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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 27 to 51 of 51. Go back in thread:
Posted by Shar on August 3, 2004, at 0:55:27
In reply to Re: continuing to read, posted by Dr. Bob on August 2, 2004, at 7:19:51
Obviously, the answer is no more vacations, Dr. Bob.
Sorry!
Shar
P.S. I concur Dinah did a great job!
Posted by sb417 on August 3, 2004, at 2:23:09
In reply to Re: continuing to read » Dr. Bob, posted by chemist on August 2, 2004, at 19:52:14
> hello there, tjm here: i like your proposition. may i post a thread on this board and/or the meds board to avoid posts by jlb121, in that they are false, misleading, and dangerous? yet he has risen (today) with the same post that could truly lead one of the roughly 2 million visitors to this forum per month to make a potentially detrimental meds change based on assertive yet completely false information. all the best, tjm
This has been one of my main concerns about PB since I began reading here several years ago. There are numerous posts that contain false, misleading and downright dangerous "prescriptions" from posters who have no medical or science background except perhaps their own self medication. Although many readers are sophisticated enough to see through these posts and take them with a grain of salt, there are many others who come here thinking that this is a medical advice forum. I wish that Dr. Bob would hire someone who would comb through the posts on a daily basis and correct false, dangerous and misleading information. It is also important for readers to realize that response to medication is highly individual, and what works well for one person can kill another. If something works well for you, that's terrific, but don't ever assume that it will work well for others, and DON'T "prescribe" it to someone you've never met over the Internet. Just as there are civility rules and endless posts about the importance of "I" statements, shouldn't there be rules regarding the wording of medication posts?
For example, instead of saying something like, "This tricyclic can be combined with anything including an MAOI and there's no need to worry as long as you start with a low dose of TCA," wouldn't it be safer to say, "This particular combination worked well for me; however, it can pose some dangers if not done carefully, so please discuss it with your doctor." Dr. Bob, you often ask posters to re-phrase their posts in order to make them civil. How about requiring the SELF-appointed prescribers to re-phrase their posts in order to make them safe? Many people say they prefer PB over other mental health boards because it's a "safe place." The Psychobabble definition of safety should be expanded to include safety from very real physical dangers.
Posted by chemist on August 3, 2004, at 5:46:47
In reply to Re: continuing to read » chemist, posted by sb417 on August 3, 2004, at 2:23:09
hello there, tjm here...i agree with your statement in toto, and try to follow it to the letter in my posts, although nobody is perfect. the meds board does contain some dangerous posts, though, and civility ought to be second to safety, in my opinion. very well said, and all the best, tjm
> > hello there, tjm here: i like your proposition. may i post a thread on this board and/or the meds board to avoid posts by jlb121, in that they are false, misleading, and dangerous? yet he has risen (today) with the same post that could truly lead one of the roughly 2 million visitors to this forum per month to make a potentially detrimental meds change based on assertive yet completely false information. all the best, tjm
>
> This has been one of my main concerns about PB since I began reading here several years ago. There are numerous posts that contain false, misleading and downright dangerous "prescriptions" from posters who have no medical or science background except perhaps their own self medication. Although many readers are sophisticated enough to see through these posts and take them with a grain of salt, there are many others who come here thinking that this is a medical advice forum. I wish that Dr. Bob would hire someone who would comb through the posts on a daily basis and correct false, dangerous and misleading information. It is also important for readers to realize that response to medication is highly individual, and what works well for one person can kill another. If something works well for you, that's terrific, but don't ever assume that it will work well for others, and DON'T "prescribe" it to someone you've never met over the Internet. Just as there are civility rules and endless posts about the importance of "I" statements, shouldn't there be rules regarding the wording of medication posts?
> For example, instead of saying something like, "This tricyclic can be combined with anything including an MAOI and there's no need to worry as long as you start with a low dose of TCA," wouldn't it be safer to say, "This particular combination worked well for me; however, it can pose some dangers if not done carefully, so please discuss it with your doctor." Dr. Bob, you often ask posters to re-phrase their posts in order to make them civil. How about requiring the SELF-appointed prescribers to re-phrase their posts in order to make them safe? Many people say they prefer PB over other mental health boards because it's a "safe place." The Psychobabble definition of safety should be expanded to include safety from very real physical dangers.
>
>
Posted by gardenergirl on August 3, 2004, at 6:52:25
In reply to Re: continuing to read » chemist, posted by sb417 on August 3, 2004, at 2:23:09
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 3, 2004, at 10:41:35
In reply to Re: continuing to read » chemist, posted by sb417 on August 3, 2004, at 2:23:09
> may i post a thread on this board and/or the meds board to avoid posts by jlb121, in that they are false, misleading, and dangerous?
>
> chemistHow about focusing on the false, misleading, and dangerous information instead of the poster?
> Just as there are civility rules and endless posts about the importance of "I" statements, shouldn't there be rules regarding the wording of medication posts?
>
> sb417The difference with medication posts is that they need to be implemented to have any effect, so I remind people:
> Don't necessarily believe everything you hear. Your mileage may vary. The only posts I take responsibility for are my own.
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 3, 2004, at 10:42:25
In reply to Re: continuing to read, posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 2, 2004, at 19:21:23
> I feel people continue to read for the same reasons that people turn and look at a car wreck on the highways. It's human nature.
Well, like on the highways, if people don't watch where they're going...
Bob
Posted by Dinah on August 3, 2004, at 11:30:53
In reply to Re: car wrecks, posted by Dr. Bob on August 3, 2004, at 10:42:25
> > I feel people continue to read for the same reasons that people turn and look at a car wreck on the highways. It's human nature.
>
> Well, like on the highways, if people don't watch where they're going...
>
> BobPrecisely. I don't read posts because of their resemblence to car wrecks. I read posts because reading them is akin to watching where I'm going. I might not like the road conditions, but I need to know what they are to navigate as safely as possible.
You're asking us to not read, and to not have all the information we need to make informed decisions. I know it works well for many, and in some circumstances it works well for me. I only need take a look at the thread post titles to know that Social isn't somewhere I want to look too closely for at least four months. I peek in on the threads to make sure that I'm correct, and then don't read. But if the topic in question is one I post on, I feel safer if I know what's going on.
I don't think "Don't read posts by posters that bother you" is good universal advice. Perhaps you should change it a bit.
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 3, 2004, at 11:36:21
In reply to Re: what will happen to better Babble World, posted by Dr. Bob on August 1, 2004, at 15:17:01
> > I wonder if someone who is wise in group internet process could be a guest poster?
OK, see below:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20040717/msgs/373586.html
Bob
Posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 3, 2004, at 12:51:01
In reply to Re: car wrecks, posted by Dr. Bob on August 3, 2004, at 10:42:25
Everyone can be hypnotized said a doc, it is the same process as people staring at a car wreck.
Don't worry about attitional crashes so much Dr. Bob, they usually slow down. Maybe, and the same happens with uncivil posts. They are read with word for word. Didn't we have people from other boards react to psych board that aren't usually on there? Well, it's the same process. People will stop and slow down and react.
There is also the power of the crowd theory. One man starts to shake a car in front of a crowd of people then another man jumps in. Before you know it a hundred men are involved in shaking a car for no reason. I saw the same thing here. One person says a totally opposite theory and others got confused of the original actions. Then, there is mass hysteria. But, all this still boils down to the chain reaction of one thing.
It's all about human nature. People are drawn to negative behavior. Negative behavior gets a lot of attention. Some people want to encourage it. Some make excuses for poor behavior. Some try to stop it. Some want to help it. Some want to understand it. ETC. But, those that remain civil get no attention for being civil and so is society.
Posted by tabitha on August 3, 2004, at 13:21:35
In reply to Re: car wrecks power of a crowd, posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 3, 2004, at 12:51:01
> It's all about human nature. People are drawn to negative behavior. Negative behavior gets a lot of attention. Some people want to encourage it. Some make excuses for poor behavior. Some try to stop it. Some want to help it. Some want to understand it. ETC.
Yup, everyone has their different way of responding. Then people who respond one way start getting critical of those who respond another way. Recipe for chaos.
Posted by AuntieMel on August 3, 2004, at 13:46:08
In reply to Re: car wrecks power of a crowd, posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 3, 2004, at 12:51:01
Yup, I'm one that never was on psych before. Then when I saw that everyone was upset I went to check it out (I'm an ambulance chaser, too..)
My first reaction was 'gosh, no wonder everyone is upset' (I'm very suceptible to following others in this type of situation)
Several days later I peeked again, rereading the same posts. I wasn't upset and the poster seemed to not be all bad, so I thought a bit of babbletequite coaching might be in order. As it turns out there was a fair amount of confusion that needed to be taken care of.
Yesterday I went back and reread the *exact* same points, but by then a few of us had had a pleasant discussion, so the direction I was coming from was different. Even though I knew that there were upset people, a large part of seemed to be a perfectly normal conversation.
Moral being - Ya just can't tell by the written word.
Posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 3, 2004, at 16:15:53
In reply to Re: car wrecks power of a crowd » Shadowplayers721, posted by AuntieMel on August 3, 2004, at 13:46:08
AuntieMel,
If we had one of those how many view by each post, I am sure it would show the true story. People do view a lot more than respond. There are some websites that show this data.
But, it's within all of us to want to see what is going on. I have never been behind anyone that didn't want to just give a just a quick peak where the were ambulances, fire trucks, cop cars, and smashed up vehicles. Never. We may not respond, but we are watching.
Posted by AuntieMel on August 3, 2004, at 16:57:52
In reply to Re: car wrecks power of a crowd, posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 3, 2004, at 16:15:53
<<<< It's all about human nature. People are drawn to negative behavior. Negative behavior gets a lot of attention. Some people want to encourage it. Some make excuses for poor behavior. Some try to stop it. Some want to help it. Some want to understand it. ETC. But, those that remain civil get no attention for being civil and so is society.
***BUT - what if {a very likely thing in the written word} the person *percieved* to be negative wasn't intending that at all??? What I mean, and this may be the power of the crowd part, is that in the particular case [that everyone is dancing around due to civility rules,] I thought at first read the posts were *very* negative. Only later could I go back and see that this probably (or at least possibly) wasn't the case. At least initially.
So, isn't it possible that the hubub was created by a big cyber-misunderstanding?
In which case maybe our guest would give us some tips as to how to avoid things like this in the future.
Posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 3, 2004, at 18:46:07
In reply to Re: car wrecks power of a crowd » Shadowplayers721, posted by AuntieMel on August 3, 2004, at 16:57:52
Hi AuntieMel,
I feel you have the best intentions for Babble as do I. I too welcome the guest speaker ideas/suggestions.
I don't know if you have already, but you might want to search of old posts within Admin and in psychobabble. This may give more information concerning the situation.
Thanks for being honest and open, Auntie Mel. I feel that you are a very caring and compassionate person. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me.
P.S. I am really glad that Dr. Bob is back. I feel we still need Sheriff here to keep things in line.
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 3, 2004, at 19:02:43
In reply to Re: car wrecks, posted by Dinah on August 3, 2004, at 11:30:53
> I don't read posts because of their resemblence to car wrecks. I read posts because reading them is akin to watching where I'm going. I might not like the road conditions, but I need to know what they are to navigate as safely as possible.
I agree, driving with one's eyes closed isn't a good idea, either! Balance is important.
> I don't think "Don't read posts by posters that bother you" is good universal advice. Perhaps you should change it a bit.
It's just an alternative approach to keep in mind? I guess a little more flexible would be: It may be better sometimes not to read posts by certain posters.
Bob
Posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 3, 2004, at 19:07:04
In reply to Re: car wrecks power of a crowd, posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 3, 2004, at 18:46:07
I am glad that you have joined in on psychobabble. I hope that the others that passed by will come back more often too. We need caring people like you all there too. :)
Posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 3, 2004, at 19:12:11
In reply to Re: car wrecks, posted by Dr. Bob on August 3, 2004, at 19:02:43
I agree Dr. Bob. It's about self control too. So, if I know a particular topic may trigger me, I need to keep my hands on the steering wheel and look straight head. "Keep on trucking down the road", as they say. Your instructions are the right thing to do, now I need to do it. I am very hypnotizable. I got to watch that. :)
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 3, 2004, at 19:43:07
In reply to keep hands on wheel and look straight ahead, posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 3, 2004, at 19:12:11
> It's about self control too. So, if I know a particular topic may trigger me, I need to keep my hands on the steering wheel and look straight head.
That's a good point, it's *your* hands on the wheel. :-)
Bob
Posted by Sad Panda on August 4, 2004, at 1:26:58
In reply to Re: continuing to read » chemist, posted by sb417 on August 3, 2004, at 2:23:09
> There are numerous posts that contain false, misleading and downright dangerous "prescriptions" from posters who have no medical or science background except perhaps their own self medication. Although many readers are sophisticated enough to see through these posts and take them with a grain of salt, there are many others who come here thinking that this is a medical advice forum. I wish that Dr. Bob would hire someone who would comb through the posts on a daily basis and correct false, dangerous and misleading information. It is also important for readers to realize that response to medication is highly individual, and what works well for one person can kill another. If something works well for you, that's terrific, but don't ever assume that it will work well for others, and DON'T "prescribe" it to someone you've never met over the Internet. Just as there are civility rules and endless posts about the importance of "I" statements, shouldn't there be rules regarding the wording of medication posts?
> For example, instead of saying something like, "This tricyclic can be combined with anything including an MAOI and there's no need to worry as long as you start with a low dose of TCA," wouldn't it be safer to say, "This particular combination worked well for me; however, it can pose some dangers if not done carefully, so please discuss it with your doctor." Dr. Bob, you often ask posters to re-phrase their posts in order to make them civil. How about requiring the SELF-appointed prescribers to re-phrase their posts in order to make them safe? Many people say they prefer PB over other mental health boards because it's a "safe place." The Psychobabble definition of safety should be expanded to include safety from very real physical dangers.
>
>
>I will no longer recommend 'X' drug to people or ponder the pros & cons of 'drug A' v 'drug B' with people because it obviously offends some other people greatly.
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by SLS on August 4, 2004, at 7:16:27
In reply to Noted: SELF-appointed prescribers » sb417, posted by Sad Panda on August 4, 2004, at 1:26:58
> I will no longer recommend 'X' drug to people or ponder the pros & cons of 'drug A' v 'drug B' with people because it obviously offends some other people greatly.
I hope you aren't changing your behavior for the sake of a single unhappy visitor. That would represent a great loss to the community. If anyone's comments have provoked you into reevaluating your posture when making recommendations to others, this might be a good thing. Understand that you might not end up doing anything differently from what you had been doing in the past, but perhaps now with more confidence in your position.I posted the following yesterday because I thought it captured very well what my experience has been here at PB over the last 4 years.
"I think each poster decides where to place the fine line he walks. I move mine around from time to time."
Personally, I wouldn't want to see you make dramatic changes in the way you interact here as an immediate reaction to a single complaint. It might be better for everyone if you make little adjustments along the way if you feel they are necessary.
You do good work here.
- Scott
Posted by gardenergirl on August 4, 2004, at 8:05:41
In reply to Re: Noted: SELF-appointed prescribers » Sad Panda, posted by SLS on August 4, 2004, at 7:16:27
I agree with Scott, you do good work, Sad Panda.
And what a great way to describe the Babble experience, Scott. I liked that post when I first saw it.
Take care,
gg
Posted by AuntieMel on August 4, 2004, at 11:24:19
In reply to To: AuntieMel, posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 3, 2004, at 19:07:04
Actually I wasn't just passing by. I'd been lurking for a while and have read through most of the archives. The archives were of huge value for medical info - understanding neurosensors, etc. Later I started posting a little bit at a time, testing the waters.
I got involved in this one as a matter of fairness. I believe a new person - that wasn't familiar with the babble ways - wasn't being treated fairly.
And like a dog with a bone, I can't let go.....
Hopefully I can offer support to others, too.
Posted by AuntieMel on August 4, 2004, at 12:17:08
In reply to To: AuntieMel, posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 3, 2004, at 19:07:04
Well, until now I was enjoying it here. Funny. As one here who has had experience with someone drawing the wrong conclusions here I know what it feels like. I was able to shake it off. Now fires has been block for being confused. No logic.
Thank you for your compliment. But I'm going to be taking a break now.
Posted by KaraS on August 4, 2004, at 18:47:38
In reply to Re: Noted: SELF-appointed prescribers » Sad Panda, posted by SLS on August 4, 2004, at 7:16:27
>
> > I will no longer recommend 'X' drug to people or ponder the pros & cons of 'drug A' v 'drug B' with people because it obviously offends some other people greatly.
>
>
> I hope you aren't changing your behavior for the sake of a single unhappy visitor. That would represent a great loss to the community. If anyone's comments have provoked you into reevaluating your posture when making recommendations to others, this might be a good thing. Understand that you might not end up doing anything differently from what you had been doing in the past, but perhaps now with more confidence in your position.
>
> I posted the following yesterday because I thought it captured very well what my experience has been here at PB over the last 4 years.
>
> "I think each poster decides where to place the fine line he walks. I move mine around from time to time."
>
> Personally, I wouldn't want to see you make dramatic changes in the way you interact here as an immediate reaction to a single complaint. It might be better for everyone if you make little adjustments along the way if you feel they are necessary.
>
> You do good work here.
>
>
> - Scott
>
>
Scott,
You always know the perfect thing to say.
Kara
Posted by terrics on August 5, 2004, at 21:04:14
In reply to All the turmoil here recently, posted by Dr. Bob on July 29, 2004, at 3:46:18
I am waiting patiently for things to clear up. I really like this board, but it is a little shaky right now. Personally I like steady. terrics
This is the end of the thread.
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