. I feel bad for myself spamming everywhere... Now that the boards have less other people posting so frequently...
I think if people were to read a selection of my posts here they would find a decent human being. What do you guys think? I guess you know aspects of me pretty well. Do you think I'm a nut job and I'd make a horrible doctor - from what you know of me?
I guess it's hard because you don't know of me in that role, if that makes any sense...
But, yeah. I think more good than harm is likely to come from my posting here.
Anyone who doesn't know that people grow and develop and work through and so on... Well... They've got some of that to be doing themselves.
Posted by alexandra_k on August 30, 2018, at 23:24:34
In reply to Re: alexandra » ert, posted by alexandra_k on August 30, 2018, at 23:14:06
> > You blame tourists, politicians, even cities and more for the sake of your unstable and erratic inner self
I have learned to ask the question: If I believe that: Who profits?
Other people profit for my internalising the blame. It makes me weak and powerless. It makes me feel whiney and feel self-pity. It makes me want to curl up in bed and hide and mope.
But I feel like my eyes have been opened. To who profits from my feeling that way? And that helps me feel more resiliant with respect to people doing what they can to induce those feelings in me.
If I am unstable and erratic (and nobody has called me that for a long time) it's normal behavior for the settings I've found myself in. That's how come other people have been determined to keep themself out of those settings and for them to keep some other poor sucker in those settings.
I don't have to join them... But I do have to see what it is that many people are up to... So I am resilant towards them, yeah. I don't have to play those games... But I do have to realise those are the games that many people are playing so that I don't get suckered in.
Posted by alexandra_k on August 30, 2018, at 23:27:40
In reply to Re: alexandra, posted by alexandra_k on August 30, 2018, at 23:24:34
New Zealand politicians have been making it clear that New Zealand doesn't want more tourists. Doesn't want more immigrants.
Will take more refugees.
Will take more people to treat like garbage, in other words.
Who are the refugees? The oppressed people. The persectuted people.
They can come here and populate our slums. We will happily take them. They are less complain-y about things like clean drinking water, sanitation systems, healthy homes.
It's the low road to economic growth.
Posted by alexandra_k on August 30, 2018, at 23:43:32
In reply to Re: sls, posted by SLS on August 29, 2018, at 11:43:07
Hey, Scott. How are you doing?
Posted by SLS on August 31, 2018, at 7:25:03
In reply to Re: sls » SLS, posted by alexandra_k on August 30, 2018, at 23:43:32
> Hey, Scott. How are you doing?
I have not been well.
Treatment changes did not go well. I have been doing poorly for over two months. My depression has become more severe, and I had a bad reaction to the antidepressant, Trintellix (vortioxetine). Trintellex produced a mental state that felt like a terrible zombie brain fog with anxiety. It really screwed me up. These adverse effects lasted well beyond the drug's discontinuation. I stopped taking Trintellex four weeks ago, and only now am I feeling better. I haven't been posting much. I have lost my will to fight, and at times struggle with suicidal thoughts.
I'm sorry that you feel oppressed in NZ.
Be well.
- Scott
Posted by ert on August 31, 2018, at 13:58:53
In reply to Re: alexandra, posted by alexandra_k on August 30, 2018, at 23:24:34
> > > You blame tourists, politicians, even cities and more for the sake of your unstable and erratic inner self
>
> I have learned to ask the question: If I believe that: Who profits?
>
> Other people profit for my internalising the blame. It makes me weak and powerless. It makes me feel whiney and feel self-pity. It makes me want to curl up in bed and hide and mope.
>
> But I feel like my eyes have been opened. To who profits from my feeling that way? And that helps me feel more resiliant with respect to people doing what they can to induce those feelings in me.
>
> If I am unstable and erratic (and nobody has called me that for a long time) it's normal behavior for the settings I've found myself in. That's how come other people have been determined to keep themself out of those settings and for them to keep some other poor sucker in those settings.
>
> I don't have to join them... But I do have to see what it is that many people are up to... So I am resilant towards them, yeah. I don't have to play those games... But I do have to realise those are the games that many people are playing so that I don't get suckered in.I have not read your posts from the pasts except the present. I do not like to read anything from other people other than that they write at the present. Maybe it seems a bit that you are recovering. At the end of such a process is a phase of release or leave hold of it. Most people think only short-sighted. they do not care much what will be in the years coming down the road. You will not be able to release your label and you can be prone to flashbacks or risks. However it is individual and also depended on what grounds someone is recovering or not recovering. Personally I would not care other people delete or leave hold because it is their own wish and I would not want to coerce somebody into doing something. Mileage may vary from age, gender, life situation this is besides what laws say
Posted by alexandra_k on August 31, 2018, at 21:53:17
In reply to Re: sls » alexandra_k, posted by SLS on August 31, 2018, at 7:25:03
> I have not been well.
I am sorry to hear that.
> Treatment changes did not go well. I have been doing poorly for over two months.
Yes, I thought things had been tough for you over the last month or so.
I haven't heard of that medication under either of those names. We are very restricted in what medications are available here. We get some bulk negotiated... uh... shipment? or something... from Pharmac. Only it's not really bulk negotiated. If it was we would collectively bargain with Australia. One would have thought... Our government pays less on healthcare per head of our population than Australia does. Even the public aspects of the US, I think. But, then, I don't understand how one would factor in exchange rate...
Anyway... I really hope things feel better for you, soon. I do know how it feels to be so very tired of fighting.
It is hard to fight when it doesn't feel like your efforts are resuting in appreciable difference. But sometimes it's like winter, or something. Holding on for the winds to blow some change.
I'm glad you are still here.
Posted by alexandra_k on August 31, 2018, at 22:08:10
In reply to Re: alexandra, posted by ert on August 31, 2018, at 13:58:53
> You will not be able to release your label
That's right. So there is an element of my needing to face up to it, or be upfront about it, in the present. Instead of living in fear about when people will find out about my past / living in fear about whether they know about my past already.
There are people who like to prey on other people's weaknesses. Like how my Mother often liked to prey on mine, there are quite a lot of people like that. Those seeking to gain any advantage they can for themselves. If they can induce shame or guilt or fear in me, that makes it easier for them to control me. You gotta be able to stare them directly in the eyes and be like 'huh? what?' till they move along... Sometimes it's just about testing. People want to test you and see if they can upset you / get you to lash out / get you all riled up. I guess because they think that if they can get you to do those things then you won't be much use when they are feeling those things and those things are induced in you by... Induction. I guess I remember testing people... Testing clinicians... Genuinely hoping they would pass my tests and be a source of... Stability. More often than not they failed, however.
They failed. Do I belive I'd do a genuinely better job of it than of many of them? Yes. I do. Do I believe I'll every be as good as some of them? I can only hope. And work really hard.
> and you can be prone to flashbacks or risks.
Maybe. I guess. Sure. But everybody has got their issues. Or, if they don't, then it's unclear whether they have the experiences to understand a little of where the citizens of the health system may be coming from. The issue is in how I respond to those flashbacks or risks.
In NZ we are fond of saying that victims make persecuters. We were doing this government thing which involved identifying high risk victims. The infants of people who were Maaori, had been incarcirated, where transient / didn't stay put in their slum and so on. Putting a little label on those kids so we knew who to target to fill up our prison population down the track. We put a stop to it. Or, we put a stop to telling the public that that was what the government was doing. But there is a great deal of pressure from the government and other sources... To make sure that the great majority of people don't ever recover from being raised in poverty, yeah. I think those who are most ashamed of that... Who do most of what they can to hide that or forget that or not allow it to impact on them... Are those most likely to persecute. I'm talking about the government officials and so on who were raised in State Houses (for example) who went on to sell them off (to themselves) to keep them as slums so that people can be raised worse than they were.
Maybe I'm wrong... I'd rather be wrong. I'd rather people turn out to be... Better than I think they are. But I think my life has gone rather more badly than it should have because I trusted and assumed that people were better. That's a sad truth.
> Personally I would not care other people delete or leave hold because it is their own wish and I would not want to coerce somebody into doing something. Mileage may vary from age, gender, life situation this is besides what laws say
I guess. If Bob decided to pull the boards down, then I don't suppose I'd oppose that. But I think I would feel sad for it. I would grieve for it, somewhat. I like what he chose to do with the writing board. Archiving it. It is still there, but sort of nearer the back of the shelf. That's different from the fires of storage. I don't know.
How are you doing? What is the weather doing in your part of the world? How have natural disasters being treating you? Can you tell me something nice about your day?
Posted by ert on September 1, 2018, at 14:25:20
In reply to Re: ert » ert, posted by alexandra_k on August 31, 2018, at 22:08:10
Maybe you are in your rebellion phase of your life, when you separate more and more from your upbringing and your mother. Better with telegram where the GDPR is respected and dmca complaints accepted.
Better you should check sporadically if you can live without this activity. It is possible.
Posted by ert on September 1, 2018, at 14:48:39
In reply to Re: sls » alexandra_k, posted by SLS on August 31, 2018, at 7:25:03
> > Hey, Scott. How are you doing?
>
> I have not been well.
>
> Treatment changes did not go well. I have been doing poorly for over two months. My depression has become more severe, and I had a bad reaction to the antidepressant, Trintellix (vortioxetine). Trintellex produced a mental state that felt like a terrible zombie brain fog with anxiety. It really screwed me up. These adverse effects lasted well beyond the drug's discontinuation. I stopped taking Trintellex four weeks ago, and only now am I feeling better. I haven't been posting much. I have lost my will to fight, and at times struggle with suicidal thoughts.
>
> I'm sorry that you feel oppressed in NZ.
>
> Be well.
>
>
> - Scottwhen u change things then these thoughts maybe can increase. wish you strength and wish that u come over this bad phase and u adjust well to another med or without a med.
Posted by SLS on September 2, 2018, at 6:49:25
In reply to Re: sls, posted by ert on September 1, 2018, at 14:48:39
> > > Hey, Scott. How are you doing?
> >
> > I have not been well.
> >
> > Treatment changes did not go well. I have been doing poorly for over two months. My depression has become more severe, and I had a bad reaction to the antidepressant, Trintellix (vortioxetine). Trintellex produced a mental state that felt like a terrible zombie brain fog with anxiety. It really screwed me up. These adverse effects lasted well beyond the drug's discontinuation. I stopped taking Trintellex four weeks ago, and only now am I feeling better. I haven't been posting much. I have lost my will to fight, and at times struggle with suicidal thoughts.
> >
> > I'm sorry that you feel oppressed in NZ.
> >
> > Be well.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> when u change things then these thoughts maybe can increase. wish you strength and wish that u come over this bad phase and u adjust well to another med or without a med.
Thanks.
- Scott
Posted by alexandra_k on September 5, 2018, at 4:27:15
In reply to Re: alex, posted by ert on September 1, 2018, at 14:25:20
> Maybe you are in your rebellion phase of your life, when you separate more and more from your upbringing and your mother.
Hmm. I think I'm genuinely past that. I did do a period of no contact at all, and then a period of only minimal contact. I actually have a bit more contact with her, now. I do need to try and keep it limited so it is of higher quality. But I can see some things in her that I genuinely like, that I also see and foster in myself. So, that is nice. It took years and years for me to be able to see / say that.
> Better with telegram where the GDPR is respected and dmca complaints accepted.
I think I might have a slightly better idea of where you are coming from, now. I have been reading some stuff on the TPPA (a trans-pacific trade deal) that was proposed, a few years back, now (like around 2010 or something) between the US and Australia and NZ and Chile and Vietnam and... I don't remember...
Anyway... As part of that there was an analysis of 'what's in it for us and what's in it for the various other players'. And it seemed that what was in it for us was more dairy exports to the US from our dairy giant. Which, actually, isn't something that is good for our country, in all honesty. Environmentally etc.
Anyway... So various things were raised about what was in it for other players. But more... Issues were raised about ways in which NZ could develop, if that makes sense. To be in the position to be a more equitable (haha)... A... more mutually beneficial trading partner.
Anyway... One of the things that came out was how we don't have the intellectual property (copyright, trademark, patient) laws that the US and Australia does. We don't acknowledge those countries intellectual propery laws... I didn't realise that other countries do. With respect to the zoning thing, I mean. The delay on video / movie releases and so on.
Anyway... Interestingly (I thought) whis was something that came up in the context of Pharmac. Bargaining for our access to pharmaceuticals. I didn't realise... We basically just source cheap generics and simply do not contribute to the cost of development at all. Like, at all. We aren't even working to produce anything that might have benefit to others on the world stage. I mean, most of our kids don't get GED equivalency... Think that makes it likely they will go on to discover things in chemistry LMFAO.
So... Instead of NZ continuing to develop dairy for exports... We need to develop in these other ways, as well. Intellectual property to protect our developers and so on - otherwise they will simply be forced to split to other countries who will recognise their talent and protect their products and so on.
It helped me see that I haven't really been understanding what you are saying. There was something about how some exception was made so the internet could persist... So stuff like this site could be permanent - instead of every poster having complete control over whether others can view their posts or not.
My issues are more that it's a superficial facade when it comes to the information. I mean, it's still accessible to people with technical know-how it's just not publically viewable. On the other hand, it's not publically viewable anymore if the person doesn't want it to be.
I think I see what you are saying, I just mean to say. And I perhaps take your point.
Maybe this site will go away, one day. There will just be the fleeting stream of chat...
A... Pre-literate society. On the internet. Maybe things will have devolved to that.
I liked it for it's permanence. But, yeah, there are issues here that run deep. I see that.
can live without Babble. I do check that sporadically. When I'm in flow with my work I don't post here, much. It's more when I'm struggling a bit. Writing philosophy, now, gets me... Back in a place before... It makes it harder for me not to fall back in old (bad) habits. I have managed not to take up smoking, again, but have been drinking sporadically, too, and that was gone before replaced completely by exercise.
But, yeah, I'll be okay, no matter how things turn out with this site :-)
> Better you should check sporadically if you can live without this activity. It is possible.
>
Posted by alexandra_k on September 5, 2018, at 4:48:28
In reply to Re: ert » ert, posted by alexandra_k on August 31, 2018, at 22:08:10
> Maybe. I guess. Sure. But everybody has got their issues. Or, if they don't, then it's unclear whether they have the experiences to understand a little of where the citizens of the health system may be coming from. The issue is in how I respond to those flashbacks or risks.
And of course they aren't citizens of the health system, at all:
They are peoples.Took me a while hahahaha.
Or, as I like to think of them, for our constitutional document (yet to be written) that will need to be written as something of a pre-condition for our being able to honour the Treaty of Waitangi properly since it's a pre-condition for anybody honouring treaties at all...
'all y'all a yous'
Which is a sort of a hybrid of NOrth Carolina (all y'all) and NZ ('a' short for 'of' and 'yous' which is a plural of you just like 'y'all is).
yep.
but we could just call them 'people's /peoples', i s'pose.
Posted by ert on September 24, 2018, at 9:14:17
In reply to Re: ert » alexandra_k, posted by alexandra_k on September 5, 2018, at 4:48:28
he did not fulfill my request to respect and therefore delete some of my intellectual property, thus what i wanted.
Posted by ert on October 3, 2018, at 7:23:03
In reply to Re: dr bobs activity is illegal, posted by ert on September 24, 2018, at 9:14:17
even though the permission is given to him, it does not mean for eternity eg. when somebody revokes the permission of his/her copyright. With this policy he violates intellectual property and privacy rights and if he does not respect someones claim this is intellectual property theft and not blackmail but coercion.
There were some other people who don't like the policy here who wrote comments in the nytimes article:
Harry
Chicago April 20, 2010
Indeed, Dr. Bob's message board is an "experiment" -- and nobody should become a member of it unless they want to be studied by a man who forgot to get his own university's IRB approval before publishing his first study on the community. A study, by the way, that he also didn't mention to anyone in his community until after-the-fact. Conducting research on fellow human beings without their explicit knowledge or consent is questionably ethical. This is the same guy who has his photo on every page. I think you can piece together the full picture from such information.
5Recommend
Levetation
Atlanta April 20, 2010
I prefer sites that advocate for the rights and safety of people with mental health issues such as http://www.worstpills.org/. You can also get their reference book at Amazon. There is also an excellent set of databases at http://www.cchrint.org/psychdrugdangers/. Both these sites are not connected with psychiatrists or drug companies and work for patients rights and education.
1RecommendThanks Dr. Bob.
Joanna
2Recommend
Multi-Forum User
Mass April 19, 2010
Clearly the author decided that best way to review the site is to talk to the site owner, and review a few posts on one of several boards there. Perhaps talking to/emailing some of the users may have helped? Perhaps you could have looked at the declining site stats? Or talk to others in the business? This site is dying a not-so-slow death. It has been for years.Yes, this is the only place to go for peer info on psych meds. But I'd go ANYWHERE else. The civility rules include blocking posters for up to a year. That means taking away contact with their supportive friends for a year. And some of these people have impulse control issues that cause them to act out and get blocked. Posters have pleaded with Bob for years to limit blocks.
And his disappearing acts! We never know when he'll just go *poof* and be gone. And btw, there are ZERO volunteer administrators currently because of this problem, and others. Bob has treated posters disrespectfully for years. The Twitter debacle is classic Bob-ness. No warning. He just opened our Babble posts to Twitter. It was ironed out eventually, but it caused vast numbers of posters to leave ship.
And the posters suicide mentioned earlier? Bob never contacted her family to ask if it was OK for him to publish her heartfelt Babble posts in his related journal article, lectures, etc. He had their contact information. Clearly, he earned money. He never mentioned donating that money to her family or anywhere else.
Seriously, this article is an extremely inaccurate portrayal of PsychoBabble.
5Recommend
south west dude
Yuma, AZ April 19, 2010
Reading this site it seems to be a how to in choosing meds and treating oneself without the assistance of a doctor. Often these meds are not approved for use in the US. I think this is an unwise practice, especially in a complex field like psychiatry.
1Recommend
weezilgirl
Texas April 19, 2010
When I joined the site, Bob listed the University of Chicago as being connected with Babble. After I had been there long enough to question Bob's administrative actions, 4 members joined me in notifying the university about the "connection" . We wrote, emailed and spoke to staff members in the president's office. We were told that the university did not know that Bob had used their name on the site. Bob removed their name. He is listed now as sole owner of Babble.
2Recommendsydferret
t or c April 18, 2010
Anyone who sees a psychiatrist should have their head examined!-someone else
2Recommend
weezilgirl
Texas April 18, 2010
All that glitters is not gold.I joined Babble when I needed help from someone who had experienced problems with withdrawal from a med that I was trying to quit. I received great help from the Babble posters. I am very pleased.
After I had been a member for awhile, I noticed that some rules and regulations were hard to understand. For instance there are "civility" rules that Bob insists the posters use. Civility is a great attribute to have regardless of where you are or what you're saying. But it appears to me that in general the civility rules are floating around in Bob's head. It is difficult to understand what would or would not pass as civil by Bob.For instance a long time member said the s word and was banned for a year. I believe that the block for that poster wasn't so much as a punishment for using the s word as it was coming from feelings of ill will that Bob had towards that particular poster.Bob doesn't like for posters to disagree with him on the boards. That poster wasn't shy about expressing her feelings. I believe blocking can be most hurtful to someone who is vulnerable and Babble is the only social contact that the poster has. When we have mental health issues ofttimes it is difficult or next to impossible to form relationships with people IRL. I don't think that anyone should be blocked more than two weeks. When a poster is blocked unless they have an email address from other posters, they are totally cut off from the site. No chat and no "babblemail".....a personal message service. I know numerous posters have lost their main support system when they have been blocked. For someone who is already in a "dark place" being cut off from your friends and support can be devastating. And only recently has Bob come up with a very bizarre request for posters. When he is getting ready to block someone (after he draws it out for days and days) he will ask other posters to help the first poster keep from being blocked. I couldn't think of anything that I would be less likely to do. Particularly with a poster that I did not "know". It puts a burden upon someone who may have trouble posting anything on the boards and now they are encouraged to "help" someone avoid being blocked by Bob? I felt that if you don't help the poster avoid being blocked you may in some way feel guilty for not speaking up. I also saw what I believe is/was favoritism for certain posters. I am convinced that some could say anything they pleased and somehow they were under Bob's "radar".
Another troublesome issue is that Bob might not show up at the site for a month or more. The site was in crisis and Bob didn't show up for several weeks. His deputies were pleading with him to help.
The writer of the article seems to be particularly enamoured with the medication board. As I said earlier, I received invaluable support from posters and they helped me in difficult times. However, I see problems with the med board. I saw people discussing meds as if they were something to be purchased over the counter at the nearby pharmacy. I also saw posters giving others advice that concerned me. Telling someone, who is your online friend, that they should definitely get off of Med X and start Med A immediately. The first poster is convinced that "so and so" obviously knows his/her stuff because they post so much and seem to really have a grasp on meds. He/she may go to their physician and be told that they absolutely will not be prescribed that med because they don't feel it would be the right one for the patient. Now the poster can be conflicted about how to proceed. Trust his "friend" or his doctor?
I will speak to one more issue while I am commenting. One morning people logged onto the website and there was a Twitter and Facebook link under everyone's posts. The link could be clicked on and your post went straight to Bob's pages at both of these social networking sites. Bob did not ask one poster at Babble if they minded if he added that feature. There was a firestorm on Babble that I believe is the worst I've seen concerning Bob's "ideas" for the site. Some posters were afraid their employers might be able to find them on Babble. Others were afraid their families would be able to read their private posts. Eventually a list was started and the posters could opt-out of having their posts moved to Bob's Facebook and Twitter pages. Feelings were very hurt and a lot of anger was generated towards Bob. Many "old timers" left Babble. A specific situation that upset people was the fact that Bob linked to a post where a poster was talking about taking his life.I cannot imagine how a person would feel about having his posts available to the "public". Those who "talked" to the poster were in the thread. Somehow Bob believes that linking personal posts to the social networking sites will help bring new people to Babble.
All that glitters is not gold. I, along with many others, left the site last year for good
5Recommend
angie55
NYC April 18, 2010
The stated purpose of this website is questionable when the doctor who runs it continues to market and promote it through means such as Twitter and Facebook while refusing to let users who once revealed personal, sensitive information to edit or delete their posts. Some people are held hostage to text written about their personal mental health issues posted on that site over a decade ago, before internet privacy issues were a topic of concern. While there are now visible disclaimers about how the information might be used, it was not so apparent in the past.Having said that, it seems the website benefits the career of the Dr./owner through the books (see the book Dr. Bob wrote about a Psychobabble member who committed suicide) and research published at the potential expense of those who provided the information. How did the family of the poster who committed suicide feel about the publicity?
Legal? Perhaps. Ethical? I do not think so-not when a psychiatrist runs the website which can lead to a false sense of security to those who contribute. Before using the site, I would have never guessed a professional psychiatrist could be so nonchalant about mental health privacy issues.
Posted by alexandra_k on October 5, 2018, at 3:31:09
In reply to Re: dr bobs activity is illegal, posted by ert on October 3, 2018, at 7:23:03
and then there's liability insurance...
Posted by ert on October 5, 2018, at 15:31:34
In reply to Re: dr bobs activity is illegal, posted by alexandra_k on October 5, 2018, at 3:31:09
> and then there's liability insurance...
You should not need a liability insurance for that.
He hosts copyright infringements of sensitive data, coerces the participants or owners by not executing their will of deleting some posts, all posts or if desired their whole profile.
And by that he exposes participants to the potential danger of public sensitive data containing profiles.
I think he should soon update and amend the current policy.
But what is that for a doctor who acts unlawful? I think that participants or sick people deserve to be respected, treated seriously and they must be granted the rights that the law sets.
I do not say that the idea of this babble is bad in general but the policy is.
Posted by ert on October 5, 2018, at 16:23:17
In reply to Re: robert hsiung hosts copyright infringements..., posted by ert on October 5, 2018, at 15:31:34
> > and then there's liability insurance...
>
> You should not need a liability insurance for that.
> He hosts copyright infringements of sensitive data, coerces the participants or owners by not executing their will of deleting some posts, all posts or if desired their whole profile.
> And by that he exposes participants to the potential danger of public sensitive data containing profiles.
> I think he should soon update and amend the current policy.
> But what is that for a doctor who acts unlawful? I think that participants or sick people deserve to be respected, treated seriously and they must be granted the rights that the law sets.
> I do not say that the idea of this babble is bad in general but the policy is.
>
>
>however, it also must be mentioned that the policy is 20 years old, but he has not taken any steps yet to change it and adapt them to new circumstances.
Posted by ert on October 6, 2018, at 17:23:12
In reply to Re: robert hsiung hosts copyright infringements..., posted by ert on October 5, 2018, at 16:23:17
Alexandra: NZ should better tighten a bit the intellectual property laws so that they can sell more intellectual goods and not only wool and dairy products.
For Europe and neighboring countries I am very sure that dr. bob acts unlawful with the current policy. This especially also in the light of the new GDPR. Whereas for the US I am a bit less sure but from what I have read is that fair use is limited and does not apply for particular sensitive data. And the permission for usage can anyway be revoked from the copyright holder at anytime. Furthermore, every post is linked and therefore also every trivial phrase within that post with every other substantial text in another post.
In the us apply e.g.
State specific privacy laws like Personal Data Collection and Protection Ordinance
Federal Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 and state specific laws
21st Century Cures Act
Copyright Act
Posted by alexandra_k on October 6, 2018, at 17:31:14
In reply to Re: robert hsiung hosts copyright infringements..., posted by ert on October 6, 2018, at 17:23:12
how do you feel about the Khan Academy posting rules, then? that's a site for children. I think (though I didn't take a multi-guess, admittedly) they state they retain copyright over your post, too. and they can use your data (including test statistic) how they want.
Posted by rjlockhart37 on October 6, 2018, at 19:27:38
In reply to Re: robert hsiung hosts copyright infringements..., posted by ert on October 5, 2018, at 15:31:34
bob literally is doing an experiment with posts, and directly linking them to google, I know eveeerrrrythang there is know about Deeeee Bob
Posted by ert on October 7, 2018, at 5:44:24
In reply to Re: robert hsiung hosts copyright infringements..., posted by rjlockhart37 on October 6, 2018, at 19:27:38
interesting question, alexandra:
i am not a specialist, but as far as I understand the automatic transfer of the copyright would not be legal. I would need an agreement, contract or license with the conditions signed in mutuality. an automatic transfer could signify theft or unconscionably. however, when the data qualifies eg. as fair use, then it can be used with permission. but the ownership is not transferred.
Posted by ert on October 7, 2018, at 6:17:41
In reply to Re: robert hsiung hosts copyright infringements..., posted by ert on October 7, 2018, at 5:44:24
alexandra:
I do not think that med data, disability data etc. do qualify as fair use. Moreover, every post with whatever content is connected with another post and the latter connected with all others. They build together a profile, so therefore the content of a post must be considered with all other posts. Because the ownership is not transferred automatically to a user, the given permission for usage should be able to be revoked by the owner. If the right to be revoked not or only partly granted, that could signify theft or coercion. These rules apply, as far as I understand, regardless if somebody posts anonymous or partly anonymous. In some countries anonymous content loose their copyright after 80 years or more, however.
In other countries it might be similar but also different.
Posted by SLS on October 7, 2018, at 10:20:11
In reply to Re: robert hsiung hosts copyright infringements..., posted by ert on October 5, 2018, at 15:31:34
What would you like to see happen?
- Scott
Posted by ert on October 7, 2018, at 14:07:51
In reply to Re: robert hsiung hosts copyright infringements... » ert, posted by SLS on October 7, 2018, at 10:20:11
> What would you like to see happen?
>
>
> - ScottDear Scott,
For the fulfillment of lawfulness:
Regardless of the content a participant must be able to delete his/her posts or they must be reliably deleted by someone else.
To abide by the laws of at best most countries overrides the negative argument that the size of the database could get 20% smaller by deleting posts and it could consequently loose of its quality. The database consists of much non medication posts like melt downs, venting etc. Moreover, a positive clinical effect of this database has not been proven yet. It could be, however, that the present policy makes the participants more sick and anxious than healthy.
Research and academic achievement with an ever growing database with copyright infringements is ethically and legally questionable. Especially, when it is being considered the bad consequences and risks that it can pose, currently or many years later in a participants life. For example, consequences mentioned in the faqs or others.
maybe you scott could be given the responsible ability to delete posts and identifiers.
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