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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by okydoky on July 25, 2008, at 20:57:17
In reply to Please be civil » okydoky, posted by Deputy 10derHeart on July 25, 2008, at 20:09:14
I appreciate you wanting to support johnj and/or other posters here (if I understood your overall post correctly)"
You completely misunderstood the entire intent of my post if this was even remotely what you came away with.
I do not consider this kindergarten where I take sides with my "friends". I have had little if any interaction with any of these posters.
This site is supposed to be supportive and in that vein I do not think that caring people should turn their heads and watch in silence when in their opinion someone has a problem. I do not want to restate all that I wrote here. I have had a lot of problems in this area and am always grateful for the constructive criticism. More grateful if it is said sooner than later, so that I can evaluate it for myself and make corrections if I think I have a problem.
These things are opinions but there seemed to be a consensus of sorts which included me and I had not been brave nor caring enough to speak out.
We are doing ourselves and others a great disservice on this site if we do not correct posters behaviors or statements whether it be medication related (this is the medication site!) or something else. It is my expectation of support, which is not by definition always congratulatory.
Posted by 10derHeart on July 26, 2008, at 0:21:38
In reply to Re: Please be civil Deputy 10derHeart, posted by okydoky on July 25, 2008, at 20:57:17
> You completely misunderstood the entire intent of my post if this was even remotely what you came away with.
I apologize. When you said this near the beginning:
"I wish you all the best and hope you come back occationally for your own benefit," I thought the "you" referred to johnj, as you directed your post to him. I understand now that I was mistaken.
>I had not been brave nor caring enough to speak out
I wonder if you aren't being a little hard on yourself about that?
> We are doing ourselves and others a great disservice on this site if we do not correct posters behaviors or statements whether it be medication related (this is the medication site!) or something else. It is my expectation of support, which is not by definition always congratulatory.
Certainly that could be one way of giving support. But no matter how you choose to show support for others here, Dr. Bob asks we maintain the civility guidelines by not negatively characterizing other posters' behaviors, posts, etc. So perhaps Babble isn't always necessarily the place to express every type of support?
I'm sorry if I've offended you in any way by my shortcomings in understanding your post.
Respectfully,
-- 10derHeart
Posted by okydoky on July 26, 2008, at 10:24:01
In reply to Re: misunderstanding » okydoky, posted by 10derHeart on July 26, 2008, at 0:21:38
" So perhaps Babble isn't always necessarily the place to express every type of support?"
Having worked in a setting where I was a "social worker" and the "members" were to tasked with the responsibility for other members behaviors or problems with interactions in "mainstream" society as is usual in most group settings I believe I think I was being kind of idealistic here and not recognizing that the "deputies" are here to address problems on the site and that some things are not defined as problems. It is not member driven. The site has its' own definition.When all is said and done I do think it is a shame that in the end caring people posting on this site or its "deputies" are preempted from helping another or even discussing a possible problem someone might have.
It is in the end the person that might have the problem that looses out. That person could be me after all.
I have said enough on the topic. It is what it is.
Posted by Justherself54 on July 26, 2008, at 16:11:50
In reply to Re: misunderstanding, posted by okydoky on July 26, 2008, at 10:24:01
I just reread the whole thread and I'm still feeling quite distressd about it. For myself, I came to Babble to ask questions and for support. My wish would be for all posters to realize that many of us are very fragile and we come here for respect, acceptance and understanding, something that is truly hard to find in the real world. For me, to be accepted "warts and all" is support in its truest form.
Posted by gardenergirl on July 26, 2008, at 16:20:47
In reply to Re: Please be civil Deputy 10derHeart, posted by okydoky on July 25, 2008, at 20:57:17
>
> These things are opinions but there seemed to be a consensus of sorts which included meI do not believe there has been enough input on this matter even to begin to approach a consensus. Though admittedly, I do not know what set or subset of posters you include in your assessment.
gg
Posted by okydoky on July 26, 2008, at 16:57:14
In reply to Re: Support, posted by Justherself54 on July 26, 2008, at 16:11:50
I agree with you. Please do not be distressed. We all have "warts" of one kind or another. I too am looking for "respect, acceptance and understanding,"
You write "For me, to be accepted "warts and all" is support in its truest form."
I truly do not know how to clarify myself any further.
I think in my original post on "medicine" I provided a personal example.
This site does not provide for some types of support. It is not the end all for everything.
It is what it is and there is nothing more I can say on the matter.
Posted by okydoky on July 26, 2008, at 17:23:20
In reply to Consensus » okydoky, posted by gardenergirl on July 26, 2008, at 16:20:47
Posted by okydoky on July 27, 2008, at 10:51:05
In reply to Re: misunderstanding » okydoky, posted by 10derHeart on July 26, 2008, at 0:21:38
"So perhaps Babble isn't always necessarily the place to express every type of support?"
I just forgot to thank you for putting this all in perspective.
Posted by 10derHeart on July 27, 2008, at 13:29:31
In reply to Re: misunderstanding » 10derHeart, posted by okydoky on July 27, 2008, at 10:51:05
Posted by jammerlich on July 27, 2008, at 16:51:19
In reply to Consensus » okydoky, posted by gardenergirl on July 26, 2008, at 16:20:47
>>> I do not believe there has been enough input on this matter even to begin to approach a consensus.And there probably never will be, since posting in support of one of the "sides" would likely result in a block or PBC. The fact that it's not seen on the boards doesn't necessarily mean it isn't there.
Posted by gardenergirl on July 27, 2008, at 18:35:12
In reply to Re: Consensus » gardenergirl, posted by jammerlich on July 27, 2008, at 16:51:19
The existence of "sides" indicates there is no consensus.
gg
Posted by jammerlich on July 27, 2008, at 19:27:53
In reply to Re: Consensus » jammerlich, posted by gardenergirl on July 27, 2008, at 18:35:12
> The existence of "sides" indicates there is no consensus.
Some definitions of "consensus" from dictionary.com:
"majority of opinion: The consensus of the group was that they should meet twice a month."
"the feeling of most people"
So, I think a case can be made that the existence of "sides" does not necessarily negate the presence of a consensus. Perhaps you're confusing a consensus with unanimous group?
Jammer
Posted by gardenergirl on July 27, 2008, at 22:08:12
In reply to Re: Consensus » gardenergirl, posted by jammerlich on July 27, 2008, at 19:27:53
Ah, I've always used it as in Merriam-Webster:
1 a: general agreement : unanimity <the consensus of their opinion, based on reportsfrom the border John Hersey> b: the judgment arrived at by most of those concerned <the consensus was to go ahead>2: group solidarity in sentiment and beliefInteresting differences between two dictionaries. Guess one better be choosy about which book one swallows whole? ;)
Personally, I choose Jif.
gg
Posted by jammerlich on July 27, 2008, at 22:33:02
In reply to Re: Consensus » jammerlich, posted by gardenergirl on July 27, 2008, at 22:08:12
I suppose my point is that it's helpful to realize we come from different places and bring different meanings to every situation. Thus, it seems important that we not make certain statements as if they were fact, when there are many different "dictionaries" in use. Just becuase you or I use a particular one doesn't mean everyone else does. So, we best get the meaning behind the words first.
From this post:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20080719/msgs/842438.htmlI thought you'd be all about this sort of thing. I do apologize if I misunderstood.
Posted by gardenergirl on July 27, 2008, at 22:51:29
In reply to Re: Consensus » gardenergirl, posted by jammerlich on July 27, 2008, at 22:33:02
You make an excellent point, and I appreciate that you explained. I guess this is one of those words I'd never heard used in any other fashion than to indicate group agreement, so I could not see how there could be a consensus as I know it. So my confidence in my knowledge was somewhat misplaced. A good thing to be reminded of.
In making my point with confidence, though, I was doing so with the knowledge that I did not agree, and that there are others who did not agree. Given my understanding of the definition, that fails to meet it.
Anyway, I never say I'm never wrong. I challenge the statements of fact that others make if I believe they are wrong. Certainly anyone is entitled to do so with me.
gg
This is the end of the thread.
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