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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by fires on February 21, 2005, at 22:59:38
Does anyone else (besides my docs whom I've asked) think that the "withdrawal" board should be changed to the "discontinuation" board, in the interest of medical accuracy, and in order to avoid the negative stigma of the association of withdrawal with addiction?
Thanks
Posted by alexandra_k on February 21, 2005, at 23:39:14
In reply to Name change?, posted by fires on February 21, 2005, at 22:59:38
> Does anyone else (besides my docs whom I've asked) think that the "withdrawal" board should be changed to the "discontinuation" board, in the interest of medical accuracy
But withdrawal from medication and discontinuation of medication are two seperate phenomena. For example, someone may discontinue and not suffer withdrawal. I don't understand how the proposed change is supposed to be more accurate and I especially don't understand how it is supposed to be more 'medically' accurate unless the terms have a specific medical meaning that I am unaware of.
>and in order to avoid the negative stigma of the association of withdrawal with addiction?
That would be dealt with on the substance board.
Perhaps persisting with the current name is one way to combat the negative stigma associated with the withdrawal of addiction (I am assuming that you are meaning 'addiction to illegal substances').Personally, I don't feel such stigma.
I don't much worry about the people who do, either. That is their issue. So long as they don't act out at me because of it.
Posted by ed_uk on February 22, 2005, at 9:19:07
In reply to Name change?, posted by fires on February 21, 2005, at 22:59:38
Hi :-)
IMHO, the term 'discontinuation syndrome' is a misleading euphemism.
Regards,
Ed.
Posted by AuntieMel on February 22, 2005, at 10:17:29
In reply to Name change?, posted by fires on February 21, 2005, at 22:59:38
It seems to me that withdrawal is a good name for this board.
We have substance which deals with substance abuse and it's withdrawal.
But some of the anti-depressents and anti-anxieties can have severe withdrawal symptoms. The medicine board sometimes gets so many posts on this that other medicinal topics get lost. Moving the posts that have to do with this type of withdrawal to another place makes sense.
As such, I don't think there ia any stigma at all. And I would think that calling it 'discontinuation' would cause it to be overlooked.
My opinion, for what that's worth.
Posted by fires on February 22, 2005, at 11:49:42
In reply to Re: Name change? » fires, posted by alexandra_k on February 21, 2005, at 23:39:14
> > Does anyone else (besides my docs whom I've asked) think that the "withdrawal" board should be changed to the "discontinuation" board, in the interest of medical accuracy
>
> But withdrawal from medication and discontinuation of medication are two seperate phenomena. For example, someone may discontinue and not suffer withdrawal. I don't understand how the proposed change is supposed to be more accurate and I especially don't understand how it is supposed to be more 'medically' accurate unless the terms have a specific medical meaning that I am unaware of.
>
> >and in order to avoid the negative stigma of the association of withdrawal with addiction?
>
> That would be dealt with on the substance board.
> Perhaps persisting with the current name is one way to combat the negative stigma associated with the withdrawal of addiction (I am assuming that you are meaning 'addiction to illegal substances').
>
> Personally, I don't feel such stigma.
> I don't much worry about the people who do, either. That is their issue. So long as they don't act out at me because of it.
>
>
My doc told me that upon discontinuing a med. one sometimes experiences discontinuation symptoms - not withdrawal symptoms. He said withdrawal symptoms are what are experienced by persons addicted to meds/drugs. Not just semantics.My doctor brought up the issue when I mentioned that I was probably addicted to Clonazepam. He said no - maybe dependent but not addicted. People addicted to drugs exhibit very different behaviors (such as stealing to support their addiction)--- according to my doc (not a Pdoc).
Posted by TamaraJ on February 22, 2005, at 12:36:39
In reply to Re: Name change?, posted by fires on February 22, 2005, at 11:49:42
-- There is, I think, a fine line between "discontinuation" and "withdrawal. I'll have to have a look, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that the term "discontinuation syndrome" was created by the pharmaceutical industry to avoid backlash when it became increasingly more evident that some people experience serious and debilitating symptoms when stopping certain meds. Regardless of what the medical profession calls it, when one stops taking a prescribed drug, there is always the possibility that the person will experience unpleasant symptoms as the drug is "withdrawn" from the system. So, it may actually be a matter of which term is more politically correct within the medical profession and pharmaceutical industry.
Posted by Dinah on February 22, 2005, at 12:46:41
In reply to Re: Name change?, posted by TamaraJ on February 22, 2005, at 12:36:39
Posted by TamaraJ on February 22, 2005, at 13:27:26
In reply to Re: Name change?, posted by TamaraJ on February 22, 2005, at 12:36:39
"This led to a special on national television entitled "Paxil withdrawal". The manufacturer was very quick to point out that this is to be called "discontinuation syndrome" and to avoid the term "withdrawal" entirely."
I can't seem to find the original reference I recall seeing (perhaps I was dreaming in technocolour!), but this was the gist of it.
Posted by fires on February 22, 2005, at 13:54:37
In reply to Re: Name change?, posted by TamaraJ on February 22, 2005, at 12:36:39
>> -- There is, I think, a fine line between "discontinuation" and "withdrawal. I'll have to have a look, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that the term "discontinuation syndrome" was created by the pharmaceutical industry to avoid backlash when it became increasingly more evident that some people experience serious and debilitating symptoms when stopping certain meds. Regardless of what the medical profession calls it, when one stops taking a prescribed drug, there is always the possibility that the person will experience unpleasant symptoms as the drug is "withdrawn" from the system. So, it may actually be a matter of which term is more politically correct within the medical profession and pharmaceutical industry<<
My point is that withdrawal is used for addictions, not discontinuation -- therefore there is a real difference. I had nightmares when I tapered off Effexor - yet I never stoled to support my Effexor use. Nor did Effexor cause me to have the other addictive behaviors that addicts exhibit.
Posted by TamaraJ on February 22, 2005, at 14:53:39
In reply to Re: Name change? » TamaraJ, posted by fires on February 22, 2005, at 13:54:37
>
> My point is that withdrawal is used for addictions, not discontinuation -- therefore there is a real difference. I had nightmares when I tapered off Effexor - yet I never stoled to support my Effexor use. Nor did Effexor cause me to have the other addictive behaviors that addicts exhibit.-- I see your point. What's unfortunate in some cases is that not all addicts exhibit drug or substance seeking behaviour or even have to resort to stealing to feed their habit. Many an alcoholic has gone for years and years (maybe their entire life) having the ways and means to support/feed their habit. I am not trying to split hairs here. I just see a fine line between dependency and addiction. If one looks up dependency in the dictionary, one will see ". . . 4a a drug addiction . . .
Posted by AuntieMel on February 22, 2005, at 14:55:51
In reply to Re: Name change? » TamaraJ, posted by fires on February 22, 2005, at 13:54:37
I consider addiction to be a physical need for whatever chemical. And I consider withdrawal the process and pain of getting that chemical out of the body.
A person can easily be addicted to something and not exhibit 'addictive behaviours.' I was (to hear tell) addicted to booze, but I never stole anything, missed work or got into any legal trouble. My productivity at work was actually higher than it is now.
But - to keep it administrative - I think Dinah's 'medication withdrawal' hits the best of both. The instant recognition of the word 'withdrawal' along with 'medication' to show it isn't about substance abuse.
Posted by alexandra_k on February 22, 2005, at 15:33:36
In reply to Name change?, posted by fires on February 21, 2005, at 22:59:38
Note the description of the board (just under the title):
This is a message board for mutual support and education. It focuses on withdrawal from medication -- including if, when, and how to withdraw as well as possible consequences of withdrawal. Withdrawal from "substances", however, is a topic for Psycho-Babble Substance Use.
So why is it so important to rename the board?
>in order to avoid the negative stigma of the association of withdrawal with addiction
What stigma?
>withdrawal symptoms are what are experienced by persons addicted to meds/drugs.
>People addicted to drugs exhibit very different behaviors (such as stealing to support their addiction)--- according to my doc (not a Pdoc).
>I never stoled to support my Effexor use. Nor did Effexor cause me to have the other addictive behaviors that addicts exhibit.
I do not appreciate the implication the people addicted to substances invariably present with ‘stealing’ or other ‘addictive behaviours’. It is partly to combat such assumptions that ‘addiction’ is out and ‘dependancy’ and ‘abuse’ are in.
Please do not post to me.
Posted by AuntieMel on February 22, 2005, at 16:29:26
In reply to Re: Name change? » fires, posted by alexandra_k on February 22, 2005, at 15:33:36
If you want him to not post to you, maybe you could put it in the subject line? It increases the chance of being seen.
Posted by cubic_me on February 22, 2005, at 17:04:27
In reply to Name change?, posted by fires on February 21, 2005, at 22:59:38
Fires - I was thinking the same as you, that effects of stopping medication are called discontinuation effects, not withdrawal effects. Despite being a medical student, I really don't understand why, when for me coming off Effexor makes me feel so aweful that I would do almost anything to get that drug and I feel anxious if I don't have any with me when I go out for a significant period of time.
I can see both sides of the arguement, as few people here are medically trained or as well read as some, and therefore may not know the meaning of discontinuation and will not look at the board. I think that Dinah's suggestion is a good compromise.
Posted by Glydin on February 22, 2005, at 18:17:34
In reply to Re: Name change?, posted by fires on February 22, 2005, at 11:49:42
> My doctor brought up the issue when I mentioned that I was probably addicted to Clonazepam. He said no - maybe dependent but not addicted. People addicted to drugs exhibit very different behaviors (such as stealing to support their addiction)--- according to my doc (not a Pdoc).~~~I am really glad to see someone else notes that difference. Folks are quite misled and misuse the word **Addiction** as it is truly defined. Addiction has four characteristics: Psychosocial disruption, Tolerance not leading to a maintenance dosing, Drug seeking behavior, and Inapproiate use.
The presence of discontinuation syndrome or even withdrawal symptoms does not, in and of itself, imply addiction.
I'll probably get a "Keep it Adm. here", but I wanted to acknowledge "Thank Goodness" someone else is aware of this REALLY important distinction.
Posted by fires on February 22, 2005, at 23:11:35
In reply to Re: Name change?, posted by cubic_me on February 22, 2005, at 17:04:27
> Fires - I was thinking the same as you, that effects of stopping medication are called discontinuation effects, not withdrawal effects. Despite being a medical student, I really don't understand why, when for me coming off Effexor makes me feel so aweful that I would do almost anything to get that drug and I feel anxious if I don't have any with me when I go out for a significant period of time.
>
> I can see both sides of the arguement, as few people here are medically trained or as well read as some, and therefore may not know the meaning of discontinuation and will not look at the board. I think that Dinah's suggestion is a good compromise.
I did some checking around and it seems that withdrawal and discontinuation are now used interchangeably in everyday use. I shouldn't be surprised since "psychology" says that one can be addicted to sex, food, shopping, gambling, video games, exercise, etc...I suppose that one could be addicted to those things if a persons' physiological responses are "strong" enough to cause withdrawal symptoms when the behaviors are stopped.
Posted by fires on February 22, 2005, at 23:21:25
In reply to Re: Name change? » fires, posted by Glydin on February 22, 2005, at 18:17:34
>>Addiction has four characteristics: Psychosocial disruption, Tolerance not leading to a maintenance dosing, Drug seeking behavior, and Inapproiate use.<<
Thanks. The above is what my MD told me - which is why I brought up the topic to begin with.
Posted by ed_uk on February 24, 2005, at 12:20:36
In reply to Re: Name change? » fires, posted by Glydin on February 22, 2005, at 18:17:34
Hi Glydin,
>The presence of discontinuation syndrome or even withdrawal symptoms does not, in and of itself, imply addiction.
Absolutely, there is a very important distinction to be made between addiction and physical dependence in a person who is not addicted. Even so, the term 'withdrawal symptom' can still be used to refer to symptoms that occur after the discontinuation of a drug in a dependent person who was not addicted. My concern about the use of the term 'discontinuation syndrome' is that it has been used to effectively disguise the sometimes very unpleasant nature of prescription drug withdrawal- many patients feel that they have been misled.
Ed x
Posted by justyourlaugh on February 24, 2005, at 22:46:50
In reply to Re: Name change? » cubic_me, posted by fires on February 22, 2005, at 23:11:35
fire..
this board is for people needing help...
what difference does it make what it is called?
lets cut the bul* shi*..and deal with each other...
j
Posted by fires on February 25, 2005, at 9:56:17
In reply to fire.., posted by justyourlaugh on February 24, 2005, at 22:46:50
> fire..
> this board is for people needing help...
> what difference does it make what it is called?
> lets cut the bul* shi*..and deal with each other...
> jIt may be what you called it to you, but it's not to me. Also, there's no doubt in my mind that if I had posted what you just did, I would have been banned. It will be interesting to see what happens.
Posted by alexandra_k on February 25, 2005, at 17:58:10
In reply to Re: fire.. » justyourlaugh, posted by fires on February 25, 2005, at 9:56:17
Why is it so important?
This is the end of the thread.
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