![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 42. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by JeffSmith on December 31, 2006, at 11:08:24
Hey Everyone... Im new and I dont know if this is the appropriate forum for this but Ill try it here anyway.
I despise being censored and told which words I can and cannot use like a child... but I play nice by the rules.
Ive noticed the following things, not just on this message board but elsewhere as well:
Posting "foul/Offensive" words is prohibited HOWEVER as long as you post the word leaving just one letter out and replacing it with a * then it seems perfectly acceptable.
I find this to be absurdly ridiculous: If the words F*ck, Sh*t, C*ck, C*nt, etc, are written then EVERYONE who's not blind can obviously see exactly what the words still say... nobody's being fooled into thinking its not the same exact "offensive" word it was before a letter was removed from it. So if anyones offended by the full spelling of the words then wouldnt they be just as equally offended by the words not so cleverly disguised by that stupid asterisk?
It really seems completely illogical, unless Im just missing the logical point entirely?
Any thoughts on this matter?
Posted by zenhussy on December 31, 2006, at 11:08:24
In reply to The No Offensive Language Rule, posted by JeffSmith on December 31, 2006, at 9:49:56
Posted by Emme on December 31, 2006, at 11:08:24
In reply to The No Offensive Language Rule, posted by JeffSmith on December 31, 2006, at 9:49:56
> It really seems completely illogical, unless Im just missing the logical point entirely?
> Any thoughts on this matter?Subst1tut1ng symb01s S33ms 1ll0g1c@l t0 m3 @ls0. W3 c@n @all r3@d b3tw33n th3 *s. But 1 @ssum3 1t must m@k3 @ d1ff3r3nc3 t0 s0m3 f01ks @nd 1 s33 1t @s a m1n0r 1ssu3. 1 h0p3 th1s p0st 1s c1v1l.
emme
P.S. h1nt: 3 = e.
Posted by jylisnotlaughing on December 31, 2006, at 12:16:53
In reply to Re: The No Offensive Language Rule » JeffSmith, posted by Emme on December 31, 2006, at 10:34:55
were you being sarcastic towards jeff?
Posted by JeffSmith on December 31, 2006, at 12:24:29
In reply to Re: The No Offensive Language Rule » Emme, posted by jylisnotlaughing on December 31, 2006, at 12:16:53
> were you being sarcastic towards jeff?
Thats exactly what I was wondering too.
Posted by rayww on December 31, 2006, at 12:37:29
In reply to Re: The No Offensive Language Rule » JeffSmith, posted by Emme on December 31, 2006, at 10:34:55
There are all types of people who post here, and emme, you are definately one of them. What you wrote was so funny. I could read it if I went fast. It supports Jeff's point that the brain can read whatever. Thanks for the laugh.
rayww
Posted by Emme on December 31, 2006, at 12:41:34
In reply to Re: The No Offensive Language Rule » Emme, posted by jylisnotlaughing on December 31, 2006, at 12:16:53
> were you being sarcastic towards jeff?
Not in the least. I was bascially agreeing with him and trying to inject a little humor at the same time. I enjoy wordplay.
emme
Posted by JeffSmith on December 31, 2006, at 12:55:32
In reply to Re: The No Offensive Language Rule » jylisnotlaughing, posted by Emme on December 31, 2006, at 12:41:34
> > were you being sarcastic towards jeff?
>
> Not in the least. I was bascially agreeing with him and trying to inject a little humor at the same time. I enjoy wordplay.
>
> emmeOh, I see. : )
I couldnt tell if you were being sarcastic/or mocking me either and so I (of course) assumed the worst.
Posted by jylisnotlaughing on December 31, 2006, at 13:09:06
In reply to Re: The No Offensive Language Rule » jylisnotlaughing, posted by Emme on December 31, 2006, at 12:41:34
emme..
the internet is so hard, because i was being sarcastic (with fun intended) to you :)
Posted by Emme on December 31, 2006, at 14:44:47
In reply to Re: The No Offensive Language Rule, posted by jylisnotlaughing on December 31, 2006, at 13:09:06
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 31, 2006, at 16:00:23
In reply to The No Offensive Language Rule, posted by JeffSmith on December 31, 2006, at 9:49:56
> if anyones offended by the full spelling of the words then wouldnt they be just as equally offended by the words not so cleverly disguised by that stupid asterisk?
Would it be better just not to allow the words at all?
Bob
Posted by muffled on December 31, 2006, at 16:25:02
In reply to Re: The No Offensive Language Rule, posted by Dr. Bob on December 31, 2006, at 16:00:23
> Would it be better just not to allow the words at all?
>
> BobNoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
I could not express myself w/o swears.
I would explode.
Muffled
Posted by Emme on December 31, 2006, at 16:31:00
In reply to Re: The No Offensive Language Rule, posted by Dr. Bob on December 31, 2006, at 16:00:23
> > if anyones offended by the full spelling of the words then wouldnt they be just as equally offended by the words not so cleverly disguised by that stupid asterisk?
>
> Would it be better just not to allow the words at all?
>
> BobI've thought briefly about that. On the one hand, I don't particularly like swear words. But then I'm not horribly offended by them either.
Ideally, this would be a place where everyone feels comfortable reading and I imagine there may be people who feel more strongly anti-swearing. But as I see it, there are already a lot of administrative issues surrounding rules and I would not like to see that increased. As long as they are not directed at anyone, I see swear words as a minor issue compared to things like personal attacks, DNPs, etc.
Perhaps a poll could be taken on this question?
emme
Posted by sunnydays on December 31, 2006, at 21:07:12
In reply to Re: The No Offensive Language Rule, posted by Dr. Bob on December 31, 2006, at 16:00:23
I think they are sometimes necessary. Many people just don't have other words, or a strong word can seem necessary to explain something. I don't use swear words myself, but that's more because of how much I heard them used growing up and wanting to be different than that. I'm not offended in the least when other people use them. Personally, I really think they should be allowed, and continue the asterisking.
sunnydays
Posted by JeffSmith on January 1, 2007, at 18:06:19
In reply to Re: The No Offensive Language Rule, posted by Dr. Bob on December 31, 2006, at 16:00:23
> > if anyones offended by the full spelling of the words then wouldnt they be just as equally offended by the words not so cleverly disguised by that stupid asterisk?
>
> Would it be better just not to allow the words at all?
>
> BobIm trying to figure out why you would even ask me that question when its perfectly clear from my original post that my answer would obviously be "No, it wouldnt be better".
Is that your way of saying "Just be grateful for being allowed to use those words in censored form"?
Posted by muffled on January 2, 2007, at 0:38:13
In reply to Re: The No Offensive Language Rule, posted by JeffSmith on January 1, 2007, at 18:06:19
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 3, 2007, at 3:31:39
In reply to Re: The No Offensive Language Rule, posted by JeffSmith on January 1, 2007, at 18:06:19
> > Would it be better just not to allow the words at all?
>
> its perfectly clear from my original post that my answer would obviously be "No, it wouldnt be better".OK. I don't think the asterisks make things worse, so if we keep the words, let's keep the asterisks, too?
Bob
Posted by JeffSmith on January 4, 2007, at 17:43:27
In reply to Re: The No Offensive Language Rule, posted by Dr. Bob on January 3, 2007, at 3:31:39
> > > Would it be better just not to allow the words at all?
> >
> > its perfectly clear from my original post that my answer would obviously be "No, it wouldnt be better".
>
> OK. I don't think the asterisks make things worse, so if we keep the words, let's keep the asterisks, too?
>
> BobWell since you asked : )
I say that the asterisks do make things worse, and so if we keep the words then lets not keep the asterisks.
I could elaborate forever on why but Ill spare you my rant as I doubt it would change anything... and I should probably focus on the 1000 other problems I have rather than this.
Posted by 10derHeart on January 4, 2007, at 18:45:39
In reply to Re: The No Offensive Language Rule » Dr. Bob, posted by JeffSmith on January 4, 2007, at 17:43:27
They don't make things worse for me. I like them. I think they help maintain a little bit of a kinder, gentler, more civilized community, as a whole, here.
And this is from someone who spent 22+ years in the military and can keep up in a swearing contest with most anyone. But...there's are times and places to choose to temper that (eg, use of asterisks), or not to speak that way at all. It seems nice to me for Babble to be one of those places.
Vulgarities have their purpose, perhaps, and can be an effective way to express very strong feelings. But OTOH, that sort of language also may upset folks and make for a harsher way of communicating overall. And harsh can become stressful, confusing, even hurtful sometimes.
The asterisks seem like a pretty good compromise, something that is hard to come by here at times, and so is a valuable thing to hang on to.
Just my few cents worth :-)
Posted by NikkiT2 on January 5, 2007, at 7:42:58
In reply to Re: The No Offensive Language Rule » Dr. Bob, posted by JeffSmith on January 4, 2007, at 17:43:27
So, because you are not offended by ~any~ offesnive words, no one else is?
Personally, most don't bother me.. but I know some bother others, and in my world, I like to take their feelings into account.
One certain word DOES offend me.. I do not like any word that takes a part of the female anatomy and turns it into an offensive word. Do we allow all others but not that one? Or allow that one and not worry about all the women (and men) who find that word horrible offensive?
Yes, some of the milder, more simple ones, it does seem a little silly to block.. but, where do you draw the line? Thats the problem.
Nikki
Posted by JeffSmith on January 5, 2007, at 12:58:30
In reply to Re: The No Offensive Language Rule » JeffSmith, posted by NikkiT2 on January 5, 2007, at 7:42:58
> So, because you are not offended by ~any~ offensive words, no one else is?
Did I say that? : ) No, I never said because Im not offended by ~any~ offensive words no one else is. And I also never said that I was not offended by ~any~ offensive words... but I will now: Personally Im not offended in the slightest bit by the mere act of my eyes reading any "offensive" words on a message board... especially if the offensive word was not specifically directed at me in an attempt to offend/hurt me. But in this thread we were never even talking about people being offended by offensive words as a topic, and what I originally said was only that it was illogical and ridiculous to censor certain words by replacing one letter of a particular word with an asterisk.
> Personally, most don't bother me.. but I know some bother others, and in my world, I like to take their feelings into account.I also take other peoples feelings into account in my world.
> One certain word DOES offend me.. I do not like any word that takes a part of the female anatomy and turns it into an offensive word. Do we allow all others but not that one? Or allow that one and not worry about all the women (and men) who find that word horrible offensive?
OK well I can actually think of two words that do what you described, so I'll assume you dont like either one of them.
Do we allow all other words but that one (or two)? No, IMO we allow all words equally. So, you then ask do we allow that word and not worry about the women/men who are horribly offended by that word?
Short answer is: Yes, we allow that word and not worry about the offended people.
Longer answer and explanation is this: Again, we werent talking about whether *words* should be allowed here or not, we were talking about whether they should be censored or not.
The word(s) you refer to already are (presumably) allowed here as long as the "u" in the word(s) is replaced by the asterisk. So the word very well could possibly be written here in censored form and you just may happen to stumble upon it and read it, right?
Lets pretend I wrote a post claiming "My mother is a total b*tch" (I wrote b*tch in the example but lets really pretend I had instead used the "C" word that offends you).
Now you come along and read my post and see the word b*tch (aka:the "C" word) that I just called my mother.
Are you saying then that you'd be "horribly offended" by the simple act of reading a word that wasnt even directed at or about you?? Just seeing the word "b*tch" written down causes you to become horribly offended?
OK, fine, so lets assume that does horribly offend you. So what does that mean? What exactly happens to you after reading a word that horribly offends you? How are you harmed? Are you left so affected that you'd be unable to continue reading my post? Does being horribly offended mean that you cant go on to read any other post here? Does it make you never want to visit here again?
How exactly does me calling my mother a b*tch affect you?And why should any of that be left up to me to have to "worry" about?
Lets pretend Im extremely upset with my mother and I want to come here (a place where I can vent any emotion or feeling and people will listen, probably not judge, may relate to my issue and maybe even help me) and I just need to vent by saying "My mother is a real b*tch ("C" word)!". Are you suggesting that I should stop myself, and all my thoughts, just to first think "Well so and so may be left to feel 'horribly offended' (whatever that means) if I call my mother a b*tch, so I better first try to come up with a non-offensive term or discription to express how Im feeling about her instead of using that word"??
If just reading a certain word that's in no way directed towards or about you causes you, or anyone, to feel a certain way then thats your issue to "worry" about and you shouldnt expect other people in an adult forum to not use certain words just so youre not somehow offended. No?
What if the word "Crazy" horribly offended me and I preferred that people not use that word and instead use "Mentally Ill"? Should the word "Crazy" then not be allowed to be used here?Anyway, as of now these words are apparently allowed here as long as one letter is replaced by an asterisk... so let me ask you this:
The "C" word offends you when written (and I assume also when its spoken). How do you feel about the "C" word if its written here in censored form, as in "c*nt"? Does it still offend you? Are you equally or less offended by the censored version as you are by reading the non censored version?
If youre equally offended then do you believe that the "C" word should not be allowed here even in censored form?
If youre less offended, or not offended at all, by the censored version then can you please explain exactly how and why that is when you are still fully aware of what the word is? I just cant comprehend that concept and am trying to understand it.> Yes, some of the milder, more simple ones, it does seem a little silly to block.. but, where do you draw the line? Thats the problem.
>
> NikkiI agree. : ) And where do you draw the line?
No, it wouldnt really be at all difficult for me to just simply censor my words or not use them at all if it pleases other people... Im 100% for being kind and civil and compassionate towards each other... but IMO censoring or ommitting certain words in order to prevent the possibility of certain people from becoming offended (by just reading them on a message board) is wrong to expect.
Not a huge issue though.
Posted by JeffSmith on January 5, 2007, at 13:01:30
In reply to Re: The No Offensive Language Rule » JeffSmith, posted by 10derHeart on January 4, 2007, at 18:45:39
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 5, 2007, at 17:17:02
In reply to Re: The No Offensive Language Rule » NikkiT2, posted by JeffSmith on January 5, 2007, at 12:58:30
> > So, because you are not offended by ~any~ offensive words, no one else is?
>
> Did I say that? : ) No, I never said because Im not offended by ~any~ offensive words no one else is. And I also never said that I was not offended by ~any~ offensive words... but I will now: Personally Im not offended in the slightest bit by the mere act of my eyes reading any "offensive" words on a message board... especially if the offensive word was not specifically directed at me in an attempt to offend/hurt me. But in this thread we were never even talking about people being offended by offensive words as a topic, and what I originally said was only that it was illogical and ridiculous to censor certain words by replacing one letter of a particular word with an asterisk.
>
> > Personally, most don't bother me.. but I know some bother others, and in my world, I like to take their feelings into account.
>
> I also take other peoples feelings into account in my world.
>
> > One certain word DOES offend me.. I do not like any word that takes a part of the female anatomy and turns it into an offensive word. Do we allow all others but not that one? Or allow that one and not worry about all the women (and men) who find that word horrible offensive?
>
> OK well I can actually think of two words that do what you described, so I'll assume you dont like either one of them.
> Do we allow all other words but that one (or two)? No, IMO we allow all words equally. So, you then ask do we allow that word and not worry about the women/men who are horribly offended by that word?
> Short answer is: Yes, we allow that word and not worry about the offended people.
> Longer answer and explanation is this: Again, we werent talking about whether *words* should be allowed here or not, we were talking about whether they should be censored or not.
> The word(s) you refer to already are (presumably) allowed here as long as the "u" in the word(s) is replaced by the asterisk. So the word very well could possibly be written here in censored form and you just may happen to stumble upon it and read it, right?
> Lets pretend I wrote a post claiming "My mother is a total b*tch" (I wrote b*tch in the example but lets really pretend I had instead used the "C" word that offends you).
> Now you come along and read my post and see the word b*tch (aka:the "C" word) that I just called my mother.
> Are you saying then that you'd be "horribly offended" by the simple act of reading a word that wasnt even directed at or about you?? Just seeing the word "b*tch" written down causes you to become horribly offended?
> OK, fine, so lets assume that does horribly offend you. So what does that mean? What exactly happens to you after reading a word that horribly offends you? How are you harmed? Are you left so affected that you'd be unable to continue reading my post? Does being horribly offended mean that you cant go on to read any other post here? Does it make you never want to visit here again?
> How exactly does me calling my mother a b*tch affect you?
>
> And why should any of that be left up to me to have to "worry" about?
> Lets pretend Im extremely upset with my mother and I want to come here (a place where I can vent any emotion or feeling and people will listen, probably not judge, may relate to my issue and maybe even help me) and I just need to vent by saying "My mother is a real b*tch ("C" word)!". Are you suggesting that I should stop myself, and all my thoughts, just to first think "Well so and so may be left to feel 'horribly offended' (whatever that means) if I call my mother a b*tch, so I better first try to come up with a non-offensive term or discription to express how Im feeling about her instead of using that word"??
> If just reading a certain word that's in no way directed towards or about you causes you, or anyone, to feel a certain way then thats your issue to "worry" about and you shouldnt expect other people in an adult forum to not use certain words just so youre not somehow offended. No?
> What if the word "Crazy" horribly offended me and I preferred that people not use that word and instead use "Mentally Ill"? Should the word "Crazy" then not be allowed to be used here?
>
> Anyway, as of now these words are apparently allowed here as long as one letter is replaced by an asterisk... so let me ask you this:
> The "C" word offends you when written (and I assume also when its spoken). How do you feel about the "C" word if its written here in censored form, as in "c*nt"? Does it still offend you? Are you equally or less offended by the censored version as you are by reading the non censored version?
> If youre equally offended then do you believe that the "C" word should not be allowed here even in censored form?
> If youre less offended, or not offended at all, by the censored version then can you please explain exactly how and why that is when you are still fully aware of what the word is? I just cant comprehend that concept and am trying to understand it.
>
> > Yes, some of the milder, more simple ones, it does seem a little silly to block.. but, where do you draw the line? Thats the problem.
> >
> > Nikki
>
> I agree. : ) And where do you draw the line?
> No, it wouldnt really be at all difficult for me to just simply censor my words or not use them at all if it pleases other people... Im 100% for being kind and civil and compassionate towards each other... but IMO censoring or ommitting certain words in order to prevent the possibility of certain people from becoming offended (by just reading them on a message board) is wrong to expect.
> Not a huge issue though.
>
> Friends,
It is written here,[...in this thread..illogical and ..to censor..words by replacing a..letter with an asterisk...word allowed here as long as the ..is replaced by an asterisk...Let's pretend...equally offended by the censored version as the non-censored version..fully aware of what the word is...].
There is the potential ,IMO, that this thread has at least the question as to if putting the asterisk in the word makes it any less offensive, to those that think the word is offensive, for some could think that words that are deemed offensive to some, could not be offensive to some others.
If we look at that question, then does the use of an asterisk for one letter change the meaning of the word? If it does, then could we have two words meaning two things? If it does not change the meaning of the two forms of the word, then do we not have the theorem that[... if a=b and b=c, then does not a=c?..] Or, does not the theorem hold that quantities equal to the same quantity equal to each other?
Now let us suppose that someone wants to believe that one form of the word is offensive and the other form is not. I ask,in your opinions, would then one have to use their imaginiation as in a fantasy rather than reason to think that? If so, could they or could they not be deluding themselves into thinking that one form of the word is offensive and the other form with the asterisk is not offensive? If so, are delusions and/or fantasies a sound mental-health practice?
The asterisk has a historical meaning from centuries ago concerning swearing in relation to commandments that some faiths have from their God to them that I would like to discuss by email, if you would like.
Lou
lpilder_1188@fuse.net
Posted by AuntieMel on January 5, 2007, at 18:08:34
In reply to Re: The No Offensive Language Rule » NikkiT2, posted by JeffSmith on January 5, 2007, at 12:58:30
Well, I guess I wouldn't like it if there were people here cursing like sailors (it's an expression - I like sailors)
And the idea that people might find us by googling those words gives me the willies.
But I didn't like it when people were blocked for forgetting either.
This seems to me to be a good in-between.
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 6, 2007, at 4:57:08
In reply to Re: The No Offensive Language Rule » NikkiT2, posted by JeffSmith on January 5, 2007, at 12:58:30
> lets assume that does horribly offend you. So what does that mean? What exactly happens to you after reading a word that horribly offends you? How are you harmed? Are you left so affected that you'd be unable to continue reading my post? Does being horribly offended mean that you cant go on to read any other post here? Does it make you never want to visit here again?
Maybe it would leave her feeling it's not so supportive here?
> Lets pretend Im extremely upset with my mother and I want to come here ... and I just need to vent
It can be therapeutic to express yourself, but this isn't necessarily the place.
> And why should any of that be left up to me to have to "worry" about?
> Are you suggesting that I should stop myself, and all my thoughts, just to first think "Well so and so may be left to feel 'horribly offended' ... if I call my mother a b*tch, so I better first try to come up with a non-offensive term or discription to express how Im feeling about her instead of using that word"??It isn't left up to you, the asterisking is automatic. And you wouldn't have to stop yourself first, you'd just have to stop yourself sometime before clicking "confirm". :-)
> The "C" word offends you when written (and I assume also when its spoken). How do you feel about the "C" word if its written here in censored form, as in [xxx]?
May I ask why you spelled out the censored form that time, instead of just saying "in censored form", as you did every other time?
> > but, where do you draw the line? Thats the problem.
>
> I agree. : ) And where do you draw the line?FYI, I've drawn the line at "often or usually disparaging, obscene, offensive, or vulgar":
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
> No, it wouldnt really be at all difficult for me to just simply censor my words or not use them at all if it pleases other people... Im 100% for being kind and civil and compassionate towards each other...
Great, it would please me, so I guess that's settled. :-)
Bob
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