![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 34. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 21, 2006, at 10:53:56
Dr. Hsiung,
I am requesting that you close the faith board for the following;
A. Your policy that the deputies do not have to intervene has the potential,IMO, to allow posts that have the potential to arrouse antisemitic feelings to remain unsanctioned and have then the potential, IMO, to foster defamation toward Jews and me as a Jew on the forum.
B. Your policy here prevents me from using the {report this post} feature here for posts that are authored by those that in the past that I have asked you about three of their posts, and you have said that in your thinking that they are acceptable.
C. I have asked you to determine in advance if a link that I would like to post as a response from the Jewish perspective from the Anti-Defamation league to posts that IMO have the potential to arrouse antisemitic feelings that have not been sanctioned, as per other posts that could lead others to feel accused or put down, is acceptable or not. In our dialog about that, I feel uncertian as to if your reply to me is saying that I am to ask another first as an additional condition to me, than to others, as per your FAQ policy, for you to make a determination for acceptablity or not and then send it to you, or if I do not have to do that first before I send it to you.
D. I have asked you to write your rational for writing that your policy is reasonable that says that the deputies do not have to intervene.
Your reply to me was that {...the question for me hasn't been whether they're discriminatory, but whether it's more helpful to focus on the past or the present...]
My reply to that was,[...if so, why could you not {focus on the present} if the deputies did sanction them since posts that accuse or put down others are sanctioned?..] Your reply was {..I don't think I have anything else to add...]
Yet today, posts that IMO have the potential to defame Jews are left to stand, over and over, and I think that those posts are uncivil and not supportive in a mental health community to be to let stand . If you closed the faith forum, those posts that have IMO the potential to foster defamation toward Jews and others that do not accept the claimes of Christiandom, that are not sanctioned in the same manner as I would be sanctioned if I was to post that My God has revealed Himself to me and has given me a commandment, could not seen anymore and in my thinking could be good for the community as a whole.
Lou Pilder
If anyone would like to see the post in question, you could email me if you like.
lpilder_1188@fuse.net
Posted by muffled on October 21, 2006, at 11:52:50
In reply to Lou's request to DR. Hsiung-, posted by Lou Pilder on October 21, 2006, at 10:53:56
Uh Lou....
My brain hurts.
Sorry, I not so smart.
Is there any way you could phrase that post a little more simply?
Cuz really, I can't understand it....
Sorry,
Muffled
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 21, 2006, at 12:19:59
In reply to Re: Lou's request to DR. Hsiung-, posted by muffled on October 21, 2006, at 11:52:50
muffled,
You write,[...Lou...could you phrase that post..more simply..?]
What is the part that you would like simplified?
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 21, 2006, at 12:50:46
In reply to Re: Lou's request to DR. Hsiung-, posted by muffled on October 21, 2006, at 11:52:50
muffled,
I guess that the overiding aspect of the post that you would like to be simplified is that I am requesting that the faith forum be closed because I think that it would be good for the community as a whole IMO to close it because there are posts IMO that have the potential to foster defamation toward Jews and me as Jew on the forum, and others that do not accept the claimes of Christiandom, that are being allowed to stand unsanctioned.
Lou
Posted by fayeroe on October 22, 2006, at 11:32:38
In reply to Lou's reply to muffled-unsancdefam » muffled, posted by Lou Pilder on October 21, 2006, at 12:50:46
> muffled,
> I guess that the overiding aspect of the post that you would like to be simplified is that I am requesting that the faith forum be closed because I think that it would be good for the community as a whole IMO to close it because there are posts IMO that have the potential to foster defamation toward Jews and me as Jew on the forum, and others that do not accept the claimes of Christiandom, that are being allowed to stand unsanctioned.
> Lou"We must learn to live together as brothers or perish together as fools."
~~~Martin Luther King, Jr.
Posted by muffled on October 22, 2006, at 23:26:58
In reply to Lou's reply to muffled-unsancdefam » muffled, posted by Lou Pilder on October 21, 2006, at 12:50:46
> muffled,
> I guess that the overiding aspect of the post that you would like to be simplified is that I am requesting that the faith forum be closed because I think that it would be good for the community as a whole IMO to close it because there are posts IMO that have the potential to foster defamation toward Jews and me as Jew on the forum, and others that do not accept the claimes of Christiandom, that are being allowed to stand unsanctioned.
> Lou**Thank you Lou.
I am of the Christian faith.
There's plent about my faiths doctrines etc. that bother me greatly. And yet i do strongly and fully beleive in my God.
That being said, I have no right to make ANY judgement over anothers faith. Each mans faith is his own thing.
Yes, there are things on the faith board that i am not happy about.
I dunno what religion Bob is, but i would bet its NOT Christian!!!LOL! But thats HIS business not mine.
Religions have disagreed thru the centurys. They still do. And proly will always.
So at this time anyways I tend to stay away from the faith board, cuz yes, to me it DOES feel somewhat tainted. But that is just MY feelings. I speak for noone but myself.
If there are those who like that board , great.
But I won't be there.
So Lou, if I were you (which I am not) I woulod let this go. Jews will be defamed here and elsewhere. so will Christians, Buddists, etc. Its just the way it is. People will express themselves and I feel they have the right to do so.
I may not agree, it may make me very sad and hurt, but fortunately where I live, its a free world, and so they may speak.
And so I stay away.
Muffled
Posted by muffled on October 22, 2006, at 23:28:19
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to muffled-unsancdefam » Lou Pilder, posted by fayeroe on October 22, 2006, at 11:32:38
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 23, 2006, at 6:53:01
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to muffled-unsancdefam, posted by muffled on October 22, 2006, at 23:26:58
muffled,
You wrote,[...Lou,..let this go..Jews will be defamed here...].
Antisemitism did not start with the Nazi era, nor did it end in 1947. Antisemitism needs fuel to have it erupt like a forest fire into a systematic policy of social isolation, exclusion and degradation. The fuel that drives it is scapegoating and defamation toward the Jews, blaming them, ridiculing them, taunting them, ostracising them, mocking them and having a different standard for them from others,(discrimination).
You write that [...Jews will be defamed here..let it go...].
You see, society has the potential IMO to mirror the university postion and the psychiatry position. And this site has an archive and the owner writes that he has such so that{... others can see what it is like here...}. So could it not be considered that the archives and what can be seen on the board now be all one, and that there are not past posts and present posts here?
To me, it is critically important to be at least one person to attempt to have those posts that IMO have the potential to arrouse antisemitic feelings that are now being to let stand without the same sanction as other posts that accuse or put down others, have a rupudiation posted to them by Dr. Hsiung in the threads that they appear.
If anyone would like to see these posts in question, you could email me if you like.
lpilder_1188@fuse.net
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 23, 2006, at 7:23:00
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to muffled-unsancdefam, posted by muffled on October 22, 2006, at 23:26:58
muffled,
You wrote,[...it make me very sad and hurt..people will express themselves..its a free world so they may speak..]
The concept of {freedom of speech}is IMO important to a free society. But do not in your opinion people give a high credibility to what is spoken by teachers, and in particular teachers at a university? And in your opinion, do not others give a high credibility to what is written by a psychiatrist?
DR. Hsiung writes in his FAQ to ask the members to trust him, that what he does in his thinking will be good for the community as a whole.
If you would like to see the historical parallels in regards to Dr. Hsiung's statement about {...will be good for the community as a whole..], you could email me if you like at
lpilder_1188@fuse.net
Lou
Posted by muffled on October 23, 2006, at 11:03:50
In reply to Lou's reply to muffled- » muffled, posted by Lou Pilder on October 23, 2006, at 7:23:00
> muffled,
> You wrote,[...it make me very sad and hurt..people will express themselves..its a free world so they may speak..]
> The concept of {freedom of speech}is IMO important to a free society. But do not in your opinion people give a high credibility to what is spoken by teachers, and in particular teachers at a university? And in your opinion, do not others give a high credibility to what is written by a psychiatrist?
> DR. Hsiung writes in his FAQ to ask the members to trust him, that what he does in his thinking will be good for the community as a whole.
> If you would like to see the historical parallels in regards to Dr. Hsiung's statement about {...will be good for the community as a whole..], you could email me if you like at
> lpilder_1188@fuse.net
> Lou
>
>
**Lou, you kinda lost me a bit on the previous post. But if i did get it right. Then you have ALREADY repudiated those posts well. You have dozens of posts here on admin., which will also be archived which repudiated those posts.
You have done your work.
Well, I dunno how others think....thats one of my probs I think. But I myself just see people as people. Just cuz Bob has a Doctorate means squat to me. Judging by some of what I have observed of him, he's bout as human as the next guy. As human as me. And I have very little education.
I have been educated by my own life.
So Bob may have some clevernessess of his own, but so do I.
He is no better or worse than I.
I must say, as administrator of this site I frequent, I DO wonder who Bob is, and what his motives are....
But I don't give a rats *ss really what he thinks bout my religion. (IMO, he not got much use for it!!!!LOL!!!)
I am secure in love of my God, and that He will prevail in the end. As I'm sure others feel secure with their God. And I am ok w/that.
So I hope you can chill out some Lou.
Kick back and just have some fun.
I have encountered no antisemitism where I live.....
So I dunno what else to say,
Except be well,
Muffled
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 23, 2006, at 13:28:05
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to muffled- » Lou Pilder, posted by muffled on October 23, 2006, at 11:03:50
muffled,
You wrote,[...if I did get it right (your posts in this thread that are asking that DR. Hsiung post a repudiation in the thread where statements that IMO have the potential to arrouse antisemitic feelings), then you have already repudiated those posts.
If I have your post right, are you saying that a repudiation to a post by me is equivalent to a repudiation to a statement by Dr. Hsiung? If so, I would like for you to know that what I am requesting here is;
A.That DR. Hsiung post in the thread where there is a statement that IMO has the potential to arrouse antisemitic feelings, and he has let it stand, to write that the statement is uncivil.
B. That the poster >not< be sanctioned
C. That the policy of Dr. Hsiung that the deputies do not have to intervene be taken out of the FAQ in his rule here
D. That the 3 consecutive post rule be also taken out of the FAQ here.
E. That I be allowed to use the {report this post} feature here for those that I have requested to him what his thibking was in regards to statements being acceptable or not to those posters that I have asked for three other posts to be determined by him, and he had said that in his thinking that they were acceptable.
F. other good and just requests
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 23, 2006, at 13:53:21
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to muffled- » Lou Pilder, posted by muffled on October 23, 2006, at 11:03:50
muffled,
You wrote,[...Lou...you have done your work...]
My work is an effort here to have the administration write that posts that have statements unsanctioned, that have been used throughout the centuries to arrouse antisemitic feelings, to be sanctioned as being uncivil,so as to be in support of those that value religious freedom. For is not religious freedom protected, and not threatened, by the enforcement of the rules equally here that sanction statements that could lead one to feel accused or put down?
If you would like to see these posts, you could email me if you like.
lpilder_1188@fuse.net
Lou
Posted by muffled on October 23, 2006, at 15:39:57
In reply to Lou's reply to muffled- » muffled, posted by Lou Pilder on October 23, 2006, at 13:53:21
> muffled,
> You wrote,[...Lou...you have done your work...]
> My work is an effort here to have the administration write that posts that have statements unsanctioned, that have been used throughout the centuries to arrouse antisemitic feelings, to be sanctioned as being uncivil,so as to be in support of those that value religious freedom. For is not religious freedom protected, and not threatened, by the enforcement of the rules equally here that sanction statements that could lead one to feel accused or put down?***Well my cold and unkind response to that would be that:
-this is Bobs site. He has all the power, and all the rights over this site....it is Bobs site.
-Lifes not fair. Never has been fair, never will be fair. Some cultural group will always be oppressed. There will NEVER be world harmony. Never has been. Never will be.
-So I just try to be as kind to my fellow man as I am able to be, in my fallible human way...
So I admire you trying to be fair, but I REALLY don't think your gonna change Bobs mind by steadily beating at him. I sense that Bob can be stubborn as a mule. However, MAYBE you'll outstubborn him!!! LOL!
Who knows...Take care lou,
Muffled
Posted by muffled on October 23, 2006, at 15:57:35
In reply to Lou's reply to muffled- » muffled, posted by Lou Pilder on October 23, 2006, at 13:28:05
If so, I would like for you to know that what I am requesting here is;
> A.That DR. Hsiung post in the thread where there is a statement that IMO has the potential to arrouse antisemitic feelings, and he has let it stand, to write that the statement is uncivil.***NOT likely to EVER happen...
> B. That the poster >not< be sanctioned
***Huh?
> C. That the policy of Dr. Hsiung that the deputies do not have to intervene be taken out of the FAQ in his rule here
***This is Bobs site.
> D. That the 3 consecutive post rule be also taken out of the FAQ here.
***This is Bobs site. And he has let pass when you have done 3 consecutive posts hasn't he?
> E. That I be allowed to use the {report this post} feature here for those that I have requested to him what his thibking was in regards to statements being acceptable or not to those posters that I have asked for three other posts to be determined by him, and he had said that in his thinking that they were acceptable.
***I think you CAN report a post, you just may not get an answer....or....you may not like the answer....BUT...this is Bobs site.
> F. other good and just requests
***You can request anything you want.
You just may or may not get an answer.
You may or may not like the answer should you get one.
And if a person goes on too long about something, then another stubborn person is likely to just dig their heels in more.....thats the way I am!!!
Muffled
Posted by Lou PIlder on October 23, 2006, at 17:13:36
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to muffled- » Lou Pilder, posted by muffled on October 23, 2006, at 15:39:57
muffled,
Please do not post to me.
Lou
Posted by Jost on October 23, 2006, at 18:17:01
In reply to Lou's reply to muffled- » muffled, posted by Lou Pilder on October 23, 2006, at 13:28:05
Lou, in reading your posts, I'm led to wonder what price you'd find proper so as to insure that your requests would be met?
Put otherwise, what would you think was the right trade-off, if it were necessary, so as to assure the fulfillment of those requests?
ie, what if Bob would have to close down or greatly limit activity on this site, if he were to fully satisfy your requests?
Or again: what if Bob, with limited time to devote to the running of this site, were to go through archives and note his opposition to various posts, and also consider your concerns, day by day, as you list them:
and what if, that would make it impossible for him oversee the site, in general, if he took it upon himself?
Would that seem to you to be the right course of action?
How much would you find it correct for him to curtail the site, in order to rectify the situations that disturbs you?
I'm not asking this rhetorically. I'd like to know your reasoning in the matter.
Jost
Posted by Toph on October 23, 2006, at 20:20:27
In reply to Lou's request for muffled to please not post to me » muffled, posted by Lou PIlder on October 23, 2006, at 17:13:36
Posted by Lou PIlder on October 23, 2006, at 20:46:19
In reply to Re: Lou's requests, posted by Jost on October 23, 2006, at 18:17:01
Josh,
You wrote,[...I..wonder..what would..what if..how much..I'd like to know...].
Well, if I stated my plan for remediation, I think that some,if not all, of your questions could be answered. You see, there are about 40 posts here that are in question. Of those that have emailed me for them to see, some ask me to stop at 2, for they write that they have seen the seriousness of the situation, some at 5 , some at 17 before they have said that they have seen what I have said that they will see for themselves.
What I would like is that each of those have a colored symbol after the heading and after each uncivil statement that was not sanctioned as uncivil, and that members would know that it stands for that the statement in question is uncivil, like the symbol used to indicate a new-member symbol. I suggest that red be the color or orange. Another symbol could be a hand with the palm open, like as to indicate to halt. I think that this could be accomplished by appointing a special moderator. The special moderator could take the posts that I send to them, forward them to Dr. Hsiung, he examines the posts, emails back the ones that he says that he wants to stand, and the special moderator does the mechanics to have the symbol show in the subject line and the statement in question that Dr. Hsiung considers to be uncivil in relation to the guidlines of the forum as to that there is the potential for the statements to lead Jews and others that do not accept the claimes of Christiandom to feel accused or put down, or to have the potential to arrouse antisemitic feelings.
Lou
Posted by muffled on October 23, 2006, at 20:52:07
In reply to Re: please post to us anytime- muffled (nm), posted by Toph on October 23, 2006, at 20:20:27
LOL! thanks Toph.
I'm fine :-)
Muffled
Posted by SatinDoll on October 23, 2006, at 20:57:29
In reply to Re: please post to us anytime- muffled » Toph, posted by muffled on October 23, 2006, at 20:52:07
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 23, 2006, at 22:30:39
In reply to Lou's request for muffled to please not post to me » muffled, posted by Lou PIlder on October 23, 2006, at 17:13:36
> muffled,
> Please do not post to me.
> LouThanks for following the steps in the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#harassed
I've been thinking:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20061018/msgs/696737.html
and I'd like to try something new. You can request that Muffled not post to you, but I'd rather lines of communication stayed open, so I think I'd prefer not to enforce this unless you feel harassed and it's necessary as a last resort. If you do feel harassed and see this a last resort, could you let me know, by babblemail or email, what it is that makes you feel that way and what steps you've already taken to address this? Then I'll post something if I'm going to enforce this.
Since this is a new procedure, I'm also interested in questions, comments, and suggestions regarding it.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by muffled on October 23, 2006, at 23:23:48
In reply to Re: requests not to be posted to, posted by Dr. Bob on October 23, 2006, at 22:30:39
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 23, 2006, at 23:50:23
In reply to Enforce? In what way???? (nm) » Dr. Bob, posted by muffled on October 23, 2006, at 23:23:48
Posted by muffled on October 24, 2006, at 0:21:53
In reply to Re: by blocking you if you do post to him again... (nm), posted by Dr. Bob on October 23, 2006, at 23:50:23
" but I'd rather lines of communication stayed open,"
**HUH? So why this? I feel lab rattish.......
Muffled
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 24, 2006, at 6:45:25
In reply to Re: requests not to be posted to, posted by Dr. Bob on October 23, 2006, at 22:30:39
> > muffled,
> > Please do not post to me.
> > Lou
>
> Thanks for following the steps in the FAQ:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#harassed
>
> I've been thinking:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20061018/msgs/696737.html
>
> and I'd like to try something new. You can request that Muffled not post to you, but I'd rather lines of communication stayed open, so I think I'd prefer not to enforce this unless you feel harassed and it's necessary as a last resort. If you do feel harassed and see this a last resort, could you let me know, by babblemail or email, what it is that makes you feel that way and what steps you've already taken to address this? Then I'll post something if I'm going to enforce this.
>
> Since this is a new procedure, I'm also interested in questions, comments, and suggestions regarding it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> BobDR. Hsiung,
In reply to your invitation to discuss your new policy concerning using your feature to request that another (please do not to post to me}, you could ask for that the requestor send to you ;
A. If you {feel} harassed, could you let me know what it is as to {why you >feel<} that you want the other member to please not post to them
B. What steps have already been taken by the requestor
I think that your rule here is that if someone {feels}harassed, that that is the criteria to be used by the requestor to use what IMO is a {privilege} to invoke here your rule at the requestor's descretion. I also think that if you want to require that those that use that privilege to tell you {why} they want to exercise that privilege, could that not constitute a relationship that could be considerd to be a practice of psychiatry?
Lou Pilder
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