![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 17 to 41 of 41. Go back in thread:
Posted by fayeroe on December 15, 2008, at 14:17:19
In reply to Re: respect and respectful ness » fayeroe, posted by Dinah on December 15, 2008, at 11:21:17
> "I learned from my parents that I won't get respect if I don't give it."
>
> I agree completely. IMO, as poster, this is the very concept behind the civility guidelines.
>
>Are you saying that I am disrespectful and that is why I am not getting it?
Posted by fayeroe on December 15, 2008, at 14:21:46
In reply to Re: respect and respectful ness » Dinah, posted by fayeroe on December 15, 2008, at 14:17:19
No respect for me is what I'm asking in the above post>
Posted by Dinah on December 15, 2008, at 14:36:24
In reply to Re: respect and respectful ness » Dinah, posted by fayeroe on December 15, 2008, at 14:17:19
I thought it was a general statement, and I responded to it as a general statement.
Posted by caraher on December 15, 2008, at 16:19:34
In reply to I don't think that's ever been the claim here » caraher, posted by Racer on December 15, 2008, at 11:07:45
>Even those who serve as deputies have feelings, and I can speak for myself in saying that my feelings have included a great deal of pain when I've read some of the things posted about deputies on these boards.
I'm sorry you've been hurt. It's certainly a thankless task, and I appreciate the effort deputies put into herding cats.
>
> I do find a certain irony, though, when I read posts about how isolating posters find administrative actions...I think it just goes to show that the set of rules is actually inimical fostering the kind of community many of us would like to form.
Posted by Racer on December 15, 2008, at 17:40:16
In reply to Re: Irony - or a sign?, posted by caraher on December 15, 2008, at 16:19:34
>
> I think it just goes to show that the set of rules is actually inimical fostering the kind of community many of us would like to form.I read the rules as protecting people here, and making sure flame wars don't break out, etc. I don't see them as particularly stifling -- and they're certainly not the strictest or more restrictive I've seen on this sort of board! In fact, I've learned a lot about communicating more effectively because of them -- even if that improvement isn't always readily apparent. ;-)
I am very sorry that so many people appear to find the existing guidelines too restrictive to their ability to express their thoughts. As far as the limitations, I guess I just figure I can say those things elsewhere -- no harm, no foul. What I have felt I needed to say at Babble, I could say at Babble.
Overall, I really feel that both Babble and I have benefited from the civility guidelines, and from having them enforced. I'm very sorry that view doesn't seem to be very widely shared. Then again, a single spice doesn't make for a very interesting stew, so maybe it's not such a bad thing when we don't all agree...
Posted by fayeroe on December 15, 2008, at 19:55:49
In reply to Re: Irony - or a sign?, posted by caraher on December 15, 2008, at 16:19:34
I think that the board is just going to be what the deputies think that Bob wants it to be. He is never here and I can't imagine how tough that has to be.
I'm outta administration now. It is toxic for me and I'm going back to POlitics and hang out with Sigismund and others.
Posted by Sigismund on December 15, 2008, at 20:30:01
In reply to I don't think that's ever been the claim here » caraher, posted by Racer on December 15, 2008, at 11:07:45
>As a result of that decision, I have felt so isolated from other posters that I no longer feel like a poster here, and have not felt like anything except an unpopular monitor since about the time I was "sworn in."
Racer, I'm sorry.
It comes with the territory, I guess.Obviously for someone to be suitable to be a deputy they have to be like a monitor, but having said that, they do a very good job in the here and now....the best it has ever been in my time at Babble.
That's really an achievement.
Thank you all.
Posted by 10derHeart on December 15, 2008, at 21:46:21
In reply to Re: I don't think that's ever been the claim here, posted by Sigismund on December 15, 2008, at 20:30:01
Thanks, Sigi, that was a really nice post to read.
I regret that Racer feels so much that way, too. :-(
I do....sometimes...but not nearly as deeply.
I deeply appreciate you bothering to post this. Posting takes effort and energy.
Posted by seldomseen on December 16, 2008, at 5:50:42
In reply to Re: I don't think that's ever been the claim here » Racer, posted by fayeroe on December 15, 2008, at 11:07:45
No, babble is not the place to just say whatever you feel like saying.
Actually, I think that I will take that back. I think you can express just about about anything you want, you just can't express it in an uncivil manner.
I think the thing I like best about babble is that we can't mount ad hominem attacks if we disagree with something.
One of the best books I ever read about communication is called "Getting to Yes" by Roger Fisher. ALthough it is a method book on the art of negotiation, it really is about communication.
One of the tenets of the book is "be hard on the problem, soft on the people" and I think that pretty much summarizes the civility rules here. Reasonable people can disagree and still be repectful of each other.
Although there is a whiff of "you must conform" to these civility rules, overall, I find it very refreshing to visit an internet message board with rules that are actually enforced.
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 16, 2008, at 6:25:35
In reply to Re: I don't think that's ever been the claim here, posted by seldomseen on December 16, 2008, at 5:50:42
> No, babble is not the place to just say whatever you feel like saying.
>
> Actually, I think that I will take that back. I think you can express just about about anything you want, you just can't express it in an uncivil manner.
>
> I think the thing I like best about babble is that we can't mount ad hominem attacks if we disagree with something.
>
> One of the best books I ever read about communication is called "Getting to Yes" by Roger Fisher. ALthough it is a method book on the art of negotiation, it really is about communication.
>
> One of the tenets of the book is "be hard on the problem, soft on the people" and I think that pretty much summarizes the civility rules here. Reasonable people can disagree and still be repectful of each other.
>
> Although there is a whiff of "you must conform" to these civility rules, overall, I find it very refreshing to visit an internet message board with rules that are actually enforced.Seldomseen,
You wrote,[...with rules that are actually enforced...].
As I read your statement above, I have the following want for infomation so that I could have a better understanding of what your undertsnding is concerning your statement and then if you respond to my concerns I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
A. In,[...with rules that are enforced...], have you done a complete review of all posts here, or just a partial review, or something else, of the posts here to write the statement in question here, as to any determination if all the rules of the forum are enforced or not?
If you could reply here as to which type of review, if any, you have used to write the statement in question here, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
Lou
Posted by Nadezda on December 16, 2008, at 10:21:41
In reply to I don't think that's ever been the claim here » caraher, posted by Racer on December 15, 2008, at 11:07:45
Racer, I'm very sorry to hear that. It certainly doesn't reflect my feelings. I very much appreciate the tact and concern shown by the deputies here. It's extraordinary and really moving to me, that there's real caring expressed, even when people are pbced and blocked,-- and, especially, I notice, when you believe the block may be hurtful.
I know it can be hurtful, or even isolating, to be pbc'ed or blocked, particularly now that the chat is much less popular a hang-out than it was at some times. But I have a lot of respect and good feelings about the deputies here, even when I may take issue with particular things. I just believe there's no way, with the best intentions in the world, that you guys can do that. And I do think you all feel concerned,, not punitive-- and are dedicated more to protecting people than punishing. To me, that always comes through, and is very comforting and re-affirming of my willlingness to be here.
I really feel a bit deprived, I guess, by your absence as a poster. I've always enjoyed knowing your thoughts. And I'm very distressed to know that these threads on admin are causing the deputies a lot of turmoil and heartache. I think that's something that needs to be addressed. Perhaps there are some who take a personal view of things. I hope not many. I know that I don't at all. And that, as I said, I would like to honor your contribution, not decry it.
Again, it's not because I agree with each and every action-- or absence of action-- but because each of you, as an individual person, seems like someone who has taken on a huge responsibility and carried it out with dedication and courage.
I would hate to think that you don't feel one of us, in any way--
I wish there was some way to reassure you, and others, that being part of the community is not something you should need to sacrifice to be a deputy.
Nadezda
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 16, 2008, at 13:05:02
In reply to Lou's request for clarification-typvrevw » seldomseen, posted by Lou Pilder on December 16, 2008, at 6:25:35
> > No, babble is not the place to just say whatever you feel like saying.
> >
> > Actually, I think that I will take that back. I think you can express just about about anything you want, you just can't express it in an uncivil manner.
> >
> > I think the thing I like best about babble is that we can't mount ad hominem attacks if we disagree with something.
> >
> > One of the best books I ever read about communication is called "Getting to Yes" by Roger Fisher. ALthough it is a method book on the art of negotiation, it really is about communication.
> >
> > One of the tenets of the book is "be hard on the problem, soft on the people" and I think that pretty much summarizes the civility rules here. Reasonable people can disagree and still be repectful of each other.
> >
> > Although there is a whiff of "you must conform" to these civility rules, overall, I find it very refreshing to visit an internet message board with rules that are actually enforced.
>
> Seldomseen,
> You wrote,[...with rules that are actually enforced...].
> As I read your statement above, I have the following want for infomation so that I could have a better understanding of what your undertsnding is concerning your statement and then if you respond to my concerns I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
> A. In,[...with rules that are enforced...], have you done a complete review of all posts here, or just a partial review, or something else, of the posts here to write the statement in question here, as to any determination if all the rules of the forum are enforced or not?
> If you could reply here as to which type of review, if any, you have used to write the statement in question here, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
> LouSeldomseen and other interested members,
It is written here,[...with rules that are..enforced...]
I am asking that if you are considering posting in response to the aspects of the statement in question that you consider the aspects in the offered links here.
The first link is to a post that says for members something like to not post links to sites that have anti-Semitism in it. The post is by Dinah reminding members that Mr. Hsiung had posted not to do that. His post used an emphatic in it, which was to not post to those kind of sites {period}, which generally means without exception. Now this is in regards that the subject here now is enforcment of rules here. If you would like the link to Mr. Hsiung's post, you could email me if you like. The post by Dinah as a reminder of the directive is (citation asm 13)
Now has not also Mr. Hsiung agreed that if there is no sanction to a statement that that means that members could think that no rule has been broken? Mr. Hsiung also states that he takes esponsibility for what he posts. This is in (citation duknoghhrm 17).
Then I would like for those considering to post here to read the thread where this link brings it up in (citation enpfor 23)
Then I would like for interested members to examine the following thread that the link brings up in (citation asmal 15).
Lou
(citation asm 13)
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social//20020523/msgs/24558.html
(citation duknoghhrm 17)
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20041109/msgs/423771.html
(citation empfor 23)
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20081003/msgs/855404.html
(citation asmal 15)
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20041109/msgs/429282.html
Posted by lucie lu on December 16, 2008, at 14:57:14
In reply to I don't think that's ever been the claim here » caraher, posted by Racer on December 15, 2008, at 11:07:45
> So no, this isn't a place where people are allowed full and free expression. Personally, I think the guidelines are a good idea, because they do protect some of the more vulnerable posters here. I also believe in them because I think they're helpful for teaching a certain sort of communication skill, which I do believe is valuable.
Racer,As one who sometimes feels emotionally vulnerable :) I thank you for protecting the civility guidelines. I don't know much about other boards but I do think that the psych board is pretty unique. Unlike meds, politics, or a range of other topical boards which no doubt might thrive on, and maybe even be spiced up by, a more free-wheeling posting style, the psych board has a decidedly different tone and, I believe, raison d'etre.
On the psych board, people are "free" to talk about very personal things that are nearly impossible to talk about anywhere else in their lives. This freedom is created by the explicit expectation of civility from other posters. Interesting how this is a distinctly alternate interpretation of "free speech."
People simply will not talk freely, openly and honestly about highly sensitive, personal material in the absence of some civility guidelines for the board. Because that is exactly the environment that exists outside of Babble, where talking freely about these things is really difficult or impossible. The psych board is fairly unique in that it is open yet protected cyberspace, which fosters its existence and mission. It is, to my knowledge, unusual among bulletin boards precisely because of the civility guidelines. On the contrary, "free (unrestricted)speech" seems to be found *everywhere* on-line or off, for that matter.
It has been written in many posts on many threads already, so I won't reiterate, that civility does not imply lack of disagreement or controversy, only some restraint in how it is expressed. To my mind, this would be a more refreshing way to discuss a controversial topic, anyway.
I want to note that my comments concern only the psych board, since that is where I post almost exclusively. If it were not for the civility guidelines, the willingness of the psych board posters to respect those guidelines, and deputies to help protect the guidelines, I frankly would have no use for Babble at all. There are plenty of other boards out there on the 'net, but IMO none with this unique sense of community.
Since not all boards are the same, perhaps different civility guidelines can be used on different boards? Then again, I guess, without the guidelines, this wouldn't be Babble, but someplace else.
Lucie
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 16, 2008, at 17:43:31
In reply to Lou's request for members to consider-enpfor, posted by Lou Pilder on December 16, 2008, at 13:05:02
> > > No, babble is not the place to just say whatever you feel like saying.
> > >
> > > Actually, I think that I will take that back. I think you can express just about about anything you want, you just can't express it in an uncivil manner.
> > >
> > > I think the thing I like best about babble is that we can't mount ad hominem attacks if we disagree with something.
> > >
> > > One of the best books I ever read about communication is called "Getting to Yes" by Roger Fisher. ALthough it is a method book on the art of negotiation, it really is about communication.
> > >
> > > One of the tenets of the book is "be hard on the problem, soft on the people" and I think that pretty much summarizes the civility rules here. Reasonable people can disagree and still be repectful of each other.
> > >
> > > Although there is a whiff of "you must conform" to these civility rules, overall, I find it very refreshing to visit an internet message board with rules that are actually enforced.
> >
> > Seldomseen,
> > You wrote,[...with rules that are actually enforced...].
> > As I read your statement above, I have the following want for infomation so that I could have a better understanding of what your undertsnding is concerning your statement and then if you respond to my concerns I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
> > A. In,[...with rules that are enforced...], have you done a complete review of all posts here, or just a partial review, or something else, of the posts here to write the statement in question here, as to any determination if all the rules of the forum are enforced or not?
> > If you could reply here as to which type of review, if any, you have used to write the statement in question here, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
> > Lou
>
> Seldomseen and other interested members,
> It is written here,[...with rules that are..enforced...]
> I am asking that if you are considering posting in response to the aspects of the statement in question that you consider the aspects in the offered links here.
> The first link is to a post that says for members something like to not post links to sites that have anti-Semitism in it. The post is by Dinah reminding members that Mr. Hsiung had posted not to do that. His post used an emphatic in it, which was to not post to those kind of sites {period}, which generally means without exception. Now this is in regards that the subject here now is enforcment of rules here. If you would like the link to Mr. Hsiung's post, you could email me if you like. The post by Dinah as a reminder of the directive is (citation asm 13)
> Now has not also Mr. Hsiung agreed that if there is no sanction to a statement that that means that members could think that no rule has been broken? Mr. Hsiung also states that he takes esponsibility for what he posts. This is in (citation duknoghhrm 17).
> Then I would like for those considering to post here to read the thread where this link brings it up in (citation enpfor 23)
> Then I would like for interested members to examine the following thread that the link brings up in (citation asmal 15).
> Lou
> (citation asm 13)
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social//20020523/msgs/24558.html
> (citation duknoghhrm 17)
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20041109/msgs/423771.html
> (citation empfor 23)
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20081003/msgs/855404.html
> (citation asmal 15)
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20041109/msgs/429282.htmlFriends,
In regards to that a member posts here that rules are enforced, one of the ways that rules are enforced is by members notifying the adfministration to help enforce those rules.
I am asking that if you are going to post in this thread that you consider that I have many outstanding notifications that if replied to, could help IMO to enforce rules here. You could email me if you like to see all the notifications of mine that are outstanding.
Lou
Posted by Kath on December 16, 2008, at 21:27:35
In reply to I don't think that's ever been the claim here » caraher, posted by Racer on December 15, 2008, at 11:07:45
> As a result of that decision, I have felt so isolated from other posters that I no longer feel like a poster here, and have not felt like anything except an unpopular monitor since about the time I was "sworn in."
~ ~ ~Oh Racer - that makes me feel so sad!!
What a huge loss for us all. Oh DARN. When you do post, they are so special. I am very sorry that you no longer feel like a poster here. :-(
A part of me wants to FIX IT. Actually, a fairly big part - in that the selfish part of me that likes you & enjoys your posts wants there to be more of them. I also wish it were not so, in that how sad that must feel.
I certainly don't think of you as anything negative at all.
xoxoxo Kath
Posted by ron1953 on December 27, 2008, at 21:32:03
In reply to Re: I don't think that's ever been the claim here » fayeroe, posted by Deputy Dinah on December 15, 2008, at 11:18:58
"Please respect the views of others even if you think they're wrong. Please be sensitive to their feelings even if yours are hurt. Different points of view are fine, and in fact encouraged, but your freedom of speech is limited here. It can be therapeutic to express yourself, but this isn't necessarily the place."
This is a direct quote from the FAQ. If you or anyone else has any questions about the guidelines for this site, they may be found in the FAQ.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Dinah, acting as deputy to Dr. Bob
Dinah: Do you have a FAQ for life in general?
Posted by gardenergirl on December 28, 2008, at 1:38:09
In reply to Re: I don't think that's ever been the claim here, posted by ron1953 on December 27, 2008, at 21:32:03
> Dinah: Do you have a FAQ for life in general?
Do you need one?
gg
Posted by fayeroe on December 28, 2008, at 10:44:38
In reply to Re: I don't think that's ever been the claim here » ron1953, posted by gardenergirl on December 28, 2008, at 1:38:09
> > Dinah: Do you have a FAQ for life in general?
>
> Do you need one?
>
> ggDo you?
>
>
Posted by Dinah on December 28, 2008, at 14:14:51
In reply to Re: I don't think that's ever been the claim here, posted by ron1953 on December 27, 2008, at 21:32:03
I have a set of guidelines by which I govern my behavior, yes.
As I've said before, I sometimes fall short of the mark.
Posted by muffled on December 28, 2008, at 15:54:30
In reply to Re: I don't think that's ever been the claim here, posted by ron1953 on December 27, 2008, at 21:32:03
> Dinah: Do you have a FAQ for life in general?
My FAQ for life is.....WHY?
Most definately that is my #1 question.
I ask my T that alot.
I ask my God that alot.
I ask myself this alot.
Why this, why that, why did I do that? Why do I do what I do. Why am I the way I am? Why did things happenthe way they did? Why do bad things happen to kids? to anybody.
Why.
Best wishes.
It kinda made me laff, a FAQ for life.
Bet mine is pretty common!
Take care,
:-)
M
Posted by 10derHeart on December 28, 2008, at 18:37:33
In reply to :-), posted by muffled on December 28, 2008, at 15:54:30
Me, too, muffled!!
You are reading my mind again! (scary place?!!)
I try to let my source of answers for the FAQ be the Bible, but to borrow Dinah's expression, I often fall short by 'forgetting' to look there, or 'forgetting' the guidance I get.
We humans...we're tough nuts to crack, eh?
--10der
Posted by gardenergirl on December 30, 2008, at 16:19:03
In reply to Re: I don't think that's ever been the claim here, posted by fayeroe on December 28, 2008, at 10:44:38
> > > Dinah: Do you have a FAQ for life in general?
> >
> > Do you need one?
> >
> > gg
>
> Do you?
> >Oh, I love this game! Okay, my turn now...
Is there such a thing?
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on January 1, 2009, at 21:51:19
In reply to Re: I don't think that's ever been the claim here » fayeroe, posted by gardenergirl on December 30, 2008, at 16:19:03
Phooey, is that all there is?
Posted by Partlycloudy on January 2, 2009, at 7:01:04
In reply to Re: I don't think that's ever been the claim here, posted by gardenergirl on January 1, 2009, at 21:51:19
Maybe this isn't a game.
Posted by gardenergirl on January 2, 2009, at 13:48:38
In reply to Re: I don't think that's ever been the claim here » gardenergirl, posted by Partlycloudy on January 2, 2009, at 7:01:04
I'm sorry for distracting from your thread. I should have, at the very least, changed the subject line since I was responding to a specific, tangential post. Better still would have been to start my own thread or just be silly to myself. I'll try to be more aware of the whole and the situation in the future instead of blurting, something I still need to work on.
With regret,
gg
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Administration | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.