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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 211 to 235 of 536. Go back in thread:
Posted by Fallen4MyT on February 1, 2005, at 17:38:13
In reply to Re: I think I understand why people don't like this... » Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on February 1, 2005, at 17:24:19
Maybe I am lost but I thought last night you agreed to disaree and that would then mean you agreed to "give up" yesterday...if I misunderstood you could you please clarify this for me so that I do understand what your saying? By guve up I am referring to trying *to change minds* as if you have that magic potion or fix or however Gab worded it..... I am not referring to
NOT giving up on stating your views on this subject.
>
> The judgement stuff was from Linehan's buddist mindfulness stuff.
>
> If you judge something to be all good...
> If you judge something to be all bad...
>
> I give up now.
Posted by gardenergirl on February 1, 2005, at 17:58:23
In reply to Re: I think I understand why people don't like this... » alexandra_k, posted by Fallen4MyT on February 1, 2005, at 17:38:13
I just have a question or thought about how these "might" turn out. (might as in whether they come to be or not). And I don't like the idea, just for the record. I see no need as we have Open, Babblemail, emails, etc.
I am assuming that participation in them would be voluntary, right? They would not take the place of the regular boards? So we could just ignore them and go on posting as we always do? That's kind of what I assumed I would do if he implements them. I don't really expect the people I know and love would jump on over to this and quit posting on the regular boards. Although I could be wrong.
And if new people choose to do this, although I can't see how they could if they are new, cause how would they know which group they want to be in? Would they "rush" the small groups, like with the Greek system on college campuses? (only partly kidding here, unfortunately). Because the idea of randomly being assigned to a group is not appealing to me. But anyway, if this is how newbies might become Babblers, then the harm to me is that I would not get to know them if they do not post on the regular boards.
I also assume that even if the viewing of them was open to all ( and ick!), then I could ignore them, right? Kind of like how I don't look much at the Substance Abuse board now?
I don't know. Perhaps it's a muting of emotions I am experiencing right now. But I just can't make myself get upset about this beyond objecting to the principle. I just assume I'll go on as I normally do, and I suppose I am trusting that the bulk of Babblers will do the same.
Am I dreaming here? Rose-colored glasses slip down my forehead over my eyes?
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on February 1, 2005, at 17:59:37
In reply to Re: I think I understand why people don't like this... » alexandra_k, posted by Fallen4MyT on February 1, 2005, at 17:38:13
Years and years of experience with this particular defense mechanism. (spits sand out)
If I can't see the new boards, they can't see me, aka affect me, right?
:D
gg
Posted by Dinah on February 1, 2005, at 18:09:15
In reply to Re: I think I understand why people don't like this... » Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on February 1, 2005, at 17:24:19
I'm not familiar with Gestalt. I suppose there is overlap between the various schools of thought. I should have known it wasn't CBT. :)
I invited Dr. Bob to put down defending both of our positions (globally of course) and talk at a deeper level. He declined my invitation.
Posted by Fallen4MyT on February 1, 2005, at 18:10:45
In reply to btw, I play ostrich really really well! » Fallen4MyT, posted by gardenergirl on February 1, 2005, at 17:59:37
Lol I don't I am more a Rosa Parks kinda gal and will leave when that time comes for the principle
> Years and years of experience with this particular defense mechanism. (spits sand out)
>
> If I can't see the new boards, they can't see me, aka affect me, right?
>
> :D
>
> gg
Posted by Gabbix2 on February 1, 2005, at 18:10:53
In reply to Re: I think I am still trying to understand... » Gabbix2, posted by alexandra_k on February 1, 2005, at 17:16:37
I really don't want to debate this anymore, I think we're both weary of it, but the example I gave of the offensive language was simply that an example. Bob has stated clearly that he wants the most sensitive, even if they are in the minority to feel at ease and has risked the alienation/dissatisfaction of the majority in order that they feel comfortable here, there have been various issues, language being only one.
Posted by Fallen4MyT on February 1, 2005, at 18:16:06
In reply to Re: I think I understand why people don't like this... » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on February 1, 2005, at 18:09:15
LMAO WHY AM I NOT......AT ALL...surprised by this? I cannot say and be civil :)
signed
Your fellow lab rat
>
> I invited Dr. Bob to put down defending both of our positions (globally of course) and talk at a deeper level. He declined my invitation.
>
>
Posted by Dinah on February 1, 2005, at 18:22:54
In reply to Re: I think I understand why people don't like this..., posted by gardenergirl on February 1, 2005, at 17:58:23
Yes, of course people can continue to post the way they do now. And of course, Gabbi's right about having faith in posters. I ignore the boards I can't post on as it is now unless someone posts something about someone I care about on Social (as sometimes happens because a concerned poster can't post directly to 2000) and I'm moved to go see what's going on with them. Of course, I can't help any because I'm not allowed to post, but I'm still concerned enough to want to help because I care.
But that doesn't change the fact that Dr. Bob, a mental health professional and a human being I admire, doesn't "get" it. Perhaps that shouldn't bother me as much as it does. Positive transference coming to ground with a thud? Except that it's thudded so very often that it must be broken to pieces by now. And it's not something unexpected from Dr. Bob. Quite the contrary. So why does it bother me?
I think it's the impotence. I always feel so impotent around Dr. Bob. The only way to avoid that is not to care what he does. I've gotten better at that I guess. But not yet good enough.
Restricted boards? How very... interesting.
I'm practicing.
If only he'll quit enticing me to express myself when it really won't make a bit of difference. Hmmm...
Dr. Bob, please quit teasing me with ideas when I really can't get anywhere with them. It's quite frustrating.
Posted by gardenergirl on February 1, 2005, at 18:46:37
In reply to Re: I think I understand why people don't like this... » gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on February 1, 2005, at 18:22:54
"How very....interesting" reminds me of when I say "mmmmmmmm" to something. Not hmmmm (as in, "I need to think about that"), but rather mmmmmmmmmm. Not as in yummy, either. But just a very noncommittal verbal following which has more of an implication of "I really don't agree with you, but I'm not going to say that directly" than "uh huh".
So, restricted boards? mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
gg
Posted by alexandra_k on February 1, 2005, at 19:14:50
In reply to Re: I think I understand why people don't like this... » alexandra_k, posted by Fallen4MyT on February 1, 2005, at 17:38:13
I never did intend to try to *make* people change their minds on whether they wanted small boards or not.
With respect to that I am happy to agree to disagree. Though that isn't even the point *because I don't care one way or the other*.
But I was being persistent in trying to show people that there are different ways that we can view them.
But some people don't seem to be able to see them from another angle. Not even for a moment. Being able to see them from another angle doesn't oblige you to change your mind on whether you want small boards or not. It doesn't require one to give up ones basic morals. But some people are determined that *it really is a rabbit* and that is the end of the story.
If you really can't understand how to empathise with anothers point of view and reasons then there really isn't much that I can say.
I give up.
People would rather be upset about this then try to understand.Good luck to you all.
Posted by Dinah on February 1, 2005, at 19:33:57
In reply to Re: I think I understand why people don't like this... » Fallen4MyT, posted by alexandra_k on February 1, 2005, at 19:14:50
You sound frustrated and angry, Alexandra. I'm sorry.
I feel the same way about Dr. Bob, so I empathize.
Posted by Fallen4MyT on February 1, 2005, at 19:38:16
In reply to Re: I think I understand why people don't like this... » Fallen4MyT, posted by alexandra_k on February 1, 2005, at 19:14:50
I personally DO understand ALL the points and read all your posts on here...they are well said HOWEVER I still do not agree....its NOT that I do NOT understand it ...it is that I do not AGREE and with that...I guess, I find what you call persistance is what feels like you are trying to change our minds.."our" being those of us who keep repeating ourselves to get across that we do not agree...**not see..but agree**....at least thats my view...Dr Bob could make a fun board called the T lovers gated community and I still would NOT join NOT because I do not SEE ALL SIDES...but because having SEEN them I still find it appauling. Frankly we have all said more about this than Bob.
> I never did intend to try to *make* people change their minds on whether they wanted small boards or not.
>
> With respect to that I am happy to agree to disagree. Though that isn't even the point *because I don't care one way or the other*.
>
> But I was being persistent in trying to show people that there are different ways that we can view them.
>
> But some people don't seem to be able to see them from another angle. Not even for a moment. Being able to see them from another angle doesn't oblige you to change your mind on whether you want small boards or not. It doesn't require one to give up ones basic morals. But some people are determined that *it really is a rabbit* and that is the end of the story.
>
> If you really can't understand how to empathise with anothers point of view and reasons then there really isn't much that I can say.
>
> I give up.
> People would rather be upset about this then try to understand.
>
> Good luck to you all.
Posted by Fallen4MyT on February 1, 2005, at 19:44:53
In reply to Re: I think I understand why people don't like this... » Fallen4MyT, posted by alexandra_k on February 1, 2005, at 19:14:50
Some of us have said we wish to agree to disagree with you and yet you say we **would rather be upset than try to understand*** that statement is something I find offensive as I have said a number of times we do not agree lets agree to disagree and you keep trying to change our minds ...what makes you think we do NOT understand? Because we disagree? There is no other reason it could be than that. Have you noticed we have read what you said and did not say you choose to stay this or that? That insulted me and a few others I heard from in email.
>
> I give up.
> People would rather be upset about this then try to understand.
>
> Good luck to you all.
Posted by jujube on February 1, 2005, at 19:46:49
In reply to Re: I think I understand why people don't like this... » gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on February 1, 2005, at 18:22:54
I guess what I am having trouble with is seeing how this is going to help new board members integrate and become more active more quickly as well as seeing how it will enhance the activities of the board for all members.
First, people come to the board for very a variety of individual reasons. For some it is about joining a community where they will find support, friendship and knowledge on a longer-term basis. For others, it is only about getting answers to some questions, after which they no longer have a need for the board. There will always be a transient nature to these types of forums, and no matter how much effort is put into making the forum more appealing to newbies, some will not stay. It is not aways about feeling left out, ignored or insecure. If that were the case, then some of you participating in this thread would probably not be here to have this debate (I say that based on personal admissions in this particular thread of, at times, feeling like "thread killers", not to be disparaging in any way).
I have seen some newbies jump right in and participate in threads on a number of boards. Others take their time and may remain in their comfort zone on a particular board until, perhaps, they feel less inhibited and more confident about joining threads and broadening their horizons to other boards. What it boils down to is human nature. Some people are gregarious and will have no inhibitions about joining a conversation and voicing an opinion. Others are shy and need time to begin to know others and to become comfortable with a new environment through observation rather than participation. And, some are in between the two.
The point I am trying to make, is that it may be likely that no amount of special accommodation will make transient posters stay or facilitate more active participation by the some posters.
One thing I would like to add is that Dr. Bob may have better luck determining where improvements can be made to the forum, if needed, by surveying posters and then presenting the results of the survey for discussion. It would be one way to find out what works and what doesn't work and what keeps people here and what drives them away.
I personally think there is a wonderful dynamic here at Babble, and nothing should be done to inadvertently disrupt that dynamic.
Tamara
Posted by Dinah on February 1, 2005, at 19:48:44
In reply to Re: I think I understand why people don't like this... » Fallen4MyT, posted by alexandra_k on February 1, 2005, at 19:14:50
I really am sorry. I tend to get involved in these tussles with Dr. Bob over things I feel passionately about and unintentionally inflict some collateral damage.
For any collateral damage I have unintentionally caused you, I apologize.
Want to come play on Social?
Posted by Gabbix2 on February 1, 2005, at 20:05:26
In reply to Re: I think I understand why people don't like this... » Fallen4MyT, posted by alexandra_k on February 1, 2005, at 19:14:50
>
> If you really can't understand how to empathise with anothers point of view and reasons then there really isn't much that I can say.
>
Now that offends me, it's a sweeping assumption and I cannot grasp how you drew that conclusion. I don't understand how without changing their minds entirely anyone would be able to show you any more clearly that they had considered the other viewpoints.
Each alternate view.. the picnic, the cozy room,that Bob gave was considered by just about everyone on this thread and then countered.
Did you need (I'm not being snide) someone to say "I see what you mean Dr. Bob but this is how I see it" "That's a good point, I don't hate you I know you mean well but..." Maybe I've been here so long that I just know people like Dinah, Fallen, and GardenerGirl, always consider the other persons viewpoint, Dinah especially will give Dr. Bob the benefit of the doubt. Fairness is not a quality exclusive to you, actually I think Dinah could teach the best of us about fairness, critical thinking and tact.
I'm terrifically insulted at having my own abilty to empathize doubted (one of my core values and that of the people on the board I know well) I personally couldn't care less about the boards either, my thinking about others, and the principle here is why I'm involved in this at all.
Posted by Dinah on February 1, 2005, at 20:11:39
In reply to Re: I think I understand why people don't like this... » alexandra_k, posted by Gabbix2 on February 1, 2005, at 20:05:26
Dr. Bob's on board. Just not on Admin yet. And I know we would hate to have admin actions among friends.
And we are friends, right? Things blow up, but they'll get back in perspective because we all know each other well enough to know that we're all want the best.
It's easy to get frustrated and say something we might later regret. All of us, myself included.
Can we all go play on Social?
Before Dr. Bob comes and slaps hands?
Posted by Dinah on February 1, 2005, at 20:16:02
In reply to Deep breaths?, posted by Dinah on February 1, 2005, at 20:11:39
Sorry. I forgot one of my technical rules. I should have made that a reply to my own post.
Gabbi, that wasn't a reply to your post. It was just a general "Cheese it. It's the cops." to all of us.
And we are all friends, and we do all know we mean well right? It just gets frustrating, that's all.
Posted by Gabbix2 on February 1, 2005, at 20:24:55
In reply to Deep breaths?, posted by Dinah on February 1, 2005, at 20:11:39
> And we are friends, right? Nope nnnnnnnnnnnnope
Yes! of course we're friends.
Posted by Fallen4MyT on February 1, 2005, at 20:38:14
In reply to Deep breaths?, posted by Dinah on February 1, 2005, at 20:11:39
yes we are but the rules apply to all of us friends even alex
> Dr. Bob's on board. Just not on Admin yet. And I know we would hate to have admin actions among friends.
>
> And we are friends, right? Things blow up, but they'll get back in perspective because we all know each other well enough to know that we're all want the best.
>
> It's easy to get frustrated and say something we might later regret. All of us, myself included.
>
> Can we all go play on Social?
>
> Before Dr. Bob comes and slaps hands?
Posted by Gabbix2 on February 1, 2005, at 20:45:22
In reply to Re: Deep breaths? » Dinah, posted by Fallen4MyT on February 1, 2005, at 20:38:14
> yes we are but the rules apply to all of us friends even alex
>
That's true, no special concessions for friends and I was offended by two of the comments made perhaps moreso than usual because they came from someone I thought knew me better than that.
Posted by Dinah on February 1, 2005, at 21:06:28
In reply to Re: Deep breaths? » Fallen4MyT, posted by Gabbix2 on February 1, 2005, at 20:45:22
Gabbi, I wasn't suggesting that special concessions be made for friends. I was suggesting that as friends, it was perhaps best for us to work it out ourselves before Dr. Bob gets his paddle out. That's all.
Depending on how he interprets posts, there may be more than one kiester on the line. (I trust that if that word is offensive, it'll be xxx'd out.)
Posted by Dinah on February 1, 2005, at 21:07:57
In reply to Re: Deep breaths? » Gabbix2, posted by Dinah on February 1, 2005, at 21:06:28
It's not a word I use often.
Oh well. I should just keep my mouth shut. My efforts at peacemaking usually fall very flat. :(
Posted by Gabbix2 on February 1, 2005, at 21:28:35
In reply to Re: Deep breaths? » Gabbix2, posted by Dinah on February 1, 2005, at 21:06:28
> Gabbi, I wasn't suggesting that special concessions be made for friends. I was suggesting that as friends, it was perhaps best for us to work it out ourselves before Dr. Bob gets his paddle out. That's all.
OH DINAH!!!!!
Okay really it was my fault, I don't really know how I posted that not being in reference to you, when there is no other way it could be interpreted, but by the time I had gotten to Fallens post I wasn't really thinking about what you'd said, and I certainly didn't think you'd suggested making special concessions for friends.
Like I said, I think it would have been impossible for you *not* to think I was referring to you, but I wouldn't have hinted like that if I was..
I was thinking that it was brave of Fallen to do that considering that we *are* friends, but we were hurt, but you are right too.. and so now that I agree with both of you, my head is now going somewhere beside GG'sI suspect if Bob get
>
> Depending on how he interprets posts, there may be more than one kiester on the line. (I trust that if that word is offensive, it'll be xxx'd out.)
Posted by Dinah on February 1, 2005, at 21:36:03
In reply to Re: Deep breaths? » Dinah, posted by Gabbix2 on February 1, 2005, at 21:28:35
I wasn't offended Gabbi. As if you could offend me...
I just didn't want anyone to think I was acting in a deputorial capacity and letting something slide. I wasn't. I never act deputorially when Dr. Bob's on board. It would violate the basic deputy principles.
Do you ever watch his moderating dance? It looks like a stately minuet tonight. And it appears that Admin may be the last curtsy. Is it always, do you know? Or just when he wants to avoid something?
We must really make him want to tear his hair out too, sometimes. :)
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