![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Smith562 on August 28, 2005, at 18:48:48
Dear Dr Bob,
I love this website and it has helped me tremendously fight my mood disorder. I do notice some individuals including myself can post statements that are "uncivil". I posted an uncivil statement toward "Amy" from the NY Times recently ... I think some of my anger and frustation was due to a recent medication switch.
If someone gets blocked due to a statement that reflects more the person cycling into a manic state or dysphoria due to a medication change (rather then a statement made by the person feeling well intentional hurtful to another individual), can that block be lessened or forgiven?
The short version ... if someone posts while manic or dysphoric and says something unintentional harmful .... could he/she explain the situation and the block be lifted?
Thanks
Smith
Posted by alexandra_k on August 28, 2005, at 22:18:39
In reply to Special Consideration when blocking Dr Bob?, posted by Smith562 on August 28, 2005, at 18:48:48
Just my take...
That is fairly hard to take into account...
But there are things such as ones past history (whether one makes a habit of it or not)
And whether one is lashing out at other posters or not.
Its funny to think one could get compassionate grounds on blockings ;-)
Shall we foward on medical certificates?
You can always attempt to explain / appeal via email and I think blocks can be negotiated somewhat....
But that being said there need to be fairly consistent rules otherwise there might be a temptation for people to repeatedly make use of 'my dx made me do it'.
Posted by lynn970 on August 29, 2005, at 20:09:20
In reply to Re: Special Consideration when blocking Dr Bob? » Smith562, posted by alexandra_k on August 28, 2005, at 22:18:39
What if someone is just so sad. They post something that is "uncivil" because they are sad. Would blocking that person throw him/her over the edge?
Posted by alexandra_k on August 29, 2005, at 20:26:56
In reply to Re: Special Consideration when blocking Dr Bob?, posted by lynn970 on August 29, 2005, at 20:09:20
> What if someone is just so sad. They post something that is "uncivil" because they are sad. Would blocking that person throw him/her over the edge?
If you don't block them then 'I'm sad' could become an excuse for getting out of blocks. Who is to judge whether someone really is sad or whether they are just saying they are to get out of a block? I wouldn't like to make that call...Besides which...
I really don't think there is any excuse for attacking others. Explanations, sure. But no excuse.
Thats what sucks about having a mental illness...
Sometimes our control of our behaviour can be a bit variable...
But we still have to accept the consequences of our behaviour whether we 'felt sad' or 'felt mad' or whatever.
Posted by lynn970 on August 29, 2005, at 21:01:37
In reply to Re: Special Consideration when blocking Dr Bob? » lynn970, posted by alexandra_k on August 29, 2005, at 20:26:56
Posted by Smith562 on August 30, 2005, at 14:31:05
In reply to Re: Special Consideration when blocking Dr Bob? » lynn970, posted by alexandra_k on August 29, 2005, at 20:26:56
But how about if your pdoc needs to change medication? You taper off your mood stablizer or antidepressant and find your extremely dysphoric (no fault of your own ... just because your unmedicated) and your write an uncivil post. I would not blame that individual in that situation, not would I block him/her if they apologized and explain the what had occurred. What do you think<
Smith
PS Dr Bob have any comment?
Posted by alexandra_k on August 30, 2005, at 15:34:49
In reply to Re: Special Consideration when blocking Dr Bob?, posted by Smith562 on August 30, 2005, at 14:31:05
> But how about if your pdoc needs to change medication? You taper off your mood stablizer or antidepressant and find your extremely dysphoric (no fault of your own ... just because your unmedicated) and your write an uncivil post. I would not blame that individual in that situation, not would I block him/her if they apologized and explain the what had occurred. What do you think<
I think that while that may be an explanation for uncivil behaviour it can't be accepted as an excuse.
There is no excuse for lashing out and attacking other people.
I mean sure, ultimately 'my genes and my environment made me do it' but what then of the notion of personal responsibility?
Just my take...
Posted by lynn970 on August 30, 2005, at 16:08:39
In reply to Re: Special Consideration when blocking Dr Bob? » Smith562, posted by alexandra_k on August 30, 2005, at 15:34:49
What if you did not lash out at anyone in particular? You were just venting. In Deneb's post, it sounded like she was very depressed.
Posted by Phillipa on August 30, 2005, at 16:14:27
In reply to Re: Special Consideration when blocking Dr Bob?, posted by lynn970 on August 30, 2005, at 16:08:39
Gee I hope there's some consideration. I would never intentinally hurt another. But I'm extremely tired and depressed due to long story. So I hope I'm not uncivil. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by alexandra_k on August 30, 2005, at 16:32:42
In reply to Re: Special Consideration when blocking Dr Bob?, posted by lynn970 on August 30, 2005, at 16:08:39
> What if you did not lash out at anyone in particular? You were just venting. In Deneb's post, it sounded like she was very depressed.
Ah. I think it was that she has been warned (and maybe blocked) for joking about death before...
Posted by Smith562 on August 30, 2005, at 18:52:50
In reply to Re: Special Consideration when blocking Dr Bob? » lynn970, posted by alexandra_k on August 30, 2005, at 16:32:42
Posted by JenStar on August 30, 2005, at 20:08:05
In reply to Special Consideration when blocking Dr Bob?, posted by Smith562 on August 28, 2005, at 18:48:48
hi Smith,
I sympathize with your difficult med switch - I know those can be rough! I hope you're doing ok now. :)I read your post with interest, but to be honest I don't agree with your proposal. I think we all have to take personal responsibility for our actions here and in "real life" for what we say and do, no matter how we feel at the time we say or do it.
I think we all possess the ability to control our behavior regardless of what our emotions are doing. And if we're not that good at self control, we need to practice it and learn from our mistakes until we get 'good enough' to interact on a regular basis.
I don't think we should get what amounts to free passes for bad behavior just because we were feeling upset, distressed, depressed, etc. I think it's really rare in life that ANYONE gets such a free pass -- even "temporary insanity" on the witness stand is being questioned as a protective device.
I worry that if we gave this kind of consideration, then anyone could get out of any PBC or block because surely they were upset, angry, distressed, scared at the time they wrote it. I think it's important to think and check the message before we post it...and edit it if necessary.
Can I ask, how do you think this would help the community? Do you feel that you yourself don't have control over what you say and do when you're depressed or upset?
take care,
JenStar
Posted by Smith562 on August 30, 2005, at 20:49:28
In reply to Re: Special Consideration when blocking Dr Bob? » Smith562, posted by JenStar on August 30, 2005, at 20:08:05
I don't think individuals in the extreme throws of mania, depression or psychosis have control over there actions/decisions.
Let’s say an individual with bipolar disorder is well controlled on lithium. Unfortunately the individual is starting to get kidney dysfunction due to lithium. Their psychiatrist suggests enrolling in a study involving a novel medication being investigated for bipolar disorder. The medication turns out not to effective for bipolar disorder and several weeks later that individual is in a florid manic episode and feel like individuals are plotting against him. They read a post on psychobabble and respond, "why are you plotting against me, your an inconsiderate jerk!"
First: I don't feel that person has control over their mania/delusions.
Second: Once that person is stable, it would be unfortunate if that person could not participate on babble. Maybe they would share their experience with the drug, how they coped during and after their mania and how they recovered with the babble readers.
A guess we can agree to disagree.
Smith
Posted by JenStar on August 30, 2005, at 21:14:27
In reply to Re: I respectfully disagree with you. » JenStar, posted by Smith562 on August 30, 2005, at 20:49:28
hi Smith,
I guess I feel sort of torn - on the one hand, I truly believe my previous post.On the other, I DO have sympathy for people who are the midst of a psychotic breakdown or severe distress. And in 'real life' I DO tend to excuse behavior if I know someone was having trouble.
For example, my mom's dog died and she was very sad & depressed. So when she snapped at me on the phone and argued, I didn't argue back -- I knew she was depressed and it was the "depression talking." Sort of. I mean, my mom has ALWAYS had a quick temper, and she is ALWAYS argumentative...so I suppose it was in my best interest not to provoke her and get into a fight. But I believe that she was MORE argumentative at that time b/c of her depression. Not that makes it's all ok...but I changed my own response to make the whole situation easier for both of us.
But on babble, since we're all separate souls, it's hard to tell when someone's TRULY not able to respond, and when they would use it as an excuse. It seems like it would be impossible to differentiate, no?
But it's fun to talk about htis with you. thanks for starting the discussion. :)
take care,
JenStar
Posted by Smith562 on August 30, 2005, at 21:49:27
In reply to Re: I respectfully disagree with you. » Smith562, posted by JenStar on August 30, 2005, at 21:14:27
Your right ... it would be next to impossible determine who is truly acting inappropriate unintentionally uncivil versus those intentionally posting hurtful posts. And maybe I give people too much "benefit of the doubt", and say they didn't mean what they said ... there just depressed.
I guess I posted this because a few individuals I loved reading and posting to have been blocked in the past. Later it appeared they were very apologetic and remorseful ... and it seemed very out of character what they had said in the past. I just assumed they were feeling horrible.
Thank for your posts .... please keep in touch (even if I happen to get blocked someday). ;)
Smith
Posted by spriggy on August 30, 2005, at 21:49:35
In reply to Re: I respectfully disagree with you. » Smith562, posted by JenStar on August 30, 2005, at 21:14:27
I personally, think it would be a little nicer if Dr. Bob could personally tell us to PBC through babblemail or email than publicly on this board.
I think the reason people are so offended by being told to PBC or being blocked, is becuase of how publicly it's done. It's embarrassing. For some, they may not even return because of the public embarrassment.
I think if there could be a rule that a person is warned privately at least once before being publicly disciplined, that would show a bit more candor.BUT, I don't pay the bills here and it's not my place so it's just my own two cents. :)
Posted by alexandra_k on August 30, 2005, at 21:54:22
In reply to my opinion about this is..., posted by spriggy on August 30, 2005, at 21:49:35
Regardless of what one intended one has to accept the consequences of ones behaviour / actions.Because the consequences of the response affect the future probability of similar responses.
Maybe because one learns to think before responding.
Harder to do when you are in a bit of a state
But its one way to learn.
Posted by Glydin on August 30, 2005, at 22:54:30
In reply to Re: my opinion about this is..., posted by alexandra_k on August 30, 2005, at 21:54:22
>
> Regardless of what one intended one has to accept the consequences of ones behaviour / actions.
>
> Because the consequences of the response affect the future probability of similar responses.
>
> Maybe because one learns to think before responding.
>
> Harder to do when you are in a bit of a state
>
> But its one way to learn.
>
>I agree with you. I do recall several incidents where folks have openly admitted they were in a difficult state and Dr. Bob's standard reply of (paraphased ---- I'm sorry you're having a difficult time, but....) generally followed by the rationale of why the post was deemed not acceptable by the standards and guidelines. I've also known him to ask a poster to consider not posting due to their "state".
We are given the "code of conduct" when we register.
I think unless we are deemed totally incompetent, we are responsible for our conduct and our postings here.
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 30, 2005, at 23:52:04
In reply to Special Consideration when blocking Dr Bob?, posted by Smith562 on August 28, 2005, at 18:48:48
> If someone gets blocked due to a statement that reflects more the person cycling into a manic state or dysphoria due to a medication change (rather then a statement made by the person feeling well intentional hurtful to another individual), can that block be lessened or forgiven?
Usually not forgiven, but that's one reason the length of blocks is relatively standardized...
Bob
Posted by Phillipa on August 30, 2005, at 23:55:27
In reply to Re: Consideration when blocking, posted by Dr. Bob on August 30, 2005, at 23:52:04
Isn't there a saying to forgive is devine? Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Smith562 on August 31, 2005, at 12:49:50
In reply to Re: Consideration when blocking, posted by Dr. Bob on August 30, 2005, at 23:52:04
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Administration | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.