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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 30 to 54 of 54. Go back in thread:
Posted by Maxime on October 21, 2009, at 17:07:02
In reply to Re: Babbles Becoming A Thing Of The Future » MAxime, posted by Phillipa on October 20, 2009, at 19:17:29
If people are going to leave because of there are threads on MAOIS, well then, maybe depression isn't their biggest problem.
Posted by Phillipa on October 21, 2009, at 20:36:03
In reply to Re: Babbles Becoming A Thing Of The Future » Phillipa, posted by Maxime on October 21, 2009, at 17:07:02
Seems to me that Dr Bob is looking to attract more folks to babble and considering changing med board names. I feel it should offer all something. Is that not fair? Love Phillipa everyone isn't exotic. We are all unique people. Compare to a huge department store. Departments that appeal to most of the customers and those are the ones they most often frequent????
Posted by Phillipa on October 21, 2009, at 21:23:54
In reply to Re: Babbles Becoming A Thing Of The Future » Phillipa, posted by SLS on October 21, 2009, at 11:49:25
It rather troubles me that you refer to yourself and your needs. But then we are all different. I remember when I first joined babble I think you were trialing cymbalta new at the time and followed your progress or lack of. So at the time conventional meds seemed to be the general topic. It's interesting to me at least that some are now combining some meds not advised by some doctors. I do know websites that are trialing overseas meds not even mentioned on babble. That's neither here nor there. The archieves reflect to me a time when babble had one board that all topics were posted on. That shows evolution that there are more boards now with different topics. Some are now gone lack of posters. So I feel for evolution to attract posters some for those that the folks in real life I know work for them SSRI's SNRI's for example. For them it gets confusing when multiple combinations of meds are blended together. Maybe a poll of admin to see what others would like to see in the way of boards. I feel a success board would give hope to others too just occurred to me. In no way is this thread meant to put down Maoi's. Just not all need or have access to them or even want them. Now remember this is how I and I alone feel. Love Phillipa
Posted by SLS on October 22, 2009, at 13:14:49
In reply to Re: Babbles Becoming A Thing Of The Future » SLS, posted by Phillipa on October 21, 2009, at 21:23:54
> It rather troubles me that you refer to yourself and your needs.
Surprise! Caring for oneself is mentally healthy.
Are you also troubled that there aren't enough posts for you to respond to?
> But then we are all different.
Thanks for the affirmation.
Why do you have a need to limit the drug treatments that one may talk about?
> I remember when I first joined babble I think you were trialing cymbalta new at the time and followed your progress or lack of.
You have a remarkable memory.
> So at the time conventional meds seemed to be the general topic.
Based upon the therapies used contemporaneously by SLS?
> It's interesting to me at least that some are now combining some meds not advised by some doctors.
Some doctors are wrong. It does happen. As you so deftly pointed out, everyone is different, including doctors. Some doctors would never prescribe Valium, right?
> I do know websites that are trialing overseas meds not even mentioned on babble.
I know websites whose owners declare that depression is not a medical illness.
> That's neither here nor there.
Exactly.
> The archieves reflect to me a time when babble had one board that all topics were posted on. That shows evolution that there are more boards now with different topics. Some are now gone lack of posters. So I feel for evolution to attract posters
Who says that evolution has a goal? Directors of websites may have goals, but evolution often has other ideas.
> I know work for them SSRI's SNRI's for example.
I know people for whom Strattera monotherapy works. I know people for whom Parnate monotherapy works.
> For them it gets confusing when multiple combinations of meds are blended together.
Perhaps people who are so easily confused should be encouraged to seek treatment by a real live doctor. If they already have one, perhaps they should be encouraged to ask questions of their doctor to resolve the confusion.
> Maybe a poll of admin to see what others would like to see in the way of boards.
I am sure Dr. Bob would appreciate the input.
> I feel a success board would give hope to others too just occurred to me.
A success board? I guess I just prefer to be a failure. One problem: Few people who find success have all day long to post on Psycho-Babble. Many seem to disappear as they have other things to occupy their time.
> In no way is this thread meant to put down Maoi's.
What are your criteria for treating MAOIs differently from all other psychoactive substances?
> Just not all need or have access to them or even want them.
Right. Likewise, not all have access to Luvox and Valium in combination, or even want it. Too complicated. It appears that only one person is being treated with these drugs. However, I would not be in favor of starting a new board just for this person and exclude them from the main board.
- Scott
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 22, 2009, at 14:01:17
In reply to Re: Babbles Becoming A Thing Of The Future » Phillipa, posted by SLS on October 22, 2009, at 13:14:49
> It appears that only one person is being treated with these drugs. However, I would not be in favor of starting a new board just for this person and exclude them from the main board.
You were in favor of some changes to Neurotransmitters, though. Could you remind me what they were? Or link to them? Thanks,
Bob
Posted by SLS on October 22, 2009, at 17:30:21
In reply to Re: Babbles Becoming A Thing Of The Future, posted by Dr. Bob on October 22, 2009, at 14:01:17
> You were in favor of some changes to Neurotransmitters, though. Could you remind me what they were? Or link to them? Thanks,
I was hoping to see a board that is larger in scope than the study of only neurotransmitters. I thought that a board dedicated to pure research in the field of neuroscience might help facilitate a better understanding of the brain and the drugs that are used to treat it. I do not believe that there should be a separation of drug treatments based upon the number of drugs used on the Medication board. The Medication board seems to be doing very well as it now exists.
- Scott
Posted by glydin00 on October 22, 2009, at 19:31:50
In reply to Re: Babbles Becoming A Thing Of The Future » SLS, posted by Phillipa on October 21, 2009, at 21:23:54
> It rather troubles me that you refer to yourself and your needs.
~~~ Oh my... did *you* REALLY write that?
Man oh man....
Posted by Phillipa on October 22, 2009, at 20:32:22
In reply to Re: Babbles Becoming A Thing Of The Future » Phillipa, posted by glydin00 on October 22, 2009, at 19:31:50
I stand firmly by what I believe. Know too many who I do mail with that were intimidated by the complexities of the medication regimes and were only looking to share their experience with first me. And yes I did pay attention to the cymbalta trial as was new to the med and also never even used a computer. I'd never been to a website my husband found it and we read together. As time went on developed friendships via mail and continue with them. I do admit since had been on the cymbalta I did stop the med based on that trial. How was I to know the person was med resistant? I'd been on for three months. Seemed long enough to me. So if I could be influenced that easily and I'm not dumb others might also be. Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on October 22, 2009, at 21:34:30
In reply to Re: Babbles Becoming A Thing Of The Future » Phillipa, posted by SLS on October 22, 2009, at 13:14:49
I feel put down when someone says not enough posts to post to. I could seek out other sites as some have said on babble that they visit more than one. My choice is to remain on one board. I do remember when we were encouraged to post ask you doctor first. Now you insinuate docs could be wrong? I know I'm wrong lots of times and readily admit this to others. I myself haven't experienced a doc say they are or could be wrong and to seek info on a website. In fact my internist recently said stay off the internet. His words not mine follow " The internet is full of false information ". Agree some is false not all. But when I first joined the site I thought I could use my skills as a psych nationally certified RN to encourage others and congratulate on their successes. I do think I do this. My schedule is rather different from others as I'm out during late afternoon, go to bed at three am after doing business posting on ebay. Then read. Real books. I visit my family and friends all over the states on another site if time. We seem to all have preferences as this in my opinion is great. My opinion is merely to allow those who do listen to their docs on a med a method of communicating with others with similar problems. Is that wrong? Successes are so welcome when some may be about to stop trying. So to hear of successes and I think this news would spread that indeed there was a place to post them would both allow the person to express this. And I'm sure a number of members read only. Sleep late out all afternoon in about 7pm and computer. Is that wrong? Phillipa
Posted by emme on October 22, 2009, at 21:41:54
In reply to Re: Babbles Becoming A Thing Of The Future » SLS, posted by Phillipa on October 21, 2009, at 21:23:54
> It rather troubles me that you refer to yourself and your needs.
It seems to me that Scott spends an awful lot of time and energy supporting others. Why should he not discuss his own needs as well?
Posted by Phillipa on October 22, 2009, at 22:39:36
In reply to Re: Babbles Becoming A Thing Of The Future » Phillipa, posted by emme on October 22, 2009, at 21:41:54
Emme we all should. Scott's a great guy this isn't about him. I feel we're off target it's about making babble a place most feel comfortable posting on. The future. Phillipa
Posted by SLS on October 23, 2009, at 5:29:29
In reply to Re: Babbles Becoming A Thing Of The Future » SLS, posted by Phillipa on October 22, 2009, at 21:34:30
> I feel put down when someone says not enough posts to post to.
I can understand how you would feel put down. I'm sorry.
> I could seek out other sites as some have said on babble that they visit more than one. My choice is to remain on one board.
As the website has evolved, perhaps it is no longer the right one for you anymore. I do agree that you have the privelege to try to make it what you would like it to be for yourself. However, I don't think it is fair to people who are only trying to get well that you should want to segregate out users of MAO inhibitors, drugs that are clearly psychoactive and therapeutic, such that they are to be discussed on a separaate board, especially when these drugs are to be combined with other psychoactive substances. Again, I ask you, what are your criteria for wanting to exclude MAOIs from discussion on the main board? I'm sure you know that MAOIs were around 30 years before SSRIs were.
I am surprised you feel so adamant in saying that doctors do not make mistakes and that they are never wrong. They can send a man to the moon, but they still can't breed the perfect doctor. I guess if all doctors were perfect, malpractice insurance companies would never have come into existence.
- Scott
Posted by emme on October 23, 2009, at 6:50:28
In reply to Re: Babbles Becoming A Thing Of The Future » emme, posted by Phillipa on October 22, 2009, at 22:39:36
> I feel we're off target it's about making babble a place most feel comfortable posting on. The future. Phillipa
IMO, the meds board is on target in scope. All diagnoses and all meds together. Many people take more than one drug, and those initially on one drug may have to increase that number. I believe people will receive less feedback if the med board were to be split; the more boards there are on a similar topic, the less traffic any one board will receive.
Posted by Phillipa on October 23, 2009, at 11:47:25
In reply to Re: Babbles Becoming A Thing Of The Future » Phillipa, posted by SLS on October 23, 2009, at 5:29:29
Scott I really didn't post that clearly my mistake and apologies. Oh docs definitely make mistakes in my opinion. They have made mistakes with me. Sometimes they just roll their eyes at me when I question them. Hence so important to gather all the information you can before forming a conclusion. Again poor wording on my part. As for the separate boards I'd never want to keep all meds separate. In looking at the med board now it's a mixture of meds. I think I originally suggested the different boards when I felt the majority of posts were on Maois. I was thinking that you wishing for more discussion of complex neurotransmitters would fit more in line with Maois. But then I don't have the knowledge or experience that you do. So I could very well be wrong about your wishes. I myself was hoping neurotransmitters would help to teach the unknowledgeable like myself about them and kind of start from scratch. Like what's dopamine, what meds supply it, what's it's purpose that type of thing. I congratulate you on all the self teaching you've done over the years and am thrilled for you that you're heading for recovery. Yes you did influence me greatly with cymbalta. Compliment to you. I think I've evolved also in now weighing my options. Anyway I'm on your side. Your side is just more advanced than mine a good thing. Just trying to catch up. Impossible for me. I hope I haven't in anyway given the impression that I don't like and respect you and admire you. Cause I do. Love Phillipa
Posted by Nadezda on October 23, 2009, at 23:39:25
In reply to Re: Babbles Becoming A Thing Of The Future » SLS, posted by Phillipa on October 23, 2009, at 11:47:25
I've never noticed a time when the majority of posts were on Maois. Possibly, as time has gone on, Maois have been rediscovered by pdocs and this explains why there's more discussion of them-- if there is.
Nothing makes them less mainstream or more complex than SSRIs or SNRIs, infact they're been around longer and have a clear anti-depressant effect that's at least as strong.
One of the strengths of Babble, imo, is that all the meds are discussed on one board-- so that if you take one med, you can become informed about others. It would greatly disadvantage users of other meds if Maois were segregated, because it would deprive them of easy access to and awareness of an important alternative treatment.. And vice versa, it would make it more difficult for users of maois to gain familiarity with other approaches.. Moreover, it seems to suggest that there's something unacceptable or otherwise questionable about Maois-- otherwise why put them--and not every drug-- to the side?
Altogether, I don't see any benefit to having an Maoi board-- while the disadvantages seem numerous.
Nadezda
Posted by Phillipa on October 24, 2009, at 12:26:23
In reply to Re: Babbles Becoming A Thing Of The Future, posted by Nadezda on October 23, 2009, at 23:39:25
I guess we all have different opinions hence what makes the world go round right? Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on October 24, 2009, at 12:31:55
In reply to Re: Babbles Becoming A Thing Of The Future, posted by Nadezda on October 23, 2009, at 23:39:25
A new thought so then why do we need a separate neurotransmitter board? Why segregate those looking for more complex answers from those looking to understand? Food for thought? I still stand by my belief. Hence if someone wants info on stronger meds check the MAOi board same as now posters can check for more complex info on neurotransmitters. Ultimately it's Bob's board and he will decide the best way to run babble. Boards and all. Not saying he doesn't consider what we write as I'm convinced he does. Phillipa.
Posted by Nadezda on October 24, 2009, at 14:47:51
In reply to Re: Babbles Becoming A Thing Of The Future » Nadezda, posted by Phillipa on October 24, 2009, at 12:31:55
First, Maois are not stronger meds. I'm not sure why you would think that.
Second, there's a obvious distinction between 'neurotransmitters' and "medications" as topics, whereas there is no obvious distinction between "maois" and "other meds except maois" as topics. what you're saying is similar to saying apples and oranges are different topics. when both are obviuosly fruit. Neurotransmitters are substances in the brain; medications are substances produced by pharmaceutical companies that we take-- which may affect neurotransmitters in our brain, but are not themselves neurotransmitters. So clearly, if you're interested in discussing the brain, it's quite different from discussing meds that people have tried and experiences they've had, and questions about possible further treatments.
I have no idea why in your mind maois is a separate category from other meds. Perhaps they stand out to you for some reason--- but basically they're meds, just as ssris, snris, etc are meds. I get the feeling that you have some personal issue with maois.
Nadezda
Posted by emme on October 24, 2009, at 15:21:04
In reply to Re: Babbles Becoming A Thing Of The Future » Nadezda, posted by Phillipa on October 24, 2009, at 12:31:55
> Hence if someone wants info on stronger meds check the MAOi board
Umm...MAOI's are not "stronger" than other classes of antidepressants. They are simply another part of the medicine arsenal. Do you also feel that there should be separate boards for SSRIs, anticonvulsants, etc.? Why do you feel that MAOIs are somehow different?
> same as now posters can check for more complex info on neurotransmitters.
The "neutrotransmitters" board is geared more towards understanding of the mechanisms of action of the brain and the medications. Actually, I think Scott is right that it should be named "neuroscience". That is quite different from what you are proposing, which is arbitrarily separating out one class of medication from a board that routinely discusses dozens of different meds.
Posted by Phillipa on October 24, 2009, at 18:04:49
In reply to Re: Babbles Becoming A Thing Of The Future, posted by Nadezda on October 24, 2009, at 14:47:51
We're all entitled to our opinions you've heard mine. The rest is up to Dr. Bob as it's his site. He will be the one to decide. Off the thread as of now. Have IRL things to continue with like riding in the dark since in the Mountains today. Then post ebay. Night all. Phillipa Strange I wonder why pdocs are relectant to prescribe them sure a mystery to me.
Posted by glydin00 on October 24, 2009, at 19:25:12
In reply to Re: Babbles Becoming A Thing Of The Future » Nadezda, posted by Phillipa on October 24, 2009, at 18:04:49
IMO, the board categories (for lack of a better way to express that) are not utilized as it stands now. The med board has become a catchall for a number of topics belonging on boards such as Health, Alternative, Social... etc... filing of topics only works if there is an effort to file by posters and/or admin. If the above other boards are too slow for responses then eliminate them.
IMO, at least MAOI's are used psych meds. I wish the med board limited itself to psych med discussions. I don't believe there is a need to further subcatagorize the med board into classes of meds but to make it about psych meds.
Posted by Nadezda on October 24, 2009, at 22:15:28
In reply to Re: Babbles Becoming A Thing Of The Future » Nadezda, posted by Phillipa on October 24, 2009, at 18:04:49
Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, of course,
However I notice that you haven't responded to any of the substantive points I made about why it's not a good idea to have a separate Maoi board.
Nadezda
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 26, 2009, at 9:31:36
In reply to Re: Babbles Becoming A Thing Of The Future, posted by glydin00 on October 24, 2009, at 19:25:12
> I was hoping to see a board that is larger in scope than the study of only neurotransmitters. I thought that a board dedicated to pure research in the field of neuroscience might help facilitate a better understanding of the brain and the drugs that are used to treat it. I do not believe that there should be a separation of drug treatments based upon the number of drugs used on the Medication board. The Medication board seems to be doing very well as it now exists.
>
> - Scott> A new thought so then why do we need a separate neurotransmitter board? Why segregate those looking for more complex answers from those looking to understand?
>
> Phillipa.> The "neutrotransmitters" board is geared more towards understanding of the mechanisms of action of the brain and the medications. Actually, I think Scott is right that it should be named "neuroscience".
>
> emmeScott, thanks for explaining. I'm open to trying that. But could you clarify the boundary between Medication and Neuroscience? What would be an example of you'd consider "pure research"? Would research on the mechanisms of action of medications count?
--
> IMO, the meds board is on target in scope. All diagnoses and all meds together. Many people take more than one drug, and those initially on one drug may have to increase that number.
>
> emme> One of the strengths of Babble, imo, is that all the meds are discussed on one board-- so that if you take one med, you can become informed about others.
>
> NadezdaThat's how I feel, too.
--
> IMO, the board categories (for lack of a better way to express that) are not utilized as it stands now. The med board has become a catchall for a number of topics belonging on boards such as Health, Alternative, Social... etc... filing of topics only works if there is an effort to file by posters and/or admin.
>
> glydin00I didn't realize Medication had become such a catchall. Keeping things organized does depend on admin, and maybe I haven't been paying enough attention -- but readers can help not only by posting to the appropriate board, but also by notifying us when others don't.
Thanks for all the input,
Bob
Posted by SLS on October 27, 2009, at 5:47:12
In reply to Re: the board categories, posted by Dr. Bob on October 26, 2009, at 9:31:36
> But could you clarify the boundary between Medication and Neuroscience? What would be an example of you'd consider "pure research"? Would research on the mechanisms of action of medications count?
You asked the right question, that's for sure. I'll need to think about it some more. I don't know that a name change from Neurotransmitters to Neuroscience would increase board usage or separate posts more effectively. However, it is technically more correct to label it Neuroscience because much of the investigation into psychoneurobiology and biological psychiatry involves aspects of biological function outside the realm of neurotransmitters.
One criterion for delineation might be whether or not a study cited is of a clinical nature using humans in an ill state to determine therapeutic effect or side effects. Alternately, using an approved drug to study its effects on synaptic events, brain circuitry, or endocrine responses would be more geared towards Neuroscience. I think subjects like this might be intimidating to some people posting on the main Medication board.
- Scott
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 2, 2009, at 2:35:54
In reply to Re: the board categories » Dr. Bob, posted by SLS on October 27, 2009, at 5:47:12
> You asked the right question, that's for sure. I'll need to think about it some more.
> One criterion for delineation might be whether or not a study cited is of a clinical nature using humans in an ill state to determine therapeutic effect or side effects. Alternately, using an approved drug to study its effects on synaptic events, brain circuitry, or endocrine responses would be more geared towards Neuroscience. I think subjects like this might be intimidating to some people posting on the main Medication board.
That would be one way to do it, and I do think those subjects might be intimidating! Looking at it another way, are there current threads on Meds that you think would be appropriate for Neuroscience? Or current threads on Neurotransmitters that you think wouldn't be?
> I don't know that a name change from Neurotransmitters to Neuroscience would increase board usage or separate posts more effectively. However, it is technically more correct to label it Neuroscience because much of the investigation into psychoneurobiology and biological psychiatry involves aspects of biological function outside the realm of neurotransmitters.
I agree, there's more to that than neurotransmitters. My idea was for it to focus on more advanced medication-related issues including, but not limited to, neurotransmitters.
Bob
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