![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 21 to 45 of 45. Go back in thread:
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 11:27:32
In reply to Re: Lou's response-, posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 10:45:28
> Lou, since my post had nothing to do with parents or children, why did you bring that pointedly into your reply?
>
> Could it have something to do with the fact that I have previously stated that I find such descriptions upsetting? Could you have found my post upsetting, so are trying to upset me as well? Or are you planning to include such references in all your posts to me, perhaps because you are angry with me?
>
> You say that you are protected from anger in your board interactions, but things like this would tend to suggest other possibilities.D,
The posts here are read by people trying to make a decision as to drug themselves or their children or a parent or spouse or someone else or not. Many readers could be parents trying to have more knowledge concerning mind-altering drugs due to the now growing body of evidence pointing to that these drugs could induce a mind-altered state in children in particular to kill themselves and/or others and even commit mass-murder. The drugs can cause life-ruining conditions.I want them to know all the facts.
Lou
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3m1XwtPWXE
Posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 11:29:53
In reply to Lou's reply » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 11:27:32
To me, out of context.
I have to tell you that upsetting things used in an aggressive manner do not hurt me.
Will you include mentions of drugging your children in your response to me. That would be verging on hilarious.
Posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 11:30:37
In reply to Lou's reply » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 11:27:32
If you believe God protects you from feeling anger on Babble, you might want to ask him for a bit more help.
Posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 11:35:07
In reply to Re: Lou's reply » Lou Pilder, posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 11:30:37
Another key to success in mood stabilization.
Congrats Lou. You've figured out how to get rid of me - for as long as it works. It won't work forever.
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 11:44:12
In reply to Re: Lou's reply » Lou Pilder, posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 11:30:37
> If you believe God protects you from feeling anger on Babble, you might want to ask him for a bit more help.
>
> D,
I am not protected by the God that I give service and worship to from anger. Anger can be a good thing, for it can cause direction to be taken. The Sun and the Shield do come into play, however in anger. The Sun heals me from the pain of anger and gives me the power to overcome anger. I am instructed to not let the sun go down on my anger, and have rest. Each night before I go to bed, my friend, I dedicate any anger to the one I love.
Lou
Posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 11:47:33
In reply to Hate and problematic behaviors. » Dinah, posted by SLS on May 27, 2013, at 11:17:51
Problematic behaviors don't make me hate. But they *can* make me angry. I tend to be happier when I avoid situations where people behave in ways that violate my notions of how they "should" behave.
I think Dr. Bob "should" address problematic behaviors.
I suppose I could work on my "should-ing". But the incentive would have to be high enough.
Posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 11:55:02
In reply to Lou's reply- » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 11:44:12
IMO, anger should have more than a fair amount of pain attached to it.
Feeling pain at others' anger is a natural response designed to increase cooperative social behavior.
Feeling pain at one's own anger helps to keep one from hanging onto it. It is a suggestion that perhaps a non-angry response is called for.
I don't wish to cause you pain, or feel pain caused by you. I would prefer to work together, if possible, to find ways for you to post what you need to post in ways that are conducive to the building of community at Babble.
We have different goals. You believe, if I understand correctly, that you have been called by the divine to a ministry at Babble specifically to free people from the shackles of psychiatric drugs. I have the goal of trying to encourage a healthy community of support and education from those who are seeking help, including medical help of medication, with mental illness.
Do you see any way to achieve your goal without harming mine?
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 12:06:04
In reply to Re: Lou's reply- » Lou Pilder, posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 11:55:02
> IMO, anger should have more than a fair amount of pain attached to it.
>
> Feeling pain at others' anger is a natural response designed to increase cooperative social behavior.
>
> Feeling pain at one's own anger helps to keep one from hanging onto it. It is a suggestion that perhaps a non-angry response is called for.
>
> I don't wish to cause you pain, or feel pain caused by you. I would prefer to work together, if possible, to find ways for you to post what you need to post in ways that are conducive to the building of community at Babble.
>
> We have different goals. You believe, if I understand correctly, that you have been called by the divine to a ministry at Babble specifically to free people from the shackles of psychiatric drugs. I have the goal of trying to encourage a healthy community of support and education from those who are seeking help, including medical help of medication, with mental illness.
>
> Do you see any way to achieve your goal without harming mine?D,
People can make their own determination as to if they want to drug themselves or not in collaboration with a psychiatrist/doctor. But in order for one to make an informed decision, they use the facts to do so. Any repression of facts IMHHHO, is academic dishonesty and could lead to the deaths of others from psychiatric drugs.
Lou
Posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 12:11:33
In reply to Lou's reply- » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 12:06:04
That didn't really answer my question. Specifically...
1. Is it your belief that you were called by the divine to minister at Babble to help free people from the shackles of dependency on psychiatric drugs, or to keep them free from the shackles before they begin?
2. Do you see any ways your goals can be achieved while in such a way as to further my goals of fostering a community of support and education, or at least not be incompatible with my goals?
Posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 12:21:57
In reply to Lou's reply- » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 12:06:04
Oh wait. I think I see.
Are you saying that my goals can be achieved at the same time your goals are? In that you are giving people additional information to help them make decisions?
I suppose that's a valid enough point, although I have reservations.
Do you think the *way* you disseminate that information could increase or decrease the chances of fostering a supportive community?
For example, would it be fostering a supportive community for the free exchange of information to continually suggest that the use of medications will lead death, or the user becoming a mass murderer? Would the use of statistics help the free exchange of information? For example, "controlled studies have shown that suicides increased xxx% over placebo" or "xxx in xxxxx uses of the medication have led to incidents of mass murder" or "the mass murderers make up x% of the population as a whole, and x% of the population taking this medication".
Would it be compatible to your mission to say that people should have the right to say they do or do not want to be be the subject of a ministry to keep them from the shackles of drugs in response to their own posts?
It wouldn't harm your ministry to nonposters if you put your warnings in separate threads. And it won't help your ministry any to preach to the unwilling. In fact, doing the latter is counterproductive to my goal - and in my opinion to your own as well.
Posted by SLS on May 27, 2013, at 12:24:49
In reply to Stepping away from Babble, posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 11:35:07
> Another key to success in mood stabilization.
>
> Congrats Lou. You've figured out how to get rid of me - for as long as it works. It won't work forever.I sure am glad that you decided to continue posting - at least for now. You have been particularly helpful on the Medication board. I take away many lessons from you, not the least important being those of objectivity and fairness. I hope you remain an active poster on Psycho-Babble.
- Scott
Posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 12:26:58
In reply to Re: Stepping away from Babble » Dinah, posted by SLS on May 27, 2013, at 12:24:49
My anger is rarely long lasting.
A direct answer from Lou melted it fast enough.
And thank you! :)
Posted by SLS on May 27, 2013, at 12:43:35
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-, posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 12:21:57
> Oh wait. I think I see.
Are you sure?
Please do not rely upon your hopes to change someone else's behavior as a condition of your staying at PB. I doubt it will happen.
I see you always making great efforts to support and attempt to nurture Lou Pilder. I fear that continuing to do so will only frustrate you. Even worse, it might hurt you. Please don't hurt yourself. Do you ever see yourself as a victim of the Einstein theorem on insanity? Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
If I have underestimated your command of this situation, I apologize. I'm just being selfish in wanting you to stay here.
I post in response to Lou Pilder on the Medication board only to edify others. It is not my concern to win an argument against Lou Pilder. I do not expect to change his mind or his behavior. I actually rely on his recalcitrance.
Have a nice day, Dinah. Don't let anyone ruin it.
- Scott
Posted by ed_uk2010 on May 27, 2013, at 14:17:43
In reply to Lou's response- » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 10:39:16
> > And moreover, in the justifiable desire to counter incorrect facts in the posts on that thread, the original poster was lost as the focus.
> >
> > I think maybe in such cases, the post and replies to it should be moved to a new thread, to allow the original poster to receive pertinent replies.A good idea.
>This can be done by offering educational material
The information you offer is rarely of educational quality. The website ehealthme is an example, as is the drug interaction checker on drugs.com.
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 16:03:30
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-, posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 12:21:57
> Oh wait. I think I see.
>
> Are you saying that my goals can be achieved at the same time your goals are? In that you are giving people additional information to help them make decisions?
>
> I suppose that's a valid enough point, although I have reservations.
>
> Do you think the *way* you disseminate that information could increase or decrease the chances of fostering a supportive community?
>
> For example, would it be fostering a supportive community for the free exchange of information to continually suggest that the use of medications will lead death, or the user becoming a mass murderer? Would the use of statistics help the free exchange of information? For example, "controlled studies have shown that suicides increased xxx% over placebo" or "xxx in xxxxx uses of the medication have led to incidents of mass murder" or "the mass murderers make up x% of the population as a whole, and x% of the population taking this medication".
>
> Would it be compatible to your mission to say that people should have the right to say they do or do not want to be be the subject of a ministry to keep them from the shackles of drugs in response to their own posts?
>
> It wouldn't harm your ministry to nonposters if you put your warnings in separate threads. And it won't help your ministry any to preach to the unwilling. In fact, doing the latter is counterproductive to my goal - and in my opinion to your own as well.D,
What I am doing here is sowing seeds of hope to those that want a way out of depression and addiction. The seeds will not germinate until water and light penetrate the seed. I am prohibited from posting what that water and light are here due to the prohibitions to me by Mr Hsiung. But at the same time the seeds are sown and some may find the Light and the Water to cause the seed to germinate later.
I am also telling of The Sun of Righteousness than can arise wiht healing in His wings and what the conditions are for that Sun to arise to you. That Sun arises in the heart, and illuminates the darkness to be dispelled so that addiction and depression are vanished from one's heart and they have a new heart, a new spirit, and a new mind. And they live in a different realm where there is no death. This is all prohibited by Mr Hsiung's prohibitions to me to post here.
I do not know what kind of ground the seeds will fall on. And I do not know if the Water and the Light will get to those seeds. But I do know that it has been revealed to me that whatever a man sows, so shall he reap. And if they sow hate, they will reap hate. If they sow death, they will reap death. And those that think that they can stop the Light of Life from penetrating the darkness, or stop the rain from falling, I say to you that in an encounter that I had with a Rider on a white horse, He said to me, "Seek the Lord while He may be found. Call upon Him while He is near. Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts, let him return to the Lord, and He will have mercy on him. And to our God, for He will abundantly pardon.
For His thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways His ways. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are His ways higher than your ways, and His thoughts higher than your thoughts.
For as the rain and snow come down from heaven, and do not return there, but water the earth and make it bring forth the bud, that it may give seed to the sower and bread to the eater,
So shall HIs word be that goes from His mouth.
It shall not return to Him void but shall accomplish what He pleases and shall prosper in the thing for which He sent it.
For you shall go out with joy and be led out with peace. The mountains and hills shall break forth in singing before you. And all the trees of the field shall clap their hands."
Lou
Posted by Phillipa on May 27, 2013, at 19:10:36
In reply to Lou's reply- » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 16:03:30
Who is the Rider on the White Horse? I think I will google this? What do I have to lose? Phillipa
Posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 19:56:46
In reply to Recalcitrance, insanity, and Einstein. » Dinah, posted by SLS on May 27, 2013, at 12:43:35
I've generally found that it's better not to do anything at all with the expectation of a desired response. When I post something like this, it's generally more a question of my doing what I would have *me* do, not my trying to have another do what I would have him do.
I suppose as much as anything, it was an attempt to express to Lou that I have no ill intent towards him, while also expressing *my* feelings about what Babble ought to be and my concerns about how certain posting styles can affect that.
Not that that my "ought" is of any real importance, since Babble will be more guided by Dr. Bob's "oughts".
Posted by 10derheart on May 27, 2013, at 22:26:46
In reply to Stepping away from Babble, posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 11:35:07
No, it won't. It didn't for me. But it's nice to have the option.
I admire your charitable re-engagement - I really do. I want to try the same, but am fresh out of ideas that *might* start any actual dialog.
-- your friend and fellow druggie/child-drugger ;-)
Posted by Willful on May 28, 2013, at 10:43:44
In reply to Re: Recalcitrance, insanity, and Einstein. » SLS, posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 19:56:46
It is truly important for us not to be pushed away by Lou's posts which use various rhethorical methods-- parents are told they may be 'drugging" their children for example, when we all know this is a thing any good parents would be horrified to think they might be doing. etc
As far as a Shield goes-- maybe we can try to use a shield of knowing that he is in a sense manipulating our fears and making us imagine the worst in the hopes that this will somehow shock or terrify us into what he considers a safe result--
I don't like having my dreads and terrors evoked by someone who with an agenda-- that may not be rational- at least as I would reason on a subject-- and this helps me to remain (somewhat) calm. At least after a bit--
It's only if good people fail to act that evil triumphs-- they say. Let's remember this-- perhaps without the rhetoric of evil-- I would say, only if good people fail to act will fears and irrational imaginings triumph. If new posters are to come here, they need to count on a community of more nuanced and thorough thinkers than we can have if you, Dinah, and others like you, leave.
There are only a few voices and those that count will, I hope, persevere.
Posted by Toph on May 28, 2013, at 12:10:43
In reply to Lou's reply- » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 16:03:30
> What I am doing here is sowing seeds of hope to those that want a way out of depression and addiction...
> LouI am not very religious, but I have heard this from time to time at many weddings that I have attended. It reminds me of Lou. Someone who makes a lot of noise, but seems to me lacking in true compassion for those he portends to help:
"If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am like sounding brass, or a clanging cymbal."
Posted by Phillipa on May 28, 2013, at 18:50:19
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-, posted by Toph on May 28, 2013, at 12:10:43
Many articles. Seems most basically say same. One of many.
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 28, 2013, at 21:54:43
In reply to Re:Rider of White Horse-, posted by Phillipa on May 28, 2013, at 18:50:19
> Many articles. Seems most basically say same. One of many.
>
> http://www3.telus.net/thegoodnews/blackhorse.htmPhillipa,
Thank you for your interest in the Rider on the white horse. Your citation concerns different horses than the one that I am writing about here. But there is in your citation other aspects that could tie in to the overriding aspect of what has been revealed to me. You may find some in my previous posts.
The Rider on the white horse that I have been quoting is The Sun of Righteousness that can arise with healing in His rays. When you see that Sun, the light will dispel the darkness of depression and addiction in your heart and heal you to become a whole new creature. Gone will be the dark clouds and the cold wind, and behold you will have life for evermore.
Lou
Lou
Posted by Phillipa on May 28, 2013, at 22:48:48
In reply to Lou's reply-prnzofpeaz » Phillipa, posted by Lou Pilder on May 28, 2013, at 21:54:43
What Might I google search to find the True Meaning Of The Rider? Phillipa
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 29, 2013, at 16:22:51
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-prnzofpeaz » Lou Pilder, posted by Phillipa on May 28, 2013, at 22:48:48
> What Might I google search to find the True Meaning Of The Rider? Phillipa
Phillipa,
The true meaning needs to be known before you could do a search. What I have been writing about here is what has been revealed to me that could lead members here seeking to have a way out of depression and addiction. It has been revealed to me that depression is in the heart of man, and that by having a new heart one overcomes depression. For it has been revealed to me that out of the heart proceeds evil thoughts and murder and hate and that the heart is desperately wicked.
The Rider on the white horse has overcome and can lead others to overcome, for riding the white horse is a symbol of victory. In this case, victory over all things including death.
You see, I have been writing here about a Great Gulf that separates
one from the new realm of the new heart. Not like the heart that you were born with, that you have seen the ancestors of us all in the history of the world seeking to acquire treasure for themselves here. But this new heart is seeking to store up treasures in heaven.
There has been revealed to me a way to pass over the Great Gulf and leave depression and addiction in the realm of the dead. I am prevented from posting that here due to the prohibitions posted to me here by Mr Hsiung. You see, the mind that you are born with is a natural mind, a flesh mind, a carnal mind. And the new heart is a spiritual mind. It has been revealed to me that to be carnally minded is death, and to be spiritually minded is life.
So if you want to google a search, seek first the Kingdom of Heaven and then all these things will be known to you.
Lou
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 29, 2013, at 18:36:10
In reply to Re: Recalcitrance, and not being pushed out, posted by Willful on May 28, 2013, at 10:43:44
> And moreover, in the justifiable desire to counter incorrect facts in the posts on that thread, the original poster was lost as the focus.
>
> I think maybe in such cases, the post and replies to it should be moved to a new thread, to allow the original poster to receive pertinent replies.I came close to doing that, but thought the focus did return to the original poster.
> I'm also wondering whether it would be ok with Dr. Bob if posters gently remind newcomers that it's ok to state that certain types of posts (such as blanket anti medication posts) wouldn't be helpful. Last I heard, Dr. Bob had agreed to enforce that request.
>
> DinahIt's OK with me, and I'll still enforce such requests. Please don't pressure posters to make them, however.
--
> Please do not rely upon your hopes to change someone else's behavior as a condition of your staying at PB. I doubt it will happen.
>
> - Scott> I've generally found that it's better not to do anything at all with the expectation of a desired response.
>
> DinahI heard a talk by Walter E. Brackelmanns at the APA and liked (and tweeted) his 4 rules of intimacy:
1. No criticizing
2. No defending
3. No demanding
4. No losing control of angerHoping to change someone else's behavior wouldn't be consistent with #3.
--
> only if good people fail to act will fears and irrational imaginings triumph.
>
> WillfulI'm trying to continue to act. Anybody else?
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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